Is it time for a rethink?

[Tiger_heart]

Looking back at 2005 (sigh!) the team played a brand of football that made best use of the talent we had - which let's face it, with a few exceptions, wasn't the strongest roster we've ever had. But whatever Sheens did with them, it got us to win a premiership. We won't have the forwards or the backs to be top 4 material UNLESS we work on the off season on building something that is uniquely ours, that is we start to play to whatever our strengths are - if speed, then let' use it; of defense, then let's concentrate on that, but do it in a way that doesn't follow in the traditional format of the game, which, albeit is simple, but has to be underpinned by strengths we simply don't have at present.
All I am saying is that unless we do something that is different, we are bound to repeat what we've done in the last 10 years or more.

No easy answer, I'll grant you that.

 

[Masterton]

I theory, I agree. In practice, I don't think we have anything that stands out.

 

[TigerWest]

I think the worse thing about that time was, we didn’t seem to have a plan to stay up as one of the strong go to clubs.
Lament, lament.

 

[Furious1]

I think the worse thing about that time was, we didn’t seem to have a plan to stay up as one of the strong go to clubs.
Lament, lament.

Yeah the game changed in 06. Fast play the balls out and the wrestle started to appear. Unfortunately we still tried up tempo and small forwards for years to come after that.

 

[diedpretty]

The problem is i don't see Maguire as an innovative coach. He has always liked big mobile forwards and the backs feeding off their go forward. Nothing flashy and unfortunately what the majority of clubs are doing. We need to take a leaf out of Penriths approach - take a gamble on a lot of the young guys we have coming through and add a couple of hard nosed experienced campaigners. That approach probably won't get us in the 8 next year but come 2022 the young guys will have played 20 odd games and add to that the possibilty of signing a couple of high profile players and i think we will see a marked improvement. I just don't see the point in continuing on the path we have for the last 10 years.

 

[TigerWest]

I just don’t think we can continue to be a development club, we need to buy a decent roster and get into the finals first
Then we can plan to be a dynasty

 

[twentyforty]

Sheens “ah huh moment” came when he realised that people will achieve their own goals more vigorously and with greater determination. Rugby league is a team sport, Tigers need to facilitate progress toward the creation of a team. Get rid of those players who refuse to be part of a team and foster the enormous potential in those who do. That would be a starting point in the process which appears to be what Madge is doing.

 

[Tiger5150]

Looking back at 2005 (sigh!) the team played a brand of football that made best use of the talent we had - which let's face it, with a few exceptions, wasn't the strongest roster we've ever had. But whatever Sheens did with them, it got us to win a premiership. We won't have the forwards or the backs to be top 4 material UNLESS we work on the off season on building something that is uniquely ours, that is we start to play to whatever our strengths are - if speed, then let' use it; of defense, then let's concentrate on that, but do it in a way that doesn't follow in the traditional format of the game, which, albeit is simple, but has to be underpinned by strengths we simply don't have at present.
All I am saying is that unless we do something that is different, we are bound to repeat what we've done in the last 10 years or more.

No easy answer, I'll grant you that.

Not a bad thought in theory, but in reality, we have no speed and we have poor defence and nothing else noteworthy.

I also think we may be overthinking what happened in 2005. IMO a large part of 2005 is that all the footy gods aligned for us. You know how every year we look at a team that gets a "rails run" whether it is rule changes, soft draws etc, that was us in 2005, Im not saying that the NRL helped us intentionally but at that moment they implemented rule interpretations designed to "speed up" the game and that happened to fall in our lap. Oh and Benji.

 

[weststigerman]

No. We need a sustainable play style. To become a strong club you need an effective game plan like the Melbournes and the Roosters.

 

[BZN]

The problem is i don't see Maguire as an innovative coach. He has always liked big mobile forwards and the backs feeding off their go forward. Nothing flashy and unfortunately what the majority of clubs are doing. We need to take a leaf out of Penriths approach - take a gamble on a lot of the young guys we have coming through and add a couple of hard nosed experienced campaigners. That approach probably won't get us in the 8 next year but come 2022 the young guys will have played 20 odd games and add to that the possibilty of signing a couple of high profile players and i think we will see a marked improvement. I just don't see the point in continuing on the path we have for the last 10 years.

[/QUOTE]

Re your "I just don't see the point in continuing on the same path we have for the last ten years"...100% correct again.
Four score and seven years ago...oops....sorry....4 plus 1 years ago, a new mob took over the running of an AFL club that was at that time apparently considered by many to be a bit of a joke.
The manager forecast that within 5 years they would win the flag 3 times.
They are in the Grand Final this year for the 3rd year running after winning the previous 2 flags and are favoured to win again tomorrow.
The team...Richmond TIGERS!!!!
I would suggest Wests TIGERS send a delegation down there.... to find out how they achieved such an amazing turn-around.

 

[Alex Seyfarth's #1 Fan]

While I hate hearing how we need to replicate 2005, tbh it wouldn't hurt. We do need to coach to our strengths. Canberra don't even have a controlling half, and they're doing alright. Ricky Stuart coaches the team based on the players, not on an arbitrary, pre-conceived plan.

The keys, in my opinion, are the set moves we execute and where we do them. This season, I noticed that we were excellent when inside the opposition's 30m. People were running the right lines and we were stringing passes together. When inside our own half, everything was one-out. No one running support lines, no set pieces, just relying on the outside backs to get us forward. We need to be more creative in our own half. We don't have the muscle to run one-out sets starting in our own 20m.

Based on the team we have, it should be possible to run set pieces inside our own 20-30m zone. Nofo or BJ can generate a quick play of the ball, then a set piece should immediately be ready.

 

[Tiger5150]

While I hate hearing how we need to replicate 2005, tbh it wouldn't hurt. We do need to coach to our strengths. Canberra don't even have a controlling half, and they're doing alright. Ricky Stuart coaches the team based on the players, not on an arbitrary, pre-conceived plan.

The keys, in my opinion, are the set moves we execute and where we do them. This season, I noticed that we were excellent when inside the opposition's 30m. People were running the right lines and we were stringing passes together. When inside our own half, everything was one-out. No one running support lines, no set pieces, just relying on the outside backs to get us forward. We need to be more creative in our own half. We don't have the muscle to run one-out sets starting in our own 20m.

Based on the team we have, it should be possible to run set pieces inside our own 20-30m zone. Nofo or BJ can generate a quick play of the ball, then a set piece should immediately be ready.

Its a pretty unrealistic expectation to have forwards to be immediately ready for a set piece from a kick return in our own 20-30m. Look at successful clubs method for dealing with this....massive wingers.

 

[JC99]

We tried developing juniors and lost them all. We tried buying players and ruined our cap. We’ve not been smart enough or good enough to be able to do either properly. It now seems like the plan is developing young guys and buying players when our cap opens up, which is the right idea as you need a balance of both I’m just not sure if we will be able to do it properly. We are struggling to sign big name players

We needed a culture reset and that’s what we’re in the process of doing. Madge might not win us a premiership but he’ll clear out majority of the dead wood

 

[twentyforty]

The problem is i don't see Maguire as an innovative coach. He has always liked big mobile forwards and the backs feeding off their go forward. Nothing flashy and unfortunately what the majority of clubs are doing. We need to take a leaf out of Penriths approach - take a gamble on a lot of the young guys we have coming through and add a couple of hard nosed experienced campaigners. That approach probably won't get us in the 8 next year but come 2022 the young guys will have played 20 odd games and add to that the possibilty of signing a couple of high profile players and i think we will see a marked improvement. I just don't see the point in continuing on the path we have for the last 10 years.

Re your "I just don't see the point in continuing on the same path we have for the last ten years"...100% correct again.
Four score and seven years ago...oops....sorry....4 plus 1 years ago, a new mob took over the running of an AFL club that was at that time apparently considered by many to be a bit of a joke.
The manager forecast that within 5 years they would win the flag 3 times.
They are in the Grand Final this year for the 3rd year running after winning the previous 2 flags and are favoured to win again tomorrow.
The team...Richmond TIGERS!!!!
I would suggest Wests TIGERS send a delegation down there.... to find out how they achieved such an amazing turn-around.

Penrith have already been to Richmond Tigers for help.

 

[SeanT]

The first thing we shoukd change is to kicj the ball to the corners and not donthise 50m bombs that do nothing except turn the ball over. Id rather risk a 7 tackle set than those waste of tactics.

 

[Spud_Murphy]

The problem is i don't see Maguire as an innovative coach. He has always liked big mobile forwards and the backs feeding off their go forward. Nothing flashy and unfortunately what the majority of clubs are doing. We need to take a leaf out of Penriths approach - take a gamble on a lot of the young guys we have coming through and add a couple of hard nosed experienced campaigners. That approach probably won't get us in the 8 next year but come 2022 the young guys will have played 20 odd games and add to that the possibilty of signing a couple of high profile players and i think we will see a marked improvement. I just don't see the point in continuing on the path we have for the last 10 years.

Re your "I just don't see the point in continuing on the same path we have for the last ten years"...100% correct again.
Four score and seven years ago...oops....sorry....4 plus 1 years ago, a new mob took over the running of an AFL club that was at that time apparently considered by many to be a bit of a joke.
The manager forecast that within 5 years they would win the flag 3 times.
They are in the Grand Final this year for the 3rd year running after winning the previous 2 flags and are favoured to win again tomorrow.
The team...Richmond TIGERS!!!!
I would suggest Wests TIGERS send a delegation down there.... to find out how they achieved such an amazing turn-around.


Penrith have already been to Richmond Tigers for help.

We need to throw the black cat out of the room and talk tiger to tiger!

 

[Spud_Murphy]

The first thing we shoukd change is to kicj the ball to the corners and not donthise 50m bombs that do nothing except turn the ball over. Id rather risk a 7 tackle set than those waste of tactics.

Until we get a dominant half who can do that sort of kicking we will always struggle.

2005 our spine was Prince & Benji (in his prime), Hodgson at fullback and Farah at dummy half - we have absolutely nothing like that sort of combo in our ranks now. It was a once in a lifetime thing.

 

[Papacito]

Looking back at 2005 (sigh!) the team played a brand of football that made best use of the talent we had - which let's face it, with a few exceptions, wasn't the strongest roster we've ever had. But whatever Sheens did with them, it got us to win a premiership. We won't have the forwards or the backs to be top 4 material UNLESS we work on the off season on building something that is uniquely ours, that is we start to play to whatever our strengths are - if speed, then let' use it; of defense, then let's concentrate on that, but do it in a way that doesn't follow in the traditional format of the game, which, albeit is simple, but has to be underpinned by strengths we simply don't have at present.
All I am saying is that unless we do something that is different, we are bound to repeat what we've done in the last 10 years or more.

No easy answer, I'll grant you that.

Really good observations.

Sheens was most definitely an innovator but also had the benefit of some gun juniors coming through the ranks mixed with some excellent recruits.

We're a bit thin on the ground with both innovation and roster at the moment.

 

[Toowoomba_Tiger]

Good topic. Been pondering this most of the 2nd half of the season. A little worried Madge is stuck in his ways. He has said numerous times he knows how to win premierships as he's done it before. That sounds very one track minded. The game continually evolves.

I could go on forever but I'll just add these two points for now as a bit of a comparison to our Tigers and the 2020 grand finalists.

1. Walking on eggshells. After hearing a lot about the Panthers approach this year and their laid back attitudes I am wondering if Madge is a little too tough on his players. This cost him his job at Souths too. I've also heard Panthers generally don't have a specific game plan, just more about knowing their jobs and their opposition and playing what they see.

2. Studying the opposition. Not sure if its all talk but Madge is always telling his players to worry about their own team and their own roles and totally deflects when asked about the opposition teams. From my understanding Bellamy and the Storm spend more time than any other team watching and analyzing their opposition. They leave no stone un turned. Surely this is a vital part of Madge's job.