Its a player problem

[Telltails]

Lack of talent and too many players being paid too much for being crap. It's not just a problem at our club it's effecting at least half the competition. Clubs are desperate to strengthen their squads and players are happy to take the money and wear what ever colour offers it.

 

[BAGNF05]

Lack of talent and too many players being paid too much for being crap. It's not just a problem at our club it's effecting at least half the competition. Clubs are desperate to strengthen their squads and players are happy to take the money and wear what ever colour offers it.

I couldn’t agree more, you hear figures like 600K thrown around for guys like BJ Leilua and Doueihi when neither were playing elite football when they signed. We should be grabbing as many good young 200K players as we can then using the surplus funds to pay big money to genuine stars. Our roster is totally screwed in my opinion.

 

[TrueTiger]

I was under the impression that Hartigan was the recruitment guru....everybody at the beginning of the season sang his praises for great recruitment...(.you know..well done Hartigan they were singing)
Now its all Madges fault we are a rabble...yes he has his faults,but so do Pascoe,Hartigan,the assistance and the whole bloody club in general..

 

[BAGNF05]

I was under the impression that Hartigan was the recruitment guru....everybody at the beginning of the season sang his praises for great recruitment...(.you know..well done Hartigan they were singing)
Now its all Madges fault we are a rabble...yes he has his faults,but so do Pascoe,Hartigan,the assistance and the whole bloody club in general..

If Sheens turns this around he should be made an immortal, something is incredibly toxic in the joint.

 

[twentyforty]

There is definitely something that is turning the players off, quelling their enthusiasm for defending each other’s mistakes? Maybe they just don’t like each other? Maybe they’re not happy that half the team are not NRL quality which keeps them under the pump in games? They still look the same as they did start of season in terms of team cohesion. I thought they were on the improve with their teamwork , but the last 2 games showed disinterest from a few players down on themselves and each other.
What does Madge do?
He needs to have some counselling sessions, both individual and group, see what turns up? This is not chair kicking time, he did the right thing to leave the players at halftime. If the players are honestly critical of each other’s performance, as eluded to by Tamau, then Madge has something to work with. If Madge feels he can’t do it, for whatever reason, then get someone else to, but it must be done in order to get solid commitment from the players.

 

[TigerTownSFS]

Madge has to go. This roster is mostly his and I don’t see the young players improving. If anything I thing they are starting to go backwards (Laurie). It’s not a terrible roster and the cap is in really good shape but we need to give another coach a shot at getting more out of this group. Madge is done

 

[NT_Tiger]

My only contribution follows the 'attitude' and 'leadership' lines.

Comments about Seyfarth talking it up last night demonstrate that someone (anyone) with a winning attitude can exhibit leadership qualities. In my opinion, that is the kind of leadership we need, just players that care about the result. Players that can contribute positively when things aren't going to plan.

WT's problem is, there aren't enough of these players in the squad.

We are recruiting players that can do a job well enough in their position while everything is going OK but lose their heads as soon as momentum swings against us. They are not bad players, and many could be picked up by a top 4 team and excel in their position because they are surrounded by leaders. As many have commented, if XYZ player went to the storm (for example) their game would improve.

I think the reasoning behind Tamou's recruitment was correct, but we need that right across the park. Again, I think allowing Cory Thompson to move on was a mistake. We need to get to a situation where if someone knocks on, they don't drop their head but work to make up for it. Not only that, but rest of the team is confident that that player will account for their mistake, so there are no passengers and no need for finger pointing.

If we have reached a point where there is alot of finger pointing within the ranks, we are in trouble. This is the point where the players with the winning attitude begin to look around and think about going to a squad where the winning attitude is the culture.

I really don't buy into the 'we need a marquee signing' argument at all. We need to sign attitude full stop.

 

[rustycage]

4 tries down our right side defence early last night were not the middles fault. Noffa, JTJ and Luciano were as bad as anything I've seen defensively.

 

[glebe tiger]

It's a player, club and coaching problem. Combination of all three.

 

[DGilly]

4 tries down our right side defence early last night were not the middles fault. Noffa, JTJ and Luciano were as bad as anything I've seen defensively.

This is what I'm saying. All those guys give up the second the going gets tough - you'd never see that from a Roosters or Storm edge

 

[innsaneink]

It isn't a board problem, a Madge problem or anything like that - it's a player problem. Our team is filled with and for numerous years has been filled with lazy, undisciplined, mentally weak, poor character, inconsistent players. Its a player problem through and through.

How anyone could think a renowned idiot like TPJ who has some of the worst intangibles in the game would make this pack of lazy and pathetic players any better is beyond me.

We need players with character like Finucane, who always put in, prepare properly and do the basics every play - you know like actually stand at marker.

I'm so sick of it. Call a spade a spade. The reality is that a good 50% of player who have worn the WT jersey over the last 10 years are mentally weak, lazy, stupid and poorly diciplined.

You better believe I would have said a lot more if it was allowed

Not entirely disagreeing.... But coaches, coaching staff, players CEOs GMs come and go in that time.
Every off season we recruit new players, every year the new team lists are itemised... Every year is gunna be the year... But it's not

Despite the fact the people change... The culture remains the same

 

[Telltails]

No KPIs in their contracts. They can play like rubbish and still get paid or moved on to another club who are willing to take up their contract. They all know the coach will wear the results.
The best coaches/teams have the best players and unfortunately for us there are not enough to go round.
The rumblings of a player revolt at Brisbane against Walters after also bombing under Siebold - a club that have always had a great culture and a wealth of quality players - now rubbish squad bar a couple and the players stirring - that's what happens when players are allowed to shift blame.

 

[Krammy]

TPJ

Cast your mind back over the last 10 years. Almost every player who has left the club has progressed, and every named player who has come to the club has regressed.

Yes - and that has to say something about both management and coaching. I'm not happy with the players, but if the above statement is true, it is much more than lazy players. Why do these same players find energy and enthusiasm again when they join a different club? Why do players regress when they come here?

 

[BalmainJnr]

If nothing else the puff piece articles with quotes from the players should be good this week.

 

[twentyforty]

It isn't a board problem, a Madge problem or anything like that - it's a player problem. Our team is filled with and for numerous years has been filled with lazy, undisciplined, mentally weak, poor character, inconsistent players. Its a player problem through and through.

How anyone could think a renowned idiot like TPJ who has some of the worst intangibles in the game would make this pack of lazy and pathetic players any better is beyond me.

We need players with character like Finucane, who always put in, prepare properly and do the basics every play - you know like actually stand at marker.

I'm so sick of it. Call a spade a spade. The reality is that a good 50% of player who have worn the WT jersey over the last 10 years are mentally weak, lazy, stupid and poorly diciplined.

You better believe I would have said a lot more if it was allowed

Not entirely disagreeing.... But coaches, coaching staff, players CEOs GMs come and go in that time.
Every off season we recruit new players, every year the new team lists are itemised... Every year is gunna be the year... But it's not

Despite the fact the people change... The culture remains the same

Absolutely spot on Ink!!
The on field results are only a symptom. I’ve seen much larger organisations, change their culture in a positive way, much quicker. I thought PVL’s idea of WT sharing a Liverpool stadium with the Bulldogs was an admission of zero confidence in WT ability to survive and thrive, even considering the positive noises during the last 2 years.

 

[Tcat]

As fans we don't really know what is going on within the club and why we are what we are. The "soft underbelly" tag seems to fit, and just when we think we are on the right path we come to the extremely disappointing realisation that we are nowhere near it and the light at the end of the tunnel isn't getting brighter.

So what does this mean for recruitment and retention? Why would any quality player want to come to the WTs? Apart from being offered way more $$ than they could get elsewhere, which begs the question, is a player who is only interested in the most money really the type you want?
Then another question is, why would any star junior player stay at the WTs if he is offered a chance to go to a winning club with a quality roster. The sad fact from the past is that good players don't come to us and become stars, the good ones leave us and become stars elsewhere.

Maybe this is why we have enlisted Sheens - maybe we realise the only way we will find success is to build it from the youngsters up. Bring them on together through the grades (just like the Panthers), hang on to as many as we can, hopefully while they win together in the lower grades they will want to stay together.

Like many have said , the culture at our club is so low its really hard to know how to change it. Not exactly sure what Sheens will be overseeing, but we really need some external consultants to be brought in that specialise in this sort thing. Businesses do it all the time. I'm struggling to know how to get around this issue. I agree with you, we need to build and change this culture from the youngsters coming in and enforce this with a strong and united leadership group. Not old bastards looking for a retirement plan. I think Mbye and Brooks need to be the first to go (things just aren't working and we won't move forward with two playing halves for us) and then pick through the rest and weed out the players that won't take us forward. As much as I want to punch Gutho in the head, we need an active player like that in our team that won't be bullied by the lazy culture and will call these players out openly. Tamou to me seems to be seems to be a brown nose for Madge and just says the usual old school leadership quotes but without the action. Tamou is experienced but i haven't seem him do anything in a leadership capacity that has made the team any better.

 

[Tiger_Bond]

Has anybody noticed that Wests Tigers has gotten worse as soon as Wests Ashfield has assumed full control of the club or is it a coincidence

 

[matchball]

Has anybody noticed that Wests Tigers has gotten worse as soon as Wests Ashfield has assumed full control of the club or is it a coincidence

I think it went south as soon as Lee got into the fold.
Darkwing duck is who he reminds me of.

 

[2005magic]

Has anybody noticed that Wests Tigers has gotten worse as soon as Wests Ashfield has assumed full control of the club or is it a coincidence

Why dont Wests Ashfield bow out and leave it to Balmain Leagues?............. oh thats right. Please bear that in mind.

Whats the other option-Balmain Leagues gone bye bye, Campbelltown Wests not involved. Do we just fold / relocate? How will WA be recompensed for their investment? Benny Elias and his cabal of 'ínvestors?' Alternately could WA subsume the defunct Balmain and approach the NRL to become the Magpies again and relocate? None of these scenarios are good. We are the Wests Tigers now and we should at least be greatful the WA board have kept things running. We might not like all the results and yes, we need some hard decisions made rather than just keep treading water but I dont trust NRL HQ to act n our interest- I trust WA more.