Its not all about the players

[mike]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

I agree, but Madge isn't getting it done. He needs more support to be brought in.

The more the merrier but it needs to be people Madge can work with like Gardiner. Who is available?

Its past worry about what Madge would prefer, it is time to bring in an assistant that can work with modern players and is able to gameplan for the modern game. I would be willing to take on Morris as an assistant.

That’s a sure way to ensure failure.

Mate he is not working and players are rejecting the place because he is coach.

I don’t believe that. A workable solution could be to promote Gardiner as an assistant NRL coach and get someone else for KOEC.

How can you not believe that?

Stop listening to the media

I am not listening to the media

Sometimes you need to blow cultures up and break them so they can be re-built in the right image. I believe that’s where we are at.

 

[Telltails]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

I agree, but Madge isn't getting it done. He needs more support to be brought in.

The more the merrier but it needs to be people Madge can work with like Gardiner. Who is available?

Its past worry about what Madge would prefer, it is time to bring in an assistant that can work with modern players and is able to gameplan for the modern game. I would be willing to take on Morris as an assistant.

That’s a sure way to ensure failure.

Mate he is not working and players are rejecting the place because he is coach.

That sounds like inside info - or your opinion. Just interested because that's a big call and I would be interested to know which players we made an offer to specifically rejected the club due to Maguire.

 

[cochise]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

I agree, but Madge isn't getting it done. He needs more support to be brought in.

The more the merrier but it needs to be people Madge can work with like Gardiner. Who is available?

Its past worry about what Madge would prefer, it is time to bring in an assistant that can work with modern players and is able to gameplan for the modern game. I would be willing to take on Morris as an assistant.

That’s a sure way to ensure failure.

Mate he is not working and players are rejecting the place because he is coach.

I don’t believe that. A workable solution could be to promote Gardiner as an assistant NRL coach and get someone else for KOEC.

How can you not believe that?

Stop listening to the media

I am not listening to the media

Sometimes you need to blow cultures up and break them so they can be re-built in the right image. I believe that’s where we are at.

I agree with that, but you are right we need to improve the squad but Madge isn't going to be able to attract the players we need to improve. The only way to do that with madge here is through a youth policy.

 

[mike]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

I agree, but Madge isn't getting it done. He needs more support to be brought in.

The more the merrier but it needs to be people Madge can work with like Gardiner. Who is available?

Its past worry about what Madge would prefer, it is time to bring in an assistant that can work with modern players and is able to gameplan for the modern game. I would be willing to take on Morris as an assistant.

That’s a sure way to ensure failure.

Mate he is not working and players are rejecting the place because he is coach.

I don’t believe that. A workable solution could be to promote Gardiner as an assistant NRL coach and get someone else for KOEC.

How can you not believe that?

Stop listening to the media

I am not listening to the media

Sometimes you need to blow cultures up and break them so they can be re-built in the right image. I believe that’s where we are at.

I agree with that, but you are right we need to improve the squad but Madge isn't going to be able to attract the players we need to improve. The only way to do that with madge here is through a youth policy.

Not a bad policy though. Do it right and it ensures a bright future for years to come.

 

[cochise]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

I agree, but Madge isn't getting it done. He needs more support to be brought in.

The more the merrier but it needs to be people Madge can work with like Gardiner. Who is available?

Its past worry about what Madge would prefer, it is time to bring in an assistant that can work with modern players and is able to gameplan for the modern game. I would be willing to take on Morris as an assistant.

That’s a sure way to ensure failure.

Mate he is not working and players are rejecting the place because he is coach.

That sounds like inside info - or your opinion. Just interested because that's a big call and I would be interested to know which players we made an offer to specifically rejected the club due to Maguire.

It is 100% true, the big name players don't want to play under him. I'm actually ok with that and like the way we have gone about our recruitment, but you can't say he doesn't have the squad to be competitive when part of the reason we don't have that squad is that he is the coach.

 

[GCfan]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

I agree, but Madge isn't getting it done. He needs more support to be brought in.

The more the merrier but it needs to be people Madge can work with like Gardiner. Who is available?

Its past worry about what Madge would prefer, it is time to bring in an assistant that can work with modern players and is able to gameplan for the modern game. I would be willing to take on Morris as an assistant.

I agree with the thought above it’s past what Madge wants relative to assistants. I would have thought that the GM of Football has a say, or at least influence in regards to coaching structure and could make it happen. Well I hope that’s the case anyway

I think that is the case, I don't know officially but believe Hartigan is above Madge.

I understand all of the calls to change from Madge for the various reasons listed but perhaps Hartigan starting to performance manage the Head coach and by providing better support via specialist assistant coaches is worth trying first. Bear in mind we’re trying to harden this team up and another sacked coach reinforces our historical issue of being soft as and blaming others for our not wanting to put in consistently. Maybe it’s not part of the GM of Footballs role but Madge reports to someone.

 

[Lauren]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

Another calming and sensible post :+1: @Lauren in the middle of a lot of hot air from some posters.

Thanks @MAGPIES1963 and don't get me wrong I share similar frustrations but am merely pointing out that when players are failing in their roles, the coach also has a formal duty to help manage this and their preparation.
I know they're(the players) ultimately responsible for game outcomes but he has direct control in addressing our performance problems too.
Hence its why I used Payten as an example, as he had little leeway to the construction of the team but has applied technical and tactical strategies which seem to benefit their overall functionality.

 

[tigertuff]

I want Madge to do well. I have supported him from day one and thought he is the coach to turn this club around but the facts are the players are not improving individually or as a team. Young kids coached well improve each game they play but our young guys dont seem to have that development. Tommy Talau is a good example of this. The same mistakes are made from the same individuals every week and they continue to get picked. How you can justify picking bj every week is beyond me. He is a blight on our team and club but Madge Keeps picking him. Even if he drops him to Reggie’s he is blocking the development of one of our future kids. His brother should be on the bench at best also. Defensively he is shocking. Fancy getting rid of mimorovski and keeping bj and the jet. That is on Madge’s watch. I hope he proves me wrong but I doubt it.

 

[cochise]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

I agree, but Madge isn't getting it done. He needs more support to be brought in.

The more the merrier but it needs to be people Madge can work with like Gardiner. Who is available?

Its past worry about what Madge would prefer, it is time to bring in an assistant that can work with modern players and is able to gameplan for the modern game. I would be willing to take on Morris as an assistant.

I agree with the thought above it’s past what Madge wants relative to assistants. I would have thought that the GM of Football has a say, or at least influence in regards to coaching structure and could make it happen. Well I hope that’s the case anyway

I think that is the case, I don't know officially but believe Hartigan is above Madge.

I understand all of the calls to change from Madge for the various reasons listed but perhaps Hartigan starting to performance manage the Head coach and by providing better support via specialist assistant coaches is worth trying first. Bear in mind we’re trying to harden this team up and another sacked coach reinforces our historical issue of being soft as and blaming others for our not wanting to put in consistently. Maybe it’s not part of the GM of Footballs role but Madge reports to someone.

That is pretty much what I would like to see but wouldn't use the word performance manage lol

 

[cochise]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

I agree, but Madge isn't getting it done. He needs more support to be brought in.

The more the merrier but it needs to be people Madge can work with like Gardiner. Who is available?

Its past worry about what Madge would prefer, it is time to bring in an assistant that can work with modern players and is able to gameplan for the modern game. I would be willing to take on Morris as an assistant.

That’s a sure way to ensure failure.

Mate he is not working and players are rejecting the place because he is coach.

I don’t believe that. A workable solution could be to promote Gardiner as an assistant NRL coach and get someone else for KOEC.

How can you not believe that?

Stop listening to the media

I am not listening to the media

Sometimes you need to blow cultures up and break them so they can be re-built in the right image. I believe that’s where we are at.

I agree with that, but you are right we need to improve the squad but Madge isn't going to be able to attract the players we need to improve. The only way to do that with madge here is through a youth policy.

Not a bad policy though. Do it right and it ensures a bright future for years to come.

Yeah mate agree, I actually like our recruitment, but its hard to say the lack of success is because of the squad when the coach is part of the reason we missed better players.

 

[Lauren]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

But the coach is responsible for building the team's performance culture and this often lost or unacknowledged.
Making incessant excuses about our organisational management doesn't cut it any more as it's only our onfield performances which are poor.

 

[mike]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

But the coach is responsible for building the team's performance culture and this often lost or unacknowledged.
Making incessant excuses about our organisational management doesn't cut it any more as it's only our onfield performances which are poor.

He is if you give him the security to do so. If you sack the coach every two years the players can always be poor because they know they will never get the blame, the coach will.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

I agree, but Madge isn't getting it done. He needs more support to be brought in.

The more the merrier but it needs to be people Madge can work with like Gardiner. Who is available?

Maguire doesn't strike me as the type to conciliate with other coaches. Best to send him to special projects.

 

[Telltails]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

I agree, but Madge isn't getting it done. He needs more support to be brought in.

The more the merrier but it needs to be people Madge can work with like Gardiner. Who is available?

Its past worry about what Madge would prefer, it is time to bring in an assistant that can work with modern players and is able to gameplan for the modern game. I would be willing to take on Morris as an assistant.

That’s a sure way to ensure failure.

Mate he is not working and players are rejecting the place because he is coach.

That sounds like inside info - or your opinion. Just interested because that's a big call and I would be interested to know which players we made an offer to specifically rejected the club due to Maguire.

It is 100% true, the big name players don't want to play under him. I'm actually ok with that and like the way we have gone about our recruitment, but you can't say he doesn't have the squad to be competitive when part of the reason we don't have that squad is that he is the coach.

With due respect that is a sweeping statement. Unless you make an offer to every big name player which I'm pretty sure we havnt, not sure how you can confidently say that they are not coming specifically cause of Maguire. You could equally suggest we have no players that those players want to play with in the current crop.
Our club has a history of not signing big name players long before Maguire, not sure you can confidently lay that all on him. What big name players would look at our club as a way to advance their career given its recent history? John Morris as coach in our current position is hardly the answer for attracting big name players either I would think.
But hey the dogs are barking and he is likely the fall guy.

 

[cochise]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

I agree, but Madge isn't getting it done. He needs more support to be brought in.

The more the merrier but it needs to be people Madge can work with like Gardiner. Who is available?

Its past worry about what Madge would prefer, it is time to bring in an assistant that can work with modern players and is able to gameplan for the modern game. I would be willing to take on Morris as an assistant.

That’s a sure way to ensure failure.

Mate he is not working and players are rejecting the place because he is coach.

That sounds like inside info - or your opinion. Just interested because that's a big call and I would be interested to know which players we made an offer to specifically rejected the club due to Maguire.

It is 100% true, the big name players don't want to play under him. I'm actually ok with that and like the way we have gone about our recruitment, but you can't say he doesn't have the squad to be competitive when part of the reason we don't have that squad is that he is the coach.

With due respect that is a sweeping statement. Unless you make an offer to every big name player which I'm pretty sure we havnt, not sure how you can confidently say that they are not coming specifically cause of Maguire. You could equally suggest we have no players that those players want to play with in the current crop.
Our club has a history of not signing big name players long before Maguire, not sure you can confidently lay that all on him. What big name players would look at our club as a way to advance their career given its recent history? John Morris as coach in our current position is hardly the answer for attracting big name players either I would think.
But hey the dogs are barking and he is likely the fall guy.

I'm not talking about every big name players, I'm talking about the big names we targeted.

 

[Lauren]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

Lol and another post subtly attacks the coach

Scramble sucks aside the few you’ve said and we’ve got no pace... sure, the cowboys are doing great struggling against knights ! I’d suggest you go and rewatch the game to see that our plan in attack was definitely evident and struggled as the game went on with opposition more easily repelling us.

The above becomes a massive concern for our team who’ve always liked to throw in the towel and show a distinct lack of desire (individually) to get back into grinding games and stay in touch.

When we fatigue in attack and the middle eventually starts to collapse - as it should... the edges become so flimsy it wouldn’t have mattered if we scored twice on both sin bins and then took a penalty for good measure. We were always going to cough it up on the back of this and is a terrible look and standard for the younger guys to get used to, Nof racing up and in after SO many years and Talau now clearly doing his best impressions of Joey and Mbye’s time here, most weeks.

It’s a failure right across the board actually and in no way/shape or form to do with a game plan - not on Friday night and rarely ever against the Warriors. A disgraceful performance, Lauren.

I actually don't wish to see another coach be moved on, but he is accountable for fixing the team's performance issues and there's nothing concrete to suggest he's rectifying them at all - we've only shown we usually move away from what's working for us with making unnecessary team changes. Aside from some individual players showing some improvements it isn't translating at a collective level.
We haven't exactly been setting the bar too high but if someone is failing to live up to or work on the poor or inconsistent standards they've shown throughout the year, this now possibly becomes more a team selection or coaching problem.

Turning it into a historical argument (Madge's winning strike rate or the club's poor patterns of behaviors) does little to address the team's current shortcomings. The board or Hartigan aren't responsible for overturning this.


So you purport to knowing what his KPI’s are/whether he’s succeeding or failing... I’d say from the straw man position you’re taking like most that you would like more insight and to see the results turning around on field. Like all of us.

Posts like your first demonstrably set us back when people accept or state that it has to do with coaching records or game plans when we lack the x-factor as well as the insidious culture problems stemming right from the top.

Not something you contemplate if it comes down to one performance (or many) which shows the same weaknesses. Good and well for you to say we should stick with him now after your posts state almost the opposite and that he isn’t having success.

These aren’t theories but rather facts, need more stars. Which coach btw, do you think would turn around the obvious attitude problem ? How does he plan to force Nof to hold his wing - even when outnumbered

Better yet - you don’t think our coach has already tried. It’s these individual people that are further promoting ingrained ideas. Lee H, for example is the reason for his absurd new contract freshly inked. Not coach... how do you blame him for an issue present throughout a blokes whole league career ?

So, who do we replace him with because I’m not offering up any excuses for the performance yet can’t see how BJ’s career self-imploding is on Madge; or anyone else. It’s a very one-sided view to take and is not a fair defence of the one I took issue with. Unsure of where you or myself, in these comments, is using his record as justification for/against him staying but we need the stability.

Hope for our sakes we continue making smarter recruitment choices! It’s not about the coach

No I'm specifically talking about Madge having the team capable of playing to their strengths. My original post was clear enough to suggest this and said nothing about sacking him.
So please stop deflecting.
If we're not winning because we constantly have someone in the team who shouldn't be there - killing all our chances, that is ineffective with team selections.
Or if we are unable to play a distinctive style suited to the game, that is also symptomatic of ineffective game planning.
So instead of getting all wound up and turning it into some long winded argument because you disagree, please don't as it's stupid.
You know very well what I've said. Who else is responsible for the two issues I've pointed out if not Madge?

 

[mike]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

Lol and another post subtly attacks the coach

Scramble sucks aside the few you’ve said and we’ve got no pace... sure, the cowboys are doing great struggling against knights ! I’d suggest you go and rewatch the game to see that our plan in attack was definitely evident and struggled as the game went on with opposition more easily repelling us.

The above becomes a massive concern for our team who’ve always liked to throw in the towel and show a distinct lack of desire (individually) to get back into grinding games and stay in touch.

When we fatigue in attack and the middle eventually starts to collapse - as it should... the edges become so flimsy it wouldn’t have mattered if we scored twice on both sin bins and then took a penalty for good measure. We were always going to cough it up on the back of this and is a terrible look and standard for the younger guys to get used to, Nof racing up and in after SO many years and Talau now clearly doing his best impressions of Joey and Mbye’s time here, most weeks.

It’s a failure right across the board actually and in no way/shape or form to do with a game plan - not on Friday night and rarely ever against the Warriors. A disgraceful performance, Lauren.

I actually don't wish to see another coach be moved on, but he is accountable for fixing the team's performance issues and there's nothing concrete to suggest he's rectifying them at all - we've only shown we usually move away from what's working for us with making unnecessary team changes. Aside from some individual players showing some improvements it isn't translating at a collective level.
We haven't exactly been setting the bar too high but if someone is failing to live up to or work on the poor or inconsistent standards they've shown throughout the year, this now possibly becomes more a team selection or coaching problem.

Turning it into a historical argument (Madge's winning strike rate or the club's poor patterns of behaviors) does little to address the team's current shortcomings. The board or Hartigan aren't responsible for overturning this.


So you purport to knowing what his KPI’s are/whether he’s succeeding or failing... I’d say from the straw man position you’re taking like most that you would like more insight and to see the results turning around on field. Like all of us.

Posts like your first demonstrably set us back when people accept or state that it has to do with coaching records or game plans when we lack the x-factor as well as the insidious culture problems stemming right from the top.

Not something you contemplate if it comes down to one performance (or many) which shows the same weaknesses. Good and well for you to say we should stick with him now after your posts state almost the opposite and that he isn’t having success.

These aren’t theories but rather facts, need more stars. Which coach btw, do you think would turn around the obvious attitude problem ? How does he plan to force Nof to hold his wing - even when outnumbered

Better yet - you don’t think our coach has already tried. It’s these individual people that are further promoting ingrained ideas. Lee H, for example is the reason for his absurd new contract freshly inked. Not coach... how do you blame him for an issue present throughout a blokes whole league career ?

So, who do we replace him with because I’m not offering up any excuses for the performance yet can’t see how BJ’s career self-imploding is on Madge; or anyone else. It’s a very one-sided view to take and is not a fair defence of the one I took issue with. Unsure of where you or myself, in these comments, is using his record as justification for/against him staying but we need the stability.

Hope for our sakes we continue making smarter recruitment choices! It’s not about the coach

No I'm specifically talking about Madge having the team capable of playing to their strengths. My original post was clear enough to suggest this and said nothing about sacking him.
So please stop deflecting.
If we're not winning because we constantly have someone in the team who shouldn't be there - killing all our chances, that is ineffective with team selections.
Or if we are unable to play a distinctive style suited to the game, that is also symptomatic of ineffective game planning.
So instead of getting all wound up and turning it into some long winded argument because you disagree, please don't as it's stupid.
Who else is responsible for the two issues I've pointed out if not Madge?

It’s absolutely the culture which Madge is trying to fix. It’s not stupid, that’s what the actual underlying problem is.

 

[Lauren]

Cant seem to respond but surely you can read that I meant its stupid to get into it over someone not sharing your opinion. @mike

 

[mike]

Cant seem to respond but surely you can read that I meant its stupid to get into it over someone not sharing your opinion. @mike

What you don’t seem to understand is the reason they won’t play to their strengths is because they don’t have to. That is what has been happening for the past 10 years. They can just go through the motions and get paid.

 

[avocadoontoast]

Cant seem to respond but surely you can read that I meant its stupid to get into it over someone not sharing your opinion. @mike

What you don’t seem to understand is the reason they won’t play to their strengths is because they don’t have to. That is what has been happening for the past 10 years. They can just go through the motions and get paid.

Why are you so condescending to people that don’t share your view? What Lauren said was perfectly reasonable.