Ivan Cleary - THREAD..

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Manly looking at sheens. Maybe I’m a sucker for punishment but a refreshed sheens could be good. He could always recruit and had some good tilts. If Somethings out of his control (Dwyer, tui the tank, ellis) had gone differently- who knows

Sheens was not good at recruitment even after we won in 2005.Do the names O'Hara Morris Harris Anasta Cayless Lolesi and Blair mean nothing.Yes we got Ellis here while Sheens was coach but Buckets O'Neill got him here.
For every decent signing we had when Tim was here we had a plethora of duds,dont even get me started on his team selections he would still be playing midgets in the front row.
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Thanks, saves me having to say it.
 
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Manly looking at sheens. Maybe I’m a sucker for punishment but a refreshed sheens could be good. He could always recruit and had some good tilts. If Somethings out of his control (Dwyer, tui the tank, ellis) had gone differently- who knows
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Haha, seriously?
 
Prince, sattler, payten, elford, whatuira, hodgson and on and on

For every plodder there was a good solid player.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wests_Tigers_players
 
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Think he will stay and do the job of rebuilding. I don't give a rat's whether he stays beyond contract end. Perhaps it's then better he move on and WT can then get a coach that makes better use of bench and is able to motivate the players for the crucial big games- whether they be against stronger or weaker placed teams. Yes, the players are responsible for stupid penalties and dropping the ball, but where was the coach calming influence to settle them. Also I'd like to see him ripping into referees some time. **I dint care about the fine**, I think the players and fans would like to see some passion and fire at times.

I'm sure you don't - but then again it's not coming out of your pocket. :slight_smile:

You cant tell me in all honesty the clubs dont pay the fine for the coach in most instances…...........
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I don't care what other clubs do. However:-

In all seriousness - do you honestly think if Cleary was fined $10,000 that Wests Tigers would pay it?

Dreaming.
 
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What a bizarre set of posts you have produced on this subject FG !

What does your sentence in bold actually mean ? I can tell you that it doesn't matter what you heard Ivan say (or thought you heard Ivan say) his written statement to the press is reproduced on the WT site in full for all to see.

I have quoted his exact words to you in several posts (which I have copied and pasted from the WT site) and in each case you have avoided replying.

https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2018/08/11/ivan-cleary-statement/

You want to "challenge" others on their "no offer" comments when Ivan literally said "I have not received any offer from the Panthers…..".

So it's time for you to put or shut up. Tell us exactly what Ivan said that challenges the "no offer" comments.

I have addressed it since my first post and directly to you for that matter and unlike yourself, have not stated anything other than those words.

Received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received.

Got it?

I am ready to put my $100 up, are you prepared to counter? Suggest that it would be easy for us to send via the Forum Supporter icon if Kul would be happy to hold it until we know the result. If you have another reasonable option for the monies, feel free to suggest so and if not, shoosh.

FG - you have lost me completely. What are you talking about ?

I have asked you two direct questions in my post above and all you do is obfuscate.

I engaged in this conversation with you in good faith, but I see I am wasting my time.

Over and out.

Fibro, I believe fg is implying that Ivan's statement leaves room for plausible deniability through omission. By using the word received he obfuscates the possibility that he has agreed to return to coach at Penrith, though no formal offer was made.
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Many thanks for stating the position so clearly NT. I think one of the reasons FG has failed to articulate his position clearly is that when it is articulated, it appears nonsensical.

You refer to "the possibility that he has agreed to return to coach at Penrith, though no formal offer was made."

Ivan actually didn't say "formal" offer, he said "I have not received any offer….."

To "receive" an offer means it is made either orally or in writing.

What I was hoping FG would explain is how Ivan could possibly accept an offer that he had not received.

It is fundamental that any contract requires an offer and acceptance. If you have not received an offer you can't have either a contract or an understanding.

In any event, if Ivan had accepted a coaching position with Penrith, why would he tie himself up in semantic knots like this. It doesn't make sense. He would have simply delivered an Anthony Seibold type statement and said "I have a contract with the Tigers until 2020". End of story.

If Ivan has agreed to go to the Panthers he has already said too much.
 
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Manly looking at sheens. Maybe I’m a sucker for punishment but a refreshed sheens could be good. He could always recruit and had some good tilts. If Somethings out of his control (Dwyer, tui the tank, ellis) had gone differently- who knows

Sheens was not good at recruitment even after we won in 2005.Do the names O'Hara Morris Harris Anasta Cayless Lolesi and Blair mean nothing.Yes we got Ellis here while Sheens was coach but Buckets O'Neill got him here.
For every decent signing we had when Tim was here we had a plethora of duds,dont even get me started on his team selections he would still be playing midgets in the front row.
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What I would say is that Sheens was always an innovator, like Des Hasler in many ways. Some of what he came up with was revolutionary, obviously culminating in the attack-driven 2005 premiership, but not necessarily resulting in sustainable success.

Sheens obviously coached a few good sides to good results, also having mediocre results at other locations.

I think he did a lot for Tigers, despite the knockers, and certainly whilst he was at the helm we didn't have the "basketcase" nonsense of the boards and CEOs, because Sheens was very capable of holding the club together. But also he had his time and I think we all agreed we needed a change.
 
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Manly looking at sheens. Maybe I’m a sucker for punishment but a refreshed sheens could be good. He could always recruit and had some good tilts. If Somethings out of his control (Dwyer, tui the tank, ellis) had gone differently- who knows

Sheens was not good at recruitment even after we won in 2005.Do the names O'Hara Morris Harris Anasta Cayless Lolesi and Blair mean nothing.Yes we got Ellis here while Sheens was coach but Buckets O'Neill got him here.
For every decent signing we had when Tim was here we had a plethora of duds,dont even get me started on his team selections he would still be playing midgets in the front row.

What I would say is that Sheens was always an innovator, like Des Hasler in many ways. Some of what he came up with was revolutionary, obviously culminating in the attack-driven 2005 premiership, but not necessarily resulting in sustainable success.

Sheens obviously coached a few good sides to good results, also having mediocre results at other locations.

I think he did a lot for Tigers, despite the knockers, and certainly whilst he was at the helm we didn't have the "basketcase" nonsense of the boards and CEOs, because Sheens was very capable of holding the club together. But also he had his time and I think we all agreed we needed a change.
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I am not trying to belittle what Sheens gave to the club but he was here for too long and got stale. If he had left 5 years earlier he would have left having done a great job.It was Sheens and a succession of poor CEOs starting with Noyce who started with backended contracts putting us into a hole
 
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I have addressed it since my first post and directly to you for that matter and unlike yourself, have not stated anything other than those words.

Received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received.

Got it?

I am ready to put my $100 up, are you prepared to counter? Suggest that it would be easy for us to send via the Forum Supporter icon if Kul would be happy to hold it until we know the result. If you have another reasonable option for the monies, feel free to suggest so and if not, shoosh.

FG - you have lost me completely. What are you talking about ?

I have asked you two direct questions in my post above and all you do is obfuscate.

I engaged in this conversation with you in good faith, but I see I am wasting my time.

Over and out.

Fibro, I believe fg is implying that Ivan's statement leaves room for plausible deniability through omission. By using the word received he obfuscates the possibility that he has agreed to return to coach at Penrith, though no formal offer was made.

Many thanks for stating the position so clearly NT. I think one of the reasons FG has failed to articulate his position clearly is that when it is articulated, it appears nonsensical.

You refer to "the possibility that he has agreed to return to coach at Penrith, though no formal offer was made."

Ivan actually didn't say "formal" offer, he said "I have not received any offer….."

To "receive" an offer means it is made either orally or in writing.

What I was hoping FG would explain is how Ivan could possibly accept an offer that he had not received.

It is fundamental that any contract requires an offer and acceptance. If you have not received an offer you can't have either a contract or an understanding.

In any event, if Ivan had accepted a coaching position with Penrith, why would he tie himself up in semantic knots like this. It doesn't make sense. He would have simply delivered an Anthony Seibold type statement and said "I have a contract with the Tigers until 2020". End of story.

If Ivan has agreed to go to the Panthers he has already said too much.
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If your having a bet why doesn’t the loser donate 50 bucks to the website?
 
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I have addressed it since my first post and directly to you for that matter and unlike yourself, have not stated anything other than those words.

Received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received, received.

Got it?

I am ready to put my $100 up, are you prepared to counter? Suggest that it would be easy for us to send via the Forum Supporter icon if Kul would be happy to hold it until we know the result. If you have another reasonable option for the monies, feel free to suggest so and if not, shoosh.

FG - you have lost me completely. What are you talking about ?

I have asked you two direct questions in my post above and all you do is obfuscate.

I engaged in this conversation with you in good faith, but I see I am wasting my time.

Over and out.

Agreed to - but not yet recieved?

Good to see somebody is home when the lights are on.
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Wow this got interesting..how much did Ivan agree to,yet not recieved..

Gus is a shifty bugger..i would want it in writting if it was me…
 
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Sheens has won comps. And Cleary has won 🤔?????

I’m hearing crickets guys
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Oh! well in that case - let's dig up Jack Gibson he has won more comps than Sheens.

IMO - Cleary is the better coach - Sheens should be in the nursing home.
 
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FG - you have lost me completely. What are you talking about ?

I have asked you two direct questions in my post above and all you do is obfuscate.

I engaged in this conversation with you in good faith, but I see I am wasting my time.

Over and out.

Fibro, I believe fg is implying that Ivan's statement leaves room for plausible deniability through omission. By using the word received he obfuscates the possibility that he has agreed to return to coach at Penrith, though no formal offer was made.

Many thanks for stating the position so clearly NT. I think one of the reasons FG has failed to articulate his position clearly is that when it is articulated, it appears nonsensical.

You refer to "the possibility that he has agreed to return to coach at Penrith, though no formal offer was made."

Ivan actually didn't say "formal" offer, he said "I have not received any offer….."

To "receive" an offer means it is made either orally or in writing.

What I was hoping FG would explain is how Ivan could possibly accept an offer that he had not received.

It is fundamental that any contract requires an offer and acceptance. If you have not received an offer you can't have either a contract or an understanding.

In any event, if Ivan had accepted a coaching position with Penrith, why would he tie himself up in semantic knots like this. It doesn't make sense. He would have simply delivered an Anthony Seibold type statement and said "I have a contract with the Tigers until 2020". End of story.

If Ivan has agreed to go to the Panthers he has already said too much.

If your having a bet why doesn’t the loser donate 50 bucks to the website?
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I already have and you can see by the Forum Supporter icon beneath my username that I indeed help out, and will continue to do so. It would not hurt for a lot more fellow forumers that can afford it to do likewise, especially if they are not happy about speeds or it falling down at peak times.
 
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Sheens has won comps. And Cleary has won ??????

I’m hearing crickets guys

He rebuilt the Warriors, the Panthers and is rebuilding Wests. Not a bad cv.
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Sounds like the builder from up the road who has some good reviews on Hi-Pages.

Meanwhile Sheens is more your Masterton Homes winning awards etc.
 
It was nice seeing Ivan Cleary on the sideline anxiously hoping his side would win. He certainly didn’t seem like the sort of person who wants OUT of the club.
 
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