Ivan Cleary - THREAD..

[The_Patriot]

I think we can all come to terms with now. he is not going to stay. there is no simple misunderstanding. He is weighing up his future/ going through the motions.

Gone!

 

[HabboTiger]

Not much in the way of players available

 

[Spud_Murphy]

There are a million ways this could have gone down but my suggestion is that it possibly could have gone like this.

Ivan Cleary as stated goes to a meeting with Penrith about his son Nathan. During that meeting and with coaching uncertainty, Cleary asks who will be the coach? Penrith response at this time is 'we don't know but would you be interested in returning'? Cleary says I'm contracted with WT, but I'll never say never. Penrith says let's go to Gus Gould and see what he thinks. At this point in time there is no offer made, the meeting is iver and so there is nothing to tell the West Tigers. I wouldn't tell my employer either. Nothing has happened!

When the actual sacking of Griffin occurs Nathan Cleary then goes straight to Pascoe and says mate just letting you know that I speak to Penrith last week and the coaching came up in the conversation. Pascoe asks how far did discussions go? Cleary correctly replies that it was raised, but there was no offer.

Pascoe goes straight to the board and says there is potential for a coaching offer for Cleary, what would happen if he wanted to go? at which time it was decided vehemently that there would be no release.

The media then chase up on the potential for Cleary and even as early as the next morning, no offer had been made to Cleary. But in fact one was made later in the day.

Clearly is considering the offer, as we all would and should. None of us know what is in the offer and it might be absolutely too good to refuse.

Pascoe confirms with the media that a release will not be granted and at the same time Cleary is considering the offer and his options.

I personally don't have a problem with the above if it happened that way. I also don't have a problem if Cleary comes out today or tomorrow and says he considered an offer to return to Penrith and coach his son but he decided he would like to finish his work at the Tigers.

There is so much going around in the media they can't be trusted. 3 weeks ago Cleary and his son were at the Roosters next year. 2 weeks ago Cleary and his son were at the Brisbane Broncos next year. Last week Cleary and his son were at West Tigers next year. The media are changing their stories every week and I wouldn't believe too much of what any of them say.

And as for being sick of hearing about his son, Cleary has never raised that in the media. There is a fascination and the questions come to him from the media constantly. What is he supposed to say? He gives an honest answer and people crucify him. I think it's actually refreshing.

Good post Swordy and hopefully that is the way it has gone down so far. I have no issue with Cleary at the moment, he's being honest with WT management and is just trying to ride out the media circus. My anger is wholly with Penrith management, and Gould in particular, for the underhanded way they have gone about trying to secure Nathan's signature by poaching his father from us mid-contract, causing all sorts of uncertainty and instability in our club!

We just didn't need this! It is rotten of them to do this to a struggling club that is simply trying to get back on its feet after years of instability and mismanagement, and the whole rugby league world knows it! They certainly haven't hidden their agenda with the sacking of Griffin - Gould & Penrith are 'mud' at the moment and rightly so.

Ftr, if Cleary does end up leaving, it will be very disappointing, but I'll happily take Griffin in his place - he's a way better coach than Gould is making him out to be. Gould is the problem at Penrith, not Griffin!

 

[Abraham]

Ivan Cleary addresses players as Wests Tigers discuss compensation option

Michael Chammas Chief Reporter
Wed 8 Aug 2018, 12:00 PM
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Ivan Cleary addressed the Wests Tigers players on Wednesday morning for the first time since news broke of Penrith's plan to lure him back.

NRL.com understands he couldn't guarantee where he would be next season. He couldn't lie to his players, admitting he had a tough family decision to make.

The Tigers have called an extraordinary board meeting on Wednesday night to discuss the future of the organisation, however as it stands Cleary has not yet asked for a release and is not expected to front the board.

Wests Tigers will fight to ensure that release is rejected if requested, however they are also prepared for things to escalate with the Panthers in the pursuit of Cleary's signature.

They have discussed putting a multimillion-dollar compensation fee on the coach and demanding player transfers from the Panthers if Cleary is to ask for a release from the final two years of his contract.

That's the last resort. Their intention is to deny any potential release request and expect Cleary to continue business as usual, such is their opinion of the coach.

Some would argue Cleary's position at the joint-venture club is almost untenable given the amount of consideration he has already given to leaving the club to link with his son Nathan at the Panthers.

But the reality is the Tigers have been thinking about extending his tenure, not ending it.

The problem is Ivan's unbreakable bond with his son, and rightly so, it has clouded the usually unflappable coach's judgement.

For months the Tigers have been gearing up to raid the Panthers for their halfback to join Luke Brooks, Josh Reynolds and Moses Mbye in the spine. They wanted the Cleary combination.

It's not that Nathan doesn't want to join the Wests Tigers. Perhaps it's more accurate to suggest he just doesn't want to leave Penrith. It's where he played most of his junior footy. It's where he went to school. It's where all his friends play.

The Tigers know this isn't about anything but family. Ivan loves the Tigers. He's happy at the club.

But in the background, his son senses an opportunity for the family to be reunited and that is something Ivan just won't disregard.

The tug-of-war between the two clubs has escalated, with Tigers chief executive Justin Pascoe declaring the club would not be bullied by their western Sydney rivals.

The Tigers have vivid memories of the Panthers putting a $1 million transfer fee on Matt Moylan when they were in discussions with him about leaving Penrith last year.

Penrith have also been privately reminding people of all the coach and player contracts the Tigers have ended early in recent years, including that of their last coach, Jason Taylor.

Panthers general manager Phil Gould on Tuesday night retweeted a story from the Western Weekender in 2015 which highlighted Pascoe's resignation from the Panthers to take up the job as Tigers chief executive.

Pascoe didn't breach his contract and only had to provide four weeks' notice, but the Panthers haven't forgotten the way in which he left and the staff he took with him.

Tigers chairwoman Marina Go was on business duties in Melbourne when news of Penrith's interest in Cleary broke earlier in the week.

She has returned to Sydney and has called for a meeting of the board to discuss the predicament the club now finds itself in.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Pretty sure that meeting was already scheduled. Don't think they called due to whats happening.

 

[TopTiger]

Ivan Cleary addressed the Wests Tigers players on Wednesday morning for the first time since news broke of Penrith's plan to lure him back.

NRL.com understands he couldn't guarantee where he would be next season. He couldn't lie to his players, admitting he had a tough family decision to make.

The Tigers have called an extraordinary board meeting on Wednesday night to discuss the future of the organisation, however as it stands Cleary has not yet asked for a release and is not expected to front the board.

Ivan Cleary addresses players as Wests Tigers discuss compensation option NRL.com

I don't understand the "tough family decision" given that Pascoe had stated that if Ivan wants to sign Nathan then he had the club's backing to do so, therefore he gets to coach his son at the Tigers????? More to do with money & want the Panthers provide re roster and facilities etc. The mantra of "In Ivan we trust" could well and truly be shattered in the next few days!!

 

[hobbo]

Take it with a grain of salt, but have heard Penrith have offered to pay out Cleary's contract, plus an extra 400k as a sweetener. All up could be close to 2 million.

Kings ransom. Player will be involved

Let me guess ….

We’re getting Tim Grant and MWZ back !

:roll

 

[tigerap]

Reports that Cleary has addressed the playing group and advised them he has a "tough family decision to make"

Wests Tigers board meeting tonight to look at options including a pay out figure and player transfers

What player transfers…The players can't be traded around like pawns - they have contracts with Penrith....not the WT.

 

[dazza65]

Reports that Cleary has addressed the playing group and advised them he has a "tough family decision to make"

Wests Tigers board meeting tonight to look at options including a pay out figure and player transfers

I reckon little Nathy has told daddy he wasn’t want to play with those nasty tigers so daddy said all right sonny, i’ll Come look after you at the chocolates.

 

[HabboTiger]

It’s simple, Nathan doesn’t want to come to the tigers and gus constructed another option.

 

[smoking_gun]

Take it with a grain of salt, but have heard Penrith have offered to pay out Cleary's contract, plus an extra 400k as a sweetener. All up could be close to 2 million.

Kings ransom. Player will be involved

400k isnt a kings ransom, what do you suggest is acceptable for a kings ransom?

Not saying you said 400k is correct just to clarify.

Panthers will pay for tigers next coach plus players either via swaps or direct moving.

Example - Blake and whare for MWZ.

 

[tigerap]

Ivan Cleary addressed the Wests Tigers players on Wednesday morning for the first time since news broke of Penrith's plan to lure him back.

NRL.com understands he couldn't guarantee where he would be next season. He couldn't lie to his players, admitting he had a tough family decision to make.

The Tigers have called an extraordinary board meeting on Wednesday night to discuss the future of the organisation, however as it stands Cleary has not yet asked for a release and is not expected to front the board.

Ivan Cleary addresses players as Wests Tigers discuss compensation option NRL.com

I don't understand the "tough family decision" given that Pascoe had stated that if Ivan wants to sign Nathan then he had the club's backing to do so, therefore he gets to coach his son at the Tigers????? More to do with money & want the Panthers provide re roster and facilities etc. The mantra of "In Ivan we trust" could well and truly be shattered in the next few days!!

The trust is eroding by the minute…...the WT can and will give Ivan everything he wants, including his son, if THEY are prepared to accept what we offer...Sadly Ivans integrity as a person is going down the gurgler...

 

[HabboTiger]

2 million doesn’t even address it.

Sure that covers Ivan, but we are still locked up with junk signings and no progression for next year with our roster.

Given the longevity of signings I would be seeking 10 mill

 

[TYGA]

This happens all the time in NBA and NFL usually costs big money and draft picks. John Gruden and Doc Rivers come to mind.

In this case it has to be punitive 2m cash and 3 players. Panthers will do it they have the coin and no cap on expenses for 2 years.
They will release players to keep the Clearys.

 

[Nucky_Thompson]

The poor players.

Yep if it’s “done deal” with Cleary leaving then all (WT compensation, Cleary contract and announcements) should be sorted before our next game.
Can’t see that our team runs out with this hanging over them.

The players have been amazing this year I want to give up the game but still respect these players.

 

[WT2K]

I pray he takes eisenhuth with him

King of the plodders

 

[Harvey]

What happens if Nathan were to suffer a career ending injury

 

[Furious1]

I like that the WT haven’t forgotten the million dollar transfer fee re Moylan.

Of course we are in a shocking position now of being unable to shop for players because of probable unknown coach. The damage has been done. I’d be looking at multi million dollar payout

 

[Geo]

Take it with a grain of salt, but have heard Penrith have offered to pay out Cleary's contract, plus an extra 400k as a sweetener. All up could be close to 2 million.

Kings ransom. Player will be involved

400k isnt a kings ransom, what do you suggest is acceptable for a kings ransom?

Not saying you said 400k is correct just to clarify.

Panthers will pay for tigers next coach plus players either via swaps or direct moving.

Example - Blake and whare for MWZ.

What if Blake and Whare don't want to go…MWZ has already signed with them for next year..

I would ask for Cleary and Kikau..that's compensation..

 

[Nelson]

So what would we all say if iC and JP have a conference today to say they’ve extended his contract another 2 years?
Would we all say that he’s still shifty and not trust what he’s doing?
There’s allegedly a good chance he was blindsided by this offer from Penrith, and like any person core values or not he would naturally think them over, it would only be human not to.
Hopefully today this is all put to bed one way or the other and we can all move forward….
1 Cleary stays and everything keeps on moving, albeit with NC coming soon
2 Cleary goes, someone like a Maguire comes in and galvanizes everything and we become stronger....

I was going to post something similar to this.

After all the furore yesterday afternoon, the undisputed facts of the matter are that Penrith have approached Cleary in some form, he has told the Tigers and the Tigers have made media statements that they will not release Ivan.

Whether or not Ivan is weighing up an offer - I don't think that really matters and I don't think it is a smear on Ivan's character.

Imagine if you were in your regular contract job, which you liked, and you had long-term aspirations with your current company and you liked the people and the challenges… and then your best mate from Company B comes to you and says: "I can guarantee you a contract of double-length, same seniority, double the pay and we get to work together in the best facilities".

Do you straight away say "nah mate, I'm a man/woman of my convictions and I'm going to honour my current contract"? Or do you take a few days to mull over this opportunity?

With respect to your current employer, do you then go to them and say "look, I've been offered a really substantial deal by Company B and I wanted to respect you and let you know that is has happened and I'm thinking about it. I expect you are going to hear rumours on the grapevine, so I wanted to come to you first. I've been caught by surprise by these developments and I can't make a decision right this minute. I like it here, and if you could match the conditions of their offer, I'd really like to weigh up two equal offers."

All of that sounds fair to me, and in terms of the facts presented, they are the only things that have happened. Some fans have taken Wests' media posturing to be about Ivan Cleary, but actually I think it's more about taking on Penrith very early in the piece. I think Tigers have been very aggressive to come out in the media and basically say "if any of this Penrith talk is true, we will fight it with everything we have." Worst thing to do for Tigers would be to go quiet and let Penrith think it will be a cakewalk.

But Ivan himself - what does the man say to placate fans right this moment? He's got a team to coach for this weekend. There's only two things Ivan can say to appease Tigers fans - #1 I have had an offer but I've decided to reject it; #2 I have had a substantial offer and I need time to consider it, without putting my current duties on hold.

Outcome #1 - unlikely to happen within a few days of Griffin being sacked, if the offer is genuinely new and substantial. Who would truly make a decision that quickly, even with the strongest convictions - sport is about making the most of your finite-length career.

Outcome #2 - fair and reasonable, however the stickler is that Tigers have already said they won't release. So how can Ivan come out and say publicly that he's considering a rival offer, when his current employers have already publicly stated that they won't let him? Tigers have essentially backed Ivan into a corner, and that's why I guess he hasn't made a statement yet - not because he's gone, but because anything he says would be contradictory to comments already made by both Penrith and Wests. Ivan also can't come out and say he's accepted an offer, because legally he's not allowed to and he gets himself into legal trouble by making such public statements.

Cleary can't avoid the press for long however; he has head coach duties and they are sure as hell going to bail him up.

I think people are mostly being fair so far - surprised, and if Ivan does ask to leave there will be huge backlash, but also he hasn't said or done anything in public yet.

You can't hate on Ivan for weighing up what is likely a very attractive job offer.

Playing careers might be short-lived but in theory coaches should get better with age and experience. I don't think you can properly treat careers in "sport" in the abstract in that way.

Also, your sample scenario needs to factor in that the contracted employee is in a very senior position and has used that very senior position to bring in a whole lot of his mates from other companies on the understanding that they would be working for and with him. At least one of those mates has up and moved his family overseas for the opportunity.