Jason Taylor ...THREAD...

[glebe_tiger]

Win lose or draw, what are the better coaching options at the time you consider Taylor's time is done?
That's the question. If we're traveling bad still in say a years time, are there better options out there that will give us success? Lot of people are saying Cleary or Toovey i'm skeptical on both.

 

[Doc_Tiger]

There's a lot on here that think we're finalists one week, a basket case the next and then top 8 material once again following the odd win. If this trend of hot and cold or pretty hot in certain areas of certain games and really cold in others continues, then I think only a change of coach can change that. I'm sure JT wants the best for the players and club, but I don't believe he has the ability to cultivate it.

 

[stevetiger]

There's a lot on here that think we're finalists one week, a basket case the next and then top 8 material once again following the odd win. If this trend of hot and cold or pretty hot in certain areas of certain games and really cold in others continues, then I think only a change of coach can change that. I'm sure JT wants the best for the players and club, but I don't believe he has the ability to cultivate it.

I think that based on performances so far JT has to go. The question is do we give him some time to turn it around and how much time. I figure lets see how we go up until the end of this year. 2 bottom 5 teams performances in a row though and he should be gone. Even if you keep him for another year I would be getting another coach because 2 poor years out of 3 with the squad we have is not acceptable.

 

[coopy]

I don't believe the players are not "playing" for JT a part from the aberration against the Raiders and to a lesser extent Newcastle, their effort has been fine.

What is going against him and to my mind adversely affecting our overall performances are his selections and bench rotations. I am not sure if his hand is being forced due to cap restrictions but those selections are his and his alone.

 

[stevetiger]

I don't believe the players are not "playing" for JT a part from the aberration against the Raiders and to a lesser extent Newcastle, their effort has been fine.

What is going against him and to my mind adversely affecting our overall performances are his selections and bench rotations. I am not sure if his hand is being forced due to cap restrictions but those selections are his and his alone.

Plus poor game plans on numerous occasions plus not getting enough out of our squad which is partly due to the poor selections and bench rotations.

 

[NT_Tiger]

There's a lot on here that think we're finalists one week, a basket case the next and then top 8 material once again following the odd win. If this trend of hot and cold or pretty hot in certain areas of certain games and really cold in others continues, then I think only a change of coach can change that. I'm sure JT wants the best for the players and club, but I don't believe he has the ability to cultivate it.

I think that based on performances so far JT has to go. The question is do we give him some time to turn it around and how much time. I figure lets see how we go up until the end of this year. 2 bottom 5 teams performances in a row though and he should be gone. Even if you keep him for another year I would be getting another coach because 2 poor years out of 3 with the squad we have is not acceptable.

Let's ask Pascoe to put Des Hasler on notice to stand-by.

 

[851]

So do you all still want JT sacked this week ? Were their really any negotiations with Cleary Payten or Toovey

Yes I still want him sacked, yeh we won, but souths were abysmal, and Taylor's team selections, game plans and bench rotations are absolutely laughable.
Players can play as bad as they like, miss as many tackles as they like, give away as many penalties as they like, they will still be there again next week.
One win against a woeful souths has not changed my mind one bit, Taylor has been here since October 2014 and he hasn't really made any progress with our major weaknesses, our halves have regressed, and I can't really think of any player bar Tedesco who has really come on.
As a former half and goal kicker he has not improved our halves or our goal kicking, which should be his strengths.
In my opinion Taylor has had enough time to do something, he has failed and should be moved on for a coach who has accountability atop his tree.
I think Taylor is trying as hard as he can, but this is not junior footy and that don't cut it at NRL level, we avoided the spoon on F/A last year and currently sit 3rd last, I think it is time with the 2 week break to say good bye Jason.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

GCT wrote:

**"Whether JT had much to do with the change in the team this week is something that we dont know, or , whether it was a big effort by the players themselves, along with the new blokes, to regain some pride in themselves, my guess, ( and it could be wrong,). is that that is more likely what it was. I doubt that JT was in the front of everybodys minds when they ran out. It hasn't been before, so why would that change."**

A lot of what you say maybe true but…. you can't have it both ways.

When we win it is more likely a big effort by the players - JT wasn't in their minds when they ran on etc.

When we lose it is Taylor - not good enough, plays favs etc...... but why isn't it a below par effort from the players and that maybe against Canberra JT did everything right.

You do not get efforts like the games against the Storm and Souths if the coach has lost the players (i.e the players do not think he is doing a good job) - Oh! but those teams were crap, all we had to do was run on the field and the opposition supplied the effort for us.

It does not hurt to give credit when credit is due. Whether you need to do that next game, we do all realise that you may not have to.

As I say you can't have it both ways.

Not trying to Russ.
I've criticised the players plenty of times as well as JT. The players are responsible for their bad games, but Taylor is responsible for a lot of the problems as well.
IMO we've quite a lot of players that are not NRL standard.
But Taylor seems to be unable to motivate them most weeks. Or even come up with sensible team selections.
My point is that Taylor hasn't magically morphed our team into world beaters overnight, how many sides have been thrashed one week and then come out and have a very good win the next, sometimes over good teams (which Souths on Thursday weren't) and drop back to mediocracy soon after.
If we retain this new found energy for a while , il be the first to congratulate Taylor.
But the leopard hasn't changed his spots yet , and for the moment in my opinion the win over Souths was a result of players being embarrassed over their performances, not any visionary coaching
Just don't let the near record of 6 six losses completely cloud your mind
If one win makes him a good coach, what does 6 straight losses (including one against our fellow wooden Spooners last year) make him
And you fail to mention that I also congratulated Taylor for the win.

 

[Doc_Tiger]

So do you all still want JT sacked this week ? Were their really any negotiations with Cleary Payten or Toovey

Yes I still want him sacked, yeh we won, but souths were abysmal, and Taylor's team selections, game plans and bench rotations are absolutely laughable.
Players can play as bad as they like, miss as many tackles as they like, give away as many penalties as they like, they will still be there again next week.
One win against a woeful souths has not changed my mind one bit, Taylor has been here since October 2014 and he hasn't really made any progress with our major weaknesses, our halves have regressed, and I can't really think of any player bar Tedesco who has really come on.
As a former half and goal kicker he has not improved our halves or our goal kicking, which should be his strengths.
In my opinion Taylor has had enough time to do something, he has failed and should be moved on for a coach who has accountability atop his tree.
I think Taylor is trying as hard as he can, but this is not junior footy and that don't cut it at NRL level, we avoided the spoon on F/A last year and currently sit 3rd last, I think it is time with the 2 week break to say good bye Jason.

Yeah , what he said. I reckon he was very critical of where we were at as a team when Potter was let go and he himself said on a few occasions that he should be judged on his results. Up until now, his results aren't great and he's had more to work with than Potter. Not good enough if we're going to compare.

 

[TrueTiger]

So do you all still want JT sacked this week ? Were their really any negotiations with Cleary Payten or Toovey

Yes I still want him sacked, yeh we won, but souths were abysmal, and Taylor's team selections, game plans and bench rotations are absolutely laughable.
Players can play as bad as they like, miss as many tackles as they like, give away as many penalties as they like, they will still be there again next week.
One win against a woeful souths has not changed my mind one bit, Taylor has been here since October 2014 and he hasn't really made any progress with our major weaknesses, our halves have regressed, and I can't really think of any player bar Tedesco who has really come on.
As a former half and goal kicker he has not improved our halves or our goal kicking, which should be his strengths.
In my opinion Taylor has had enough time to do something, he has failed and should be moved on for a coach who has accountability atop his tree.
I think Taylor is trying as hard as he can, but this is not junior footy and that don't cut it at NRL level, we avoided the spoon on F/A last year and currently sit 3rd last, I think it is time with the 2 week break to say good bye Jason.

Yeah , what he said. I reckon he was very critical of where we were at as a team when Potter was let go and he himself said on a few occasions that he should be judged on his results. Up until now, his results aren't great and he's had more to work with than Potter. Not good enough if we're going to compare.

Firstly, Potter had his hands tied well and truly in respect to recruiting and he still said to judge him by results even though 3/4 of his NRL side was sidelined with injury and some were quite capable players….Taylor has had very talented players (apparently) at his disposal,however they are mostly in our squad due to hype and reputation in NYC company...Taylors job is made so much more difficult in trying to develope and teach these very inexperienced young guys how to play to NRL structures as well as keep the experienced players on their jobs..I really don't care for people calling for his head because of some very close losses and a beating by the raiders,if these players are to excellent in NRL they should really learn as much as they can from the coach...the argument for Brooks regressing is maybe he has had a hard time playing to NRL structures amongst seasoned proffessionals and adapting to the big arena and not his own age group...the win against South's was brilliant and JT should be congratulated for fielding the team in a very good frame of mind to get the win,especially after Moses couldn't make the game at such short notice......so for my opinion,JT hasn't done a bad job with this young group and I would bet they will develops into very capable NRL players given more time and games at this level..its always easy to critise when things don't go the way you want but step into JTs shoes and let's see how well your performances are with only average fringe first graders, inexperienced youth and a couple of seasoned NRL players...

 

[Doc_Tiger]

So do you all still want JT sacked this week ? Were their really any negotiations with Cleary Payten or Toovey

Yes I still want him sacked, yeh we won, but souths were abysmal, and Taylor's team selections, game plans and bench rotations are absolutely laughable.
Players can play as bad as they like, miss as many tackles as they like, give away as many penalties as they like, they will still be there again next week.
One win against a woeful souths has not changed my mind one bit, Taylor has been here since October 2014 and he hasn't really made any progress with our major weaknesses, our halves have regressed, and I can't really think of any player bar Tedesco who has really come on.
As a former half and goal kicker he has not improved our halves or our goal kicking, which should be his strengths.
In my opinion Taylor has had enough time to do something, he has failed and should be moved on for a coach who has accountability atop his tree.
I think Taylor is trying as hard as he can, but this is not junior footy and that don't cut it at NRL level, we avoided the spoon on F/A last year and currently sit 3rd last, I think it is time with the 2 week break to say good bye Jason.

Yeah , what he said. I reckon he was very critical of where we were at as a team when Potter was let go and he himself said on a few occasions that he should be judged on his results. Up until now, his results aren't great and he's had more to work with than Potter. Not good enough if we're going to compare.

Firstly, Potter had his hands tied well and truly in respect to recruiting and he still said to judge him by results even though 3/4 of his NRL side was sidelined with injury and some were quite capable players….Taylor has had very talented players (apparently) at his disposal,however they are mostly in our squad due to hype and reputation in NYC company...Taylors job is made so much more difficult in trying to develope and teach these very inexperienced young guys how to play to NRL structures as well as keep the experienced players on their jobs..I really don't care for people calling for his head because of some very close losses and a beating by the raiders,if these players are to excellent in NRL they should really learn as much as they can from the coach...the argument for Brooks regressing is maybe he has had a hard time playing to NRL structures amongst seasoned proffessionals and adapting to the big arena and not his own age group...the win against South's was brilliant and JT should be congratulated for fielding the team in a very good frame of mind to get the win,especially after Moses couldn't make the game at such short notice......so for my opinion,JT hasn't done a bad job with this young group and I would bet they will develops into very capable NRL players given more time and games at this level..its always easy to critise when things don't go the way you want but step into JTs shoes and let's see how well your performances are with only average fringe first graders, inexperienced youth and a couple of seasoned NRL players...

We'll I don't profess to be a first grade coach. But I am astute enough to know that some that have played 1st grade for us this year are nowhere near 1st graders. If he says judge him on results, then so be it.

 

[Russell]

GCT wrote:

**"Whether JT had much to do with the change in the team this week is something that we dont know, or , whether it was a big effort by the players themselves, along with the new blokes, to regain some pride in themselves, my guess, ( and it could be wrong,). is that that is more likely what it was. I doubt that JT was in the front of everybodys minds when they ran out. It hasn't been before, so why would that change."**

A lot of what you say maybe true but…. you can't have it both ways.

When we win it is more likely a big effort by the players - JT wasn't in their minds when they ran on etc.

When we lose it is Taylor - not good enough, plays favs etc...... but why isn't it a below par effort from the players and that maybe against Canberra JT did everything right.

You do not get efforts like the games against the Storm and Souths if the coach has lost the players (i.e the players do not think he is doing a good job) - Oh! but those teams were crap, all we had to do was run on the field and the opposition supplied the effort for us.

It does not hurt to give credit when credit is due. Whether you need to do that next game, we do all realise that you may not have to.

As I say you can't have it both ways.

Not trying to Russ.
I've criticised the players plenty of times as well as JT. The players are responsible for their bad games, but Taylor is responsible for a lot of the problems as well.
IMO we've quite a lot of players that are not NRL standard.
But Taylor seems to be unable to motivate them most weeks. Or even come up with sensible team selections.
My point is that Taylor hasn't magically morphed our team into world beaters overnight, how many sides have been thrashed one week and then come out and have a very good win the next, sometimes over good teams (which Souths on Thursday weren't) and drop back to mediocracy soon after.
If we retain this new found energy for a while , il be the first to congratulate Taylor.
But the leopard hasn't changed his spots yet , and for the moment in my opinion the win over Souths was a result of players being embarrassed over their performances, not any visionary coaching
Just don't let the near record of 6 six losses completely cloud your mind
If one win makes him a good coach, what does 6 straight losses (including one against our fellow wooden Spooners last year) make him
And you fail to mention that I also congratulated Taylor for the win.

GCT you mentioned above that you congratulated JT for the win - is this it?

**While I would, congratulate the team mostly , and also Taylorfor the effort on Thursday night, but, just as my attitude about Taylor wasn't formed during one Game,
I won't be changing it over One Game either. !!!!!**

My reading is that you said you would, but you haven't. That is ok. You don't have to. It is your right to / or not to as you choose.

Apart from the loss to Canberra I think he has done a good job (without settling for mediocrity), with what he has to work with. We would like a couple of star players to ensure a few more wins and I am sure he would to. Not easy when the cookie jar is empty. Is he playing favorites? or restricted by the second tier cap?
I don't wish to condemn him for things that I have no reason for going down a certain path. I admit, I don't know GCT. I don't know what he is trying to achieve down the track - do you?

I am sure his master plan is to have a team that tries it's guts out every week, with a few good experienced players added to help the younger ones develop and to win as many games as possible. I would think that is what most people on this Forum want as well.

 

[stevetiger]

**I reckon he was very critical of where we were at as a team** when Potter was let go and he himself said on a few occasions that he should be judged on his results. **Up until now, his results aren't great and he's had more to work with than Potter. Not good enough if we're going to compare.**

This wraps it up for me. He came in and talked the big talk. He has under delivered despite appearing to have it a lot easier than Potter did.

As a club I don't believe it's acceptable.

 

[sheer64]

I actually think Taylor will see out the year and if close enough to the eight next year as well. But should we finish 15th/16th…..

 

[GNR4LIFE]

I actually think Taylor will see out the year and if close enough to the eight next year as well. But should we finish 15th/16th…..

Yeah, anywhere between 9th and 12th should be enough to see him into 2017 imo. 2017 is the 8 or bust.

 

[TrueTiger]

I actually think Taylor will see out the year and if close enough to the eight next year as well. But should we finish 15th/16th…..

Yeah, anywhere between 9th and 12th should be enough to see him into 2017 imo. 2017 is the 8 or bust.

As has been stated before,the club can't keep sacking coaches and not letting them finish their tenure..its a recipe for disaster and we have been down that road before…for all the negatives that are posted on the forum,JT hasn't done to bad a job with what he has,the team has had close losses and a belting in the last few weeks,however the win over the Rabbits was admirable considering the team let themselves,the fans and JTdown the week before..I think they will turn the corner now,hopefully they gain much needed confidence out of the win and play with plenty of pride for the club and fans that have placed faith in them...

 

[Telltails]

If the love for Des Hasler is waning from a percentage of the Bulldog fans, then its not a surprise that a percentage of the WTs fan base would like to see the back of JT.
In the end it all comes down to a sense of whether a team is perceived to be underachieving under their coach regardless of his reputation or what he promises. The complaints against Hasler are not dissimilar to those that are being laid at JT - too structured, lacks creativity, poor game plans, buying and letting go the wrong players, favouring some players over others, not understanding the culture of the club and that things wont change till he is shown the door.
Was it Wayne Bennett that said "once you start listening to the fans then it is time to start sitting with them' - probably the mantra that most coaches learn to follow pretty quickly.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

GCT wrote:

**"Whether JT had much to do with the change in the team this week is something that we dont know, or , whether it was a big effort by the players themselves, along with the new blokes, to regain some pride in themselves, my guess, ( and it could be wrong,). is that that is more likely what it was. I doubt that JT was in the front of everybodys minds when they ran out. It hasn't been before, so why would that change."**

A lot of what you say maybe true but…. you can't have it both ways.

When we win it is more likely a big effort by the players - JT wasn't in their minds when they ran on etc.

When we lose it is Taylor - not good enough, plays favs etc...... but why isn't it a below par effort from the players and that maybe against Canberra JT did everything right.

You do not get efforts like the games against the Storm and Souths if the coach has lost the players (i.e the players do not think he is doing a good job) - Oh! but those teams were crap, all we had to do was run on the field and the opposition supplied the effort for us.

It does not hurt to give credit when credit is due. Whether you need to do that next game, we do all realise that you may not have to.

As I say you can't have it both ways.

Not trying to Russ.
I've criticised the players plenty of times as well as JT. The players are responsible for their bad games, but Taylor is responsible for a lot of the problems as well.
IMO we've quite a lot of players that are not NRL standard.
But Taylor seems to be unable to motivate them most weeks. Or even come up with sensible team selections.
My point is that Taylor hasn't magically morphed our team into world beaters overnight, how many sides have been thrashed one week and then come out and have a very good win the next, sometimes over good teams (which Souths on Thursday weren't) and drop back to mediocracy soon after.
If we retain this new found energy for a while , il be the first to congratulate Taylor.
But the leopard hasn't changed his spots yet , and for the moment in my opinion the win over Souths was a result of players being embarrassed over their performances, not any visionary coaching
Just don't let the near record of 6 six losses completely cloud your mind
If one win makes him a good coach, what does 6 straight losses (including one against our fellow wooden Spooners last year) make him
And you fail to mention that I also congratulated Taylor for the win.

GCT you mentioned above that you congratulated JT for the win - is this it?

**While I would, congratulate the team mostly , and also Taylorfor the effort on Thursday night, but, just as my attitude about Taylor wasn't formed during one Game,
I won't be changing it over One Game either. !!!!!**

My reading is that you said you would, but you haven't. That is ok. You don't have to. It is your right to / or not to as you choose.

Apart from the loss to Canberra I think he has done a good job (without settling for mediocrity), with what he has to work with. We would like a couple of star players to ensure a few more wins and I am sure he would to. Not easy when the cookie jar is empty. Is he playing favorites? or restricted by the second tier cap?
I don't wish to condemn him for things that I have no reason for going down a certain path. I admit, I don't know GCT. I don't know what he is trying to achieve down the track - do you?

I am sure his master plan is to have a team that tries it's guts out every week, with a few good experienced players added to help the younger ones develop and to win as many games as possible. I would think that is what most people on this Forum want as well.

Yes that's what I meant. I'm quite happy to change that one word to "do" if that makes mu meaning clearer,
I'm not going to go over the details of all our losses so far this year, or the quality of every team we have played , that's evident for anyone to see for themselves.
In answer to your question, No, I have no idea of what he is trying to achieve with the team. As there has been very few indications that he is changing anything.

I would assume that one off his main aims would be to get the team to be able to play 40 minutes of football before clocking off. Even in our last game , we followed the script of giving away soft tries in the 5 minutes either side of half time.
He's had the team for over a year and a half and we are still doing the same thing with monotonous regularity it's either a lack of concentration or lack of fitness.
But he seems powerless to change it !!
To me , he just doesn't seem to have answers to any of our problem.
If just once , he had the guts to hook one of these lazy forwards, ( or Backs ). After they've imitated a turnstile , or just stood there and watched the opposition stroll over our line for a soft try, Then I might have some respect at least for him.
Show them that this crap isn't going to be accepted any more
There's no Salary Cap problems for hooking a Player whose bludging in defence

If he doesn't see the problem , then he's a crap Coach, and, if he sees it and isn't capable of changing the problem, then he's simply incompetent .

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

If the love for Des Hasler is waning from a percentage of the Bulldog fans, then its not a surprise that a percentage of the WTs fan base would like to see the back of JT.
In the end it all comes down to a sense of whether a team is perceived to be underachieving under their coach regardless of his reputation or what he promises. The complaints against Hasler are not dissimilar to those that are being laid at JT - too structured, lacks creativity, poor game plans, buying and letting go the wrong players, favouring some players over others, not understanding the culture of the club and that things wont change till he is shown the door.

Wasit Wayne Bennett that said "once you start listening to the fans then it is time to start sitting with them' - probably the mantra that most coaches learn to follow pretty quickly.

.

Before we get too wrapped up in what Wayne Bennett says, it was also him that said
" we have to support the international game " :laughing:
As well as" ill coach Newcastle for three years" as he picked up his marbles and ran because it was all too hard. :laughing: :laughing:
And of course the old favourite" why of course Mr Politas, I'll be definetly be coaching at the Roosters next year"" :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
He's got a million of those old sayings that show his undoubted integrity, or at least until someone waves a bigger roll of note under his nose :unamused:

 

[Telltails]

If the love for Des Hasler is waning from a percentage of the Bulldog fans, then its not a surprise that a percentage of the WTs fan base would like to see the back of JT.
In the end it all comes down to a sense of whether a team is perceived to be underachieving under their coach regardless of his reputation or what he promises. The complaints against Hasler are not dissimilar to those that are being laid at JT - too structured, lacks creativity, poor game plans, buying and letting go the wrong players, favouring some players over others, not understanding the culture of the club and that things wont change till he is shown the door.

Wasit Wayne Bennett that said "once you start listening to the fans then it is time to start sitting with them' - probably the mantra that most coaches learn to follow pretty quickly.

.

Before we get too wrapped up in what Wayne Bennett says, it was also him that said
" we have to support the international game " :laughing:
As well as" ill coach Newcastle for three years" as he picked up his marbles and ran because it was all too hard. :laughing: :laughing:
And of course the old favourite" why of course Mr Politas, I'll be definetly be coaching at the Roosters next year"" :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
He's got a million of those old sayings that show his undoubted integrity, or at least until someone waves a bigger roll of note under his nose :unamused:

Ha GCT thats the trouble when you speak with one liners - they come back to haunt you. Not saying we should be wrapped up in the sayings of Wayne - but if you were a coach and you want to last the distance and get some sleep at night its probably not bad advice.