Joe Ofahengaue #240

[yoyoyoyo]

@strongee - understand your point of view. I just have a different one. As I said, and these are only my opinions, if they seem strong it's because they are, like all of us we believe we are right until someone provides a different point of view that we believe in.

I'm open to being proven wrong - and I hope I am for the clubs sake but, and I can only talk from my experience in business dealing with people, negotiating etc and from my experience with Justin, personally, and now seeing what Lee is saying in the media... It's just not a professional look for the club.

There is a reason why we are probably in the bottom 4 of how the industry (players, agents, journos, other administrators etc) views administration.

I am not fuelled by my desire to be right - just look at how our back office has performed for the last 5 years... Do you think we are a desirable club to come to? Do you think other clubs think we are a serious force behind the scenes? Do you think we are deemed a "power club"? I don't - but thats just my opinion.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

I saw a post on some social media platform that put Wests Tigers fans as the biggest whingers in the comp. I go for us and i actually agree. We get rid of potential cancer for at least 100k. for all we know its 350k. We get a yoiung forward who has in the past played for qld so is a rep player. and our management still gets slammed. Its a crazy old world. Heaven forbid giving some props to a handcuffed management on their ability to deal with these rubbish situations.


The problem is management states that JA will be mowing the lawns and they let him go. Rather them say nothing and let it run its course. Whingers well lets ask a few ? how things are run with the club.

Has Madge put pen to paper for 2 years?
Chasing JAC again when we know he wants to play at souths.
We have 3 highly paid players not performing and Pascoe was around when these were signed.
We currently train out of make shape facilities until COE is completed big plus when it is - When ?????
We are the longest club not playing finals football.
There just a few of the gripes but i think we have been a badly managed club for a number of seasons.

Sound like a broken record Chief. I get it you don't like Pascoe.Lol

Nothing personal don't know the bloke personally and i am sure he tries his best for the club but we have not played finals under his tenure and like recent interview on website talks about COE but nil completion date?

Don't really think we will have much success until we make a change at the Top.

 

[BAGNF05]

People seem to get upset on here when I criticise the club

No, it is more likely that they simply don't agree with you.

And that is fine.

 

[BAGNF05]

Not to be contentious, but there are some valid points getting lost in semantics.
We've witnessed the degradation of the club, team and our image for over a decade and those quoting the club's inability to "put their foot down" should be entitled to express this on the forum, without receiving such hostility.
I also share some of this view.
It's fantastic that we've managed to recuperate or recover however it's still frustrating as hell to watch players quite capably force the hand of our club.

People stating we're on a road to nowhere until the NRL fix this may be accurate but I recall the same type of arguments about clubs getting away with rorting, so why can't this conversation be explored in the same capacity.
Teams have adjusted their operations and methods, and are more strategic in counterattacking this specifically.
So could @trippa101 AND @BAGNF05 simply be making an attempt to open the conversation with how we can manage it from within the club?

No problem with anyone posting their opinion but if it’s not based on facts, like Bagnf05 claim that Lee leaked Aloiais comments to the media then they can and should be pulled up.

It’s a public forum. Discussion of opposing opinions is the territory and healthy but it’s not healthy when people make things up to push an agenda.

Where did I make a claim of Lee leaking? I referred to his quote in the media “it becomes untenable when a player states they do not want to play for the Wests Tigers jersey”

That’s an instruction to any player hoping to take up a better offer.

 

[earl]

Not to be be funny or rude but us not making the 8 for over a decade is nothing to do with my opinion.

This is a fact. This fact though doesn't mean we are viewed poorly or management is incompetent.

A lot of these problems are just your perspective.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

@strongee - understand your point of view. I just have a different one. As I said, and these are only my opinions, if they seem strong it's because they are, like all of us we believe we are right until someone provides a different point of view that we believe in.

I'm open to being proven wrong - and I hope I am for the clubs sake but, and I can only talk from my experience in business dealing with people, negotiating etc and from my experience with Justin, personally, and now seeing what Lee is saying in the media... It's just not a professional look for the club.

There is a reason why we are probably in the bottom 4 of how the industry (players, agents, journos, other administrators etc) views administration.

I am not fuelled by my desire to be right - just look at how our back office has performed for the last 5 years... Do you think we are a desirable club to come to? Do you think other clubs think we are a serious force behind the scenes? Do you think we are deemed a "power club"? I don't - but thats just my opinion.

Once again mate not true . We are leading the way in the corporate world , we have a reputation for always coming 9th , which isn’t bottom 4 at all , our facilities come the end of next year will be the best in the game , we have one of the best coaches , and now one of the best junior bases , as we’ve gone on a recruitment drive the last few years .
We are one of only a few profitable teams , a huge supporter base . I could literally go on .
The only thing where you are close to truthful is public perception , mainly because Murdoch media has been driving a campaign against us for years .

 

[gallagher]

Not to be be funny or rude but us not making the 8 for over a decade is nothing to do with my opinion.

This is a fact. This fact though doesn't mean we are viewed poorly or management is incompetent.

A lot of these problems are just your perspective.

And that is just your opinion, not a fact.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

@strongee - understand your point of view. I just have a different one. As I said, and these are only my opinions, if they seem strong it's because they are, like all of us we believe we are right until someone provides a different point of view that we believe in.

I'm open to being proven wrong - and I hope I am for the clubs sake but, and I can only talk from my experience in business dealing with people, negotiating etc and from my experience with Justin, personally, and now seeing what Lee is saying in the media... It's just not a professional look for the club.

There is a reason why we are probably in the bottom 4 of how the industry (players, agents, journos, other administrators etc) views administration.

I am not fuelled by my desire to be right - just look at how our back office has performed for the last 5 years... Do you think we are a desirable club to come to? Do you think other clubs think we are a serious force behind the scenes? Do you think we are deemed a "power club"? I don't - but thats just my opinion.

I’ve already stated my opinion on recruitment , on here several times . I believe that around 2013-2017 we made such a bad impression in the industry , that many people who came into contact with us , came away with a sour taste in their mouth. These players are now 25-33 years old , which is why I believe we have been smart focusing on younger players. This bad perception will take years to weed out . Think about it ... what’s your opinion on Mitsubishi ? Aldi ? Even things like Samsung had a bad rep when I was a kid . It takes years and it’s been proven time and time again , the only way to defeat it , is to engage in youth and change the narrative. .


That’s my opinion on this

 

[BAGNF05]

Wests Tigers boss says club is no soft touch

BRENT READ
6:05PM NOVEMBER 30, 2020

Josh Aloiai slipped into a Manly jersey on Monday as Wests Tigers chair Lee Hagipantelis insisted the club had shown they were no longer a soft touch with their handling of his controversial move to the Sea Eagles.

Hagipantelis had threatened to make Aloiai mow the lawns at Leichhardt and Campbelltown unless the club reached an agreement with Manly that was acceptable to the Tigers.

The Tigers eventually allowed him to leave, but only after they received financial compensation from the Sea Eagles and signing Brisbane and Queensland forward Joe Ofahengaue to fill the void created by Aloiai’s departure.

The Tigers have been branded pushovers in the past, but Hagipantelis insists they showed with their handling of Aloiai that they would no longer be an easy mark.

“I said we would not be releasing him unless there was an advantageous outcome for the Wests Tigers,” Hagipantelis said.

“At the end of the day if a player comes to you and asks to be released in the manner Josh approached the club, his remaining at the club comes untenable.

“It wasn’t simply a matter of the player approaching the club and asking for the release. There was another level introduced into it — it was publicly reported that he threatened to never pull on the jersey again.

“The jersey has a certain intrinsic value that every supporter understands. It became clear from the outset that him remaining at the Tigers was untenable.

“What we have done is release a player who did not want to play for the Wests Tigers, we have secured a player who does want to play for the Wests Tigers, and there has been a financial accommodation with two of the clubs which serves the interest of the Wests Tigers.

“So we held firm and we fulfilled out expectations as to how it was going to pan out. I think from a Wests Tigers fan and member perspective you should be proud with the way the club dealt with this situation.”

Aloiai was at Manly’s Narrabeen headquarters on Monday, having made an immediate switch to the Sea Eagles after being released fro the final year of his contract with the Tigers.

Ofahengaue, whose deal will be paid in part by the Brisbane Broncos, is yet to begin training with the Tigers, although he is expected to join his new teammates later this week.

“Did Josh get what he wanted? Yes, he got released,” Hagipantelis said.
“Did the Wests Tigers set the conditions on which the release would be granted? Yes we did. Were those conditions fulfilled? Yes, they were.

“We had a player that made it very clear he didn’t want to play with us. I ask rhetorically, why would any fan or member want that player to remain?”

Asked wether he had a parting message for Aloiai, Hagipantelis said: “I just wish Josh all the very best. I hope he takes a moment to think about some of the more intemperate remarks he made about the Wests Tigers and that he may think better of them moving forward.

“I would hope he cherishes his time at the Wests Tigers and this incident hasn’t soured any of that.”

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/nrl/wests-tigers-boss-says-club-is-no-soft-touch/news-story/2ea652a1c82931799bd3aee962cf171b

So not only are we a snowflake team we now hand out instruction manuals - “how to leave Wests Tigers if you are disgruntled”. What happens next time Lee when no props are available? Is it untenable then?

You can paint this result anyway you choose but in the end .... it’s the WT club, the Board its Chairman and the coaching staff that received the compensation and replacement player which they wanted. So satisfactory result as far as I can see.
Nothing to throw mud about.

I don’t hate the outcome but I’m disappointed in the way it leaves us open to Adam Douehi or LL doing the exact same thing.

Well so is the rest of the clubs in the league. Nothing will change until the NRL puts some effort into this problem and implements some serious rules and penalties to prevent this situation in the future.
And don’t get me started about that other elephant in the room (salary cap and player payments) that is always in too hard basket for the NRL, the clubs and the players association to get serious about.
They have these cast of thousands committees forever banging on about one or two referees and what not whilst ignoring these two priorities areas which turn ..... fans of the game like us ..... from the game in increasing numbers.

Parra enforced the Utoikamanu contract
Penrith are enforcing the Laurie contract
Dragons didn’t let Saab go this year
Gold Coast enforced Jai Arrow
Penrith are keeping Burton
Frizell stayed at Stgeorge
Melbourne / Josh Addo Carr
Etc

Why are we the snowflakes??

Edit: also agree with your salary cap commentary, I enjoy watching the NFL more these days with the draft-transfer rules being much more equitable.

Frizell didn't ask for a release.

Apart from getting Aloiai to mow lawns or play him in cc - what were you going to do?
Secondly, how was that going to help us improve as a team next year?
Thirdly how were you going to stop him putting crap on the Tigers?
Fourthly how were you going to stop him trying to entice other players away from the Tigers?

Your opinion but sure what you see in the NFL and certainly "The Draft" is right up there with communism. It is not needed in the NRL imo.

Aloiai - stand firm by expecting him at training, fine him if he didn’t show up. Force the NRL to make the necessary changes due to the media circus that would have ensued.

2021 - without dumping clearys all stars we are gonna run mid field again

I think the public opinion on this one is with WT despite what Aloiai may have said about the club.

If other players want to follow him they certainly will now, easy as spitting on the jersey.

A draft may not work but some form of talent equaliser is surely needed, at least for the sake of WT.

 

[BAGNF05]

Wests Tigers boss says club is no soft touch

BRENT READ
6:05PM NOVEMBER 30, 2020

Josh Aloiai slipped into a Manly jersey on Monday as Wests Tigers chair Lee Hagipantelis insisted the club had shown they were no longer a soft touch with their handling of his controversial move to the Sea Eagles.

Hagipantelis had threatened to make Aloiai mow the lawns at Leichhardt and Campbelltown unless the club reached an agreement with Manly that was acceptable to the Tigers.

The Tigers eventually allowed him to leave, but only after they received financial compensation from the Sea Eagles and signing Brisbane and Queensland forward Joe Ofahengaue to fill the void created by Aloiai’s departure.

The Tigers have been branded pushovers in the past, but Hagipantelis insists they showed with their handling of Aloiai that they would no longer be an easy mark.

“I said we would not be releasing him unless there was an advantageous outcome for the Wests Tigers,” Hagipantelis said.

“At the end of the day if a player comes to you and asks to be released in the manner Josh approached the club, his remaining at the club comes untenable.

“It wasn’t simply a matter of the player approaching the club and asking for the release. There was another level introduced into it — it was publicly reported that he threatened to never pull on the jersey again.

“The jersey has a certain intrinsic value that every supporter understands. It became clear from the outset that him remaining at the Tigers was untenable.

“What we have done is release a player who did not want to play for the Wests Tigers, we have secured a player who does want to play for the Wests Tigers, and there has been a financial accommodation with two of the clubs which serves the interest of the Wests Tigers.

“So we held firm and we fulfilled out expectations as to how it was going to pan out. I think from a Wests Tigers fan and member perspective you should be proud with the way the club dealt with this situation.”

Aloiai was at Manly’s Narrabeen headquarters on Monday, having made an immediate switch to the Sea Eagles after being released fro the final year of his contract with the Tigers.

Ofahengaue, whose deal will be paid in part by the Brisbane Broncos, is yet to begin training with the Tigers, although he is expected to join his new teammates later this week.

“Did Josh get what he wanted? Yes, he got released,” Hagipantelis said.
“Did the Wests Tigers set the conditions on which the release would be granted? Yes we did. Were those conditions fulfilled? Yes, they were.

“We had a player that made it very clear he didn’t want to play with us. I ask rhetorically, why would any fan or member want that player to remain?”

Asked wether he had a parting message for Aloiai, Hagipantelis said: “I just wish Josh all the very best. I hope he takes a moment to think about some of the more intemperate remarks he made about the Wests Tigers and that he may think better of them moving forward.

“I would hope he cherishes his time at the Wests Tigers and this incident hasn’t soured any of that.”

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/nrl/wests-tigers-boss-says-club-is-no-soft-touch/news-story/2ea652a1c82931799bd3aee962cf171b

So not only are we a snowflake team we now hand out instruction manuals - “how to leave Wests Tigers if you are disgruntled”. What happens next time Lee when no props are available? Is it untenable then?

You can paint this result anyway you choose but in the end .... it’s the WT club, the Board its Chairman and the coaching staff that received the compensation and replacement player which they wanted. So satisfactory result as far as I can see.
Nothing to throw mud about.

I don’t hate the outcome but I’m disappointed in the way it leaves us open to Adam Douehi or LL doing the exact same thing.

Well so is the rest of the clubs in the league. Nothing will change until the NRL puts some effort into this problem and implements some serious rules and penalties to prevent this situation in the future.
And don’t get me started about that other elephant in the room (salary cap and player payments) that is always in too hard basket for the NRL, the clubs and the players association to get serious about.
They have these cast of thousands committees forever banging on about one or two referees and what not whilst ignoring these two priorities areas which turn ..... fans of the game like us ..... from the game in increasing numbers.

Parra enforced the Utoikamanu contract
Penrith are enforcing the Laurie contract
Dragons didn’t let Saab go this year
Gold Coast enforced Jai Arrow
Penrith are keeping Burton
Frizell stayed at Stgeorge
Melbourne / Josh Addo Carr
Etc

Why are we the snowflakes??

Edit: also agree with your salary cap commentary, I enjoy watching the NFL more these days with the draft-transfer rules being much more equitable.

We achieved a positive outcome. You seem to have difficulty comprehending that.

1. I’m calling the outcome satisfactory until it plays out but on this occasion the club managed to secure a decent prop - lucky there was one available.

2. I’m unhappy because I still think it will happen again, potentially when AD or LL get sick of whatever it is going wrong at the place. Lee has basically stated that in the media today, if you say you don’t want to play for the jersey we’ll release you (no matter how much you’re needed because it’s untenable).

3. People seem to get upset on here when I criticise the club, we’ve missed finals for going on a decade, questions have to be asked.

You obviously have inside info on AD and Lucy wanting to sook and ask for a release. You keep mentioning these two players only.

Don't think you could have picked two worse players to fit your scenario myself.

I'll tell you what is wrong with the place, Simple: Sooky little players that come here, put in one a half a good year, get a swelled head and want more money at all costs.

How do you stop it? At club level you can't, it's an NRL problem.

We can get rid of the sooks though, when it is to our advantage. In both those cases we came out better off.

We’re always the victim aren’t we.

I Picked those 2 players as I enjoy watching them play - as I did with Matto and Aloiai.

FYI - That’s why other clubs chase them too

 

[BAGNF05]

Wests Tigers boss says club is no soft touch

BRENT READ
6:05PM NOVEMBER 30, 2020

Josh Aloiai slipped into a Manly jersey on Monday as Wests Tigers chair Lee Hagipantelis insisted the club had shown they were no longer a soft touch with their handling of his controversial move to the Sea Eagles.

Hagipantelis had threatened to make Aloiai mow the lawns at Leichhardt and Campbelltown unless the club reached an agreement with Manly that was acceptable to the Tigers.

The Tigers eventually allowed him to leave, but only after they received financial compensation from the Sea Eagles and signing Brisbane and Queensland forward Joe Ofahengaue to fill the void created by Aloiai’s departure.

The Tigers have been branded pushovers in the past, but Hagipantelis insists they showed with their handling of Aloiai that they would no longer be an easy mark.

“I said we would not be releasing him unless there was an advantageous outcome for the Wests Tigers,” Hagipantelis said.

“At the end of the day if a player comes to you and asks to be released in the manner Josh approached the club, his remaining at the club comes untenable.

“It wasn’t simply a matter of the player approaching the club and asking for the release. There was another level introduced into it — it was publicly reported that he threatened to never pull on the jersey again.

“The jersey has a certain intrinsic value that every supporter understands. It became clear from the outset that him remaining at the Tigers was untenable.

“What we have done is release a player who did not want to play for the Wests Tigers, we have secured a player who does want to play for the Wests Tigers, and there has been a financial accommodation with two of the clubs which serves the interest of the Wests Tigers.

“So we held firm and we fulfilled out expectations as to how it was going to pan out. I think from a Wests Tigers fan and member perspective you should be proud with the way the club dealt with this situation.”

Aloiai was at Manly’s Narrabeen headquarters on Monday, having made an immediate switch to the Sea Eagles after being released fro the final year of his contract with the Tigers.

Ofahengaue, whose deal will be paid in part by the Brisbane Broncos, is yet to begin training with the Tigers, although he is expected to join his new teammates later this week.

“Did Josh get what he wanted? Yes, he got released,” Hagipantelis said.
“Did the Wests Tigers set the conditions on which the release would be granted? Yes we did. Were those conditions fulfilled? Yes, they were.

“We had a player that made it very clear he didn’t want to play with us. I ask rhetorically, why would any fan or member want that player to remain?”

Asked wether he had a parting message for Aloiai, Hagipantelis said: “I just wish Josh all the very best. I hope he takes a moment to think about some of the more intemperate remarks he made about the Wests Tigers and that he may think better of them moving forward.

“I would hope he cherishes his time at the Wests Tigers and this incident hasn’t soured any of that.”

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/nrl/wests-tigers-boss-says-club-is-no-soft-touch/news-story/2ea652a1c82931799bd3aee962cf171b

So not only are we a snowflake team we now hand out instruction manuals - “how to leave Wests Tigers if you are disgruntled”. What happens next time Lee when no props are available? Is it untenable then?

You can paint this result anyway you choose but in the end .... it’s the WT club, the Board its Chairman and the coaching staff that received the compensation and replacement player which they wanted. So satisfactory result as far as I can see.
Nothing to throw mud about.

I don’t hate the outcome but I’m disappointed in the way it leaves us open to Adam Douehi or LL doing the exact same thing.

Well so is the rest of the clubs in the league. Nothing will change until the NRL puts some effort into this problem and implements some serious rules and penalties to prevent this situation in the future.
And don’t get me started about that other elephant in the room (salary cap and player payments) that is always in too hard basket for the NRL, the clubs and the players association to get serious about.
They have these cast of thousands committees forever banging on about one or two referees and what not whilst ignoring these two priorities areas which turn ..... fans of the game like us ..... from the game in increasing numbers.

Parra enforced the Utoikamanu contract
Penrith are enforcing the Laurie contract
Dragons didn’t let Saab go this year
Gold Coast enforced Jai Arrow
Penrith are keeping Burton
Frizell stayed at Stgeorge
Melbourne / Josh Addo Carr
Etc

Why are we the snowflakes??

Edit: also agree with your salary cap commentary, I enjoy watching the NFL more these days with the draft-transfer rules being much more equitable.

We achieved a positive outcome. You seem to have difficulty comprehending that.


Exactly, in difficult circumstances, the Club at all levels has performed really well and improved the position of the club, squad and team and looked good in the media whilst doing it. All of the things we have been asking of management for a long time. There are some here though with an intrenched agenda against the management of the club and in the face of MASSIVE cognitive dissonance it is doing their heads in.

LOL

 

[Tiger5150]

Not to be contentious, but there are some valid points getting lost in semantics.
We've witnessed the degradation of the club, team and our image for over a decade and those quoting the club's inability to "put their foot down" should be entitled to express this on the forum, without receiving such hostility.
I also share some of this view.
It's fantastic that we've managed to recuperate or recover however it's still frustrating as hell to watch players quite capably force the hand of our club.

People stating we're on a road to nowhere until the NRL fix this may be accurate but I recall the same type of arguments about clubs getting away with rorting, so why can't this conversation be explored in the same capacity.
Teams have adjusted their operations and methods, and are more strategic in counterattacking this specifically.
So could @trippa101 AND @BAGNF05 simply be making an attempt to open the conversation with how we can manage it from within the club?

No problem with anyone posting their opinion but if it’s not based on facts, like Bagnf05 claim that Lee leaked Aloiais comments to the media then they can and should be pulled up.

It’s a public forum. Discussion of opposing opinions is the territory and healthy but it’s not healthy when people make things up to push an agenda.

Where did I make a claim of Lee leaking? I referred to his quote in the media “it becomes untenable when a player states they do not want to play for the Wests Tigers jersey”

That’s an instruction to any player hoping to take up a better offer.

My genuine apology. I got you mixed up with @Telltails , you didnt say that. Got your name mixed in because Lauren had quoted you in the post I was replying to.

My point remains the same, but with his name rather than yours.

 

[earl]

I’m open to being proven wrong - and I hope I am for the clubs sake but, and I can only talk from my experience in business dealing with people, negotiating etc and from my experience with Justin, personally, and now seeing what Lee is saying in the media… It’s just not a professional look for the club.

Do you think you are some special person who has special negotiating skills and somehow key inside knowledge ?

 

[BAGNF05]

We wouldn't have released Josh if we didn't have Joe or someone of a similar stature lined up. The way it worked out this time was very convenient for us and stopped things getting nasty. It usually doesn't happen that conveniently.
If Joffa had a;ready signed elsewhere and there was a real gap in the market for decent props then a simple transfer fee wouldn't have been enough to get a release as our squad as a whole would have been worse off. I have no doubt we would have forced Aloiai to be present yesterday if no replacement had yet been provided or sourced.

And that’s exactly what Lee needed to indicate yesterday but instead he dribbled.

 

[earl]

Don’t really think we will have much success until we make a change at the Top.

So if we change Pascoe we will be a top tier team ? Does that sound realistic ?

 

[earl]

@strongee - understand your point of view. I just have a different one. As I said, and these are only my opinions, if they seem strong it's because they are, like all of us we believe we are right until someone provides a different point of view that we believe in.

I'm open to being proven wrong - and I hope I am for the clubs sake but, and I can only talk from my experience in business dealing with people, negotiating etc and from my experience with Justin, personally, and now seeing what Lee is saying in the media... It's just not a professional look for the club.

There is a reason why we are probably in the bottom 4 of how the industry (players, agents, journos, other administrators etc) views administration.

I am not fuelled by my desire to be right - just look at how our back office has performed for the last 5 years... Do you think we are a desirable club to come to? Do you think other clubs think we are a serious force behind the scenes? Do you think we are deemed a "power club"? I don't - but thats just my opinion.

Once again mate not true . We are leading the way in the corporate world , we have a reputation for always coming 9th , which isn’t bottom 4 at all , our facilities come the end of next year will be the best in the game , we have one of the best coaches , and now one of the best junior bases , as we’ve gone on a recruitment drive the last few years .
We are one of only a few profitable teams , a huge supporter base . I could literally go on .
The only thing where you are close to truthful is public perception , mainly because Murdoch media has been driving a campaign against us for years .

Here is the thing. I don't see us as being so bad. Sure we need better on field results but we aren't like the worst team in existence or anywhere near it. We are a middle of the range team.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

Don’t really think we will have much success until we make a change at the Top.

So if we change Pascoe we will be a top tier team ? Does that sound realistic ?

Yep think it would make a big difference and appoint a chairman that is not hands on with sponsorship as well.
Changes in any organization bring fresh ideas.

 

[twentyforty]

Has our image, team and whatnot not suffered?
This is what I meant about semantics. People will sit on here and criticise others for applying opinion over fact, but will often reply in the same manner.
The fact is we have had a poor image and no opinion can dispute that.
Wasn’t really suggesting discussing all mechanisms or whatever, however like I said about the salary cap talk.

You keep stating your opinion as fact. I don't know what you mean by we have a poor image and I don't care. I don't think we do have a poor image at all. If we were a bikie gang I might believe you.

My point being that you have to talk about specific scenarios to state how did that specific issue turn out and offer an opinion on that issue. I'm not agreeing that the JA/JO issue was well handled. I'm also not stating the club is a mess. I'm yet to hear any critical information that means the club is as bad as you are implying.

The biggest fact that I've heard on hear was McIntyre not being re-signed. If this is the biggest issue the club has we are doing great.

Not to be be funny or rude but us not making the 8 for over a decade is nothing to do with my opinion.
Same applies to the other factors - the results are the more accurate indicator. So you can't really deny our struggles in these areas.

Probably should've clarified I feel we're on the up and my original post wasn't to pinpoint incompetence from our end, but rather to open the dialogue as to whether we can counterattack it - which is I why I specifically brought up the salary cap stuff.

Lauren, I agree with your dominant point. Putting forward an idea or opinion that makes sense is too often opposed, not by better opinions, but by linguistic wrestling. A point lost on some. ?

 

[yeti]

Don’t really think we will have much success until we make a change at the Top.

So if we change Pascoe we will be a top tier team ? Does that sound realistic ?


Yep think it would make a big difference and appoint a chairman that is not hands on with sponsorship as well.
Changes in any organization bring fresh ideas.

Changes? Lee's only been here 5 minutes! Hardly stale. Pascoe .... meh. Happy for him to hang around for another year and see how it unfolds.

 

[BAGNF05]

Not to be contentious, but there are some valid points getting lost in semantics.
We’ve witnessed the degradation of the club, team and our image for over a decade and those quoting the club’s inability to “put their foot down” should be entitled to express this on the forum, without receiving such hostility.
I also share some of this view.
It’s fantastic that we’ve managed to recuperate or recover however it’s still frustrating as hell to watch players quite capably force the hand of our club.

My point is some folks are arguing it's only about Tigers. Yes it's frustrating to watch players force the hand of a club - any club.

Frankly I'm almost as frustrated about Josh A as I am about Suaalii, who has manipulated Souths into a release to Roosters. My reason for this is I was never a super Josh A fan and I thoroughly detest the Roosters, so the two events have equivalence to me.

Tigers don't win enough football games, that's the centrepoint of all this nonsense. You can't be a strong club if you don't win football games. Obviously the Catch-22 is you struggle to win football games if you aren't a strong club.

Some of our fans complain every time the club endures a challenge. Challenges are commonplace for teams that don't win enough football. So there's a lot of complaining. But in my opinion it very quickly ceases to be constructive commentary, it simply becomes whinging borne out of a desire to magically win more football.

So in respect to "winning more football". I think Tigers management are on the right path. The loss of Aloiai is another challenging step in the long haul of bringing Tigers out of the losers circle. It's an art, not a science.

It's interesting you say "degradation of the club, team and image for over a decade" - I find that to be of very short memory to be honest. When has Tigers ever had a prominent or admirable image or reputation? For about 3 seasons yes. The rest of the seasons have been a long litany of bad decisions and weak performances. To say nothing of the Terry Lamb era, the post-Sheens failures, the backstabbing of Ivan Cleary etc.

Madge, Pascoe, Hartigan, they are about forging a respectable Tigers identity. IMO we've never really had a positive image to lose, so consistent has our inability been to play finals football.

But I see in 2020 more "light at the end of the tunnel", IMO, than I have in the past decade (since 2011/2012). Good foundations, smart roster management, strong coach, a flood of targeted junior purchases (nationally, not just beholden to our own geography), increased sponsorship, increased memberships.

The downside has been the constant media scrutiny and that only seems to get worse. But the scrutiny in the media applies to all battling clubs not just Tigers - Bulldogs, Dragons, Manly, Titans don't have it any better. So I ignore the media stuff, because it has nothing to do with winning football. Whether or not Lee was soft, or whether he should or should not have said certain things doesn't impact winning football.

Josh A can agitate all he likes, he's not the difference between winning or losing in 2021. He is REPLACEABLE.

Great post.