Joe Ofahengaue #240

[Deleted member 3518]

I dont know why this was deleted but ill tone it back a bit ?

Look none of us really know whether JO will be a better player next year than JA - until we see how they go next year. But for those that think our management our top notch compared to the rest of the NRL is probably symptomatic of the mediocrity we have let set in.

JAC did a backflip we get Roberts (who no one wanted) - again maybe he turns out to be a great buy for us next year (I hope so) but after the fiasco of Latrell Mitchell , we made the same mistake and left the club vulnerable to reputational damage - which it did. Since Lee has been front and centre of recruitment both LM and JAC backflipped… and then they think fans are dumb enough to think Roberts is a great result… c’mon.

JA says he will never put on a tigers Jersey and our Chairman says “he will be here mowing the grass” ,
, then in another article says “it was untenable when he made those statements so he couldn’t have stayed”… completely contradicted his previous statement… yes we got a financial reward… that’s the least we should have got.

And for @strongee who said we are profitable so that makes our admin better - when I sat down with Justin, THE DAY TEDESCO WAS LEAVING, and told him what a joke it was that 3 of our best players had just left and what a poor job Marina had done… you know what he told me… WE ARE PROFITABLE NOW BC OF MARINA (corporate sponsors) AND IN GOOD SHAPE… in his mind they had done a good job… that’s the level of competence...

Yes we have great nursery, big fan base, post a profit etc… and!!!

We come ninth and cant recruit any top line talent because we aren’t respected as a club. The facts speak for themselves.

The club can sugar coat it any way it likes. If our club offered another player the same money as another club I think our club might only beat the Warriors bc of travel. Who else?

But we have a big nursery, big fan base , premiership wining coach, COE on the way, and post a profit ....

With all those things you mentioned we should be a power club… the fact we aren’t goes to my point… our admin is average… they can't sell the dream... it’s like giving a footy team all the best facilities and training equipment but if they aren’t that good than they won’t beat teams who have better players who train in the mud.

Seriously ? How hard is it to get it through to you , that this takes time .? You’ve clearly got an agenda , you think you’re right , when I’ve shown you why you’re wrong . All you have is emotion , and rhetoric . Which is awesome . But it’s clouding your judgment .
I’ve said what I had to say mate . None of your arguements wash in 2020 . And being profitable is literally one of the only mandates the clubs have to adhere to , as the funding from the NRL was put in place as such , that if a club isn’t profitable and goes bankrupt the NRL won’t bail anyone out .
Winning starts in the back room. So we’ve fixed our money issues , fixed our corporate issues , fixed our training facilities , fixed our recruitment strategies , fixed our development ... seriously all that’s left is winning in the NRL. Which can’t happen until the kids take a step up , and the players perform . It’s up to them and Madge. Is . To constantly bag the club shows more about you , then the club IMO.

 

[Speed2burn]

You’re seeing what you want to see mate

So are you.

Matterson “I want to go to a club where I can win a premiership” 10 months later playing in a preliminary final.

He’s a flog, but I rest my case.

Translation “I hate hard work, I’m self entitled and I deserve more money”

Matterson played better in tigers colours, made 18th man in origin. This year he didn’t even the 30 man squad lol

Yeah Parra made the semis. But they were also knocked out in straight sets quite convincingly. Light years away from winning a premiership.

Time will tell about Aloiai aswell. I don’t think it’s hard to look good when you have plodders like Huth, Packer, Garner etc around you

 

[yoyoyoyo]

@strongee - time will tell ... hopefully you're right.... I suspect that we will not win a premiership with Justin and Lee at the helm.... can't change one's ability to negotiate.... its not just up to the kids... its up to our ability to recruit the best players as well .... the fact that we are relying on juniors proves my point... if we had fixed all the issues you talked about we would be able to recruit the players we wanted.... we cant't... if you think the club is in a strong position than that shows the difference in our standards. All the best mate

 

[cochise]

@strongee - time will tell ... hopefully you're right.... I suspect that we will not win a premiership with Justin and Lee at the helm.... can't change one's ability to negotiate.... its not just up to the kids... its up to our ability to recruit the best players as well .... the fact that we are relying on juniors proves my point... if we had fixed all the issues you talked about we would be able to recruit the players we wanted.... we cant't... if you think the club is in a strong position than that shows the difference in our standards. All the best mate

There are still issues of perception that come from before we started to turn things around. The football side of things will come, Justin and Lee are not the main negotiators at the club. We are starting to make the right decisions in regards to recruitment and retention and Aloiai was an example of that. We will not be paying overs for a player as that damages your ability to field a competitive squad.

 

[Tiger_Steve]

I smell a Rat, I believe Josh Aloia is loyal, maybe he didn't like the way we let Thompson, Benji and Sam McIntyre go and I'm pretty sure ET and Matt Eisenhuth were his mates. Hard to say. I've chatted to JA and he seems to be a really nice guy with strong religious beliefs, I think there's more to it than money, but as they say money talks and players walk. I'll miss the big guy. The only upside to all this is we picked up a handy forward from the ponies and we got some cash back from manly. I hope that our coach can unify our team in 2021 by playing hard ball with the players but throw in regular team bonding stuff that gets everyone laughing and enjoying training thus building a tight unit.

Totally off the Mark mate. I know for a fact it was all about the dollars. And the 24 hour talk was absolute garbage. He had an offer sitting for 2 weeks. He wanted crazy money and we don’t play that game any more.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

@strongee - time will tell ... hopefully you're right.... I suspect that we will not win a premiership with Justin and Lee at the helm.... can't change one's ability to negotiate.... its not just up to the kids... its up to our ability to recruit the best players as well .... the fact that we are relying on juniors proves my point... if we had fixed all the issues you talked about we would be able to recruit the players we wanted.... we cant't... if you think the club is in a strong position than that shows the difference in our standards. All the best mate

You don’t have to recruit “stars” though . In fact of the past few premiership teams , really it’s the roosters ...: and no one else , who adopt that strategy. Every other team, developed thier players and brought in complimentary pieces to fit around them . Even Penrith all thier recruited players , you’d hardly call stars , same as Melbourne . The players are out there, it’s about being smarter and not being attracted to the shiny new toy . Which I honestly believe with Madge , hartigan and yes warren McDonnell , we have the right team in place . Lee and Pascoe worry about running the business , which is thier job .

 

[TigerWest]

@strongee - time will tell ... hopefully you're right.... I suspect that we will not win a premiership with Justin and Lee at the helm.... can't change one's ability to negotiate.... its not just up to the kids... its up to our ability to recruit the best players as well .... the fact that we are relying on juniors proves my point... if we had fixed all the issues you talked about we would be able to recruit the players we wanted.... we cant't... if you think the club is in a strong position than that shows the difference in our standards. All the best mate

You are aware we have a recruitment team led by Adam Hartigan (ex Easts Recruitment) aren't you. Justin certainly signs off on the contract, but it is all done before he gets involved.

I think our management is heading us in the right direction.

 

[TigerWest]

You’re seeing what you want to see mate

So are you.

Matterson “I want to go to a club where I can win a premiership” 10 months later playing in a preliminary final.

He’s a flog, but I rest my case.

Translation “I hate hard work, I’m self entitled and I deserve more money”

Matterson played better in tigers colours, made 18th man in origin. This year he didn’t even the 30 man squad lol

Yeah Parra made the semis. But they were also knocked out in straight sets quite convincingly. Light years away from winning a premiership.

Time will tell about Aloiai aswell. I don’t think it’s hard to look good when you have plodders like Huth, Packer, Garner etc around you

It's a good point about JA last season, he was basically the last man standing with all the injuries, he had to look good in that situation.

 

[BAGNF05]

I’ve heard it said many times by respectable minds before that it usually takes 100 games for a player to become a consistent NRL player. So to all those banging on about our youth policy being the saviour, we probably have at least four years to wait for any sustained success, after 9 years of mediocrity, and that’s if we have selected the right youth with a winning mindset. Not sure whether our management team or head coach have that many lives left TBH. A lot will come down to our war chest in 2022 and signing some actual NRL quality.

 

[Tiger5150]

Not to be contentious, but there are some valid points getting lost in semantics.
We've witnessed the degradation of the club, team and our image for over a decade and those quoting the club's inability to "put their foot down" should be entitled to express this on the forum, without receiving such hostility.
I also share some of this view.
It's fantastic that we've managed to recuperate or recover however it's still frustrating as hell to watch players quite capably force the hand of our club.

People stating we're on a road to nowhere until the NRL fix this may be accurate but I recall the same type of arguments about clubs getting away with rorting, so why can't this conversation be explored in the same capacity.
Teams have adjusted their operations and methods, and are more strategic in counterattacking this specifically.
So could @trippa101 AND @BAGNF05 simply be making an attempt to open the conversation with how we can manage it from within the club?

No problem with anyone posting their opinion but if it’s not based on facts, like Bagnf05 claim that Lee leaked Aloiais comments to the media then they can and should be pulled up.

It’s a public forum. Discussion of opposing opinions is the territory and healthy but it’s not healthy when people make things up to push an agenda.

Where did I make a claim of Lee leaking? I referred to his quote in the media “it becomes untenable when a player states they do not want to play for the Wests Tigers jersey”

That’s an instruction to any player hoping to take up a better offer.


My genuine apology. I got you mixed up with @Telltails , you didnt say that. Got your name mixed in because Lauren had quoted you in the post I was replying to.

My point remains the same, but with his name rather than yours.

Just to confirm I never once said Lee leaked anything.


Your exact words were ***"He should never of shared what JA reportedly said with the media."***

The media already knew and asked Lee about it. HE DIDNT SHARE IT WITH THEM.

He did share information about the rumour never suggested he leaked it -,a big difference. He confirmed what was originally a rumour by an anonymous source to the media and in doing so shared it with a bigger audience than WTs forum. That was the point I was making. A bit over you coming at me because I don't have the same opinion as you, and whats with the passive aggressive capitals?

Forget it. I am more than happy not to converse with someone who does not even have the integrity and conviction to stand by his own words.

The capitals are not passive aggressive (I dont do passive). They were merely an attempt to get you to acknowledge the most obvious of blatant facts but you wont because for you following your agenda is more important that actually looking at what the facts are and having a discussion. You are not capable, too wed to your agenda. Have fun.

 

[earl]

You’re seeing what you want to see mate

So are you.

Matterson “I want to go to a club where I can win a premiership” 10 months later playing in a preliminary final.

He’s a flog, but I rest my case.

I'm laughing at this one. That is a pretty poor way to rest your case. That doesn't go anywhere near proving that Wests Tigers are a rabble or incompetently managed.

I don't view Matterson leaving as being about the club being incompetently managed. If anything he just proves to me how hard it is to manage contracts within the NRL.

One point that I would agree with is that if you are a winning footy team it's easier to hold onto the players that you want too. That doesn't mean you get it right. If you look at Penrith they are a winning footy team but let's see how they manage their success going forward.

Just to expand, for a relatively young guy to make an assertion that WT are not heading towards success after an already very long run of poor performance, I have to conclude that there are some issues within the club.

...and you do understand that WT is in the business of winning football games? Our competence in this area is surely in question.

You gotta get some better ammo. What issues ? Why does Matterson stating that mean anything at all other than he wants more money.

Yes we have to win footy games. I get that. That isn't the problem. The problem is that you and others keep asserting that management is incompetent or there are some big issues but you can't articulate those issues clearly, rationally and objectively.

We agree completely that the more games we win the better.

 

[Telltails]

Not to be contentious, but there are some valid points getting lost in semantics.
We've witnessed the degradation of the club, team and our image for over a decade and those quoting the club's inability to "put their foot down" should be entitled to express this on the forum, without receiving such hostility.
I also share some of this view.
It's fantastic that we've managed to recuperate or recover however it's still frustrating as hell to watch players quite capably force the hand of our club.

People stating we're on a road to nowhere until the NRL fix this may be accurate but I recall the same type of arguments about clubs getting away with rorting, so why can't this conversation be explored in the same capacity.
Teams have adjusted their operations and methods, and are more strategic in counterattacking this specifically.
So could @trippa101 AND @BAGNF05 simply be making an attempt to open the conversation with how we can manage it from within the club?

No problem with anyone posting their opinion but if it’s not based on facts, like Bagnf05 claim that Lee leaked Aloiais comments to the media then they can and should be pulled up.

It’s a public forum. Discussion of opposing opinions is the territory and healthy but it’s not healthy when people make things up to push an agenda.

Where did I make a claim of Lee leaking? I referred to his quote in the media “it becomes untenable when a player states they do not want to play for the Wests Tigers jersey”

That’s an instruction to any player hoping to take up a better offer.


My genuine apology. I got you mixed up with @Telltails , you didnt say that. Got your name mixed in because Lauren had quoted you in the post I was replying to.

My point remains the same, but with his name rather than yours.

Just to confirm I never once said Lee leaked anything.


Your exact words were ***"He should never of shared what JA reportedly said with the media."***

The media already knew and asked Lee about it. HE DIDNT SHARE IT WITH THEM.

He did share information about the rumour never suggested he leaked it -,a big difference. He confirmed what was originally a rumour by an anonymous source to the media and in doing so shared it with a bigger audience than WTs forum. That was the point I was making. A bit over you coming at me because I don't have the same opinion as you, and whats with the passive aggressive capitals?


Forget it. I am more than happy not to converse with someone who does not even have the integrity and conviction to stand by his own words.

I stand by everything thing I said. He spoke to the media about the situation and confirmed the rumour - hence sharing information. Never once said he leaked it. Your arrogance and attitude of superiority toward anyone who does not share your views is clouding your ability to engage in rational discussion. To resort to low blows about someone's integrity - have a look in the mirror.

 

[mike]

I smell a Rat, I believe Josh Aloia is loyal, maybe he didn't like the way we let Thompson, Benji and Sam McIntyre go and I'm pretty sure ET and Matt Eisenhuth were his mates. Hard to say. I've chatted to JA and he seems to be a really nice guy with strong religious beliefs, I think there's more to it than money, but as they say money talks and players walk. I'll miss the big guy. The only upside to all this is we picked up a handy forward from the ponies and we got some cash back from manly. I hope that our coach can unify our team in 2021 by playing hard ball with the players but throw in regular team bonding stuff that gets everyone laughing and enjoying training thus building a tight unit.

Totally off the Mark mate. I know for a fact it was all about the dollars. And the 24 hour talk was absolute garbage. He had an offer sitting for 2 weeks. He wanted crazy money and we don’t play that game any more.

The rat in all this is money. He wanted it and got it, just not at the Wests Tigers. End of story.

 

[Geo]

I smell a Rat, I believe Josh Aloia is loyal, maybe he didn't like the way we let Thompson, Benji and Sam McIntyre go and I'm pretty sure ET and Matt Eisenhuth were his mates. Hard to say. I've chatted to JA and he seems to be a really nice guy with strong religious beliefs, I think there's more to it than money, but as they say money talks and players walk. I'll miss the big guy. The only upside to all this is we picked up a handy forward from the ponies and we got some cash back from manly. I hope that our coach can unify our team in 2021 by playing hard ball with the players but throw in regular team bonding stuff that gets everyone laughing and enjoying training thus building a tight unit.

Totally off the Mark mate. I know for a fact it was all about the dollars. And the 24 hour talk was absolute garbage. He had an offer sitting for 2 weeks. He wanted crazy money and we don’t play that game any more.


The rat in all this is money. He wanted it and got it, just not at the Wests Tigers. End of story.

On top off that the money from Manly wasn’t there unless he got the release...

This is what the NRL need address...

 

[Tiger5150]

Not to be contentious, but there are some valid points getting lost in semantics.
We've witnessed the degradation of the club, team and our image for over a decade and those quoting the club's inability to "put their foot down" should be entitled to express this on the forum, without receiving such hostility.
I also share some of this view.
It's fantastic that we've managed to recuperate or recover however it's still frustrating as hell to watch players quite capably force the hand of our club.

People stating we're on a road to nowhere until the NRL fix this may be accurate but I recall the same type of arguments about clubs getting away with rorting, so why can't this conversation be explored in the same capacity.
Teams have adjusted their operations and methods, and are more strategic in counterattacking this specifically.
So could @trippa101 AND @BAGNF05 simply be making an attempt to open the conversation with how we can manage it from within the club?

No problem with anyone posting their opinion but if it’s not based on facts, like Bagnf05 claim that Lee leaked Aloiais comments to the media then they can and should be pulled up.

It’s a public forum. Discussion of opposing opinions is the territory and healthy but it’s not healthy when people make things up to push an agenda.

Where did I make a claim of Lee leaking? I referred to his quote in the media “it becomes untenable when a player states they do not want to play for the Wests Tigers jersey”

That’s an instruction to any player hoping to take up a better offer.


My genuine apology. I got you mixed up with @Telltails , you didnt say that. Got your name mixed in because Lauren had quoted you in the post I was replying to.

My point remains the same, but with his name rather than yours.

Just to confirm I never once said Lee leaked anything.


Your exact words were ***"He should never of shared what JA reportedly said with the media."***

The media already knew and asked Lee about it. HE DIDNT SHARE IT WITH THEM.

He did share information about the rumour never suggested he leaked it -,a big difference. He confirmed what was originally a rumour by an anonymous source to the media and in doing so shared it with a bigger audience than WTs forum. That was the point I was making. A bit over you coming at me because I don't have the same opinion as you, and whats with the passive aggressive capitals?


Forget it. I am more than happy not to converse with someone who does not even have the integrity and conviction to stand by his own words.

***I stand by everything thing I said***. He spoke to the media about the situation and confirmed the rumour - hence sharing information. Never once said he leaked it. Your arrogance and attitude of superiority toward anyone who does not share your views is clouding your ability to engage in rational discussion. To resort to low blows about someone's integrity - have a look in the mirror.

***"He should never of shared what JA reportedly said with the media."***

You get offended if I question your integrity and then say *"I stand by everything I said"*. I will call a spade a spade. You said he SHARED what JA said with the media. You cannot SHARE something with someone if they already have it. The media already had the information, this has been shown as fact and they went to Lee for his response. You can not SHARE something with someone if they already have it.

You were wrong, plain and simple and thats not the end of the world. I do it all the time here, had to apologise yesterday to Bagf05 for it. But instead of standing by what you said, you try to twist and turn some rubbish about "he spoke to the media about it" (after being asked a question about it) to weazel around it. This is the opposite of intergity. Im sorry if calling your lack of integrity offended you. Might I suggest that in future you act with some integrity, like ACTUALLY standing by your own words.

As far as looking in the mirror.....yesterday I made a clear error getting you confused with Bagf05. Immediately put my hands up and apologised, he accepted in good faith and I can continue a principled discussion with him. Im pretty good with whats in the mirror.

 

[earl]

I smell a Rat, I believe Josh Aloia is loyal, maybe he didn't like the way we let Thompson, Benji and Sam McIntyre go and I'm pretty sure ET and Matt Eisenhuth were his mates. Hard to say. I've chatted to JA and he seems to be a really nice guy with strong religious beliefs, I think there's more to it than money, but as they say money talks and players walk. I'll miss the big guy. The only upside to all this is we picked up a handy forward from the ponies and we got some cash back from manly. I hope that our coach can unify our team in 2021 by playing hard ball with the players but throw in regular team bonding stuff that gets everyone laughing and enjoying training thus building a tight unit.

Totally off the Mark mate. I know for a fact it was all about the dollars. And the 24 hour talk was absolute garbage. He had an offer sitting for 2 weeks. He wanted crazy money and we don’t play that game any more.


The rat in all this is money. He wanted it and got it, just not at the Wests Tigers. End of story.

On top off that the money from Manly wasn’t there unless he got the release...

This is what the NRL need address...

The NRL needs to look at contracts and do something about them. Some of it has to be to protect clubs as well. I'm not sure if contracts longer than 2 seasons should be allowed. We've signed some dud long term contracts which we have to hold because no one is going to give us any relief on those deals and yet the decent deals we have we have to fold.

 

[Tiger5150]

Not to be contentious, but there are some valid points getting lost in semantics.
We've witnessed the degradation of the club, team and our image for over a decade and those quoting the club's inability to "put their foot down" should be entitled to express this on the forum, without receiving such hostility.
I also share some of this view.
It's fantastic that we've managed to recuperate or recover however it's still frustrating as hell to watch players quite capably force the hand of our club.

People stating we're on a road to nowhere until the NRL fix this may be accurate but I recall the same type of arguments about clubs getting away with rorting, so why can't this conversation be explored in the same capacity.
Teams have adjusted their operations and methods, and are more strategic in counterattacking this specifically.
So could @trippa101 AND @BAGNF05 simply be making an attempt to open the conversation with how we can manage it from within the club?

No problem with anyone posting their opinion but if it’s not based on facts, like Bagnf05 claim that Lee leaked Aloiais comments to the media then they can and should be pulled up.

It’s a public forum. Discussion of opposing opinions is the territory and healthy but it’s not healthy when people make things up to push an agenda.

Where did I make a claim of Lee leaking? I referred to his quote in the media “it becomes untenable when a player states they do not want to play for the Wests Tigers jersey”

That’s an instruction to any player hoping to take up a better offer.


My genuine apology. I got you mixed up with @Telltails , you didnt say that. Got your name mixed in because Lauren had quoted you in the post I was replying to.

My point remains the same, but with his name rather than yours.

Just to confirm I never once said Lee leaked anything.


Your exact words were ***"He should never of shared what JA reportedly said with the media."***

The media already knew and asked Lee about it. HE DIDNT SHARE IT WITH THEM.

He did share information about the rumour never suggested he leaked it -,a big difference. He confirmed what was originally a rumour by an anonymous source to the media and in doing so shared it with a bigger audience than WTs forum. That was the point I was making. A bit over you coming at me because I don't have the same opinion as you, and whats with the passive aggressive capitals?


Forget it. I am more than happy not to converse with someone who does not even have the integrity and conviction to stand by his own words.

I stand by everything thing I said. He spoke to the media about the situation and confirmed the rumour - hence sharing information. Never once said he leaked it. Your arrogance and attitude of superiority toward anyone who does not share your views is clouding your ability to engage in rational discussion. To resort to low blows about someone's integrity - have a look in the mirror.

By the way, I ZERO problem with people holding opposite views to me, it happens all the time in a forum and it is what good healthy discussion is all about. I have a MASSIVE problem with people making things up to suit their agenda or narrative. That is NOT healthy and kills good interesting and constructive discussion. This is also the reason I called you out.

 

[Russell]

Not to be be funny or rude but us not making the 8 for over a decade is nothing to do with my opinion.

This is a fact. This fact though doesn't mean we are viewed poorly or management is incompetent.

A lot of these problems are just your perspective.

And the perspective of 99% of rugby league people I know

Who cares ? Seriously. It's just your assessment of people you know. I know plenty of people and the last thing they do is tell me how incompetent the Tigers management are. I have a lot of friends who are also Tigers supporters.

How many people realistically talk to you every day about how incompetent the Tigers are ? I think most people have the Tigers management ability pretty low on their priorities of things to discuss.

I'd question your sample assessment but I assume you are just using hyperbole.

I’ve been around the game all my life, as an average player at best, coach, and referee. So I know a few and I discuss it a lot. That ranges from NRL players to my wife who patrols the junior league canteen, it’s common knowledge WT are a rabble mate.

Mate which district ? I think this has a bearing on where an opinion is coming from . There’s a lot of bias and things said like the “the tigers are a rabble “ and when pressed on the whys , they come up with a story from 5-10 years ago . Once someone gets an idea in thier head , it’s very rare for people to truely be open to changing it .
This was my whole point about targeting players Not affected by our past mistakes .
I don’t see how you can say we are a rabble when we are one of the only profitable teams in the comp ? To me , manly are a rabble . The sharks are a rabble . The sharks have had a good team since the late 80s yet fall into financial hardship every 5 years . Seriously , if the sway of living in the shire wasn’t there , they would have folded years ago . They have to recruit flat out , and this last crop of juniors is thier first in like 10 years with actual talent .

Another team that’s a rabble , the warriors . Have a whole country to pick from , but can never field a winning team . Have been through 4 owners as far as I can remember , and almost went out of business , when they changed thier name to NZ.
The dogs - have way too many hands in the kitchen , and haven’t fielded a decent team in 5 years , next year will be no different .
Secret bad team ...... NQ. Haven’t won anything , without a certain JT in thier squad , have the most diehard region of football fans in the world to pick from , huge corporate support , yet consistently produce rubbish . Bleed money like crazy as well . This same description applies to the dragons as well

You need to look at things objectively. Just because , you’re having conversations inside your echo chamber doesn’t mean , that it’s a fact . All it means is everyone inside that bubble has the same hive mind .

The region I live is irrelevant mate because it’s not just hearsay, it’s week after week of player dramas, year after year of coaching issues (note I like Madge), year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope, and a relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all. Even in the recent case, when we wanted a meeting with the NRL, they said ‘in a few weeks’. Even the league shows us little respect. Nobody is making this stuff up.

I'm just quoting this to say that this to me doesn't constitute objective truth.

Point 1:- Week after week of player drama. The only player drama I have heard of in relation to our club is the Aloiai situation. This is not week after week of drama. It's rare. Other clubs are also in the news in relation to player drama all the time. Souths have had Sam Burgess. Penrith have a cocaine problem. Nth Qld have a player sleeping with a married staff member. We aren't alone in our player drama and it's definitey not something that occurs weekly.

So point 1 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 2:- Year after year of coaching issues. I don't know what you mean here. We had Cleary leave us a coupleof years ago. Do other teams lose their coaches ? Do they sack them ? How many clubs sacked their coaches this year. Did we ?

So point 2 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 3:- year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope. Yeah this sucks but to be fair you shouldn't have hope for next season.

So point 3 might be a fact but you are missing out on a key point and that is teams have finished below us every year. I don't think it's an objective fact.

Point 4:- A relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all.

This is clearly not an objective fact. It's a subjective opinion that says nothing about Wests Tigers. I mean can you even explain what a relentless stream of players means. I mean is this happening to us daily ? How do you explain players taking drugs, having sex with women and filming it and even being up on rape charges. All of this is played out in the media. Do those players respect their clubs ?

Point 5:- The NRL disrespects us because they ask to delay a meeting for a couple of weeks.

This is to me a little bizarre. I mean does this really offend you ?

So your argument is, we should be allowed to have drama because other clubs do to? Look it’s simple, we need to challenge the top eight sides on the field, play finals footy, hold onto our best young players and start recruiting some guys that aren’t on another teams scrap heap. Until then, my opinion is we’re a rabble. There’s facts in there if u look hard enough.

Part of being in this business means that there will be player drama. We are dealing with young kids in a lot of ways and some of those kids have rugby league as their ticked to a better life. It happens to all teams. You can't expect us to be different.

We do challenge the top 8 sides on the field. We aren't a walkover hence we are coming middle of the table. We aren't dead last every year consistently.

As for recruitment and retention it's hard but it's not all bad. I reckon LL and AD are close to top tier signings. We've signed some great young kids in Stef and Blore and maybe even Laurie.

I can definitely state we aren't a rabble. The club appears to be doing everything it can right. We won't know how things turn out but I don't expect to make the finals next year. I do expect to keep building a decent team.

We may also surprise on the upside next season.

It’s about expectations, obviously mine are different to yours. Statistically each team should make the eight one in every two years, we haven’t made it in 9. I expect more than dead last when I make the 4 hour round trip to the footy, which I do often.

We have never been DEAD last.

So I guess your expectations have been met.

 

[Russell]

Wests Tigers boss says club is no soft touch

BRENT READ
6:05PM NOVEMBER 30, 2020

Josh Aloiai slipped into a Manly jersey on Monday as Wests Tigers chair Lee Hagipantelis insisted the club had shown they were no longer a soft touch with their handling of his controversial move to the Sea Eagles.

Hagipantelis had threatened to make Aloiai mow the lawns at Leichhardt and Campbelltown unless the club reached an agreement with Manly that was acceptable to the Tigers.

The Tigers eventually allowed him to leave, but only after they received financial compensation from the Sea Eagles and signing Brisbane and Queensland forward Joe Ofahengaue to fill the void created by Aloiai’s departure.

The Tigers have been branded pushovers in the past, but Hagipantelis insists they showed with their handling of Aloiai that they would no longer be an easy mark.

“I said we would not be releasing him unless there was an advantageous outcome for the Wests Tigers,” Hagipantelis said.

“At the end of the day if a player comes to you and asks to be released in the manner Josh approached the club, his remaining at the club comes untenable.

“It wasn’t simply a matter of the player approaching the club and asking for the release. There was another level introduced into it — it was publicly reported that he threatened to never pull on the jersey again.

“The jersey has a certain intrinsic value that every supporter understands. It became clear from the outset that him remaining at the Tigers was untenable.

“What we have done is release a player who did not want to play for the Wests Tigers, we have secured a player who does want to play for the Wests Tigers, and there has been a financial accommodation with two of the clubs which serves the interest of the Wests Tigers.

“So we held firm and we fulfilled out expectations as to how it was going to pan out. I think from a Wests Tigers fan and member perspective you should be proud with the way the club dealt with this situation.”

Aloiai was at Manly’s Narrabeen headquarters on Monday, having made an immediate switch to the Sea Eagles after being released fro the final year of his contract with the Tigers.

Ofahengaue, whose deal will be paid in part by the Brisbane Broncos, is yet to begin training with the Tigers, although he is expected to join his new teammates later this week.

“Did Josh get what he wanted? Yes, he got released,” Hagipantelis said.
“Did the Wests Tigers set the conditions on which the release would be granted? Yes we did. Were those conditions fulfilled? Yes, they were.

“We had a player that made it very clear he didn’t want to play with us. I ask rhetorically, why would any fan or member want that player to remain?”

Asked wether he had a parting message for Aloiai, Hagipantelis said: “I just wish Josh all the very best. I hope he takes a moment to think about some of the more intemperate remarks he made about the Wests Tigers and that he may think better of them moving forward.

“I would hope he cherishes his time at the Wests Tigers and this incident hasn’t soured any of that.”

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/nrl/wests-tigers-boss-says-club-is-no-soft-touch/news-story/2ea652a1c82931799bd3aee962cf171b

So not only are we a snowflake team we now hand out instruction manuals - “how to leave Wests Tigers if you are disgruntled”. What happens next time Lee when no props are available? Is it untenable then?

You can paint this result anyway you choose but in the end .... it’s the WT club, the Board its Chairman and the coaching staff that received the compensation and replacement player which they wanted. So satisfactory result as far as I can see.
Nothing to throw mud about.

I don’t hate the outcome but I’m disappointed in the way it leaves us open to Adam Douehi or LL doing the exact same thing.

Well so is the rest of the clubs in the league. Nothing will change until the NRL puts some effort into this problem and implements some serious rules and penalties to prevent this situation in the future.
And don’t get me started about that other elephant in the room (salary cap and player payments) that is always in too hard basket for the NRL, the clubs and the players association to get serious about.
They have these cast of thousands committees forever banging on about one or two referees and what not whilst ignoring these two priorities areas which turn ..... fans of the game like us ..... from the game in increasing numbers.

Parra enforced the Utoikamanu contract
Penrith are enforcing the Laurie contract
Dragons didn’t let Saab go this year
Gold Coast enforced Jai Arrow
Penrith are keeping Burton
Frizell stayed at Stgeorge
Melbourne / Josh Addo Carr
Etc

Why are we the snowflakes??

Edit: also agree with your salary cap commentary, I enjoy watching the NFL more these days with the draft-transfer rules being much more equitable.

We achieved a positive outcome. You seem to have difficulty comprehending that.

1. I’m calling the outcome satisfactory until it plays out but on this occasion the club managed to secure a decent prop - lucky there was one available.

2. I’m unhappy because I still think it will happen again, potentially when AD or LL get sick of whatever it is going wrong at the place. Lee has basically stated that in the media today, if you say you don’t want to play for the jersey we’ll release you (no matter how much you’re needed because it’s untenable).

3. People seem to get upset on here when I criticise the club, we’ve missed finals for going on a decade, questions have to be asked.

You obviously have inside info on AD and Lucy wanting to sook and ask for a release. You keep mentioning these two players only.

Don't think you could have picked two worse players to fit your scenario myself.

I'll tell you what is wrong with the place, Simple: Sooky little players that come here, put in one a half a good year, get a swelled head and want more money at all costs.

How do you stop it? At club level you can't, it's an NRL problem.

We can get rid of the sooks though, when it is to our advantage. In both those cases we came out better off.

We’re always the victim aren’t we.

I Picked those 2 players as I enjoy watching them play - as I did with Matto and Aloiai.

FYI - That’s why other clubs chase them too

Is Aloiai worth $600k?

No, I’d say 500. Outcome on this whole situation was ok in my view. Just didn’t stand our ground and hence I believe it’ll happen again.

How did we not stand our ground? Manly paid up to get him.

JA got exactly what he wanted. If Roosters or any other club want one of our performing players at the end of 21, I don’t doubt their ability to pull one over us.

Getting paid to let a player go who doesn't want to be here and then being able to replace him with a better player is smart business.

None so blind mate.

 

[Telltails]

Not to be contentious, but there are some valid points getting lost in semantics.
We've witnessed the degradation of the club, team and our image for over a decade and those quoting the club's inability to "put their foot down" should be entitled to express this on the forum, without receiving such hostility.
I also share some of this view.
It's fantastic that we've managed to recuperate or recover however it's still frustrating as hell to watch players quite capably force the hand of our club.

People stating we're on a road to nowhere until the NRL fix this may be accurate but I recall the same type of arguments about clubs getting away with rorting, so why can't this conversation be explored in the same capacity.
Teams have adjusted their operations and methods, and are more strategic in counterattacking this specifically.
So could @trippa101 AND @BAGNF05 simply be making an attempt to open the conversation with how we can manage it from within the club?

No problem with anyone posting their opinion but if it’s not based on facts, like Bagnf05 claim that Lee leaked Aloiais comments to the media then they can and should be pulled up.

It’s a public forum. Discussion of opposing opinions is the territory and healthy but it’s not healthy when people make things up to push an agenda.

Where did I make a claim of Lee leaking? I referred to his quote in the media “it becomes untenable when a player states they do not want to play for the Wests Tigers jersey”

That’s an instruction to any player hoping to take up a better offer.


My genuine apology. I got you mixed up with @Telltails , you didnt say that. Got your name mixed in because Lauren had quoted you in the post I was replying to.

My point remains the same, but with his name rather than yours.

Just to confirm I never once said Lee leaked anything.


Your exact words were ***"He should never of shared what JA reportedly said with the media."***

The media already knew and asked Lee about it. HE DIDNT SHARE IT WITH THEM.

He did share information about the rumour never suggested he leaked it -,a big difference. He confirmed what was originally a rumour by an anonymous source to the media and in doing so shared it with a bigger audience than WTs forum. That was the point I was making. A bit over you coming at me because I don't have the same opinion as you, and whats with the passive aggressive capitals?


Forget it. I am more than happy not to converse with someone who does not even have the integrity and conviction to stand by his own words.

***I stand by everything thing I said***. He spoke to the media about the situation and confirmed the rumour - hence sharing information. Never once said he leaked it. Your arrogance and attitude of superiority toward anyone who does not share your views is clouding your ability to engage in rational discussion. To resort to low blows about someone's integrity - have a look in the mirror.

***"He should never of shared what JA reportedly said with the media."***

You get offended if I question your integrity and then say *"I stand by everything I said"*. I will call a spade a spade. You said he SHARED what JA said with the media. You cannot SHARE something with someone if they already have it. The media already had the information, this has been shown as fact and they went to Lee for his response. You can not SHARE something with someone if they already have it.

You were wrong, plain and simple and thats not the end of the world. I do it all the time here, had to apologise yesterday to Bagf05 for it. But instead of standing by what you said, you try to twist and turn some rubbish about "he spoke to the media about it" (after being asked a question about it) to weazel around it. This is the opposite of intergity. Im sorry if calling your lack of integrity offended you. Might I suggest that in future you act with some integrity, like ACTUALLY standing by your own words.

As far as looking in the mirror.....yesterday I made a clear error getting you confused with Bagf05. Immediately put my hands up and apologised, he accepted in good faith and I can continue a principled discussion with him. Im pretty good with whats in the mirror.

Do you read anything properly?
I do stand by my words - he shared information that he was privy to - didn't leak it never said he did - but discussed it hence confirming the rumour that the media had become aware of - and by discussing the rumour/ now fact - escalated the situation in a public arena. How many times do I have to explain that before you get it? Would you prefer I didn't use the word "share" rather engaged in a discussion about the rumour hence confirming it.
The result from that JA's instagram post and player reaction and the whole lawn mower crap talk. His discussion with the media enflamed the situation.
Still believe he should not have engaged in the discussion and stand by everthing I said despite your attempts to come after me, twist my words and their intent , discredit me, question my integrity on this forum after years of being a regular contributor, and resort to baseless accusations of having an some sort of agenda.