Joe Ofahengaue #240

[Tiger5150]

Not to be contentious, but there are some valid points getting lost in semantics.
We've witnessed the degradation of the club, team and our image for over a decade and those quoting the club's inability to "put their foot down" should be entitled to express this on the forum, without receiving such hostility.
I also share some of this view.
It's fantastic that we've managed to recuperate or recover however it's still frustrating as hell to watch players quite capably force the hand of our club.

People stating we're on a road to nowhere until the NRL fix this may be accurate but I recall the same type of arguments about clubs getting away with rorting, so why can't this conversation be explored in the same capacity.
Teams have adjusted their operations and methods, and are more strategic in counterattacking this specifically.
So could @trippa101 AND @BAGNF05 simply be making an attempt to open the conversation with how we can manage it from within the club?

No problem with anyone posting their opinion but if it’s not based on facts, like Bagnf05 claim that Lee leaked Aloiais comments to the media then they can and should be pulled up.

It’s a public forum. Discussion of opposing opinions is the territory and healthy but it’s not healthy when people make things up to push an agenda.

Where did I make a claim of Lee leaking? I referred to his quote in the media “it becomes untenable when a player states they do not want to play for the Wests Tigers jersey”

That’s an instruction to any player hoping to take up a better offer.


My genuine apology. I got you mixed up with @Telltails , you didnt say that. Got your name mixed in because Lauren had quoted you in the post I was replying to.

My point remains the same, but with his name rather than yours.

Just to confirm I never once said Lee leaked anything.


Your exact words were ***"He should never of shared what JA reportedly said with the media."***

The media already knew and asked Lee about it. HE DIDNT SHARE IT WITH THEM.

He did share information about the rumour never suggested he leaked it -,a big difference. He confirmed what was originally a rumour by an anonymous source to the media and in doing so shared it with a bigger audience than WTs forum. That was the point I was making. A bit over you coming at me because I don't have the same opinion as you, and whats with the passive aggressive capitals?


Forget it. I am more than happy not to converse with someone who does not even have the integrity and conviction to stand by his own words.

***I stand by everything thing I said***. He spoke to the media about the situation and confirmed the rumour - hence sharing information. Never once said he leaked it. Your arrogance and attitude of superiority toward anyone who does not share your views is clouding your ability to engage in rational discussion. To resort to low blows about someone's integrity - have a look in the mirror.

***"He should never of shared what JA reportedly said with the media."***

You get offended if I question your integrity and then say *"I stand by everything I said"*. I will call a spade a spade. You said he SHARED what JA said with the media. You cannot SHARE something with someone if they already have it. The media already had the information, this has been shown as fact and they went to Lee for his response. You can not SHARE something with someone if they already have it.

You were wrong, plain and simple and thats not the end of the world. I do it all the time here, had to apologise yesterday to Bagf05 for it. But instead of standing by what you said, you try to twist and turn some rubbish about "he spoke to the media about it" (after being asked a question about it) to weazel around it. This is the opposite of intergity. Im sorry if calling your lack of integrity offended you. Might I suggest that in future you act with some integrity, like ACTUALLY standing by your own words.

As far as looking in the mirror.....yesterday I made a clear error getting you confused with Bagf05. Immediately put my hands up and apologised, he accepted in good faith and I can continue a principled discussion with him. Im pretty good with whats in the mirror.

Do you read anything properly?
I do stand by my words - he shared information that he was privy to - didn't leak it never said he did - but discussed it hence confirming the rumour that the media had become aware of - and by discussing the rumour/ now fact - escalated the situation in a public arena. How many times do I have to explain that before you get it? Would you prefer I didn't use the word "share" rather engaged in a discussion about the rumour hence confirming it.
The result from that JA's instagram post and player reaction and the whole lawn mower crap talk. His discussion with the media enflamed the situation.
Still believe he should not have engaged in the discussion and stand by everthing I said despite your attempts to come after me, twist my words and their intent , discredit me, question my integrity on this forum after years of being a regular contributor, and resort to baseless accusations of having an some sort of agenda.

You still cant stand by your own words.

You do you. ill decide whether i engage with you.

 

[Spartan117]

Thanks Gents, I think we leave it here please.

 

[Telltails]

Not to be contentious, but there are some valid points getting lost in semantics.
We've witnessed the degradation of the club, team and our image for over a decade and those quoting the club's inability to "put their foot down" should be entitled to express this on the forum, without receiving such hostility.
I also share some of this view.
It's fantastic that we've managed to recuperate or recover however it's still frustrating as hell to watch players quite capably force the hand of our club.

People stating we're on a road to nowhere until the NRL fix this may be accurate but I recall the same type of arguments about clubs getting away with rorting, so why can't this conversation be explored in the same capacity.
Teams have adjusted their operations and methods, and are more strategic in counterattacking this specifically.
So could @trippa101 AND @BAGNF05 simply be making an attempt to open the conversation with how we can manage it from within the club?

No problem with anyone posting their opinion but if it’s not based on facts, like Bagnf05 claim that Lee leaked Aloiais comments to the media then they can and should be pulled up.

It’s a public forum. Discussion of opposing opinions is the territory and healthy but it’s not healthy when people make things up to push an agenda.

Where did I make a claim of Lee leaking? I referred to his quote in the media “it becomes untenable when a player states they do not want to play for the Wests Tigers jersey”

That’s an instruction to any player hoping to take up a better offer.


My genuine apology. I got you mixed up with @Telltails , you didnt say that. Got your name mixed in because Lauren had quoted you in the post I was replying to.

My point remains the same, but with his name rather than yours.

Just to confirm I never once said Lee leaked anything.


Your exact words were ***"He should never of shared what JA reportedly said with the media."***

The media already knew and asked Lee about it. HE DIDNT SHARE IT WITH THEM.

He did share information about the rumour never suggested he leaked it -,a big difference. He confirmed what was originally a rumour by an anonymous source to the media and in doing so shared it with a bigger audience than WTs forum. That was the point I was making. A bit over you coming at me because I don't have the same opinion as you, and whats with the passive aggressive capitals?


Forget it. I am more than happy not to converse with someone who does not even have the integrity and conviction to stand by his own words.

***I stand by everything thing I said***. He spoke to the media about the situation and confirmed the rumour - hence sharing information. Never once said he leaked it. Your arrogance and attitude of superiority toward anyone who does not share your views is clouding your ability to engage in rational discussion. To resort to low blows about someone's integrity - have a look in the mirror.

***"He should never of shared what JA reportedly said with the media."***

You get offended if I question your integrity and then say *"I stand by everything I said"*. I will call a spade a spade. You said he SHARED what JA said with the media. You cannot SHARE something with someone if they already have it. The media already had the information, this has been shown as fact and they went to Lee for his response. You can not SHARE something with someone if they already have it.

You were wrong, plain and simple and thats not the end of the world. I do it all the time here, had to apologise yesterday to Bagf05 for it. But instead of standing by what you said, you try to twist and turn some rubbish about "he spoke to the media about it" (after being asked a question about it) to weazel around it. This is the opposite of intergity. Im sorry if calling your lack of integrity offended you. Might I suggest that in future you act with some integrity, like ACTUALLY standing by your own words.

As far as looking in the mirror.....yesterday I made a clear error getting you confused with Bagf05. Immediately put my hands up and apologised, he accepted in good faith and I can continue a principled discussion with him. Im pretty good with whats in the mirror.

Do you read anything properly?
I do stand by my words - he shared information that he was privy to - didn't leak it never said he did - but discussed it hence confirming the rumour that the media had become aware of - and by discussing the rumour/ now fact - escalated the situation in a public arena. How many times do I have to explain that before you get it? Would you prefer I didn't use the word "share" rather engaged in a discussion about the rumour hence confirming it.
The result from that JA's instagram post and player reaction and the whole lawn mower crap talk. His discussion with the media enflamed the situation.
Still believe he should not have engaged in the discussion and stand by everthing I said despite your attempts to come after me, twist my words and their intent , discredit me, question my integrity on this forum after years of being a regular contributor, and resort to baseless accusations of having an some sort of agenda.


You still cant stand by your own words.

You do you. ill decide whether i engage with you.

Hilarious - I'll engage with you anytime you see fit, and in the meantime I will work hard on the agenda I supposedly have - that's when I figure out what it is.

 

[jirskyr]

Force the NRL to make the necessary changes due to the media circus that would have ensued.

Talk about extreme fantasy. Force the NRL?

 

[jirskyr]

We wouldn't have released Josh if we didn't have Joe or someone of a similar stature lined up. The way it worked out this time was very convenient for us and stopped things getting nasty. It usually doesn't happen that conveniently.
If Joffa had a;ready signed elsewhere and there was a real gap in the market for decent props then a simple transfer fee wouldn't have been enough to get a release as our squad as a whole would have been worse off. I have no doubt we would have forced Aloiai to be present yesterday if no replacement had yet been provided or sourced.

And that’s exactly what Lee needed to indicate yesterday but instead he dribbled.

Why concern yourself so much with what some spokesperson did or did not say, or their choice of words? Doesn't impact the fact of the matter that Aloiai is gone and Joe O is in, we were compensated, and the change is permanent.

Lee can say anything in the world, doesn't change what Tigers do behind the scenes.

I can never understand the fuss with public statements about football teams. Football teams do their talking with results on the field, everything else is secondary. And it's always lose-lose. If the club makes generic statements, people are up in arms about "fluff".

If they make pointed statements, people pick apart the complete and absolute accuracy of the comments and call it overly aggressive. For example with Lee, some people were literally waiting to see Josh Aloiai doing the equivalent of mowing lawns and not understanding the metaphor.

If the club states their goals publicly, they are measured within 1 micron and ridiculed for not meeting those targets. In other words, many folks are ready-made to complain.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Not to be be funny or rude but us not making the 8 for over a decade is nothing to do with my opinion.

This is a fact. This fact though doesn't mean we are viewed poorly or management is incompetent.

A lot of these problems are just your perspective.

And the perspective of 99% of rugby league people I know

Who cares ? Seriously. It's just your assessment of people you know. I know plenty of people and the last thing they do is tell me how incompetent the Tigers management are. I have a lot of friends who are also Tigers supporters.

How many people realistically talk to you every day about how incompetent the Tigers are ? I think most people have the Tigers management ability pretty low on their priorities of things to discuss.

I'd question your sample assessment but I assume you are just using hyperbole.

I’ve been around the game all my life, as an average player at best, coach, and referee. So I know a few and I discuss it a lot. That ranges from NRL players to my wife who patrols the junior league canteen, it’s common knowledge WT are a rabble mate.

Mate which district ? I think this has a bearing on where an opinion is coming from . There’s a lot of bias and things said like the “the tigers are a rabble “ and when pressed on the whys , they come up with a story from 5-10 years ago . Once someone gets an idea in thier head , it’s very rare for people to truely be open to changing it .
This was my whole point about targeting players Not affected by our past mistakes .
I don’t see how you can say we are a rabble when we are one of the only profitable teams in the comp ? To me , manly are a rabble . The sharks are a rabble . The sharks have had a good team since the late 80s yet fall into financial hardship every 5 years . Seriously , if the sway of living in the shire wasn’t there , they would have folded years ago . They have to recruit flat out , and this last crop of juniors is thier first in like 10 years with actual talent .

Another team that’s a rabble , the warriors . Have a whole country to pick from , but can never field a winning team . Have been through 4 owners as far as I can remember , and almost went out of business , when they changed thier name to NZ.
The dogs - have way too many hands in the kitchen , and haven’t fielded a decent team in 5 years , next year will be no different .
Secret bad team ...... NQ. Haven’t won anything , without a certain JT in thier squad , have the most diehard region of football fans in the world to pick from , huge corporate support , yet consistently produce rubbish . Bleed money like crazy as well . This same description applies to the dragons as well

You need to look at things objectively. Just because , you’re having conversations inside your echo chamber doesn’t mean , that it’s a fact . All it means is everyone inside that bubble has the same hive mind .

The region I live is irrelevant mate because it’s not just hearsay, it’s week after week of player dramas, year after year of coaching issues (note I like Madge), year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope, and a relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all. Even in the recent case, when we wanted a meeting with the NRL, they said ‘in a few weeks’. Even the league shows us little respect. Nobody is making this stuff up.

I'm just quoting this to say that this to me doesn't constitute objective truth.

Point 1:- Week after week of player drama. The only player drama I have heard of in relation to our club is the Aloiai situation. This is not week after week of drama. It's rare. Other clubs are also in the news in relation to player drama all the time. Souths have had Sam Burgess. Penrith have a cocaine problem. Nth Qld have a player sleeping with a married staff member. We aren't alone in our player drama and it's definitey not something that occurs weekly.

So point 1 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 2:- Year after year of coaching issues. I don't know what you mean here. We had Cleary leave us a coupleof years ago. Do other teams lose their coaches ? Do they sack them ? How many clubs sacked their coaches this year. Did we ?

So point 2 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 3:- year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope. Yeah this sucks but to be fair you shouldn't have hope for next season.

So point 3 might be a fact but you are missing out on a key point and that is teams have finished below us every year. I don't think it's an objective fact.

Point 4:- A relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all.

This is clearly not an objective fact. It's a subjective opinion that says nothing about Wests Tigers. I mean can you even explain what a relentless stream of players means. I mean is this happening to us daily ? How do you explain players taking drugs, having sex with women and filming it and even being up on rape charges. All of this is played out in the media. Do those players respect their clubs ?

Point 5:- The NRL disrespects us because they ask to delay a meeting for a couple of weeks.

This is to me a little bizarre. I mean does this really offend you ?

So your argument is, we should be allowed to have drama because other clubs do to? Look it’s simple, we need to challenge the top eight sides on the field, play finals footy, hold onto our best young players and start recruiting some guys that aren’t on another teams scrap heap. Until then, my opinion is we’re a rabble. There’s facts in there if u look hard enough.

Part of being in this business means that there will be player drama. We are dealing with young kids in a lot of ways and some of those kids have rugby league as their ticked to a better life. It happens to all teams. You can't expect us to be different.

We do challenge the top 8 sides on the field. We aren't a walkover hence we are coming middle of the table. We aren't dead last every year consistently.

As for recruitment and retention it's hard but it's not all bad. I reckon LL and AD are close to top tier signings. We've signed some great young kids in Stef and Blore and maybe even Laurie.

I can definitely state we aren't a rabble. The club appears to be doing everything it can right. We won't know how things turn out but I don't expect to make the finals next year. I do expect to keep building a decent team.

We may also surprise on the upside next season.

It’s about expectations, obviously mine are different to yours. Statistically each team should make the eight one in every two years, we haven’t made it in 9. I expect more than dead last when I make the 4 hour round trip to the footy, which I do often.

We have never been DEAD last.

So I guess your expectations have been met.

Yea , to me the guys saying and I’m paraphrasing , so relax if verbatim you didn’t say this ?, but the attitude of “we are the worst team in the comp” , has zero relevance to reality .
It’s like the NRL version of anti-vaxing, or flat earthers .
It’s true because I saw it on Facebook/ you tube , or my mate told me that his mate told him about this thing he saw on a website which was a link from another website . And somehow in 2020, this has become an actual point people are arguing .
Here’s the deal guys . If you saw it on net , and it wasn’t linked to something official , eg . A daily telegraph article , or , some random website . It’s probably not true .
Also , if your mate says something and they arnt a direct employee or , have had a first hand fact driven experience , it’s probably got a bit of magic dust sprinkled on the story, or , is jump hype train piling on , to continue the conversation at the pub. Most times when people say these things , and you ask them why they think that , it’s usually some anecdotal reason they heard somewhere , or complete BS. It’s rarely true . From my experience talking to people like this .
I’m not telling people how to suck eggs , or trying to be insulting , it’s everything you see and read has to be treated as crap. Especially the things that reinforce your strong opinion on something , as all social media , and some websites , have algorithms specifically designed to keep you in your echo chamber.
We all need to be mindful of this .

 

[jadtiger]

If you saw it on net , and it wasn’t linked to something official , eg . A daily telegraph article , or , some random website . It’s probably not true .

I would say if its in the telegraph it is even less likely to be true

 

[BAGNF05]

Not to be be funny or rude but us not making the 8 for over a decade is nothing to do with my opinion.

This is a fact. This fact though doesn't mean we are viewed poorly or management is incompetent.

A lot of these problems are just your perspective.

And the perspective of 99% of rugby league people I know

Who cares ? Seriously. It's just your assessment of people you know. I know plenty of people and the last thing they do is tell me how incompetent the Tigers management are. I have a lot of friends who are also Tigers supporters.

How many people realistically talk to you every day about how incompetent the Tigers are ? I think most people have the Tigers management ability pretty low on their priorities of things to discuss.

I'd question your sample assessment but I assume you are just using hyperbole.

I’ve been around the game all my life, as an average player at best, coach, and referee. So I know a few and I discuss it a lot. That ranges from NRL players to my wife who patrols the junior league canteen, it’s common knowledge WT are a rabble mate.

Mate which district ? I think this has a bearing on where an opinion is coming from . There’s a lot of bias and things said like the “the tigers are a rabble “ and when pressed on the whys , they come up with a story from 5-10 years ago . Once someone gets an idea in thier head , it’s very rare for people to truely be open to changing it .
This was my whole point about targeting players Not affected by our past mistakes .
I don’t see how you can say we are a rabble when we are one of the only profitable teams in the comp ? To me , manly are a rabble . The sharks are a rabble . The sharks have had a good team since the late 80s yet fall into financial hardship every 5 years . Seriously , if the sway of living in the shire wasn’t there , they would have folded years ago . They have to recruit flat out , and this last crop of juniors is thier first in like 10 years with actual talent .

Another team that’s a rabble , the warriors . Have a whole country to pick from , but can never field a winning team . Have been through 4 owners as far as I can remember , and almost went out of business , when they changed thier name to NZ.
The dogs - have way too many hands in the kitchen , and haven’t fielded a decent team in 5 years , next year will be no different .
Secret bad team ...... NQ. Haven’t won anything , without a certain JT in thier squad , have the most diehard region of football fans in the world to pick from , huge corporate support , yet consistently produce rubbish . Bleed money like crazy as well . This same description applies to the dragons as well

You need to look at things objectively. Just because , you’re having conversations inside your echo chamber doesn’t mean , that it’s a fact . All it means is everyone inside that bubble has the same hive mind .

The region I live is irrelevant mate because it’s not just hearsay, it’s week after week of player dramas, year after year of coaching issues (note I like Madge), year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope, and a relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all. Even in the recent case, when we wanted a meeting with the NRL, they said ‘in a few weeks’. Even the league shows us little respect. Nobody is making this stuff up.

I'm just quoting this to say that this to me doesn't constitute objective truth.

Point 1:- Week after week of player drama. The only player drama I have heard of in relation to our club is the Aloiai situation. This is not week after week of drama. It's rare. Other clubs are also in the news in relation to player drama all the time. Souths have had Sam Burgess. Penrith have a cocaine problem. Nth Qld have a player sleeping with a married staff member. We aren't alone in our player drama and it's definitey not something that occurs weekly.

So point 1 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 2:- Year after year of coaching issues. I don't know what you mean here. We had Cleary leave us a coupleof years ago. Do other teams lose their coaches ? Do they sack them ? How many clubs sacked their coaches this year. Did we ?

So point 2 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 3:- year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope. Yeah this sucks but to be fair you shouldn't have hope for next season.

So point 3 might be a fact but you are missing out on a key point and that is teams have finished below us every year. I don't think it's an objective fact.

Point 4:- A relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all.

This is clearly not an objective fact. It's a subjective opinion that says nothing about Wests Tigers. I mean can you even explain what a relentless stream of players means. I mean is this happening to us daily ? How do you explain players taking drugs, having sex with women and filming it and even being up on rape charges. All of this is played out in the media. Do those players respect their clubs ?

Point 5:- The NRL disrespects us because they ask to delay a meeting for a couple of weeks.

This is to me a little bizarre. I mean does this really offend you ?

So your argument is, we should be allowed to have drama because other clubs do to? Look it’s simple, we need to challenge the top eight sides on the field, play finals footy, hold onto our best young players and start recruiting some guys that aren’t on another teams scrap heap. Until then, my opinion is we’re a rabble. There’s facts in there if u look hard enough.

Part of being in this business means that there will be player drama. We are dealing with young kids in a lot of ways and some of those kids have rugby league as their ticked to a better life. It happens to all teams. You can't expect us to be different.

We do challenge the top 8 sides on the field. We aren't a walkover hence we are coming middle of the table. We aren't dead last every year consistently.

As for recruitment and retention it's hard but it's not all bad. I reckon LL and AD are close to top tier signings. We've signed some great young kids in Stef and Blore and maybe even Laurie.

I can definitely state we aren't a rabble. The club appears to be doing everything it can right. We won't know how things turn out but I don't expect to make the finals next year. I do expect to keep building a decent team.

We may also surprise on the upside next season.

It’s about expectations, obviously mine are different to yours. Statistically each team should make the eight one in every two years, we haven’t made it in 9. I expect more than dead last when I make the 4 hour round trip to the footy, which I do often.

We have never been DEAD last.

So I guess your expectations have been met.

Yea , to me the guys saying and I’m paraphrasing , so relax if verbatim you didn’t say this ?, but the attitude of “we are the worst team in the comp” , has zero relevance to reality .
It’s like the NRL version of anti-vaxing, or flat earthers .
It’s true because I saw it on Facebook/ you tube , or my mate told me that his mate told him about this thing he saw on a website which was a link from another website . And somehow in 2020, this has become an actual point people are arguing .
Here’s the deal guys . If you saw it on net , and it wasn’t linked to something official , eg . A daily telegraph article , or , some random website . It’s probably not true .
Also , if your mate says something and they arnt a direct employee or , have had a first hand fact driven experience , it’s probably got a bit of magic dust sprinkled on the story, or , is jump hype train piling on , to continue the conversation at the pub. Most times when people say these things , and you ask them why they think that , it’s usually some anecdotal reason they heard somewhere , or complete BS. It’s rarely true . From my experience talking to people like this .
I’m not telling people how to suck eggs , or trying to be insulting , it’s everything you see and read has to be treated as crap. Especially the things that reinforce your strong opinion on something , as all social media , and some websites , have algorithms specifically designed to keep you in your echo chamber.
We all need to be mindful of this .

Mate you blokes get tied up on fact versus fiction.

Who is the club with the longest running finals drought? I’ve been paying membership for those 9 years, and I have every right to voice my concerns and expect more. As you do to voice yours.

So let’s move on.

 

[BAGNF05]

Force the NRL to make the necessary changes due to the media circus that would have ensued.

Talk about extreme fantasy. Force the NRL?

I’ve found PVL very proactive so far.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Not to be be funny or rude but us not making the 8 for over a decade is nothing to do with my opinion.

This is a fact. This fact though doesn't mean we are viewed poorly or management is incompetent.

A lot of these problems are just your perspective.

And the perspective of 99% of rugby league people I know

Who cares ? Seriously. It's just your assessment of people you know. I know plenty of people and the last thing they do is tell me how incompetent the Tigers management are. I have a lot of friends who are also Tigers supporters.

How many people realistically talk to you every day about how incompetent the Tigers are ? I think most people have the Tigers management ability pretty low on their priorities of things to discuss.

I'd question your sample assessment but I assume you are just using hyperbole.

I’ve been around the game all my life, as an average player at best, coach, and referee. So I know a few and I discuss it a lot. That ranges from NRL players to my wife who patrols the junior league canteen, it’s common knowledge WT are a rabble mate.

Mate which district ? I think this has a bearing on where an opinion is coming from . There’s a lot of bias and things said like the “the tigers are a rabble “ and when pressed on the whys , they come up with a story from 5-10 years ago . Once someone gets an idea in thier head , it’s very rare for people to truely be open to changing it .
This was my whole point about targeting players Not affected by our past mistakes .
I don’t see how you can say we are a rabble when we are one of the only profitable teams in the comp ? To me , manly are a rabble . The sharks are a rabble . The sharks have had a good team since the late 80s yet fall into financial hardship every 5 years . Seriously , if the sway of living in the shire wasn’t there , they would have folded years ago . They have to recruit flat out , and this last crop of juniors is thier first in like 10 years with actual talent .

Another team that’s a rabble , the warriors . Have a whole country to pick from , but can never field a winning team . Have been through 4 owners as far as I can remember , and almost went out of business , when they changed thier name to NZ.
The dogs - have way too many hands in the kitchen , and haven’t fielded a decent team in 5 years , next year will be no different .
Secret bad team ...... NQ. Haven’t won anything , without a certain JT in thier squad , have the most diehard region of football fans in the world to pick from , huge corporate support , yet consistently produce rubbish . Bleed money like crazy as well . This same description applies to the dragons as well

You need to look at things objectively. Just because , you’re having conversations inside your echo chamber doesn’t mean , that it’s a fact . All it means is everyone inside that bubble has the same hive mind .

The region I live is irrelevant mate because it’s not just hearsay, it’s week after week of player dramas, year after year of coaching issues (note I like Madge), year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope, and a relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all. Even in the recent case, when we wanted a meeting with the NRL, they said ‘in a few weeks’. Even the league shows us little respect. Nobody is making this stuff up.

I'm just quoting this to say that this to me doesn't constitute objective truth.

Point 1:- Week after week of player drama. The only player drama I have heard of in relation to our club is the Aloiai situation. This is not week after week of drama. It's rare. Other clubs are also in the news in relation to player drama all the time. Souths have had Sam Burgess. Penrith have a cocaine problem. Nth Qld have a player sleeping with a married staff member. We aren't alone in our player drama and it's definitey not something that occurs weekly.

So point 1 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 2:- Year after year of coaching issues. I don't know what you mean here. We had Cleary leave us a coupleof years ago. Do other teams lose their coaches ? Do they sack them ? How many clubs sacked their coaches this year. Did we ?

So point 2 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 3:- year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope. Yeah this sucks but to be fair you shouldn't have hope for next season.

So point 3 might be a fact but you are missing out on a key point and that is teams have finished below us every year. I don't think it's an objective fact.

Point 4:- A relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all.

This is clearly not an objective fact. It's a subjective opinion that says nothing about Wests Tigers. I mean can you even explain what a relentless stream of players means. I mean is this happening to us daily ? How do you explain players taking drugs, having sex with women and filming it and even being up on rape charges. All of this is played out in the media. Do those players respect their clubs ?

Point 5:- The NRL disrespects us because they ask to delay a meeting for a couple of weeks.

This is to me a little bizarre. I mean does this really offend you ?

So your argument is, we should be allowed to have drama because other clubs do to? Look it’s simple, we need to challenge the top eight sides on the field, play finals footy, hold onto our best young players and start recruiting some guys that aren’t on another teams scrap heap. Until then, my opinion is we’re a rabble. There’s facts in there if u look hard enough.

Part of being in this business means that there will be player drama. We are dealing with young kids in a lot of ways and some of those kids have rugby league as their ticked to a better life. It happens to all teams. You can't expect us to be different.

We do challenge the top 8 sides on the field. We aren't a walkover hence we are coming middle of the table. We aren't dead last every year consistently.

As for recruitment and retention it's hard but it's not all bad. I reckon LL and AD are close to top tier signings. We've signed some great young kids in Stef and Blore and maybe even Laurie.

I can definitely state we aren't a rabble. The club appears to be doing everything it can right. We won't know how things turn out but I don't expect to make the finals next year. I do expect to keep building a decent team.

We may also surprise on the upside next season.

It’s about expectations, obviously mine are different to yours. Statistically each team should make the eight one in every two years, we haven’t made it in 9. I expect more than dead last when I make the 4 hour round trip to the footy, which I do often.

We have never been DEAD last.

So I guess your expectations have been met.

Yea , to me the guys saying and I’m paraphrasing , so relax if verbatim you didn’t say this ?, but the attitude of “we are the worst team in the comp” , has zero relevance to reality .
It’s like the NRL version of anti-vaxing, or flat earthers .
It’s true because I saw it on Facebook/ you tube , or my mate told me that his mate told him about this thing he saw on a website which was a link from another website . And somehow in 2020, this has become an actual point people are arguing .
Here’s the deal guys . If you saw it on net , and it wasn’t linked to something official , eg . A daily telegraph article , or , some random website . It’s probably not true .
Also , if your mate says something and they arnt a direct employee or , have had a first hand fact driven experience , it’s probably got a bit of magic dust sprinkled on the story, or , is jump hype train piling on , to continue the conversation at the pub. Most times when people say these things , and you ask them why they think that , it’s usually some anecdotal reason they heard somewhere , or complete BS. It’s rarely true . From my experience talking to people like this .
I’m not telling people how to suck eggs , or trying to be insulting , it’s everything you see and read has to be treated as crap. Especially the things that reinforce your strong opinion on something , as all social media , and some websites , have algorithms specifically designed to keep you in your echo chamber.
We all need to be mindful of this .

Mate you blokes get tied up on fact versus fiction.

Who is the club with the longest running finals drought? I’ve been paying membership for those 9 years, and I have every right to voice my concerns and expect more. As you do to voice yours.

So let’s move on.

You said we were the worst team in the comp. Many of us have come out and said that’s utter rubbish. Refuting that claim. It’s all good if you say something “yea your right we arnt the worst , I’m just frustrated “that’s fine . But you guys doubled down . Which lead to the whole debate . No ones having a go at you . Well I’m not at least . I just think that’s not true , and it’s the type of comment and perception , that we are railling against . Perception vs reality

 

[BAGNF05]

Not to be be funny or rude but us not making the 8 for over a decade is nothing to do with my opinion.

This is a fact. This fact though doesn't mean we are viewed poorly or management is incompetent.

A lot of these problems are just your perspective.

And the perspective of 99% of rugby league people I know

Who cares ? Seriously. It's just your assessment of people you know. I know plenty of people and the last thing they do is tell me how incompetent the Tigers management are. I have a lot of friends who are also Tigers supporters.

How many people realistically talk to you every day about how incompetent the Tigers are ? I think most people have the Tigers management ability pretty low on their priorities of things to discuss.

I'd question your sample assessment but I assume you are just using hyperbole.

I’ve been around the game all my life, as an average player at best, coach, and referee. So I know a few and I discuss it a lot. That ranges from NRL players to my wife who patrols the junior league canteen, it’s common knowledge WT are a rabble mate.

Mate which district ? I think this has a bearing on where an opinion is coming from . There’s a lot of bias and things said like the “the tigers are a rabble “ and when pressed on the whys , they come up with a story from 5-10 years ago . Once someone gets an idea in thier head , it’s very rare for people to truely be open to changing it .
This was my whole point about targeting players Not affected by our past mistakes .
I don’t see how you can say we are a rabble when we are one of the only profitable teams in the comp ? To me , manly are a rabble . The sharks are a rabble . The sharks have had a good team since the late 80s yet fall into financial hardship every 5 years . Seriously , if the sway of living in the shire wasn’t there , they would have folded years ago . They have to recruit flat out , and this last crop of juniors is thier first in like 10 years with actual talent .

Another team that’s a rabble , the warriors . Have a whole country to pick from , but can never field a winning team . Have been through 4 owners as far as I can remember , and almost went out of business , when they changed thier name to NZ.
The dogs - have way too many hands in the kitchen , and haven’t fielded a decent team in 5 years , next year will be no different .
Secret bad team ...... NQ. Haven’t won anything , without a certain JT in thier squad , have the most diehard region of football fans in the world to pick from , huge corporate support , yet consistently produce rubbish . Bleed money like crazy as well . This same description applies to the dragons as well

You need to look at things objectively. Just because , you’re having conversations inside your echo chamber doesn’t mean , that it’s a fact . All it means is everyone inside that bubble has the same hive mind .

The region I live is irrelevant mate because it’s not just hearsay, it’s week after week of player dramas, year after year of coaching issues (note I like Madge), year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope, and a relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all. Even in the recent case, when we wanted a meeting with the NRL, they said ‘in a few weeks’. Even the league shows us little respect. Nobody is making this stuff up.

I'm just quoting this to say that this to me doesn't constitute objective truth.

Point 1:- Week after week of player drama. The only player drama I have heard of in relation to our club is the Aloiai situation. This is not week after week of drama. It's rare. Other clubs are also in the news in relation to player drama all the time. Souths have had Sam Burgess. Penrith have a cocaine problem. Nth Qld have a player sleeping with a married staff member. We aren't alone in our player drama and it's definitey not something that occurs weekly.

So point 1 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 2:- Year after year of coaching issues. I don't know what you mean here. We had Cleary leave us a coupleof years ago. Do other teams lose their coaches ? Do they sack them ? How many clubs sacked their coaches this year. Did we ?

So point 2 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 3:- year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope. Yeah this sucks but to be fair you shouldn't have hope for next season.

So point 3 might be a fact but you are missing out on a key point and that is teams have finished below us every year. I don't think it's an objective fact.

Point 4:- A relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all.

This is clearly not an objective fact. It's a subjective opinion that says nothing about Wests Tigers. I mean can you even explain what a relentless stream of players means. I mean is this happening to us daily ? How do you explain players taking drugs, having sex with women and filming it and even being up on rape charges. All of this is played out in the media. Do those players respect their clubs ?

Point 5:- The NRL disrespects us because they ask to delay a meeting for a couple of weeks.

This is to me a little bizarre. I mean does this really offend you ?

So your argument is, we should be allowed to have drama because other clubs do to? Look it’s simple, we need to challenge the top eight sides on the field, play finals footy, hold onto our best young players and start recruiting some guys that aren’t on another teams scrap heap. Until then, my opinion is we’re a rabble. There’s facts in there if u look hard enough.

Part of being in this business means that there will be player drama. We are dealing with young kids in a lot of ways and some of those kids have rugby league as their ticked to a better life. It happens to all teams. You can't expect us to be different.

We do challenge the top 8 sides on the field. We aren't a walkover hence we are coming middle of the table. We aren't dead last every year consistently.

As for recruitment and retention it's hard but it's not all bad. I reckon LL and AD are close to top tier signings. We've signed some great young kids in Stef and Blore and maybe even Laurie.

I can definitely state we aren't a rabble. The club appears to be doing everything it can right. We won't know how things turn out but I don't expect to make the finals next year. I do expect to keep building a decent team.

We may also surprise on the upside next season.

It’s about expectations, obviously mine are different to yours. Statistically each team should make the eight one in every two years, we haven’t made it in 9. I expect more than dead last when I make the 4 hour round trip to the footy, which I do often.

We have never been DEAD last.

So I guess your expectations have been met.

Yea , to me the guys saying and I’m paraphrasing , so relax if verbatim you didn’t say this ?, but the attitude of “we are the worst team in the comp” , has zero relevance to reality .
It’s like the NRL version of anti-vaxing, or flat earthers .
It’s true because I saw it on Facebook/ you tube , or my mate told me that his mate told him about this thing he saw on a website which was a link from another website . And somehow in 2020, this has become an actual point people are arguing .
Here’s the deal guys . If you saw it on net , and it wasn’t linked to something official , eg . A daily telegraph article , or , some random website . It’s probably not true .
Also , if your mate says something and they arnt a direct employee or , have had a first hand fact driven experience , it’s probably got a bit of magic dust sprinkled on the story, or , is jump hype train piling on , to continue the conversation at the pub. Most times when people say these things , and you ask them why they think that , it’s usually some anecdotal reason they heard somewhere , or complete BS. It’s rarely true . From my experience talking to people like this .
I’m not telling people how to suck eggs , or trying to be insulting , it’s everything you see and read has to be treated as crap. Especially the things that reinforce your strong opinion on something , as all social media , and some websites , have algorithms specifically designed to keep you in your echo chamber.
We all need to be mindful of this .

Mate you blokes get tied up on fact versus fiction.

Who is the club with the longest running finals drought? I’ve been paying membership for those 9 years, and I have every right to voice my concerns and expect more. As you do to voice yours.

So let’s move on.

You said we were the worst team in the comp. Many of us have come out and said that’s utter rubbish. Refuting that claim. It’s all good if you say something “yea your right we arnt the worst , I’m just frustrated “that’s fine . But you guys doubled down . Which lead to the whole debate . No ones having a go at you . Well I’m not at least . I just think that’s not true , and it’s the type of comment and perception , that we are railling against . Perception vs reality

No I said we’re a rabble (ordinary). We’re not the only rabble.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Not to be be funny or rude but us not making the 8 for over a decade is nothing to do with my opinion.

This is a fact. This fact though doesn't mean we are viewed poorly or management is incompetent.

A lot of these problems are just your perspective.

And the perspective of 99% of rugby league people I know

Who cares ? Seriously. It's just your assessment of people you know. I know plenty of people and the last thing they do is tell me how incompetent the Tigers management are. I have a lot of friends who are also Tigers supporters.

How many people realistically talk to you every day about how incompetent the Tigers are ? I think most people have the Tigers management ability pretty low on their priorities of things to discuss.

I'd question your sample assessment but I assume you are just using hyperbole.

I’ve been around the game all my life, as an average player at best, coach, and referee. So I know a few and I discuss it a lot. That ranges from NRL players to my wife who patrols the junior league canteen, it’s common knowledge WT are a rabble mate.

Mate which district ? I think this has a bearing on where an opinion is coming from . There’s a lot of bias and things said like the “the tigers are a rabble “ and when pressed on the whys , they come up with a story from 5-10 years ago . Once someone gets an idea in thier head , it’s very rare for people to truely be open to changing it .
This was my whole point about targeting players Not affected by our past mistakes .
I don’t see how you can say we are a rabble when we are one of the only profitable teams in the comp ? To me , manly are a rabble . The sharks are a rabble . The sharks have had a good team since the late 80s yet fall into financial hardship every 5 years . Seriously , if the sway of living in the shire wasn’t there , they would have folded years ago . They have to recruit flat out , and this last crop of juniors is thier first in like 10 years with actual talent .

Another team that’s a rabble , the warriors . Have a whole country to pick from , but can never field a winning team . Have been through 4 owners as far as I can remember , and almost went out of business , when they changed thier name to NZ.
The dogs - have way too many hands in the kitchen , and haven’t fielded a decent team in 5 years , next year will be no different .
Secret bad team ...... NQ. Haven’t won anything , without a certain JT in thier squad , have the most diehard region of football fans in the world to pick from , huge corporate support , yet consistently produce rubbish . Bleed money like crazy as well . This same description applies to the dragons as well

You need to look at things objectively. Just because , you’re having conversations inside your echo chamber doesn’t mean , that it’s a fact . All it means is everyone inside that bubble has the same hive mind .

The region I live is irrelevant mate because it’s not just hearsay, it’s week after week of player dramas, year after year of coaching issues (note I like Madge), year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope, and a relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all. Even in the recent case, when we wanted a meeting with the NRL, they said ‘in a few weeks’. Even the league shows us little respect. Nobody is making this stuff up.

I'm just quoting this to say that this to me doesn't constitute objective truth.

Point 1:- Week after week of player drama. The only player drama I have heard of in relation to our club is the Aloiai situation. This is not week after week of drama. It's rare. Other clubs are also in the news in relation to player drama all the time. Souths have had Sam Burgess. Penrith have a cocaine problem. Nth Qld have a player sleeping with a married staff member. We aren't alone in our player drama and it's definitey not something that occurs weekly.

So point 1 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 2:- Year after year of coaching issues. I don't know what you mean here. We had Cleary leave us a coupleof years ago. Do other teams lose their coaches ? Do they sack them ? How many clubs sacked their coaches this year. Did we ?

So point 2 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 3:- year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope. Yeah this sucks but to be fair you shouldn't have hope for next season.

So point 3 might be a fact but you are missing out on a key point and that is teams have finished below us every year. I don't think it's an objective fact.

Point 4:- A relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all.

This is clearly not an objective fact. It's a subjective opinion that says nothing about Wests Tigers. I mean can you even explain what a relentless stream of players means. I mean is this happening to us daily ? How do you explain players taking drugs, having sex with women and filming it and even being up on rape charges. All of this is played out in the media. Do those players respect their clubs ?

Point 5:- The NRL disrespects us because they ask to delay a meeting for a couple of weeks.

This is to me a little bizarre. I mean does this really offend you ?

So your argument is, we should be allowed to have drama because other clubs do to? Look it’s simple, we need to challenge the top eight sides on the field, play finals footy, hold onto our best young players and start recruiting some guys that aren’t on another teams scrap heap. Until then, my opinion is we’re a rabble. There’s facts in there if u look hard enough.

Part of being in this business means that there will be player drama. We are dealing with young kids in a lot of ways and some of those kids have rugby league as their ticked to a better life. It happens to all teams. You can't expect us to be different.

We do challenge the top 8 sides on the field. We aren't a walkover hence we are coming middle of the table. We aren't dead last every year consistently.

As for recruitment and retention it's hard but it's not all bad. I reckon LL and AD are close to top tier signings. We've signed some great young kids in Stef and Blore and maybe even Laurie.

I can definitely state we aren't a rabble. The club appears to be doing everything it can right. We won't know how things turn out but I don't expect to make the finals next year. I do expect to keep building a decent team.

We may also surprise on the upside next season.

It’s about expectations, obviously mine are different to yours. Statistically each team should make the eight one in every two years, we haven’t made it in 9. I expect more than dead last when I make the 4 hour round trip to the footy, which I do often.

We have never been DEAD last.

So I guess your expectations have been met.

Yea , to me the guys saying and I’m paraphrasing , so relax if verbatim you didn’t say this ?, but the attitude of “we are the worst team in the comp” , has zero relevance to reality .
It’s like the NRL version of anti-vaxing, or flat earthers .
It’s true because I saw it on Facebook/ you tube , or my mate told me that his mate told him about this thing he saw on a website which was a link from another website . And somehow in 2020, this has become an actual point people are arguing .
Here’s the deal guys . If you saw it on net , and it wasn’t linked to something official , eg . A daily telegraph article , or , some random website . It’s probably not true .
Also , if your mate says something and they arnt a direct employee or , have had a first hand fact driven experience , it’s probably got a bit of magic dust sprinkled on the story, or , is jump hype train piling on , to continue the conversation at the pub. Most times when people say these things , and you ask them why they think that , it’s usually some anecdotal reason they heard somewhere , or complete BS. It’s rarely true . From my experience talking to people like this .
I’m not telling people how to suck eggs , or trying to be insulting , it’s everything you see and read has to be treated as crap. Especially the things that reinforce your strong opinion on something , as all social media , and some websites , have algorithms specifically designed to keep you in your echo chamber.
We all need to be mindful of this .

Mate you blokes get tied up on fact versus fiction.

Who is the club with the longest running finals drought? I’ve been paying membership for those 9 years, and I have every right to voice my concerns and expect more. As you do to voice yours.

So let’s move on.

You said we were the worst team in the comp. Many of us have come out and said that’s utter rubbish. Refuting that claim. It’s all good if you say something “yea your right we arnt the worst , I’m just frustrated “that’s fine . But you guys doubled down . Which lead to the whole debate . No ones having a go at you . Well I’m not at least . I just think that’s not true , and it’s the type of comment and perception , that we are railling against . Perception vs reality

No I said we’re a rabble. We’re not the only rabble.

Like I said earlier in another post I was paraphrasing . I actually think Trippa said that . Still even the rabble comment , has little to do with facts , and more just perception. We arnt a rabble . We are stuck in sports purgatory! Not good enough to compete for a title , yet not bad enough to suck outright , that you can bottom out and build from the ground up. There’s an easy way out by “tanking” or bottoming out and playing kids , or there’s the really hard route , which is trying to fix it on the fly . And because of the nature of the sport being fix it yesterday , coach’s ,GMs , recruitment managers , CEOs , make short sighted decisions because , they’re worried about thier job . Hence all the poor “marquee” signings over the last 5 years .
I hate losing more than most , I just watch a lot of different sports , both here , and the US , and it’s so hard to build a team . Here more so , because we don’t have any natural talent dispersion tools like a draft , and transparent salaries .

 

[earl]

it’s so hard to build a team . Here more so , because we don’t have any natural talent dispersion tools like a draft , and transparent salaries .

Exactly. This is a tough business to be in.

It's not so simple to develop a top tier rugby league team. There have been two top teams in recent history - Melbourne and The Rorters. Melbourne were caught systematically cheating the cap. The rorters to me are suspect. If there is a simplistic solution it is to cheat on the salary cap.

Comments like "we are a rabble" or whatever need to put into that context unless there is some further evidence provided. Since there is no evidence these type of comments come across as irrational and extremely biased.

 

[happy_tiger]

it’s so hard to build a team . Here more so , because we don’t have any natural talent dispersion tools like a draft , and transparent salaries .

Exactly. This is a tough business to be in.

It's not so simple to develop a top tier rugby league team. There have been two top teams in recent history - Melbourne and The Rorters. Melbourne were caught systematically cheating the cap. The rorters to me are suspect. If there is a simplistic solution it is to cheat on the salary cap.

Comments like "we are a rabble" or whatever need to put into that context unless there is some further evidence provided. Since there is no evidence these type of comments come across as irrational and extremely biased.

But every club has found a way to climb out of the mire for at least one season since 2011 bar us

And then we have the worst winning record of any club since 2000 despite making the finals in 2011 and 2010 ..being premiership favourites in 2012 ...winning a premiership in 2005

We had a good base to start with in 2006 and in 2012 ...yet we really blew it

 

[BZN]

I think Tigers players and other clubs will still see us as soft even if they did give up some money. I like the addition of Joe O but I see losing JA as losing our second best forward (after Luciano) so I think this isn't much of an improvement overall. People are getting a little overhyped about our signings. We've basically signed players unwanted at other clubs on small contracts. I like the signings but it's silly to get hopes up about this season. Adding Joe O and keeping JA would have meant better depth and a stronger pack, I don't think we've achieved that yet this season. Tamou is certainly an improvement on what we have, but he's a year older and he might not have the commitment to play hard this year on his final contract. Overall, the clubs making good signings but we're still too impatient to get rid of players or coaches as soon as they get a little upset. We've seen Melbourne, Eels, Penrith and even the Titans handle such demands with more conviction. It seems like every time a player or coach requests a release we talk tough and then release them within a week. I really think JA could have been productive for us this year, irrespective of what has been said.

The players at the other clubs didn't burn their bridges like JA did.

But it only shows future players how they go about these sort of disputes if we let players go because of their public talk. Ignore his public comments and tell him he's either playing for us or not getting paid. It's simple and they've signed a bloody contract and just like we're doing with Packer and Reynolds both parties have to honour that. It's just really short-sighted and weak by us. This is the perfect year and the right sort of player to take a stand on. He's an average footballer and we're going to be an average team next year (if we're lucky), you're not disrupting anything by standing your ground on this one. And if it really doesn't work out and we have a potential signing coming in then we can just release him when it suits us. But right now we're making another team stronger and we're looking like pushovers again, because we are.

The way to prevent that is the NRL changing the rules in this area, not us fielding a weaker squad to prove a point.

In saying that it appears we get $100k+ compensation for releasing him. That doesn't paint us as weak.

I feel like the rules are pretty clear, we just need to be able to insist that players stick to them. If they don't then they won't get paid and they won't be able to play. I don't think we need to look to the NRL to improve this.

Rubbish, this area is a mess, players should not be able to agitate for a release because they were offered a larger contract elsewhere. It is also really poor to have players signing contracts 16 months before they can play for a team.

[/QUOTE]

Now...being serious...I agree with your post completely...except!!!... for your very 1st word.
I don't believe I have the rite to say someone else's thoughts are 'rubbish'.
I am certainly entitled to say that I disagree or strongly disagree though.
As Kamal used to say..."please be kind to one another".
Have a great day Cochise :relaxed: .

 

[BAGNF05]

Not to be be funny or rude but us not making the 8 for over a decade is nothing to do with my opinion.

This is a fact. This fact though doesn't mean we are viewed poorly or management is incompetent.

A lot of these problems are just your perspective.

And the perspective of 99% of rugby league people I know

Who cares ? Seriously. It's just your assessment of people you know. I know plenty of people and the last thing they do is tell me how incompetent the Tigers management are. I have a lot of friends who are also Tigers supporters.

How many people realistically talk to you every day about how incompetent the Tigers are ? I think most people have the Tigers management ability pretty low on their priorities of things to discuss.

I'd question your sample assessment but I assume you are just using hyperbole.

I’ve been around the game all my life, as an average player at best, coach, and referee. So I know a few and I discuss it a lot. That ranges from NRL players to my wife who patrols the junior league canteen, it’s common knowledge WT are a rabble mate.

Mate which district ? I think this has a bearing on where an opinion is coming from . There’s a lot of bias and things said like the “the tigers are a rabble “ and when pressed on the whys , they come up with a story from 5-10 years ago . Once someone gets an idea in thier head , it’s very rare for people to truely be open to changing it .
This was my whole point about targeting players Not affected by our past mistakes .
I don’t see how you can say we are a rabble when we are one of the only profitable teams in the comp ? To me , manly are a rabble . The sharks are a rabble . The sharks have had a good team since the late 80s yet fall into financial hardship every 5 years . Seriously , if the sway of living in the shire wasn’t there , they would have folded years ago . They have to recruit flat out , and this last crop of juniors is thier first in like 10 years with actual talent .

Another team that’s a rabble , the warriors . Have a whole country to pick from , but can never field a winning team . Have been through 4 owners as far as I can remember , and almost went out of business , when they changed thier name to NZ.
The dogs - have way too many hands in the kitchen , and haven’t fielded a decent team in 5 years , next year will be no different .
Secret bad team ...... NQ. Haven’t won anything , without a certain JT in thier squad , have the most diehard region of football fans in the world to pick from , huge corporate support , yet consistently produce rubbish . Bleed money like crazy as well . This same description applies to the dragons as well

You need to look at things objectively. Just because , you’re having conversations inside your echo chamber doesn’t mean , that it’s a fact . All it means is everyone inside that bubble has the same hive mind .

The region I live is irrelevant mate because it’s not just hearsay, it’s week after week of player dramas, year after year of coaching issues (note I like Madge), year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope, and a relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all. Even in the recent case, when we wanted a meeting with the NRL, they said ‘in a few weeks’. Even the league shows us little respect. Nobody is making this stuff up.

I'm just quoting this to say that this to me doesn't constitute objective truth.

Point 1:- Week after week of player drama. The only player drama I have heard of in relation to our club is the Aloiai situation. This is not week after week of drama. It's rare. Other clubs are also in the news in relation to player drama all the time. Souths have had Sam Burgess. Penrith have a cocaine problem. Nth Qld have a player sleeping with a married staff member. We aren't alone in our player drama and it's definitey not something that occurs weekly.

So point 1 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 2:- Year after year of coaching issues. I don't know what you mean here. We had Cleary leave us a coupleof years ago. Do other teams lose their coaches ? Do they sack them ? How many clubs sacked their coaches this year. Did we ?

So point 2 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 3:- year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope. Yeah this sucks but to be fair you shouldn't have hope for next season.

So point 3 might be a fact but you are missing out on a key point and that is teams have finished below us every year. I don't think it's an objective fact.

Point 4:- A relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all.

This is clearly not an objective fact. It's a subjective opinion that says nothing about Wests Tigers. I mean can you even explain what a relentless stream of players means. I mean is this happening to us daily ? How do you explain players taking drugs, having sex with women and filming it and even being up on rape charges. All of this is played out in the media. Do those players respect their clubs ?

Point 5:- The NRL disrespects us because they ask to delay a meeting for a couple of weeks.

This is to me a little bizarre. I mean does this really offend you ?

So your argument is, we should be allowed to have drama because other clubs do to? Look it’s simple, we need to challenge the top eight sides on the field, play finals footy, hold onto our best young players and start recruiting some guys that aren’t on another teams scrap heap. Until then, my opinion is we’re a rabble. There’s facts in there if u look hard enough.

Part of being in this business means that there will be player drama. We are dealing with young kids in a lot of ways and some of those kids have rugby league as their ticked to a better life. It happens to all teams. You can't expect us to be different.

We do challenge the top 8 sides on the field. We aren't a walkover hence we are coming middle of the table. We aren't dead last every year consistently.

As for recruitment and retention it's hard but it's not all bad. I reckon LL and AD are close to top tier signings. We've signed some great young kids in Stef and Blore and maybe even Laurie.

I can definitely state we aren't a rabble. The club appears to be doing everything it can right. We won't know how things turn out but I don't expect to make the finals next year. I do expect to keep building a decent team.

We may also surprise on the upside next season.

It’s about expectations, obviously mine are different to yours. Statistically each team should make the eight one in every two years, we haven’t made it in 9. I expect more than dead last when I make the 4 hour round trip to the footy, which I do often.

We have never been DEAD last.

So I guess your expectations have been met.

Yea , to me the guys saying and I’m paraphrasing , so relax if verbatim you didn’t say this ?, but the attitude of “we are the worst team in the comp” , has zero relevance to reality .
It’s like the NRL version of anti-vaxing, or flat earthers .
It’s true because I saw it on Facebook/ you tube , or my mate told me that his mate told him about this thing he saw on a website which was a link from another website . And somehow in 2020, this has become an actual point people are arguing .
Here’s the deal guys . If you saw it on net , and it wasn’t linked to something official , eg . A daily telegraph article , or , some random website . It’s probably not true .
Also , if your mate says something and they arnt a direct employee or , have had a first hand fact driven experience , it’s probably got a bit of magic dust sprinkled on the story, or , is jump hype train piling on , to continue the conversation at the pub. Most times when people say these things , and you ask them why they think that , it’s usually some anecdotal reason they heard somewhere , or complete BS. It’s rarely true . From my experience talking to people like this .
I’m not telling people how to suck eggs , or trying to be insulting , it’s everything you see and read has to be treated as crap. Especially the things that reinforce your strong opinion on something , as all social media , and some websites , have algorithms specifically designed to keep you in your echo chamber.
We all need to be mindful of this .

Mate you blokes get tied up on fact versus fiction.

Who is the club with the longest running finals drought? I’ve been paying membership for those 9 years, and I have every right to voice my concerns and expect more. As you do to voice yours.

So let’s move on.

You said we were the worst team in the comp. Many of us have come out and said that’s utter rubbish. Refuting that claim. It’s all good if you say something “yea your right we arnt the worst , I’m just frustrated “that’s fine . But you guys doubled down . Which lead to the whole debate . No ones having a go at you . Well I’m not at least . I just think that’s not true , and it’s the type of comment and perception , that we are railling against . Perception vs reality

No I said we’re a rabble. We’re not the only rabble.

Like I said earlier in another post I was paraphrasing . I actually think Trippa said that . Still even the rabble comment , has little to do with facts , and more just perception. We arnt a rabble . We are stuck in sports purgatory! Not good enough to compete for a title , yet not bad enough to suck outright , that you can bottom out and build from the ground up. There’s an easy way out by “tanking” or bottoming out and playing kids , or there’s the really hard route , which is trying to fix it on the fly . And because of the nature of the sport being fix it yesterday , coach’s ,GMs , recruitment managers , CEOs , make short sighted decisions because , they’re worried about thier job . Hence all the poor “marquee” signings over the last 5 years .
I hate losing more than most , I just watch a lot of different sports , both here , and the US , and it’s so hard to build a team . Here more so , because we don’t have any natural talent dispersion tools like a draft , and transparent salaries .

I agree with you on this. Whether it’s a rabble or purgatory or whatever name you give it, I’d love to see it end.

 

[cochise]

Not to be be funny or rude but us not making the 8 for over a decade is nothing to do with my opinion.

This is a fact. This fact though doesn't mean we are viewed poorly or management is incompetent.

A lot of these problems are just your perspective.

And the perspective of 99% of rugby league people I know

Who cares ? Seriously. It's just your assessment of people you know. I know plenty of people and the last thing they do is tell me how incompetent the Tigers management are. I have a lot of friends who are also Tigers supporters.

How many people realistically talk to you every day about how incompetent the Tigers are ? I think most people have the Tigers management ability pretty low on their priorities of things to discuss.

I'd question your sample assessment but I assume you are just using hyperbole.

I’ve been around the game all my life, as an average player at best, coach, and referee. So I know a few and I discuss it a lot. That ranges from NRL players to my wife who patrols the junior league canteen, it’s common knowledge WT are a rabble mate.

Mate which district ? I think this has a bearing on where an opinion is coming from . There’s a lot of bias and things said like the “the tigers are a rabble “ and when pressed on the whys , they come up with a story from 5-10 years ago . Once someone gets an idea in thier head , it’s very rare for people to truely be open to changing it .
This was my whole point about targeting players Not affected by our past mistakes .
I don’t see how you can say we are a rabble when we are one of the only profitable teams in the comp ? To me , manly are a rabble . The sharks are a rabble . The sharks have had a good team since the late 80s yet fall into financial hardship every 5 years . Seriously , if the sway of living in the shire wasn’t there , they would have folded years ago . They have to recruit flat out , and this last crop of juniors is thier first in like 10 years with actual talent .

Another team that’s a rabble , the warriors . Have a whole country to pick from , but can never field a winning team . Have been through 4 owners as far as I can remember , and almost went out of business , when they changed thier name to NZ.
The dogs - have way too many hands in the kitchen , and haven’t fielded a decent team in 5 years , next year will be no different .
Secret bad team ...... NQ. Haven’t won anything , without a certain JT in thier squad , have the most diehard region of football fans in the world to pick from , huge corporate support , yet consistently produce rubbish . Bleed money like crazy as well . This same description applies to the dragons as well

You need to look at things objectively. Just because , you’re having conversations inside your echo chamber doesn’t mean , that it’s a fact . All it means is everyone inside that bubble has the same hive mind .

The region I live is irrelevant mate because it’s not just hearsay, it’s week after week of player dramas, year after year of coaching issues (note I like Madge), year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope, and a relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all. Even in the recent case, when we wanted a meeting with the NRL, they said ‘in a few weeks’. Even the league shows us little respect. Nobody is making this stuff up.

I'm just quoting this to say that this to me doesn't constitute objective truth.

Point 1:- Week after week of player drama. The only player drama I have heard of in relation to our club is the Aloiai situation. This is not week after week of drama. It's rare. Other clubs are also in the news in relation to player drama all the time. Souths have had Sam Burgess. Penrith have a cocaine problem. Nth Qld have a player sleeping with a married staff member. We aren't alone in our player drama and it's definitey not something that occurs weekly.

So point 1 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 2:- Year after year of coaching issues. I don't know what you mean here. We had Cleary leave us a coupleof years ago. Do other teams lose their coaches ? Do they sack them ? How many clubs sacked their coaches this year. Did we ?

So point 2 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 3:- year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope. Yeah this sucks but to be fair you shouldn't have hope for next season.

So point 3 might be a fact but you are missing out on a key point and that is teams have finished below us every year. I don't think it's an objective fact.

Point 4:- A relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all.

This is clearly not an objective fact. It's a subjective opinion that says nothing about Wests Tigers. I mean can you even explain what a relentless stream of players means. I mean is this happening to us daily ? How do you explain players taking drugs, having sex with women and filming it and even being up on rape charges. All of this is played out in the media. Do those players respect their clubs ?

Point 5:- The NRL disrespects us because they ask to delay a meeting for a couple of weeks.

This is to me a little bizarre. I mean does this really offend you ?

So your argument is, we should be allowed to have drama because other clubs do to? Look it’s simple, we need to challenge the top eight sides on the field, play finals footy, hold onto our best young players and start recruiting some guys that aren’t on another teams scrap heap. Until then, my opinion is we’re a rabble. There’s facts in there if u look hard enough.

Part of being in this business means that there will be player drama. We are dealing with young kids in a lot of ways and some of those kids have rugby league as their ticked to a better life. It happens to all teams. You can't expect us to be different.

We do challenge the top 8 sides on the field. We aren't a walkover hence we are coming middle of the table. We aren't dead last every year consistently.

As for recruitment and retention it's hard but it's not all bad. I reckon LL and AD are close to top tier signings. We've signed some great young kids in Stef and Blore and maybe even Laurie.

I can definitely state we aren't a rabble. The club appears to be doing everything it can right. We won't know how things turn out but I don't expect to make the finals next year. I do expect to keep building a decent team.

We may also surprise on the upside next season.

It’s about expectations, obviously mine are different to yours. Statistically each team should make the eight one in every two years, we haven’t made it in 9. I expect more than dead last when I make the 4 hour round trip to the footy, which I do often.

We have never been DEAD last.

So I guess your expectations have been met.

Yea , to me the guys saying and I’m paraphrasing , so relax if verbatim you didn’t say this ?, but the attitude of “we are the worst team in the comp” , has zero relevance to reality .
It’s like the NRL version of anti-vaxing, or flat earthers .
It’s true because I saw it on Facebook/ you tube , or my mate told me that his mate told him about this thing he saw on a website which was a link from another website . And somehow in 2020, this has become an actual point people are arguing .
Here’s the deal guys . If you saw it on net , and it wasn’t linked to something official , eg . A daily telegraph article , or , some random website . It’s probably not true .
Also , if your mate says something and they arnt a direct employee or , have had a first hand fact driven experience , it’s probably got a bit of magic dust sprinkled on the story, or , is jump hype train piling on , to continue the conversation at the pub. Most times when people say these things , and you ask them why they think that , it’s usually some anecdotal reason they heard somewhere , or complete BS. It’s rarely true . From my experience talking to people like this .
I’m not telling people how to suck eggs , or trying to be insulting , it’s everything you see and read has to be treated as crap. Especially the things that reinforce your strong opinion on something , as all social media , and some websites , have algorithms specifically designed to keep you in your echo chamber.
We all need to be mindful of this .

Mate you blokes get tied up on fact versus fiction.

Who is the club with the longest running finals drought? I’ve been paying membership for those 9 years, and I have every right to voice my concerns and expect more. As you do to voice yours.

So let’s move on.

You said we were the worst team in the comp. Many of us have come out and said that’s utter rubbish. Refuting that claim. It’s all good if you say something “yea your right we arnt the worst , I’m just frustrated “that’s fine . But you guys doubled down . Which lead to the whole debate . No ones having a go at you . Well I’m not at least . I just think that’s not true , and it’s the type of comment and perception , that we are railling against . Perception vs reality

No I said we’re a rabble. We’re not the only rabble.

Like I said earlier in another post I was paraphrasing . I actually think Trippa said that . Still even the rabble comment , has little to do with facts , and more just perception. We arnt a rabble . We are stuck in sports purgatory! Not good enough to compete for a title , yet not bad enough to suck outright , that you can bottom out and build from the ground up. There’s an easy way out by “tanking” or bottoming out and playing kids , or there’s the really hard route , which is trying to fix it on the fly . And because of the nature of the sport being fix it yesterday , coach’s ,GMs , recruitment managers , CEOs , make short sighted decisions because , they’re worried about thier job . Hence all the poor “marquee” signings over the last 5 years .
I hate losing more than most , I just watch a lot of different sports , both here , and the US , and it’s so hard to build a team . Here more so , because we don’t have any natural talent dispersion tools like a draft , and transparent salaries .

I agree with you on this. Whether it’s a rabble or purgatory or whatever name you give it, I’d love to see it end.

Do you think you are the only one?

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Not to be be funny or rude but us not making the 8 for over a decade is nothing to do with my opinion.

This is a fact. This fact though doesn't mean we are viewed poorly or management is incompetent.

A lot of these problems are just your perspective.

And the perspective of 99% of rugby league people I know

Who cares ? Seriously. It's just your assessment of people you know. I know plenty of people and the last thing they do is tell me how incompetent the Tigers management are. I have a lot of friends who are also Tigers supporters.

How many people realistically talk to you every day about how incompetent the Tigers are ? I think most people have the Tigers management ability pretty low on their priorities of things to discuss.

I'd question your sample assessment but I assume you are just using hyperbole.

I’ve been around the game all my life, as an average player at best, coach, and referee. So I know a few and I discuss it a lot. That ranges from NRL players to my wife who patrols the junior league canteen, it’s common knowledge WT are a rabble mate.

Mate which district ? I think this has a bearing on where an opinion is coming from . There’s a lot of bias and things said like the “the tigers are a rabble “ and when pressed on the whys , they come up with a story from 5-10 years ago . Once someone gets an idea in thier head , it’s very rare for people to truely be open to changing it .
This was my whole point about targeting players Not affected by our past mistakes .
I don’t see how you can say we are a rabble when we are one of the only profitable teams in the comp ? To me , manly are a rabble . The sharks are a rabble . The sharks have had a good team since the late 80s yet fall into financial hardship every 5 years . Seriously , if the sway of living in the shire wasn’t there , they would have folded years ago . They have to recruit flat out , and this last crop of juniors is thier first in like 10 years with actual talent .

Another team that’s a rabble , the warriors . Have a whole country to pick from , but can never field a winning team . Have been through 4 owners as far as I can remember , and almost went out of business , when they changed thier name to NZ.
The dogs - have way too many hands in the kitchen , and haven’t fielded a decent team in 5 years , next year will be no different .
Secret bad team ...... NQ. Haven’t won anything , without a certain JT in thier squad , have the most diehard region of football fans in the world to pick from , huge corporate support , yet consistently produce rubbish . Bleed money like crazy as well . This same description applies to the dragons as well

You need to look at things objectively. Just because , you’re having conversations inside your echo chamber doesn’t mean , that it’s a fact . All it means is everyone inside that bubble has the same hive mind .

The region I live is irrelevant mate because it’s not just hearsay, it’s week after week of player dramas, year after year of coaching issues (note I like Madge), year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope, and a relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all. Even in the recent case, when we wanted a meeting with the NRL, they said ‘in a few weeks’. Even the league shows us little respect. Nobody is making this stuff up.

I'm just quoting this to say that this to me doesn't constitute objective truth.

Point 1:- Week after week of player drama. The only player drama I have heard of in relation to our club is the Aloiai situation. This is not week after week of drama. It's rare. Other clubs are also in the news in relation to player drama all the time. Souths have had Sam Burgess. Penrith have a cocaine problem. Nth Qld have a player sleeping with a married staff member. We aren't alone in our player drama and it's definitey not something that occurs weekly.

So point 1 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 2:- Year after year of coaching issues. I don't know what you mean here. We had Cleary leave us a coupleof years ago. Do other teams lose their coaches ? Do they sack them ? How many clubs sacked their coaches this year. Did we ?

So point 2 clearly isn't an objective fact.

Point 3:- year after year of losing our must win games after showing early glimpses of hope. Yeah this sucks but to be fair you shouldn't have hope for next season.

So point 3 might be a fact but you are missing out on a key point and that is teams have finished below us every year. I don't think it's an objective fact.

Point 4:- A relentless stream of players, player managers and other clubs treating us with no respect at all.

This is clearly not an objective fact. It's a subjective opinion that says nothing about Wests Tigers. I mean can you even explain what a relentless stream of players means. I mean is this happening to us daily ? How do you explain players taking drugs, having sex with women and filming it and even being up on rape charges. All of this is played out in the media. Do those players respect their clubs ?

Point 5:- The NRL disrespects us because they ask to delay a meeting for a couple of weeks.

This is to me a little bizarre. I mean does this really offend you ?

So your argument is, we should be allowed to have drama because other clubs do to? Look it’s simple, we need to challenge the top eight sides on the field, play finals footy, hold onto our best young players and start recruiting some guys that aren’t on another teams scrap heap. Until then, my opinion is we’re a rabble. There’s facts in there if u look hard enough.

Part of being in this business means that there will be player drama. We are dealing with young kids in a lot of ways and some of those kids have rugby league as their ticked to a better life. It happens to all teams. You can't expect us to be different.

We do challenge the top 8 sides on the field. We aren't a walkover hence we are coming middle of the table. We aren't dead last every year consistently.

As for recruitment and retention it's hard but it's not all bad. I reckon LL and AD are close to top tier signings. We've signed some great young kids in Stef and Blore and maybe even Laurie.

I can definitely state we aren't a rabble. The club appears to be doing everything it can right. We won't know how things turn out but I don't expect to make the finals next year. I do expect to keep building a decent team.

We may also surprise on the upside next season.

It’s about expectations, obviously mine are different to yours. Statistically each team should make the eight one in every two years, we haven’t made it in 9. I expect more than dead last when I make the 4 hour round trip to the footy, which I do often.

We have never been DEAD last.

So I guess your expectations have been met.

Yea , to me the guys saying and I’m paraphrasing , so relax if verbatim you didn’t say this ?, but the attitude of “we are the worst team in the comp” , has zero relevance to reality .
It’s like the NRL version of anti-vaxing, or flat earthers .
It’s true because I saw it on Facebook/ you tube , or my mate told me that his mate told him about this thing he saw on a website which was a link from another website . And somehow in 2020, this has become an actual point people are arguing .
Here’s the deal guys . If you saw it on net , and it wasn’t linked to something official , eg . A daily telegraph article , or , some random website . It’s probably not true .
Also , if your mate says something and they arnt a direct employee or , have had a first hand fact driven experience , it’s probably got a bit of magic dust sprinkled on the story, or , is jump hype train piling on , to continue the conversation at the pub. Most times when people say these things , and you ask them why they think that , it’s usually some anecdotal reason they heard somewhere , or complete BS. It’s rarely true . From my experience talking to people like this .
I’m not telling people how to suck eggs , or trying to be insulting , it’s everything you see and read has to be treated as crap. Especially the things that reinforce your strong opinion on something , as all social media , and some websites , have algorithms specifically designed to keep you in your echo chamber.
We all need to be mindful of this .

Mate you blokes get tied up on fact versus fiction.

Who is the club with the longest running finals drought? I’ve been paying membership for those 9 years, and I have every right to voice my concerns and expect more. As you do to voice yours.

So let’s move on.

You said we were the worst team in the comp. Many of us have come out and said that’s utter rubbish. Refuting that claim. It’s all good if you say something “yea your right we arnt the worst , I’m just frustrated “that’s fine . But you guys doubled down . Which lead to the whole debate . No ones having a go at you . Well I’m not at least . I just think that’s not true , and it’s the type of comment and perception , that we are railling against . Perception vs reality

No I said we’re a rabble. We’re not the only rabble.

Like I said earlier in another post I was paraphrasing . I actually think Trippa said that . Still even the rabble comment , has little to do with facts , and more just perception. We arnt a rabble . We are stuck in sports purgatory! Not good enough to compete for a title , yet not bad enough to suck outright , that you can bottom out and build from the ground up. There’s an easy way out by “tanking” or bottoming out and playing kids , or there’s the really hard route , which is trying to fix it on the fly . And because of the nature of the sport being fix it yesterday , coach’s ,GMs , recruitment managers , CEOs , make short sighted decisions because , they’re worried about thier job . Hence all the poor “marquee” signings over the last 5 years .
I hate losing more than most , I just watch a lot of different sports , both here , and the US , and it’s so hard to build a team . Here more so , because we don’t have any natural talent dispersion tools like a draft , and transparent salaries .

I agree with you on this. Whether it’s a rabble or purgatory or whatever name you give it, I’d love to see it end.

Yea ,but rabble and implies ineptitude at every level . And I just don’t think that’s true . Not even a little bit . Purgatory implies , we are trying everything , doing all the right things , but for whoever reason we are missing that final ingredient. And I ? don’t think it’s incompetence . It’s nice to put a big bow around things and gift wrap it , but that’s not how it is. It was because of the boardroom bull crap , which lead to Tim Sheens and the boys club , which lead to a toxic culture of enabling under performance . Benji especially has a lot to answer for . It’s why Ben Teo did what he did , Woods felt holier than thou , and finally teddy wanted out etc. losing him was finally the “recession we needed to have “ . Cleary actually screwed us more than a lot of people realise , because his on the bus rubbish really polarised people , only for it to be a whole lot of rubbish .
So we get to the last 2 and a bit years under Madge . The systems have been adopted finally through the club , the roster is beginning to look like something of a Madge team . And the boardroom rubbish is a thing of the past .
People just blend things like 9 years of losing because to them it has been 9 years . But to those in the club it’s really 2-3 years .

 

[TigerWest]

Lee's comments are ridiculous. Why does he talk to the media? Those comments are embarrassing. Even if we weren't soft in the JA negotiations (I think we were) it still doesn't change our recent history of being bullied by players, coaches and managers. I just don't see what benefit there is for him to announce how much impact a player airing their public grievances can have on the club's decision making process. It sounds childish. I've been uncomfortable with his openness in the past, I actually wonder about his judgement now.

He should never of shared what JA reportedly said with the media. It was a certain way to turn the fans on him and give justification for possibly releasing him. But then he talked tough and made the lawnmower references and didn't follow through.. We got an outcome from it - some believe a good one and hopefully it will be - **but no solution to the problem.**

Because at club level, **there is no solution to the problem**. Only the NRL can fox this, if they want to.

and it appears they want to, well done Lee

 

[Harvey]

He seems like a bad reality star. Loves to see his name in the media.

He unnecessarily escalated the situation. What quotes did Melbourne make when Addo-Carr was agitating for a release?

I will reserve judgment until seeing whether the NRL introduces the rule that prevents players earning more money when breaking a contract. I can see the NRL folding, but if that does come into effect, I will say he has been successful.