JTs Presser..after Dogs game..

[Love_the_WestsTigers]

Apparently the NRL had to grant a cap exemption because Farah, Ballin and Cherrington (from top 25) were unavailable. If anyone of them are available they will need to play before Liddle

Yes i do agree with this
There are exemptions that get applied to 2nd tier salary cap for a club whose playing roster is severely hampered by injuries.

Thats on page 241 section 9 paragraph 3 from "NRL for Dummies", the same books the Refs learn from .. lol

No but its true when exemptions do apply

 

[tigermac88]

I wish you could send this article to every Wests Tigers Forum member so they could possibly understand why Jason Taylor can't make some of the changes people are screaming for

But then again , no doubt some would claim JT was making it up or creating spin just so he couldn't pick players on purpose

Yes but on the flip side I'm sure if my memory is correct that Milone was outside the top 25… JT loves picking underperforming players regardless of what spin he wants to put on it.

 

[Masterton]

If 2 of Farah Cherington or Halatau go down at the same time…Liddle can be given exemption again...

I'm not so sure. I can understand the NRL conceding that Halatau isn't an 80 minute hooker, but if Cherro & Halatau were out, they might just tell us to play Farah for the whole game.

He'd also be eligible to play if both teams are out of semis contention.

 

[tigerman80]

Even if were only paying $100,000 of that, its still money we could have spent somewhere else. Im sure another $100,000 might have kept JAC here but thats another story

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Even if were only paying $100,000 of that, its still money we could have spent somewhere else. Im sure another $100,000 might have kept JAC here but thats another story

You're really clutching now.

 

[tigerman80]

Even if were only paying $100,000 of that, its still money we could have spent somewhere else. Im sure another $100,000 might have kept JAC here but thats another story

You're really clutching now.

So your saying Ballin was a good acquisition for us?

 

[ricksen]

One of the many issues with the NRL CBA is the lack of any injured reserve exemption for the top tier salary cap.
If a team loses someone (or two or three) to a season ending injury, they should be able to call up someone from outside the top 25 to play in the top grade, and not be punished in terms of cap dollars.
Hell, even a smaller league in its infancy like the A-League has an exemption built in for this.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Even if were only paying $100,000 of that, its still money we could have spent somewhere else. Im sure another $100,000 might have kept JAC here but thats another story

You're really clutching now.

So your saying Ballin was a good acquisition for us?

Considering we got him for next to nothing and he was a direct replacement for Joel Luani, I think he was.

 

[Eddie]

Ballin has been a dud signing.

There is no other way of putting it.

We signed a guy we knew would be injured to Round 10 and coming off a knee reco at his age.

Maybe Liddell could have had that Top 25 spot or someone who could have provided more.

Its not hindsight , many said so at the time.

 

[tigerman80]

Even if were only paying $100,000 of that, its still money we could have spent somewhere else. Im sure another $100,000 might have kept JAC here but thats another story

You're really clutching now.

So your saying Ballin was a good acquisition for us?

Considering we got him for next to nothing and he was a direct replacement for Joel Luani, I think he was.

And im the one clutching lol lol lol. What a great signing, a player at the end of his career coming of a knee reconstruction. Plays 2 games and does his knee again. I take it back your right he was a good signing. :crazy

 

[TrueTiger]

You're really clutching now.

So your saying Ballin was a good acquisition for us?

Considering we got him for next to nothing and he was a direct replacement for Joel Luani, I think he was.

And im the one clutching lol lol lol. What a great signing, a player at the end of his career coming of a knee reconstruction. Plays 2 games and does his knee again. I take it back your right he was a good signing. :crazy

The club has been very unlucky with Ballin,he is a very astute player…he was a very good signing,although his operation wasn't a great success and he has been sidelined for quite awhile,none of us really know what work he does behind the scenes at training and within the club developing our future young players and the ones that are playing now....before everyone makes a judgement let's give him credit for his experience and knowledge that he brings to this club....we have made poorer recruitments on much bigger money that were absolutely useless to us...Adam Blair comes to mind,he wasn't that good for us on the field but he did great work with the younger players especially the Islanders..

 

[Telltails]

He was a dud signing - no reflection on the man himself - but please

 

[2041]

If JT hadnt smartly wasted $300,000 on Ballin, Liddle and a few others might have had an opportunity much earlier. With Farah looking likely to stay next year, lets convince Ballin to retire and take a coaching job, and really focus on Liddle coming through.

Where did you pull that $300k figure from?

I cant imagine him being on anything less.

JT was practically blushing when he told about the amazing deal we got him for. It's heavily subsidised by Manly. I don't reckon we're paying that.

How amazing does a deal have to be to make it good value for a guy who never plays? Unless Manly are actually paying us money (ie Ballin is on 300k and Manly have sent us 400k), Ballin has been nothing other than a wasted roster spot this year and therefore is not good value.

Or maybe this is just theoretical. I mean, it's not as if we have a talented young hooker coming through who could have been put in the top 25 but not used for most of the season, so that when there is a space for him in first grade he can be played as required without causing any second-tier cap drama. Oh hang on…

 

[2041]

So your saying Ballin was a good acquisition for us?

Considering we got him for next to nothing and he was a direct replacement for Joel Luani, I think he was.

And im the one clutching lol lol lol. What a great signing, a player at the end of his career coming of a knee reconstruction. Plays 2 games and does his knee again. I take it back your right he was a good signing. :crazy

The club has been very unlucky with Ballin,he is a very astute player…he was a very good signing,although his operation wasn't a great success and he has been sidelined for quite awhile,none of us really know what work he does behind the scenes at training and within the club developing our future young players and the ones that are playing now....before everyone makes a judgement let's give him credit for his experience and knowledge that he brings to this club....we have made poorer recruitments on much bigger money that were absolutely useless to us...Adam Blair comes to mind,he wasn't that good for us on the field but he did great work with the younger players especially the Islanders..

No. Ballin was a dud signing because he was 32 and had not recovered from a bad injury. There was always a good chance he'd never get enough game time to justify a roster spot, regardless of how low his salary is. Blair was a bad signing but at least there was no indication ahead of time that he actually wouldn't be able to get on the field.

If the Tigers wanted someone to provide "mentorship" or "veteran leadership" or whatever suspiciously unquantifiable attribute it is you want to ascribe to Ballin, they should have signed another coach.

 

[Russell]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Ballin was signed with Farah going as the scenario. The Board did not back JT when it came to the crunch so that scenario did not happen. Manly paid most of his salary.

Ballin was one of the fittest players in the League and was due to play in round three until he had a setback. No one at the start of the season was talking about Liddle playing NRL in their wildest dreams. Unluckily Ballin sustained another injury, it could have happened to Farah he is just as old or one of the younger ones (age does not discriminate).

In hindsight he may not have been the best signing but at the time he was.

 

[2041]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Ballin was signed with Farah going as the scenario. The Board did not back JT when it came to the crunch so that scenario did not happen. Manly paid most of his salary.

Ballin was one of the fittest players in the League and was due to play in round three until he had a setback. No one at the start of the season was talking about Liddle playing NRL in their wildest dreams. Unluckily Ballin sustained another injury, it could have happened to Farah he is just as old or one of the younger ones (age does not discriminate).

In hindsight he may not have been the best signing but at the time he was.

It's not hindsight, it's foresight. He was 32 and had not recovered from a bad ACL. You don't sign that guy, unless he's Sonny Bill or something and it's a justifiable lottery ticket. We didn't need a lottery ticket, we needed a hooker.

In fact, I'd argue that the only reason for picking up Ballin would be if the expectation was that Farah wasn't leaving. Ballin, if fit, to play 20 minutes and cover origin. If not fit, make do. Worth a punt for little money.

To sign Ballin on the expectation that he's going to be first-choice hooker all season, regardless of the money involved, was insanity.

 

[tigerman80]

Where did you pull that $300k figure from?

I cant imagine him being on anything less.

JT was practically blushing when he told about the amazing deal we got him for. It's heavily subsidised by Manly. I don't reckon we're paying that.

How amazing does a deal have to be to make it good value for a guy who never plays? Unless Manly are actually paying us money (ie Ballin is on 300k and Manly have sent us 400k), Ballin has been nothing other than a wasted roster spot this year and therefore is not good value.

Or maybe this is just theoretical. I mean, it's not as if we have a talented young hooker coming through who could have been put in the top 25 but not used for most of the season, so that when there is a space for him in first grade he can be played as required without causing any second-tier cap drama. Oh hang on…

I couldnt have put it any better myself lol :smiley:

 

[hammertime]

Where did you pull that $300k figure from?

I cant imagine him being on anything less.

JT was practically blushing when he told about the amazing deal we got him for. It's heavily subsidised by Manly. I don't reckon we're paying that.

How amazing does a deal have to be to make it good value for a guy who never plays? Unless Manly are actually paying us money (ie Ballin is on 300k and Manly have sent us 400k), Ballin has been nothing other than a wasted roster spot this year and therefore is not good value.

Or maybe this is just theoretical. I mean, it's not as if we have a talented young hooker coming through who could have been put in the top 25 but not used for most of the season, so that when there is a space for him in first grade he can be played as required without causing any second-tier cap drama. Oh hang on…

I think a few things to note here.

1) This is all in hindsight. Originally he was estimated to come back early in the season. If injuries hadn't reoccured, he was the perfect replacement for Robbie over SOO.

2) You're ignoring the culture he has brought to the club. I don't think a good senior guy with a strong work ethic should be ignored in terms of impact on the juniors.

I think the only way to effectively evaluate this is the $'s he commanded (which we don't know) and take ourselves back to pre-season.

.. and sure, looking now. He probably hasn't been value for money. But I reckon I would have made the same call as the recruitment team when they did.

 

[851]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Ballin was signed with Farah going as the scenario. The Board did not back JT when it came to the crunch so that scenario did not happen. Manly paid most of his salary.

Ballin was one of the fittest players in the League and was due to play in round three until he had a setback. No one at the start of the season was talking about Liddle playing NRL in their wildest dreams. Unluckily Ballin sustained another injury, it could have happened to Farah he is just as old or one of the younger ones (age does not discriminate).

In hindsight he may not have been the best signing but at the time he was.

It's not hindsight, it's foresight. He was 32 and had not recovered from a bad ACL. You don't sign that guy, unless he's Sonny Bill or something and it's a justifiable lottery ticket. We didn't need a lottery ticket, we needed a hooker.

In fact, I'd argue that the only reason for picking up Ballin would be if the expectation was that Farah wasn't leaving. Ballin, if fit, to play 20 minutes and cover origin. If not fit, make do. Worth a punt for little money.

To sign Ballin on the expectation that he's going to be first-choice hooker all season, regardless of the money involved, was insanity.

This was nearly everybody's take on the signing, is was purely an ego signing from JT to try show Farah who was boss, not a signing for the teams sake, we had Farah, Cherrington, Liddle and Halatau already at the club we needed centres, backrowers and wingers.

 

[tigerman80]

I cant imagine him being on anything less.

JT was practically blushing when he told about the amazing deal we got him for. It's heavily subsidised by Manly. I don't reckon we're paying that.

How amazing does a deal have to be to make it good value for a guy who never plays? Unless Manly are actually paying us money (ie Ballin is on 300k and Manly have sent us 400k), Ballin has been nothing other than a wasted roster spot this year and therefore is not good value.

Or maybe this is just theoretical. I mean, it's not as if we have a talented young hooker coming through who could have been put in the top 25 but not used for most of the season, so that when there is a space for him in first grade he can be played as required without causing any second-tier cap drama. Oh hang on…

I think a few things to note here.

1) This is all in hindsight. Originally he was estimated to come back early in the season. If injuries hadn't reoccured, he was the perfect replacement for Robbie over SOO.

2) You're ignoring the culture he has brought to the club. I don't think a good senior guy with a strong work ethic should be ignored in terms of impact on the juniors.

I think the only way to effectively evaluate this is the $'s he commanded (which we don't know) and take ourselves back to pre-season.

.. and sure, looking now. He probably hasn't been value for money. But I reckon I would have made the same call as the recruitment team when they did.

Do you need hindsight to tell you a 32 year old coming of knee surgery and missing the first 10 rounds of the year was going to be a dud buy. You dont need hindsight you need something called common sense. Especially when you also res-sign Halatau for another year to fill that role . Imagine how good Liddle would have been next year or even with our push to the finals this year with half a dozen games under his belt. I will say it again hopefully Halatau and Ballin are gone next year, with Farah and Liddle our hooker combination.