Last days of the Mighty Magpies

Sometimes i find myself having to take a step back and think what am I actually trying to achieve in a particular avenue of work.

What should be the ultimate goal in everyone's opinions for all these clubs and partnerships to be delivering.

Is it the expansion of the game, The proliferation of juniors playing, is it Leagues club related is it premierships for the NRL franchise, retention of history or a mix???

I don't want to be inflammatory at all but I'm curios Whats everyone's take on what is the definition of success in a sentence or so.

For my its The WT winning grand Finals as often as possible.
 
The ultimate success is that WT is successful, with a clear and streamlined path for juniors from both areas, while allowing both clubs to exist at a senior tier in a semi professional league. By successful, I mean being competitive every year. You're not going to win a grand final every second year for a prolonged period as the salary cap makes it impossible without huge investment from non-club aligned third parties.

All things considered, I'd like it to get to a point where WT actually invests back into the two entities that created it and provides financial support to both Balmain and Western Suburbs. Both clubs own a piece of the successes that WT accrues and should be duly compensated for the development of players that the JV essentially siphons off them at the detriment to the foundation clubs.

For mine, I see it akin to a child looking after their elderly parents. Balmain and Wests have given enough and made enough sacrifices for the JV, and it's time that WT looked after them instead of consigning them to a death sentence.
 
@Cultured Bogan said:
The ultimate success is that WT is successful, with a clear and streamlined path for juniors from both areas, while allowing both clubs to exist at a senior tier in a semi professional league. By successful, I mean being competitive every year. You're not going to win a grand final every second year for a prolonged period as the salary cap makes it impossible without huge investment from non-club aligned third parties.

All things considered, I'd like it to get to a point where WT actually invests back into the two entities that created it and provides financial support to both Balmain and Western Suburbs. Both clubs own a piece of the successes that WT accrues and should be duly compensated for the development of players that the JV essentially siphons off them at the detriment to the foundation clubs.

For mine, I see it akin to a child looking after their elderly parents. Balmain and Wests have given enough and made enough sacrifices for the JV, and it's time that WT looked after them instead of consigning them to a death sentence.
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In this whole Balmain v Wests debacle that after 13 seasons still lingers this is the most sensible post I've read. Sadly there'll be 20 idiots who will still think your post is unfair and unjust.
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While I agree with Bogans post, sadly this will not happen. At the end of the day it is a business and to this business there are a whole heap of lines on the P & L statement. This is what is seen as important to WT.

In the back of their minds, I assume they are waiting till the current crop of fans roll over into a new crop of passionate fans. My boy onoly knows about the Magpies because I told him and I explained it to him. He really doesn't care, because they were never his team, his team has always been WT.

So when my generation goes or loses the passion for the footy, these arguments will not exist. Essentially the boards / members need to do what is best for WT, because if for any reason something happened to the WT franchise, we are left with sweet FA.
 
@Cultured Bogan said:
The ultimate success is that WT is successful, with a clear and streamlined path for juniors from both areas, while allowing both clubs to exist at a senior tier in a semi professional league. By successful, I mean being competitive every year. You're not going to win a grand final every second year for a prolonged period as the salary cap makes it impossible without huge investment from non-club aligned third parties.

All things considered, I'd like it to get to a point where WT actually invests back into the two entities that created it and provides financial support to both Balmain and Western Suburbs. Both clubs own a piece of the successes that WT accrues and should be duly compensated for the development of players that the JV essentially siphons off them at the detriment to the foundation clubs.

For mine, I see it akin to a child looking after their elderly parents. Balmain and Wests have given enough and made enough sacrifices for the JV, and it's time that WT looked after them instead of consigning them to a death sentence.
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Very true and honest in such a great post. The question people never ask is, If the WT were no longer going to fund either club because they only want a 2nd tier merger and both the foundation clubs dont want a bar of it, where will WT get their juniors from if Balmain and Magpies decide to stand alone.
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I think WT has a responsibility to both clubs to ensure their survival. It's not as though it's going to be a burden on them either, it's mutually beneficial.

It's not a matter of looking after the older fans etc, but protecting the entities and areas that supply WT with the bulk of their juniors and fanbase, even though it would seem that WT has a nondescript geographical location and is often seen as a "greater Sydney" club. The large contingent of fans over the age of 25 would have a previous allegiance to either Wests or Balmain and it's not in WT interest to let either or both disappear. These fans are also most likely to be the ones who pump the largest amount of membership and paraphernalia money into WT coffers.

Not looking after Wests and Balmain would see that if they both chose to stand alone, WT would essentially be forced to promote NYC players, and the fringe players in the top 25 wouldn't see week to week action in State Cup.

As one member has in their signature: Wests Tigers is not Balmain or the Magpies but Wests Tigers is nothing without the Magpies and Balmain.
 
@tigermaniac said:
where will WT get their juniors from if Balmain and Magpies decide to stand alone.
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If I were to hazard a guess they would continue with the current system and get juniors from all over and rather than identifying junior leagues they would funnel more funds into school scholarship programmes at St Gregs, Keebra and Holy Cross to bring through young talent under contract. That mixed with invite only trials would more than cover it all.

The game as a whole changed the minute the NYC competition began and junior districts have a much tougher job on their hands these days to maintain high quality rosters
 
I see the problem in the structuring of reserve grades. There should be a NYC like competition for open age reserve grade, that should mirror the NRL in name and scheduling. NYC is promoting bad defence, no real mature in attack and more injuries when they get a call up. Transform NYC into a open age reserve grade and keep QLD Cup and NSW cup for your youngsters and your overflow. This will create better quality players and more competition. This should of been done years ago.
 
Clubs like Penrith /Parr/dogs will be hoping that this group doesn't get it's act together as this group as a whole would be the largest and strongest in the sydney basin ..a few in management see this and can see the golden egg for everybody concerned right from junior level to the NRL across a massive area.This whole group is a sleeping giant just waiting to be kick started,I believe if all this vision is moved on the Weststigers group would be the strongest and most profitable in the sydney market.!
 
People need to put some things back into perspective - WT is a company owned by the Wests Group and Balmain FC. The current structure of the company includes a reliance of both football clubs to operate WT. $$ from leagues club and juniors and players from both football clubs.

The financial status of balmain leagues club/ football club is a much more significant issue for WT than the nsw cup situation.

Think of the issues the Titans have with their property side, souths having to rely on anz stadium gate guarantees, manly in financial strife (leagues club) , newcastle relying on tinkler and of course the ongoing dramas with cronulla.

WT are in a similar issue with the finances of Balmain. This also flows on directly to Junior league clubs and nsw cup side.

The Proposal from WT for a single NSW cup side and other administrative control has some benefits but things don't necessarily improve financially as a whole if balmain don't have the ongoing incoming funds or even worse, a multi million $$ debt. Wests Campbeltown leagues may also rethink their stake in the JV if balmain cannot meet their contribution to the JV.

How that pans out with the JV constitution remains to be seen.

Watch this space.
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@wtfl1981 said:
People need to put some things back into perspective - WT is a company owned by the Wests Group and Balmain FC. The current structure of the company includes a reliance of both football clubs to operate WT. $$ from leagues club and juniors and players from both football clubs.

The financial status of balmain leagues club/ football club is a much more significant issue for WT than the nsw cup situation.

Think of the issues the Titans have with their property side, souths having to rely on anz stadium gate guarantees, manly in financial strife (leagues club) , newcastle relying on tinkler and of course the ongoing dramas with cronulla.

WT are in a similar issue with the finances of Balmain. This also flows on directly to Junior league clubs and nsw cup side.

The Proposal from WT for a single NSW cup side and other administrative control has some benefits but things don't necessarily improve financially as a whole if balmain don't have the ongoing incoming funds or even worse, a multi million $$ debt. Wests Campbeltown leagues may also rethink their stake in the JV if balmain cannot meet their contribution to the JV.

How that pans out with the JV constitution remains to be seen.

Watch this space.
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You are all hoping..be careful what you wish for !
 
@willow said:
@galahs said:
I hear Wests Tigers have drawn up a 1 A4 page 'White Paper' on their proposition.

Where are the facts figures, definitive plans that are to ensure us the future is safe in their hands?

There are none. Once again it is all lip service.

don't right of the Magpie board just yet people. They are far from convinced that Wests Tigers plan is the best thing for the district. And remember, the Magpies constitution as a district club is to do what is best for the district…. not just the Wests Tigers.

Do you think, or suspect Wests will oppose the white paper that Wests Tigers are proposing to put forward galahs?
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I am certain the Magpies will consider the paper on its merits.
 
@galahs said:
In the end, money talks and bulldust walks…
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Yep and without the supporters from the Balmain side of things the whole thing falls apart. Both sides need each other - that was the case in 1999, that is the case in 2012\. Any talk about anyone going it alone is just garbage.
 
Even if the Wests Group gets control of the Wests Tigers, i do not expect that they will disband them. That would be bad for all concerned.
 
You would of thought that a meeting of all the stakeholders would be a yearly occurence NOT a first. Actually glad its taking place, but under different circumstances.

Like it was said previously, the Wests Tigers are a sleeping giant. It's time for all stakeholders to come to mutual agreement and map the pathway to success for the joint venture.
 
@galahs said:
In the end, money talks and bulldust walks…
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You Wests blokes are kidding yourselves… The ARLC would withdraw the Franchise Agreement at the end of the 2012 season if any of this became a reality. The logic in punting Gallop was for his love affair in keeping all the existing Franchises. The ARLC wants Sydney Culled to expand the competition into 'other' territories, while keeping the 16 Team Format.

They already have a shortlist, do you want to give them a new name to add to it?!
 
Yeah, That would be a good Idea…. They're operation systems are paramount!!
The Wests group can't even harmonize internally, Maybe they should work on that??
The Balmain Leagues club may be in trouble, But the Football operations from Kids to firsts cannot be questioned!!
Should the Wests Group gain control of the WT (Which is pure fantasy, I have more chance of controlling them!!)
and disband them as your subtley suggesting... It will only prove what everyone in the broader community already knows....

@galahs said:
Even if the Wests Group gets control of the Wests Tigers, i do not expect that they will disband them. That would be bad for all concerned.
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I'm a WT for life. I was a Magpie before that. I cannot get over the way people are reacting. To me it seems if Balmain Leagues doesn't go ahead their supporters don't want anything in the shape of the Wests group. Sounds like fear. Rest your worries. Personally I'd like to see Rozelle go ahead. But please put your focus towards your cause. Support what you have. In all honesty when the to clubs merged it hurt, but I was so glad it was with the Tigers. This helped me moving forward and accepting.
Now let's fast forward to the current. Ever since I've joined this forum, reading day in day out its become Tigers/Magpies Magpies/Tigers. Its taken me back to the past and may start a anger towards the other half. I don't want that. I believe we have a good thing going and great things coming. The Magpies can never go it alone, leaving the rest of the family behind. If that were to happen, they'd lose me and many others.
WT forever.
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If these posts are directed to mine in some idea that i suggest the magpies are going alone - that is NOT my suggestion

My point was regarding the significant matter of a broke half of the JV and how that affects WT.

No suggestion that magpies would return to NRL level.

Balmain FC/Leagues Club financial is a serious matter, its not about history and tradition of saving a football club brand - its $$$

Cronulla are sweating on a property deveoplment to survive. If that falls through, cronulla may be banished.
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