mike
Well-known member
WT have much better go forward when Mcllwrick is on. Liddle is hot and cold. Liddle threw some shockers from Dummy Half.
Liddle/mcllwrick
- Thread starter Nucky_Thompson
- Start date
Club_Sandwich
New member
McIlwrick looks head and shoulders better than Liddle at this stage. His defence is solid and his passes out of dummy half are just that little bit better. It's these 1 percenters that make a massive difference.
Think MM and JL need to swap again for the rest of the year. We need to go with who's the bed 9 now.
Think MM and JL need to swap again for the rest of the year. We need to go with who's the bed 9 now.
Coastie_Tiger
Well-known member
I would start with MM but I think this is more to do with Ivan planning ahead and testing both players, we may see things switch around again in the near future.
@ said:
Its not about right or wrong, this is just a stage in Liddles development..different experiences.
Hes got a long way to go, but hes learning
Cleary is managing this brilliantly MM is slightly better ATM than Liddle. That said Liddle is not far off and a rookie who was the best junior hooker of his age group.
He has upside but this time an older head to help him out unlike Broses. Liddle is 20 and needs to play at 90-95kgs this will come in 18 months.
He has upside but this time an older head to help him out unlike Broses. Liddle is 20 and needs to play at 90-95kgs this will come in 18 months.
@ said:
Agree Ink - it is all about getting practical experience. Cleary is giving him that opportunity whilst we are down the table - no good of trying to do this in 2018 when we are trying to go for a finals spot.
McIlwrick is a good DH, a very hard hitter in defence and is playing well - no argument there. However Liddle is quick, a good defender and a creative DH - this is where the future lies and I think Cleary thinks that as well. MM is not doing anything wrong, however I don't think he is capable of playing 80 minutes for a whole NRL season with his dodgy knees.
Masterton
Well-known member
I struggle to split them at the moment, but I think Liddle's quality doesn't reduce so much with longer minutes, and Killer has more impact in a shorter stint.
Nucky_Thompson
New member
@ said:
That's fine but why can't mm get more game time than 10 minutes
G
Guest
Guest
@ said:
Disagree. McIlwrick was good when he came on, but I believe Liddle provides better service and offers more in attack.
I read all the above comments before I had the chance to watch the game so I was expecting to see Liddle have a shocker and almost cost us the game on more than one occasion.
Fortunately that wasn't the case.
Don't be blinded by the size and age difference between the two players.
Liddle is a career hooker. The fact that he looks like he isn't really doing much but still putting up good numbers is a testament to his composure and his in game awareness.
He never looks rattled in defence and attack and just keeps going on about his business. He is always sceaming on the field and the only issue is his body and mind is still catching up with the speed of the NRL.
That being said. Although Liddle looks small. He actually has quite a solid frame. I've seen him in person and his a lot larger then you would think. His defence is always front on and second to ET would have to be one of our most effective in controlling a tackle from start to finish.
I don't have a love affair with the Kid it's just how I see it.
It's the first time we've had a hooker that can tackle high, not get pushed back and controll the ruck.
Massive difference in defence with Liddle starting.
Mc Killwik is an excellent fill in hooker, is solid in contact and possesses a good running game. Not an overly creative hooker but provides the right amount of impact. I like them both and I think the interchange although unfortunate for Mc is done at the right time with the experience of a solid player in to finish off the game.
Fortunately that wasn't the case.
Don't be blinded by the size and age difference between the two players.
Liddle is a career hooker. The fact that he looks like he isn't really doing much but still putting up good numbers is a testament to his composure and his in game awareness.
He never looks rattled in defence and attack and just keeps going on about his business. He is always sceaming on the field and the only issue is his body and mind is still catching up with the speed of the NRL.
That being said. Although Liddle looks small. He actually has quite a solid frame. I've seen him in person and his a lot larger then you would think. His defence is always front on and second to ET would have to be one of our most effective in controlling a tackle from start to finish.
I don't have a love affair with the Kid it's just how I see it.
It's the first time we've had a hooker that can tackle high, not get pushed back and controll the ruck.
Massive difference in defence with Liddle starting.
Mc Killwik is an excellent fill in hooker, is solid in contact and possesses a good running game. Not an overly creative hooker but provides the right amount of impact. I like them both and I think the interchange although unfortunate for Mc is done at the right time with the experience of a solid player in to finish off the game.
WestsBenTigers
New member
At this stage, they are probably even but long-term Liddle is going to be a far better player. I like how Cleary is giving Liddle more minutes to see if he can handle it, which I think he can. But having MM on the bench playing 10 minutes is a waste. I am excited by Liddle and his defense is excellent and will only grow in size and strength, his attack speaks for itself. His service out of dummy half is good but probably not quite as good as McIllwrick. If I was Cleary, I would give MM 55 minutes and Liddle 25 minutes at the backend of games. But long-term, Liddle is our (and possibly NSW) #9\. I am confident Cleary's decision will be the best for the team long-term and short-term.
It took Robbie Farah a couple of years to find his game does anyone remember his first year or two? , I think Cleary see's this with Liddle " The natural potential factor"..The really encouraging sign for me was his 40..20 kick attempt that fell short..he does seem to have a foot when he kicks albeit it didn't stand out today..he needs to wrestle a little more in defence but I think Cleary is doing the right thing…not a bad rep;lament hooker either next year if his injured.
Pawsandclaws
New member
Not only do I think Liddle will be our hooker next year, but in the not too distant future he will end up as our captain.
jirskyr
Well-known member
I'd be curious to know why Cleary swapped Liddle and MMc starting positions a few rounds back. Based on their current strengths, I think the ideal situation is opening with MMc then bringing Liddle on when the game opens up a bit. Saves Liddle the heavy defence and gives him some space to run.
I'd be all for bringing MMc back on as a lock for the late-stages of a game, esp if we are defending a lead, I think he is fairly strong in the carry, he's canny for when he runs and his defence is good.
I'd be all for bringing MMc back on as a lock for the late-stages of a game, esp if we are defending a lead, I think he is fairly strong in the carry, he's canny for when he runs and his defence is good.
Tigerstruck
Active member
At the moment I do think that MM is a much better option at dummy half, but I can't see him excelling much further than where he is at now.
Whereas with Liddle, I think he has so much 'natural potential', which Cleary has been trying to experiment with in the last few weeks. Give him the last ten or so rounds plus a pre-season next year and I think that he will excel past MM, and will eventually achieve a very bright future for NSW and possibly even Australia.
Whereas with Liddle, I think he has so much 'natural potential', which Cleary has been trying to experiment with in the last few weeks. Give him the last ten or so rounds plus a pre-season next year and I think that he will excel past MM, and will eventually achieve a very bright future for NSW and possibly even Australia.
balmain boy
Well-known member
MMc did start the season well but started to taper off in the middle of the season. I think the fact people had low expectations and then he suddenly was out-performing those initially made everyone think he was going better than he was. He also has some minor ongoing knee issues which need to be managed.
He was and is doing a good job, and so is Liddle. Liddle is probably a better defender even though it's early in his career. He's also the second quickest player in the squad and considering how slow we are as a whole his pace is crucial. He does throw a few flat balls which have the potential to be called forward but they won't more often than not. Something to work on.
I also liked the fact in put in a very good long range kick and a couple of short ones too. Another part of his game to work on and he's doing so.
IMO Liddle is currently the best young hooker in the league. Better than Brailey, Levi etc. He's still got to take that potential and deliver on it but so far he is.
Ava was in the way for that pass. Asleep at the wheel he was. Liddle maybe should have just run the ball (Ava should have been ready to catch it in any case) but he'll learn from that.
He was and is doing a good job, and so is Liddle. Liddle is probably a better defender even though it's early in his career. He's also the second quickest player in the squad and considering how slow we are as a whole his pace is crucial. He does throw a few flat balls which have the potential to be called forward but they won't more often than not. Something to work on.
I also liked the fact in put in a very good long range kick and a couple of short ones too. Another part of his game to work on and he's doing so.
IMO Liddle is currently the best young hooker in the league. Better than Brailey, Levi etc. He's still got to take that potential and deliver on it but so far he is.
Ava was in the way for that pass. Asleep at the wheel he was. Liddle maybe should have just run the ball (Ava should have been ready to catch it in any case) but he'll learn from that.
Very selective memories on Liddles game from a few of you.
That was not Ava's fault, it was a shocking pass which was finishing off a disgusting set of dummy half incompetence which including a couple of forward passes and absolutely no creativity or direction.
Dont get me wrong, i like Liddle but he has many errors in his game. He aims for the flashy play over the 1%ers. He has a long way to go. Our best option is MM until the apprenticeship is completed.
That was not Ava's fault, it was a shocking pass which was finishing off a disgusting set of dummy half incompetence which including a couple of forward passes and absolutely no creativity or direction.
Dont get me wrong, i like Liddle but he has many errors in his game. He aims for the flashy play over the 1%ers. He has a long way to go. Our best option is MM until the apprenticeship is completed.
VanillaThunder
New member
@ said:
I'm of the same opinion, but just spitballing, maybe it's because Liddle provides more options in attack? He's more dynamic and while he's solid defensively, he doesn't have the effect of Kiwi and that can be compensated more with our starting props. Bringing McIlwrick on with our back-up pigs forces us to play more direct and holds the middle a bit tighter too, both general issues we've had previously when going to the bench. May also help once the halves have settled in and making sure we don't get too carried away playing sideways when we aren't really moving forward as much.
I'd like to see the minutes split a bit more evenly, but I can't reasonably expect two interchanges on a hooker, so it becomes tough to manage.
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