LIVE game discussion. Tigers Team Vs Penrith - Trial#2

[hank37w]

I did a deep dive on this overnight (https://weststigersforum.com/threads/wests-tigers-deep-dive-of-the-week.36357/post-2232698)- putting my AD bias aside. After doing the analysis I came to the conclusion that this isn't really a question of AD or Madden and who is a better number 7.

Fans will have one of two positions:

• If you think the team’s biggest issue has been a lack of physicality and unpredictability, then AD at halfback makes sense.
• If you think the bigger issue has been game control, territorial discipline, and structural clarity — particularly when Luai is forced into over-management — then Jock Madden is the logical selection.

The real issue that needs to be considered is what is the root cause of our inconsistency — lack of power, or lack of control? If you answer that honestly the solution presents itself and until the club answers that honestly, they are picking names; not building a system.

. . . . . . . and Benji's answer to this I believe is,

"I have already made up my mind and I won't be swayed."

 

[Jolls]

. . . . . . . and Benji's answer to this I believe is,

"I have already made up my mind and I won't be swayed."

I made this assumption up front in the deep dive. The purpose of it wasn't to say who should be playing round 2, but more an analysis of what we need in a 7 and who is best suited, on paper, to provide that. The opportunity to do a like for like comparison was missed on Friday night - so what you state about Benji's decision is most likely correct.

 

[gregjm87]

My worry with AD is he is very much a run first player & that was evident on Friday night. Did Turuva or Starford even see the ball? KPP will be nonexistent if that's how AD is gonna play.

My concerns also. I mentioned a couple months ago I hope we have plays designed for AD to run off KPP so we utilise KPPs skill and ADs running

 

[TheEnz]

The issue with AD is that he wants to create something every time he handles the ball. I cant recall him regularly being a link man in a sweep play consistently throughout a game and then choosing his moment. If he can get this sorted perhaps he can be a gun 7. Unlike some others on this forum i am not sold on the games he played at 7 last year as none were really typical 7 games. Perhaps the manic way he plays is because he has never had the role and was always auditioning for it hence the overplaying of his hand. Lets see how this plays out, the good thing is we do have options now in Madden, Latu and Andrews.

 

[king_sirro]

My concerns also. I mentioned a couple months ago I hope we have plays designed for AD to run off KPP so we utilise KPPs skill and ADs running

Can AD square up the defense to allow the space for KPP to punch through and then offload? I imagine a half who can provide that for KPP then skip around him to receive the offload would be a nice play. I can picture Latu and Madden doing it, not so much AD.

Anyway, I think I need to drop this subject now because the more I talk about it the more I'm convinced Benji is making a huge mistake, lol.

 

[gregjm87]

Can AD square up the defense to allow the space for KPP to punch through and then offload? I imagine a half who can provide that for KPP then skip around him to receive the offload would be a nice play. I can picture Latu and Madden doing it, not so much AD.

Anyway, I think I need to drop this subject now because the more I talk about it the more I'm convinced Benji is making a huge mistake, lol.

Can he? Yes, of course. But it is not a natural play for him. It is one type of play that should be drilled into them during the preseason. It shouldn't be difficult to learn but given it's not a natural play for AD it needs be practised.
I guess if Madden was making the exact same play the question becomes has he got the speed or the strength through the hips to break through the lunging defence after he receives the offload. Just because the play is more natural for Madden he isn't necessarily better suited to it.

 

[Rock Hopper Steve]

Can AD square up the defense to allow the space for KPP to punch through and then offload? I imagine a half who can provide that for KPP then skip around him to receive the offload would be a nice play. I can picture Latu and Madden doing it, not so much AD.

Anyway, I think I need to drop this subject now because the more I talk about it the more I'm convinced Benji is making a huge mistake, lol.

We spent good money to get KPP here for a reason, if Doueihi cannot deliver good early ball to him then he should be shafted from 7, if Benji doesn't recognise it and do so, he hasn't progressed as a coach from one season to the next.

Maybe we seen Adam overplay his hand on Friday because KPP was out of the game late, then tried to do too much, just throwing that out there.

But if we don't use KPP to his strengths then he might as well have stayed at the Knights and get used as a permanent decoy, his talent should be utilized.

 

[Jolls]

Can he? Yes, of course. But it is not a natural play for him. It is one type of play that should be drilled into them during the preseason. It shouldn't be difficult to learn but given it's not a natural play for AD it needs be practised.
I guess if Madden was making the exact same play the question becomes has he got the speed or the strength through the hips to break through the lunging defence after he receives the offload. Just because the play is more natural for Madden he isn't necessarily better suited to it.

This is exactly the the dilemma I expect that Benji is facing. AD and Jock have tow different sytles of play. AD = Power Play whereas Jock = orcehstrated play. As a result - despite what we would prefer FG and Cup are going to play two different styles of attacking football.

For the most part we the first 30 minutes agaisnt Penrith were similar in attack to 2025. The biggest change was in our defensive minset and trying to win the ruck. This was a big improvement over 2025.

We didn't get it right all of the time but having AD in the defensive line at half shores up that corridor. Madden, certailny doesn't have the defensive strenght of AD (when his attitude is right).

Given the FG side were playing a simplied attack there were good signs - more bodies in motion and some good shape on the left edge. AD's size and his penchant for running may lead to a few tries; however, the good teams are likely work him out quickly and bottle him, starving the right edge of quality ball. If he has worked on promoting when the defence collapses on him to negate his strength he didn't demonstrate it against Penrith. We did demonstrate this exact skill set on the left edge that resulted in a couple of meat pies.

Our right edge with AD as the link needs a lot of work - based on what was demonstrated on Friday. Let's trust that he gets enough reps in before round 2.

 

[Rock Hopper Steve]

This is exactly the the dilemma I expect that Benji is facing. AD and Jock have tow different sytles of play. AD = Power Play whereas Jock = orcehstrated play. As a result - despite what we would prefer FG and Cup are going to play two different styles of attacking football.

For the most part we the first 30 minutes agaisnt Penrith were similar in attack to 2025. The biggest change was in our defensive minset and trying to win the ruck. This was a big improvement over 2025.

We didn't get it right all of the time but having AD in the defensive line at half shores up that corridor. Madden, certailny doesn't have the defensive strenght of AD (when his attitude is right).

Given the FG side were playing a simplied attack there were good signs - more bodies in motion and some good shape on the left edge. AD's size and his penchant for running may lead to a few tries; however, the good teams are likely work him out quickly and bottle him, starving the right edge of quality ball. If he has worked on promoting when the defence collapses on him to negate his strength he didn't demonstrate it against Penrith. We did demonstrate this exact skill set on the left edge that resulted in a couple of meat pies.

Our right edge with AD as the link needs a lot of work - based on what was demonstrated on Friday. Let's trust that he gets enough reps in before round 2.

With the extended bench out to 19 I would be very surprised if Jock's not on it early considering Latu isn't back for a while.

If Adam stinks up the right-side attack he would be hooked by a good coach to bring Madden on.

Lol let's not get carried away the season hasn't even started yet to be critical of him, he might surprise us all.

 

[king_sirro]

Can he? Yes, of course. But it is not a natural play for him. It is one type of play that should be drilled into them during the preseason. It shouldn't be difficult to learn but given it's not a natural play for AD it needs be practised.
I guess if Madden was making the exact same play the question becomes has he got the speed or the strength through the hips to break through the lunging defence after he receives the offload. Just because the play is more natural for Madden he isn't necessarily better suited to it.

I think Madden has the initial acceleration to do it. He is quite sharp when he puts his foot down. Obviously AD is a genuine tackle breaking ball runner. His ability to be difficult to handle carrying the ball is great. For me I think it looks like a personality thing with Doueihi. I dont see him having the personality to adjust for the team. He seems pretty settled on his own self belief of what he can do and provide, and hes backing himself to bring that. He doesn't come across as someone who gets a kick out of unleashing others while he goes somewhat unnoticed. I could be wrong on that of course.