Looking towards 2018 by dropping players

bigsiro

bigsiro

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In order to make finals footy and make the top 8 you generally need around 30 pts.
We are currently on 8 pts.
We have 12 more games + a bye (potential 26 pts).
So, if we won all of our remaining games we would be on 34 points. Probably good for 6th place.
If we won 10 out of 12 we would scrape into the 8.

Reality check: We will be lucky to win 5 of our remaining games.

If you disagree and think we can still make the top 8, then you have an incredible optimism (understatement) and this topic is probably not really speaking to you. It is really addressing those here that are honest enough to be resigned to another year of abject failure.

So, WHY ARE TEDDY, WOODS AND AVA STILL BEING SELECTED?!
HOW ON EARTH IS WOODS STILL OUR CAPTAIN?!

They are taking valuable real-estate and proper opportunities away from players that actually want to play here and be on the bus.
It beggars belief!!

I get it if we were still a chance of making the top 8\. But come on. Point is, even if we take our personal opinions of these guys out of the equation it still doesn't make objective sense.
Wayne Bennett has dropped Ben Hunt and they are still in the mix for top 4 and even minor premiers! (It might be slightly different circumstances but the principle remains.)

I'm wracking my brain, trying to think of answers/objections as to why they are still being selected:
- For the fans: So many of us get no pleasure watching Teddy and Woods in our colours anymore. Quite the opposite, they are a turn off. So, can’t be for the fans.
- They are the best we have: That is true, but how is that working out? There is just no “I” in team. Even if they were one-man-teams, are we winning because of them? No. Are we playing better for them being there? Hardly. Are they beacons of light to our youngsters? Hilarious! Seriously, what positive contribution towards our future are Woods and Teddy providing at the moment? And if you believe that they are of value, is it worth the opportunity cost? It simply can’t be. These guys are sunk costs and we should realize that immediately.
- Cleary still thinks we can make the 8\. If so: (a) why not let 2018 players take us there? and (b) if we lose 2/3 more games and are no longer even a mathematical chance, would he drop them then?
-Pressure from media, Laurie Daley? Des? Politis? Meh. That would be absurd.
Are we a charity football team that just keeps players fit and healthy so that they can be prepped to play well for our direct competitors?
What the?! Are we a nursery now?! It sure feels like it! It's madness!
It's embarrassing.

I just cannot get my head around it. This season is so bad as it is, but it doesn't have to be a complete write-off because we can prepare best for 2018 by fielding a team that supporters and teammates can get behind. Is this going to happen? If so, when? If not, why not?
 
I see your point but without Teddy especially, we potentially suffer some even bigger spankings for the rest of the year which in turns destroys the whole team's confidence. Do you think we can win 5 games without arguably our best attacking weapon?

BTW, I am confident we can finish in the top 14\. That's optimistic.
 
Cleary isn't as emotional and jaded as most of us. Probably answers the majority of your post.
 
Yeah dropping Ben Hunt is different, you got that right. He got injured and in his absence Kodi Nikorima played well. Then he has Benji in reserve.

Tigers are very similar to the outline of this scenario - starting half signs elsewhere (Moses), form drops, hamstring injury to halfback. Except for us the departing person is already gone and the injured person is the other half. We promote JLJ and he does absolutely nothing to endear confidence. Our reserve option is Jordan Rankin, who makes an aged Benji look like Cooper Cronk.

You can't drop Woods and Tedesco, they are so clearly our best options in those positions. Even if everyone knows and accepts we won't make the 8 this year, any coach will still pick the best players if there are no good backups. Maybe in the last few rounds you can see the strong changes you'd like, but even then we have such a roster overhaul due in 2018, really how much difference would it make?

For example, ok drop Woods and Ava. That leaves you with the starting prop pairing of Grant and Sue (only options really) and Felise is already playing, so you would call up two other forwards, which would have to be Eisenhuth and Edwards, in that order (based on the current reserves list). Next in line after that you have maybe Junior Tatola.

So you would drop Woods and Ava to bring in Eisenhuth and Edwards. A pack of Grant, Sue, Lovett, Marsters, ET, Felise, Eisenhuth, Edwards. That could be one of the most ordinary packs we've ever fielded. Then you do your kids no good throwing them into the teeth of top-form experienced opposition with little senior support.

I get where you are coming from but Woods and Ava have been replaced by players who are arriving 2018\. Tedesco is one of the only options we have to actually win games, and although his replacement is here already, the halves weakness prevents that swap.

I would be happy to see more aggressive selection options on the fringe of first grade, e.g. Lovett and guys like that, happy to see them get swapped around.
 
Because tanking's for AFL clubs. Doesn't matter if you've already got the minor premiership sewn up or you're guaranteed the spoon, you put your best side on the park and you play to win.

Same reason the boys still hit the ball up hard when they're 30 points down. We don't always expect the boys to win, but we do expect them to have the best dig they can.

If a club were to start throwing games that would leave a long lasting, toxic legacy on the club's culture.
 
If we were building from within for 2018, then you may have a good point, but the fact is most of our 2018 side are out there playing for other clubs at the moment.
I certainly hope we give Suli, Marsters, Liddle et al a longer leash and a good run in the team this year, as they'll be there next year.
Woods and Tedesco were our best players last week, and probably will be for most games this season, so it'd be ridiculous to drop them, and create more of a disturbance than leaving them in the 17.

That said, I am a bit surprised that Woods is still getting the armband. I actually thought he'd give it up after the garbage around the move, and certainly thought Ivan would push him in that direction if not.
 
Geez the IQ of this forum is in steep decline.

Why would any coach in his right mind drop the Tedesco and Woods? OK, they signed for someone else next year, that's next year, not now.

Moses deserves all the crap he gets but the other 2 (& Ava) still wear our colours.

No we won't make the finals but we can still win games. I thought we would do OK with Cleary coming in with wins against the Cowboys and Bulldogs but all the nonsense with Moses wanting out every single day at training has obviously had an effect on the playing group. It would get under my skin if I was a team mate.
 
The club needs to field its best possible side every week. Club sponsors and partners do not want to be linked to massive thrashings and the bad publicity that would come with it.

If we had a few players in the wings that were crying out for selection, maybe you would consider it, but for the players staying they need to have Teddy and Woods around them, other wise they are going to get lapped every week.

Certainly I would have pulled the captains rug from under Woods, but we need to be as competitive as possible for the remainder of the year
 
I agree with the OP…I think we should take the Newcastle approach and play a complete reserve grade side like they did in 2016 so they could get experience and serge up the ladder in 2017...
 
Woods and Tedesco are our 2 best players and generally perform like it, they have to be picked if fit.They certainly have let the club and supporters down and deserve condemnation in the way they handled their departure for 2018.Dropping them would achieve nothing good and only blow out the losses as we have zero adequate replacements.
This year has been a total fiasco with the team being under prepared during the off season and a few early massacres the shambles over the player retention.We have little depth at the club this year.For once i believe we have someone capable of getting the club on a good footing.2018 cant come quick enough for me
 
Playing Lolohea at fullback whilst Tedesco is on duty with SOO will be a great learning experience test. Giving Marsters and Liddle 80 minutes stints will be the same.
 
Whether we can make the 8 or not, would still be good to avoid having the spoon on our record. We'd probably be the worst team in the comp for the rest of the year too.. Doesn't make for entertaining viewing. Would do more damage to our club than anything.
 
Cleary doesnt have a lot of options to work with this year
Add to the fact he is only new and just starting to getting to know the players, their training ethics and their skill levels.

Changes will be made im sure as the year goes on but dont expect 8 players getting dropped and seeing fresh faces all at the one time

It just isnt practical
 
Because you always select your best available players that are contracted to your club regardless of where they are signed for the following year. Dropping a player should only happen based on poor form or for disciplinary reasons.
The last thing we need is coaches welding the axe because the system allows clubs to negotiate contracts at the beginning of the year.
 
I get where the op is coming from and I'd like to see it happen to Woods and Tedesco but not Ava. I can understand Ava leaving and he did it with more class than the other cretins (money without any lies being told).

We will though have a completely different team next year and I can see the point of just trying to win as many games as possible. I think Taylor had the approach that winning didn't matter but it does.
 
@ said:
I agree with the OP…I think we should take the Newcastle approach and play a complete reserve grade side like they did in 2016 so they could get experience and serge up the ladder in 2017...
Click to expand...

Geez that went well didn't it
Or was that a tongue in cheek comment :laughing:
 
Rather not get the wooden spoon…
 
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