Lui or Moltzen?

[bonstonker]

Doesn't change my opinion that given the same game time at half Moltzen would prove superior.

that's because you won't open your eyes.
as i have said before, moltzen does not promote the ball at the line.
last week against the broncos he had ayshford unmarked and he took the tackle.
a certain try bombed.there was plenty of space and time for the pass.
again this week he doesn't pass and a simple try turns into a huge effort.
defend his inside and you stuff him.

he did this before injury and in every position he plays.
sure,he will pass when there is a retreating line,but under pressure he simply will not pass.
i don't see that as a good trait for a half for the wests tigers style.
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lui on the other hand has all the skills and natural instincts to transfer to a successful half over time.
lui is by no means perfect.and neither was benji or anybody else at 21.
the good sign is that i haven't seen him hit that development wall in the nrl.
my only concern on lui is durability.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Doesn't change my opinion that given the same game time at half Moltzen would prove superior.

**that's because you won't open your eyes.
as i have said before, moltzen does not promote the ball at the line.
last week against the broncos he had ayshford unmarked and he took the tackle.
a certain try bombed.there was plenty of space and time for the pass.
again this week he doesn't pass and a simple try turns into a huge effort.
defend his inside and you stuff him.\
\
he did this before injury and in every position he plays.
sure,he will pass when there is a retreating line,but under pressure he simply will not pass.
i don't see that as a good trait for a half for the wests tigers style.\
\
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lui on the other hand has all the skills and natural instincts to transfer to a successful half over time.
lui is by no means perfect.and neither was benji or anybody else at 21.
the good sign is that i haven't seen him hit that development wall in the nrl.
my only concern on lui is durability.**

Smart comment.

Moltzen left an unmarked Brown posted twice yesterday, the first time he almost butchered a try, and it was lucky that Heighington crashed over, and the second time he went to ground instead of putting it outside to Brown who was already at pace.

Lui is by no means perfect. He makes mistakes but is improving at a rapid rate and his kicking game got us on the front foot yesterday, forced an error by getting the ball outside Dugan and putting him in two minds, and this despite the fact we played a large portion of the first 20-30 mins in our own territory. He's not afraid to take on the line, can find a hole and he has a superior passing game. Moltzen is talented as well no doubt about it, but he is lacking confidence at this point and his inclusion at the moment is to the detriment of the team.

 

[cktiger]

Doesn't change my opinion that given the same game time at half Moltzen would prove superior.

that's because you won't open your eyes.
as i have said before, moltzen does not promote the ball at the line.
last week against the broncos he had ayshford unmarked and he took the tackle.
a certain try bombed.there was plenty of space and time for the pass.
again this week he doesn't pass and a simple try turns into a huge effort.
defend his inside and you stuff him.

he did this before injury and in every position he plays.
sure,he will pass when there is a retreating line,but under pressure he simply will not pass.
i don't see that as a good trait for a half for the wests tigers style.
\
\
lui on the other hand has all the skills and natural instincts to transfer to a successful half over time.
lui is by no means perfect.and neither was benji or anybody else at 21.
the good sign is that i haven't seen him hit that development wall in the nrl.
my only concern on lui is durability.

You are welcome to your opinion , as I am to mine , but you are basing it on Moltzen playing out of position..
Seem to recall him putting a pretty good ball away recently for us to score ( under pressure against a team defending their line) .
Maybe you should have a look at some of the dumb things Lui does under pressure.
Like passing ( under pressure) into an opposition players head among other things
He is also a woeful one on one defender ( see Broncos game for recent proof)
As for what Moltzen did or didn't do over the last few weeks doesn't relate to the fact I regard him as being a better half because he hasn't been playing there.
In saying all that I don't think Lui is a bad player. He's a young guy and will obviously get better.
Everbody's entitled to their opinion - we agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Eddie]

For the laast 8-9 months this has been the most laughable debate going around.

Lui has all the attributes of a class halfback. Attributes he is showing more and more every time he takes the field. He is going to be an outstanding halfback, and is already an accomplised one.

Moltzen, No sorry, not in his class.

 

[bonstonker]

Doesn't change my opinion that given the same game time at half Moltzen would prove superior.

that's because you won't open your eyes.
as i have said before, moltzen does not promote the ball at the line.
last week against the broncos he had ayshford unmarked and he took the tackle.
a certain try bombed.there was plenty of space and time for the pass.
again this week he doesn't pass and a simple try turns into a huge effort.
defend his inside and you stuff him.

he did this before injury and in every position he plays.
sure,he will pass when there is a retreating line,but under pressure he simply will not pass.
i don't see that as a good trait for a half for the wests tigers style.
\
\
lui on the other hand has all the skills and natural instincts to transfer to a successful half over time.
lui is by no means perfect.and neither was benji or anybody else at 21.
the good sign is that i haven't seen him hit that development wall in the nrl.
my only concern on lui is durability.

You are welcome to your opinion , as I am to mine , but you are basing it on Moltzen playing out of position..
Seem to recall him putting a pretty good ball away recently for us to score ( under pressure against a team defending their line) .
Maybe you should have a look at some of the dumb things Lui does under pressure.
Like passing ( under pressure) into an opposition players head among other things
He is also a woeful one on one defender ( see Broncos game for recent proof)
As for what Moltzen did or didn't do over the last few weeks doesn't relate to the fact I regard him as being a better half because he hasn't been playing there.
In saying all that I don't think Lui is a bad player. He's a young guy and will obviously get better.
Everbody's entitled to their opinion - we agree to disagree on this one.

again,open your eyes.
the pass you refer to was his pass against the bunnies while the line was retreating and sliding.when moltzen received the ball the defense was 9 yards out,when he passed they were 2 yards out.
that is not defending your line.no wonder souths defense sucks.

moltzen not passing has nothing to do with his position on the field.i've never heard anything so ridiculous.
it is a skill he hasn't developed and i doubt ever will.his first instinct is to plant the foot and dummy.
the reason lawrence is so great in attack is because he not only is he a great runner but he also has the hands to promote the ball to his outside man even under extreme pressure.position on the field has nothing to do with it.
take off the blinkers.

of course lui has mistakes in him.nobody in their right mind would deny that.it comes with the territory.
i simply look at their skill set and their instincts to judge.
i weigh the good and the bad.
i know lui isn't a great defender,but i also accept where he is at this stage of his career and accept the weakness in this area.it is the trade off you make with a 21 year old while developing them in first grade.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Great post bonstoker, agree entirely.

As I've said previously, Lui has much more strings to his bow than Moltzen. I am not bagging him, but there is no way Moltzen can play in the halves for us if both Lui and Marshall are fit. Which may not be as often as we would all like as Lui has already been injured a fair few times in his short career.

One other aspect of his game he has all over Moltzen is his kicking game. Find me a game where Moltzen has kicked as consistently good as Lui did yesterday.

 

[cktiger]

Don't think we need go tit-for tat bonstonker.
Plenty agree with your view and plenty with mine.
I only made the point about that pass ( and even you must admit it was a good pass) because you say he never does.
In my opinion plenty of people put on the blinkers when they talk about Lui - but thats ok it's a forum where people express what they think.

 

[Goose]

For the laast 8-9 months this has been the most laughable debate going around.

Lui has all the attributes of a class halfback. Attributes he is showing more and more every time he takes the field. He is going to be an outstanding halfback, and is already an accomplised one.

Moltzen, No sorry, not in his class.

these are exactly the comments i am talking about!

Lui was very good yesterday, best game I've seen him play.

He is a long way from accomplished half, he is very much learning and has huge raw skill flaws at the moment, His passing, particuarly left to right misses alot, and his kicking is inconsistent.

case in point the fifita try, a simple left to right draw and pass to ryan and he missed by some margin, luckilly ryan held it and was able to get the ball to fifita.
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Lui has talent, but so does moltzen, give both of them time to develop.

 

[sunshine_coast_tiger]

For the laast 8-9 months this has been the most laughable debate going around.

Lui has all the attributes of a class halfback. Attributes he is showing more and more every time he takes the field. He is going to be an outstanding halfback, and is already an accomplised one.

Moltzen, No sorry, not in his class.

x2

 

[Joel Helmes]

Lui is the second best halfback this club has ever had and gets better the more games he plays.

If Lui and Miller weren't around I reckon Moltzen could become a good NRL halfback, if I was him however I would be looking to ply my trade at five-eight, that's his natural position imo.

 

[southerntiger]

Lui is turning into a class halfback. Great performance on the weekend. Well ahead of Moltz as others have said.

Vindicates Sheens decision to promote a green 19 year-old two years ago. Doubt he would be this far developed if he had spent his time in NYC or State Cup.

Agree with Bon. Moltz' decision making is too slow for a first grade half back. Reminds me a bit of J Mo.
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[Peaches]

Lui is turning into a class halfback. Great performance on the weekend. Well ahead of Moltz as others have said.

Vindicates Sheens decision to promote a green 19 year-old two years ago. Doubt he would be this far developed if he had spent his time in NYC or State Cup.

Agree with Bon. Moltz' decision making is too slow for a first grade half back. Reminds me a bit of J Mo.
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Starting to agree with this a lot. Moltzen may have to move to another club if he wants a permanent spot in the halves. Lui is top class. Give him another season or two he will be even better. Talented halfbacks don't fall off trees. Cronulla would or should pay massive overs for him. Someone like him takes them to the semis. Similar to someone like Sandow who Bennett says will play origin for Queensland very soon.

 

[jtigerman]

Just on a sidenote with the whole Moltzen/Brown back up fullback role I'd like to see them share the role when McKinnon is out and they are both named. The only reason I can come up with that Sheens picks Moltzen ahead of Brown is due to his support play and his ability to chime into the backline as an extra playmaker (similar to Slater although not at his level obviously).

So what I would like to see is Brown sitting in the fullback position in defence but after running the ball back and playing the ball have him move in to the centre position with Moltzen moving to fullback. I feel that this could work and end up giving us the best of both worlds.

Once we get everyone back though and it becomes unlikely that both would be in the starting team I would go for Brown as first choice.

 

[AmericanHistoryX]

lui - daylight - moltzen

 

[sunshine_coast_tiger]

For me all the Chris Sandow contract saga has shown is how important it is to be upgrading Robert Lui to a new long term contract ASAP. Robert Lui as I have stated many times will be the most valuable player off contract when his deal is up at the end of next year. The tigers management would be very wise to get Robert Lui signed before other clubs start sniffing around ( I think they are already). The Tigers have been good to Robert Lui and I am sure he wants to stay but would be tempted by offers to move back to Queensland. Hopefully Tim Sheens staying will lead to Robert Lui staying.

 

[Demps]

For me all the Chris Sandow contract saga has shown is how important it is to be upgrading Robert Lui to a new long term contract ASAP. Robert Lui as I have stated many times will be the most valuable player off contract when his deal is up at the end of next year. The tigers management would be very wise to get Robert Lui signed before other clubs start sniffing around ( I think they are already). The Tigers have been good to Robert Lui and I am sure he wants to stay but would be tempted by offers to move back to Queensland. Hopefully Tim Sheens staying will lead to Robert Lui staying.

x2

 

[happy_tiger]

x3 You would think that Prince will be almost finished by then Lets hope that he decides to stay though

 

[MightyMaggy]

The problem with Lui in the team is that we rely on having him as another ball-player and kicker. And he can do neither of those things at first grade level. In Toyota Cup when 1 out of 10 kicks go well it looks good: in first grade it's embarrassing.

When Lui receives the ball on the 5th tackle it is a foregone conclusion that a crap kick will ensue or some other bonehead play. If it was left to Benji/Farah that would be a MUCH better option.

Lui is slow and predictable. He is not first grade standard at this stage and the sooner he is relegated to NSW Comp the better the Tigers will go.

The games he was out we played better footy. Win or lose, it was better.

Moltzen is a damn sight better. Hands down.

Agree with cktiger and Lukic above, except that he won't play for QLD.

Are you sure you have been watching Lui? Maybe you are getting him mixed up with some-one else?

Lui and Miller are the best halves in the Club and both will be even better in the future.

 

[sunshine_coast_tiger]

x3 You would think that Prince will be almost finished by then Lets hope that he decides to stay though

I am most worried about North Queensland that is his home. Him and Thruston would be a top halves combination. I still think he will stay, I think he has settled in well at our club. Queenslands halves are all getting older, if Robert Lui keeps progressing at his current rate he will be a regular in he Queensland team in about 3 years ( I wish he was a NSW player, I would pick him now he is better than any current NSW halfback).

 

[BeanStew55]

I believe that robert lui actually played very well last week, I take back the bad things that I said about him. Tim Moltzen you have a long way to go if you want to be like robert lui.