Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[BZN]

Think this is worth a listen.
https://youtu.be/fwL3Pl3JjLs

Just listening to that. Agree completely.

Problem is I’m not confident he’s getting the say he should around player signings. Probably due to the mess Ivan created.

[/QUOTE]

The players are soft mentally and the toughen up message is not getting through ie the players are un-coachable to the standard required and needed to get us into the semi's imo.
Tamou might be saying the rite words 'off the field', but the fact he is a plodder, he is not setting the example for his team to follow 'on the field'.
We need a few players like JWH to lead our young blokes forward.
Of our current young bunch I feel Mikalee is the only one that may be able to stand up and show what's required.
Of the others...Packer showed true grit a few times as did J Leilua...but the best of all was Luke Brooks when he landed one on the jaw of a much larger opposing forward last year.

 

[Lauren]

All coaches are struggling with defensive structures bar the two clubs laden with the best attack in the competition. Even the great Wayne Bennett had no answer once his key players are not on the park - losing 50 nil is not the sign of a well coached side - it is the sign of a side who can't compete with the opposition.

I agree with this and feel some are underselling just how much Madge and the team has to do in order to play to their best.

During discussions about the lack of pride and passion for both Tommy games, someone put it kindly that due to who (most of) our players are and where they’ve come from, it unfortunately wouldn’t have been enough to personally motivate (all) players. So I wonder how we work through it, as naturally it’s not going to be the first time the team encounters an important or must-win game.

The criticisms about consistency, effort and attitude highlight the fact that not every player will bring the same impact to the team due to their own individual levels of experience, skills, ability and standards.
We’ve basically brought a bunch of guys together that had never played together and unless you’re a group of representative players that have shared the same responsibilities and team objectives - or have enough presence to lift the team - it was always going to be a mammoth task to get everyone on the same page.
(Bulldogs are probably the closest team to us as making a similar amount of team changes, and we can all see how that’s going for them)
We’ve spent one off-season preparing and 9 games to build on this, so it’s any wonder we cannot sustain the intensity and effort as a unit when they wouldn’t know the ins and outs of each other’s games yet. They wouldn’t know who’s coming or going….

I’m not as disappointed as most because there’s enough signs to see we’re building positively in some areas and I’ve been realistic that it will take time to get the team playing cohesively. My one complaint is about our leadership group and how they can be using this role to make it much easier for their teammates to fulfil theirs.

 

[The_Patriot]

Starting to see signs of the senior playing group tanking. They really only play well when behind on the scoreboard. It isn't the get beat by 50 to get the coach sacked kind of tanking but they aren't really giving 100%.

Can't see much changing anytime soon.

Maguire has his work cut out winning them back.

 

[BZN]

We cannot lurch from one crisis to the next. The Board has to act this week.


If the board do what you suggest lurching from one crisis to the next is EXACTLY what we would be doing.We need stability until the end of 2023 when Madges contract ends

But.......IF Madge is the cause of the instability, due to the fact he cant get his message across to this current mob, it seems to me we are going to have 'nothing but instability' until the end of his contract.

And I hate to say it as it may only be sheer coincidence, but to me our decline seems to have gained most momentum since Hagipantellis has come on board.


Madge is the catalyst for much needed change (more hard nosed professionalism from the players and hopefully the club).Just about every WT supporter knows its been needed for years.The cause of the instability is some players dont want to do the hard yards and are soft mentally.We need Madge to change our culture to what Balmain and the Magpies stood for,blokes who never gave up and played for each other we need the hunger back in our club/team.
I know Robbie Farah had many critics but he always tried his heart out and was fuming if we lost.We need that sort of attitude throughout the club and team.I get the impression Madge is trying to bring that back to our club.What i wouldnt give to have a young Gareth Ellis at the club we just have to hope some of young players coming through get to his level.

Mate sorry for the rant but i honestly worry if the board dont support him and cut short his term because it will be another 10 years imo of failure

[/QUOTE]

I've been flip floppin with regard to my feelings about Madge, but I am now firmly convinced he is the the coach we need at least until the end of his contract, and we see what happens then :slightly_smiling_face: .

 

[clontarfkid]

All coaches are struggling with defensive structures bar the two clubs laden with the best attack in the competition. Even the great Wayne Bennett had no answer once his key players are not on the park - losing 50 nil is not the sign of a well coached side - it is the sign of a side who can't compete with the opposition.

I agree with this and feel some are underselling just how much Madge and the team has to do in order to play to their best.

During discussions about the lack of pride and passion for both Tommy games, someone put it kindly that due to who (most of) our players are and where they’ve come from, it unfortunately wouldn’t have been enough to personally motivate (all) players. So I wonder how we work through it, as naturally it’s not going to be the first time the team encounters an important or must-win game.

The criticisms about consistency, effort and attitude highlight the fact that not every player will bring the same impact to the team due to their own individual levels of experience, skills, ability and standards.
We’ve basically brought a bunch of guys together that had never played together and unless you’re a group of representative players that have shared the same responsibilities and team objectives - or have enough presence to lift the team - it was always going to be a mammoth task to get everyone on the same page.
(Bulldogs are probably the closest team to us as making a similar amount of team changes, and we can all see how that’s going for them)
We’ve spent one off-season preparing and 9 games to build on this, so it’s any wonder we cannot sustain the intensity and effort as a unit when they wouldn’t know the ins and outs of each other’s games yet. They wouldn’t know who’s coming or going….

I’m not as disappointed as most because there’s enough signs to see we’re building positively in some areas and I’ve been realistic that it will take time to get the team playing cohesively. My one complaint is about our leadership group and how they can be using this role to make it much easier for their teammates to fulfil theirs.

Sorry..theyre professional athletes,and very well paid ones at that...theres absolutely no excuse for their recent performances
Some of our supposed "best"are just asleep when the gun goes off...theyve either heard it all b4 from Madge(quite possible),but critically have little pride in their own performances and zero ownership or accountability and/or care factor
Theres something missing..I really dont know what it is.Probably a couple of strong leaders by example(remember Heighno?).Thats what Tamaou was brought in for .but he's been all hot air(and a very slow moving one at that!).Adds nothing.
Altho not premiership material,we dont have a "terrible"team,and deserve to be a lot better than 15th
Appreciate Madge aint Bellamy,but its the playing group who are hot and cold

 

[happy_tiger]

bugger sacking the coach

sack the board.....
start over, board overhall, get some Labour hire blokes in to the the job


Welcome back my apprentice

Not for long your padawan is back in the cooler ...probably for good this time

He might get a guest appearance occasionally like Demps did

 

[Cairnstigers]

My two cents
Madge won’t get the teams in the semis , next year either and I think his limitations as a head coach has truly been exposed. And I don’t think he is capable of landing big fish that the young guys need to develop (bulldogs seemingly recruiting much better and apparently in box seat to get Brandon smith and they will be ahead of tigers next year )

In saying that I would keep him to complete the job on junior pathways and regenerating the squad . I would sack him next year to have a new coach to try entice some big names.

I also feel people don’t seem to understand how the NRL has screwed the non performing clubs with this ridiculous 30 man squad idea . Madge is limited on who he can actually bring in, as can only use players in top 30 and if they are not performing in reggies , he can’t do squat .
If we had the old 2nd tier salary cap and main salary cap . Clubs would have more depth and have ability to bring any young person having a stand out year to see if worth giving a nrl contract

Maybe it should be a top 21 for each club and a reduced cap
The talent pool needs to be spread more evenly
Having a top 30 is the icing on the cake for the strong teams
Imagine if clubs only had $7,000,000 to spend on the top 21 players
Then you can have 35 reserves on minimum wage ( no 3rd party)
Reserves can play 1st grade but are minimum wage players only
Surly it would force the strong teams to release some of their talent pool to teams like our

We want 16 competitive teams
Not a top half and bottom half
That is the real problem with this Nrl Competition

 

[Furious1]

Starting to see signs of the senior playing group tanking. They really only play well when behind on the scoreboard. It isn't the get beat by 50 to get the coach sacked kind of tanking but they aren't really giving 100%.

Can't see much changing anytime soon.

Maguire has his work cut out winning them back.

I dont about that mate. Joffa was having a real dig the other night trying to get the boys going, so much so that i think it was when Joey scored he turned out to Nofos way and motioned to "get in here" and celebrate type action, Joey L had his best game in the first half and Tamou wasn't sitting on the bench when he was off, he was standing closer to the sideline constantly screaming out to them to get up and show some line speed. I know they are definitely getting frustrated, it was very evident when we had our chances down on the line only to see the wrong options taken. You could actually hear the players swearing where i was.
You may be right with Noffo, tried his heart out in the 2nd half, but didn't look the slightest bit interested in the 1st. Obviously copped a spray at halftime.

I'm always a believer in halves can't do much without the forwards dominating, but when the forwards do have a go and work hard, it must be incredibly frustrating to see all their hard work undone by errors, whether it be by execution or poor decision making and unfortunately it is not a one off.

 

[BZN]

How's the Sharkies going since parting way with Morris..

The situation is very different with the Sharks. Morris had the Sharks to two top 8 finishes and most feel he was harshly treated. Word among Sharks' supporters here is that he was very popular with players.

Hasn't helped them much tho from the outside looking in...

Who would turn their nose at two top 8 finishes? If WTs managed that we'd be in raptures. Look where we are and some supporters are still backing Maguire. He'd be out the door quick smart at many clubs.

I'm saying sacking Morris hasn't turned the Sharks around this season at all...

True but if it is being used as a reason not to sack Maguire then the scenarios are completely different. Morris has results at the Sharks, Maguire doesn't at WTs.?‍♀️

The point is it's not going to improve the situation.

New coach, fresh ideas, new approach to speaking to and managing players can make a huge different. I hope the Board takes decisive action.

If you get a good coach. Personally I don't like Madge's tough guy approach but maybe that is what this club needs. He inherited a mess and I think the situation at the club is improving.

Shouting etc doesn't work when players stop listening.

It doesn't work anyway. It's like people believe it's effort that we are lacking. It's not effort it's poor execution.

Maguire has to go this week. New coach, fresh ideas, new player management and speaking with them to improve performance. We don't even need to win but demonstrate improvement whilst the reality is we've gone backwards. Doueihi coming out and supporting Maguire, is that view shared by other players? Do some players want to play with others?

I hope he stays for the moment but I get what you are stating.

I still think we are building a better club. Our reserve team are doing well. We have had terrible cap management and it is being unwound and it will get better over time if we stay the course.

I also see positives in relation to recruitment in other ways. Doueihi is a good example but so is Hastings even if he doesn't work out. Our halfback doesn't appear to be a top quality first grader and it's impacting us.

We also appear to be buying better forwards.

My complaint about Maguire is the team isn't performing and the ranting and raving really doesn't help. Honestly I think Bellamy is a fool in relation to how he acts. I think it's unprofessional but I think Bellamy and Madge are pretty similar. Maybe Bellamy is better at coming up with tactics but we'll never know because his teams are stacked with talented players.

If we chose the right coach, there is no reason Hartigan cannot keep the junior recruitment and development ticking along.

We cannot lurch from one crisis to the next. The Board has to act this week.


They do, and you get your wish.

You’re showing no semblance of an idea around businesses/sports teams (,or how they work) though and is why petitions are made for Pascoe to resign.

Petitions for Pascoe to resign are like throwing petrol on a fire.

If you want total and probably destructive turmoil in our club...

Having Madge sacked before the end of this year would be disruptive enough by itself....

Then sacking Pascoe added disruption....

But wait for it.......the B. Elias takeover of our club resulting in more disruption still, would bring our club to its knees...

And....... I have been thinking maybe...just maybe...this is what the Elias consortium of 'faceless characters' are attempting to do.

Elias would be the end of the Wests Tigers. The club would fold.

:100: agree young fella.
For me personally having R. Farah back is bad enough, but [buy one] B.Elias and probably get one free M. Moses in control of our club would see me out.

 

[BAGNF05]

Think this is worth a listen.
https://youtu.be/fwL3Pl3JjLs

Just listening to that. Agree completely.

Problem is I’m not confident he’s getting the say he should around player signings. Probably due to the mess Ivan created.

The Leilua brothers and James roberts. That’s what we give Madge to work with when he needs mentally tough. Let that sink in.

Lol he signed them?

So it’s Hartigan when it works out and Madge when it fails?

 

[The_Patriot]

Starting to see signs of the senior playing group tanking. They really only play well when behind on the scoreboard. It isn't the get beat by 50 to get the coach sacked kind of tanking but they aren't really giving 100%.

Can't see much changing anytime soon.

Maguire has his work cut out winning them back.

I dont about that mate. Joffa was having a real dig the other night trying to get the boys going, so much so that i think it was when Joey scored he turned out to Nofos way and motioned to "get in here" and celebrate type action, Joey L had his best game in the first half and Tamou wasn't sitting on the bench when he was off, he was standing closer to the sideline constantly screaming out to them to get up and show some line speed. I know they are definitely getting frustrated, it was very evident when we had our chances down on the line only to see the wrong options taken. You could actually hear the players swearing where i was.
You may be right with Noffo, tried his heart out in the 2nd half, but didn't look the slightest bit interested in the 1st. Obviously copped a spray at halftime.

I'm always a believer in halves can't do much without the forwards dominating, but when the forwards do have a go and work hard, it must be incredibly frustrating to see all their hard work undone by errors, whether it be by execution or poor decision making and unfortunately it is not a one off.

Keep looking.

I was at the game and saw things like a Titans kick recovered on our 15m line and a group of Tigers players, 5 or 6 of them not even bothering to get back to help out. It was only on the 4th tackle that all players were back on side. This was repeated in other effort areas through the night.

I see players who do absolutely nothing until they are behind on the scoreboard, then suddenly they show some effort to save a little face.

As i said its not the old style tanking so maybe a little harder to see but there is a large part of this team not giving 100%. Just doing enough not to be called out.

Just another case of our players going off the coach when the coach asks them for more professionalism. They are not playing for him. They are not putting in for him.

We either sack the coach or we ride this out.

I prefer to ride it out and put the emphasis on the under performing players but this is going to get ugly before it gets better.

 

[BZN]

Think this is worth a listen.

Just listening to that. Agree completely.

Problem is I’m not confident he’s getting the say he should around player signings. Probably due to the mess Ivan created.

Yep, can't stand Kent but he's got this right. The irony is yesterday they were playing to celebrate the career of one of the toughest players you'd ever see and they showed none of the guts he showed week in and week out. In my opinion they are 5 imported players away from winning games on a regular basis and I can't see where they are going to come from.

I’ve read this so many times …. How do players playing in a celebration game ever replicate the the characteristics of the player they are celebrating? How are any of these players ever going to do things Raudonikis was renowned for?

All they could do is yell out “cattle dog!”

No, I am with you. I don't get why anyone is suggesting one regular-season game or another is "more significant". Especially for Tigers, I would actually be quite annoyed if they played great in a "Tommy tribute match" and then went back to mediocrity the following week. Professional footballers, they are supposed to be up for it every week.

E.g. I was at the Wayne Pearce send-off at LO in 1990, and Balmain had everything to play for, and were still a good side, made the finals that year (5th out of 16 teams), lost Junior's final home match. Parra did not play finals, finished below us on the table.

It's media BS that somehow a Tommy tribute match should mean a better or more consistent effort from a team running 2nd-last. If Steve Mortimer was to die next week, would Bulldogs suddenly improve as a side the week after?

Secondly, the opposition doesn't care and I don't think, when you are actually playing football, that Tigers players are thinking so about the Raudonikis legacy. Most of those guys out there have little to no affiliation with the Magpies; a bunch of them weren't even born when Magpies merged and I wonder how many of them even met Tommy or whether he has any relevance to they they play football.

It doesnt necessarily have to be about Wests Magpies or the Magpies jersey.

It's about the man that Tommy Raudonikis was...

About the toughness and pride and passion he played with.

And if our blokes cant pick up on that and use it as an incentive, a bit of inspiration to play that little bit harder, to put a bit more oomph in their game, I think they just don't get it and need to be replaced with blokes that do get it!!!

And I am sorry that you dont get that!!!

 

[pawsandclaws1]

My two cents
Madge won’t get the teams in the semis , next year either and I think his limitations as a head coach has truly been exposed. And I don’t think he is capable of landing big fish that the young guys need to develop (bulldogs seemingly recruiting much better and apparently in box seat to get Brandon smith and they will be ahead of tigers next year )

In saying that I would keep him to complete the job on junior pathways and regenerating the squad . I would sack him next year to have a new coach to try entice some big names.

I also feel people don’t seem to understand how the NRL has screwed the non performing clubs with this ridiculous 30 man squad idea . Madge is limited on who he can actually bring in, as can only use players in top 30 and if they are not performing in reggies , he can’t do squat .
If we had the old 2nd tier salary cap and main salary cap . Clubs would have more depth and have ability to bring any young person having a stand out year to see if worth giving a nrl contract

Good post and it was enjoyable to read. The only difference I have is the timing of his departure. He should go now. A new coach should have the entire $ available to attract and buy players. We've gone backwards and we should be improving although I am not expecting us to win. Also, I have enormous respect for Tommy and Wests, but we shouldn't need such an occasion as a reason to compete. Maguire should have them up for it and can't do it.

 

[Lauren]

Sorry I can't seem to respond the usual way @clontarfkid.

I'm not excusing their performances at all but looking at it from another perspective - the constraints and challenges Madge and the team are (or have been) up against. The reasons why we haven't been able to effectively achieve certain objectives as a team etc.,
There's too much attention being given to player's measurables and not enough to their ability. So I'm simply redirecting some focus on our performances and speculating on why we're shooting ourselves in the foot.
I care more about the value of what someone can bring to the team and how we get it out of them, than their worth TBF.

 

[TillLindemann]

Think this is worth a listen.
https://youtu.be/fwL3Pl3JjLs

Just listening to that. Agree completely.

Problem is I’m not confident he’s getting the say he should around player signings. Probably due to the mess Ivan created.

Yep, can't stand Kent but he's got this right. The irony is yesterday they were playing to celebrate the career of one of the toughest players you'd ever see and they showed none of the guts he showed week in and week out. In my opinion they are 5 imported players away from winning games on a regular basis and I can't see where they are going to come from.

Whilst I agree the players are not superstars, Madge can't attract the players we need, he has a really bad reputation, and that is a huge hurdle that we can't overcome, I still say sack him

That's just a garbage myth that gets recycled endlessly. He has a great reputation with players, and players who previously knew him from outside the Tigers have willingly re-joined him here. Adam D, Zane Musgrove are two off the top of my head, but there's more.

 

[BZN]

Think this is worth a listen.
https://youtu.be/fwL3Pl3JjLs

Just listening to that. Agree completely.

Problem is I’m not confident he’s getting the say he should around player signings. Probably due to the mess Ivan created.

Yep, can't stand Kent but he's got this right. The irony is yesterday they were playing to celebrate the career of one of the toughest players you'd ever see and they showed none of the guts he showed week in and week out. In my opinion they are 5 imported players away from winning games on a regular basis and I can't see where they are going to come from.

I’ve read this so many times …. How do players playing in a celebration game ever replicate the the characteristics of the player they are celebrating? How are any of these players ever going to do things Raudonikis was renowned for?

All they could do is yell out “cattle dog!”

:100: correct @cqtiger they couldn't....not yet anyway.

But what they could have done was show a bit more ticker during Tommy's memorial matches.

Even then they would only be playing with half the determination that Tommy showed in every game.

If they achieve that they will have then earned the right to use an immortals 'cattle dog' call as ongoing inspiration to play the way we all want them to play in every game.

 

[TillLindemann]

How's the Sharkies going since parting way with Morris..

Different situation, they were going ok until they decided to punt Morris, we on the other hand are going like a busted, I say sign Morris, he is more in touch with NRL 2021 than Madge 2014

Morris is a good bloke who has done pretty well in a relatively brief period. But he does not have a long term proven track record. He is therefore a gamble. Say we sign him next week, and in 2023 we still haven't made the 8. What then?

Pretty well? With the situation at the Sharks when he took over Morris did an excellent job. He from all accounts in the Shire has the respect and admiration of players. Two final 8 appearances when he was considered an interim. How would we accept to final 8 appearances? A three year tenure with two final 8 appearances is a good regime.

Seibold made the 8 too, then went belly up. Long term proven track record, preferably including premierships, is what we need. And it's what we have. Signing a young coach who's had a couple of years experience is the last thing this club needs. It would be a big gamble.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

How's the Sharkies going since parting way with Morris..

Different situation, they were going ok until they decided to punt Morris, we on the other hand are going like a busted, I say sign Morris, he is more in touch with NRL 2021 than Madge 2014

Morris is a good bloke who has done pretty well in a relatively brief period. But he does not have a long term proven track record. He is therefore a gamble. Say we sign him next week, and in 2023 we still haven't made the 8. What then?

Pretty well? With the situation at the Sharks when he took over Morris did an excellent job. He from all accounts in the Shire has the respect and admiration of players. Two final 8 appearances when he was considered an interim. How would we accept to final 8 appearances? A three year tenure with two final 8 appearances is a good regime.

Seibold made the 8 too, then went belly up. Long term proven track record, preferably including premierships, is what we need. And it's what we have. Signing a young coach who's had a couple of years experience is the last thing this club needs. It would be a big gamble.

You've raised some good issues. We're not going to change one another's views on a football forum but again enjoyable to read.

 

[avocadoontoast]

Think this is worth a listen.
https://youtu.be/fwL3Pl3JjLs

Just listening to that. Agree completely.

Problem is I’m not confident he’s getting the say he should around player signings. Probably due to the mess Ivan created.

Yep, can't stand Kent but he's got this right. The irony is yesterday they were playing to celebrate the career of one of the toughest players you'd ever see and they showed none of the guts he showed week in and week out. In my opinion they are 5 imported players away from winning games on a regular basis and I can't see where they are going to come from.

Whilst I agree the players are not superstars, Madge can't attract the players we need, he has a really bad reputation, and that is a huge hurdle that we can't overcome, I still say sack him

That's just a garbage myth that gets recycled endlessly. He has a great reputation with players, and players who previously knew him from outside the Tigers have willingly re-joined him here. Adam D, Zane Musgrove are two off the top of my head, but there's more.

You've pretty much proved it's not a garbage myth at all and that it's 100% accurate. He signed AD because he couldn't get a start at the Rabbitohs and Musgrove was (and still is) an average bit player who will remain in reserve grade.

It's hard to think of a coach who has less appeal.

 

[TillLindemann]

How's the Sharkies going since parting way with Morris..

Different situation, they were going ok until they decided to punt Morris, we on the other hand are going like a busted, I say sign Morris, he is more in touch with NRL 2021 than Madge 2014

Morris is a good bloke who has done pretty well in a relatively brief period. But he does not have a long term proven track record. He is therefore a gamble. Say we sign him next week, and in 2023 we still haven't made the 8. What then?

Pretty well? With the situation at the Sharks when he took over Morris did an excellent job. He from all accounts in the Shire has the respect and admiration of players. Two final 8 appearances when he was considered an interim. How would we accept to final 8 appearances? A three year tenure with two final 8 appearances is a good regime.

Seibold made the 8 too, then went belly up. Long term proven track record, preferably including premierships, is what we need. And it's what we have. Signing a young coach who's had a couple of years experience is the last thing this club needs. It would be a big gamble.

You've raised some good issues. We're not going to change one another's views on a football forum but again enjoyable to read.

Likewise mate, cheers.