Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[pawsandclaws1]

How's the Sharkies going since parting way with Morris..

Different situation, they were going ok until they decided to punt Morris, we on the other hand are going like a busted, I say sign Morris, he is more in touch with NRL 2021 than Madge 2014

Morris is a good bloke who has done pretty well in a relatively brief period. But he does not have a long term proven track record. He is therefore a gamble. Say we sign him next week, and in 2023 we still haven't made the 8. What then?

Pretty well? With the situation at the Sharks when he took over Morris did an excellent job. He from all accounts in the Shire has the respect and admiration of players. Two final 8 appearances when he was considered an interim. How would we accept to final 8 appearances? A three year tenure with two final 8 appearances is a good regime.

 

[cqtiger]

Think this is worth a listen.
https://youtu.be/fwL3Pl3JjLs

Just listening to that. Agree completely.

Problem is I’m not confident he’s getting the say he should around player signings. Probably due to the mess Ivan created.

Yep, can't stand Kent but he's got this right. The irony is yesterday they were playing to celebrate the career of one of the toughest players you'd ever see and they showed none of the guts he showed week in and week out. In my opinion they are 5 imported players away from winning games on a regular basis and I can't see where they are going to come from.

I’ve read this so many times …. How do players playing in a celebration game ever replicate the the characteristics of the player they are celebrating? How are any of these players ever going to do things Raudonikis was renowned for?

All they could do is yell out “cattle dog!”

 

[coivtny]

Think this is worth a listen.
https://youtu.be/fwL3Pl3JjLs

Just listening to that. Agree completely.

Problem is I’m not confident he’s getting the say he should around player signings. Probably due to the mess Ivan created.

Yep, can't stand Kent but he's got this right. The irony is yesterday they were playing to celebrate the career of one of the toughest players you'd ever see and they showed none of the guts he showed week in and week out. In my opinion they are 5 imported players away from winning games on a regular basis and I can't see where they are going to come from.

I’ve read this so many times …. How do players playing in a celebration game ever replicate the the characteristics of the player they are celebrating? How are any of these players ever going to do things Raudonikis was renowned for?

All they could do is yell out “cattle dog!”

Not too difficult a concept, really.

 

[cqtiger]

Think this is worth a listen.
https://youtu.be/fwL3Pl3JjLs

Just listening to that. Agree completely.

Problem is I’m not confident he’s getting the say he should around player signings. Probably due to the mess Ivan created.

Yep, can't stand Kent but he's got this right. The irony is yesterday they were playing to celebrate the career of one of the toughest players you'd ever see and they showed none of the guts he showed week in and week out. In my opinion they are 5 imported players away from winning games on a regular basis and I can't see where they are going to come from.

I’ve read this so many times …. How do players playing in a celebration game ever replicate the the characteristics of the player they are celebrating? How are any of these players ever going to do things Raudonikis was renowned for?

All they could do is yell out “cattle dog!”

Not too difficult a concept, really.

You got that right - it’s only a concept

 

[mike]

How's the Sharkies going since parting way with Morris..

The situation is very different with the Sharks. Morris had the Sharks to two top 8 finishes and most feel he was harshly treated. Word among Sharks' supporters here is that he was very popular with players.

Hasn't helped them much tho from the outside looking in...

Who would turn their nose at two top 8 finishes? If WTs managed that we'd be in raptures. Look where we are and some supporters are still backing Maguire. He'd be out the door quick smart at many clubs.

I'm saying sacking Morris hasn't turned the Sharks around this season at all...

True but if it is being used as a reason not to sack Maguire then the scenarios are completely different. Morris has results at the Sharks, Maguire doesn't at WTs.?‍♀️

The point is it's not going to improve the situation.

New coach, fresh ideas, new approach to speaking to and managing players can make a huge different. I hope the Board takes decisive action.

If you get a good coach. Personally I don't like Madge's tough guy approach but maybe that is what this club needs. He inherited a mess and I think the situation at the club is improving.

Shouting etc doesn't work when players stop listening.

It doesn't work anyway. It's like people believe it's effort that we are lacking. It's not effort it's poor execution.

Maguire has to go this week. New coach, fresh ideas, new player management and speaking with them to improve performance. We don't even need to win but demonstrate improvement whilst the reality is we've gone backwards. Doueihi coming out and supporting Maguire, is that view shared by other players? Do some players want to play with others?

I hope he stays for the moment but I get what you are stating.

I still think we are building a better club. Our reserve team are doing well. We have had terrible cap management and it is being unwound and it will get better over time if we stay the course.

I also see positives in relation to recruitment in other ways. Doueihi is a good example but so is Hastings even if he doesn't work out. Our halfback doesn't appear to be a top quality first grader and it's impacting us.

We also appear to be buying better forwards.

My complaint about Maguire is the team isn't performing and the ranting and raving really doesn't help. Honestly I think Bellamy is a fool in relation to how he acts. I think it's unprofessional but I think Bellamy and Madge are pretty similar. Maybe Bellamy is better at coming up with tactics but we'll never know because his teams are stacked with talented players.

If we chose the right coach, there is no reason Hartigan cannot keep the junior recruitment and development ticking along.

We cannot lurch from one crisis to the next. The Board has to act this week.


They do, and you get your wish.

You’re showing no semblance of an idea around businesses/sports teams (,or how they work) though and is why petitions are made for Pascoe to resign.

Petitions for Pascoe to resign are like throwing petrol on a fire.

If you want total and probably destructive turmoil in our club...

Having Madge sacked before the end of this year would be disruptive enough by itself....

Then sacking Pascoe added disruption....

But wait for it.......the B. Elias takeover of our club resulting in more disruption still, would bring our club to its knees...

And....... I have been thinking maybe...just maybe...this is what the Elias consortium of 'faceless characters' are attempting to do.

Elias would be the end of the Wests Tigers. The club would fold.

 

[hank37w]

How's the Sharkies going since parting way with Morris..

The situation is very different with the Sharks. Morris had the Sharks to two top 8 finishes and most feel he was harshly treated. Word among Sharks' supporters here is that he was very popular with players.

Hasn't helped them much tho from the outside looking in...

Who would turn their nose at two top 8 finishes? If WTs managed that we'd be in raptures. Look where we are and some supporters are still backing Maguire. He'd be out the door quick smart at many clubs.

I'm saying sacking Morris hasn't turned the Sharks around this season at all...

True but if it is being used as a reason not to sack Maguire then the scenarios are completely different. Morris has results at the Sharks, Maguire doesn't at WTs.?‍♀️

The point is it's not going to improve the situation.

New coach, fresh ideas, new approach to speaking to and managing players can make a huge different. I hope the Board takes decisive action.

If you get a good coach. Personally I don't like Madge's tough guy approach but maybe that is what this club needs. He inherited a mess and I think the situation at the club is improving.

Shouting etc doesn't work when players stop listening.

It doesn't work anyway. It's like people believe it's effort that we are lacking. It's not effort it's poor execution.

Maguire has to go this week. New coach, fresh ideas, new player management and speaking with them to improve performance. We don't even need to win but demonstrate improvement whilst the reality is we've gone backwards. Doueihi coming out and supporting Maguire, is that view shared by other players? Do some players want to play with others?

I hope he stays for the moment but I get what you are stating.

I still think we are building a better club. Our reserve team are doing well. We have had terrible cap management and it is being unwound and it will get better over time if we stay the course.

I also see positives in relation to recruitment in other ways. Doueihi is a good example but so is Hastings even if he doesn't work out. Our halfback doesn't appear to be a top quality first grader and it's impacting us.

We also appear to be buying better forwards.

My complaint about Maguire is the team isn't performing and the ranting and raving really doesn't help. Honestly I think Bellamy is a fool in relation to how he acts. I think it's unprofessional but I think Bellamy and Madge are pretty similar. Maybe Bellamy is better at coming up with tactics but we'll never know because his teams are stacked with talented players.

If we chose the right coach, there is no reason Hartigan cannot keep the junior recruitment and development ticking along.

We cannot lurch from one crisis to the next. The Board has to act this week.

What Wests Tigers need more than anything is stability. Sacking the coach again is not the answer. Sacking players who don’t perform is.

I think I have to agree with you on this one, I think we need the stability and Madge needs to see out his contract and see how things turn out.

As some others have suggested on here, if our lower grade teams perform well, then there is the option of possibly promoting a lower grade coach to NRL level along with some of the players that he has had success with.

 

[TigerSJ]

I understand that there has to be a question as to why our guys don’t seem to have the hunger or desire to push themselves or put in the effort for 80 mins for their jersey or fans. The immediate response is the Coach isn’t getting through to them, or his game plan and footy style is not working with this group.
However, I’m not sure its that simple. Changing head coach again seems a desperate measure when what we need is stability. Also it assumes that there is a better coach available who can take the same group and somehow turn them into a finals team. Whatever people think of Madges playing style there is no getting around the fact that our guys refuse to or are unable to, put in the effort to defend aggressively and with any real purpose. Defense is nearly all attitude and effort and that is an essential aspect of every team in the NRL and I don’t think that changes with a different coach.
So, in my mind its a lot more about the makeup of our group and the lack of quality competitors and experience than it is about Madge.

 

[hank37w]

Think this is worth a listen.
https://youtu.be/fwL3Pl3JjLs

Haven't always been the biggest fan of Paul Kent but gee it's hard to disagree with anything that was said there.

It hurts but it's true.

 

[hank37w]

Buy a house off the plan and try to move in after the slab is poured.
But wait there's no walls! Sack the builder!
Ok new builder the walls are up lets move in, hang on no roof! Sack the builder!
Etc Etc ad-nauseum.
This is Wests Tigers constructions fan club to a T.

I get all that mate, but what I don't get is why our defence is soo bad when our coach focuses so much on defence?

Defence is about effort, commitment, not talent. If the effort and commitment aren't there, surely that's on the coach?

Not really mate,a coach can only coach so much,particularly to a team with young inexperienced players,you know the saying "learn by your mistakes "and our young blokes make plenty as well as the experienced players...once Madge gets to unify them into his way of playing the wins will come...Let me tell you BJ,Tamou,Mbye,Joe O have all come from different systems and have to adjust to Madges system while he TEACHES the young guys the NRL structures needed to be competative..
I will say this once again...to me Madge is the coach,no different from Potter,JT,SHEENS or Cleary.they all have had my support....some on here expect miraculous wins yesterday when this roster is just starting to gel and work with each other...if you have any idea of the game you should know that you will cop a few floggings along the way...I have been there done that and thats why I support Madge until his contract is up....

Madge has had 2 and half years to teach Mbye, he bought the players you mentioned, if he can't teach them, thats on him, more reason to sack him.
He really has no power if the board say we are terminating you, he has signed or re-signed 28 of 30 players, he has taken a side who finished 9th before he arrived, on a constant slide down the ladder to now sit 15th.
There is no signs of improvement, the players clearly aren't playing for him conceding over 30 points a week, no player of any stature will come and play for him, there is no reason at all to keep him on, sack him now before the hole gets any bigger

He has introduced several new players,Mbye is excess baggage from Cleary...You should know that these young guys need NRL experience...Brooks,golden haired boy who is a junior,Noffa golden haired junior,where are they performing to their contracts...Madge has stuck with Luke ,but it appears Luke isnt up to scratch.you and the Madge haters had better understand the game and what it takes to compete at this level week to week,and yet we here constantly how great Noffa is at running the ball back while conceding 3/4 tries through poor DEFENSE...
please I cant stand the crap anymore....

I have supported Wests/Wests Tigers for 50 years, I know when a team is being coached and are not up to it, and when a team is not being coached properly, Madge is the latter and isn't going to change

Not meaning to have a go at you, but in the last 50 years of support you've seen 1 premiership winning coach. So relying on experience of watching the last 50 years doesn't provide a great guide as to what works and what doesn't. And our only premiership winning coach had a bad year in 2004, with a particularly bad period in which we conceded 50 points two weeks in a row. Lots of fans wanted him sacked then and it was obvious that his coaching wasn't working. Then we won the next year. Not saying we're close to winning a comp, but form can change from year to year and I don't agree that as fans we're in a position to really accurately assert whether or not a coach is good or not. If they're making criminally bad mistakes, or saying really dumb, disruptive comments then maybe it is clear that the coach is to blame, but I don't think Madge has done either of those things.

Against all my arguments though, can anyone think of examples of coaches who struggled for three seasons before turning it around?

Brad Arthur Season 1 10th ...Season 2 12th... Season 3 14th ..Season 4 Finals out Week 2... Season 5 Spoon ..Season 6 Finals out Week 2 ..Season 7 Finals Out in straight sets..

How many seasons was it that the general census of opinion was that Brad Arthur was going to be first coach sacked?

 

[hank37w]

not 2 start argument,Kearny cant coach,great player tho

Sorry mate, but if Stephen Kearney had no idea about coaching, I don't think he'd be sitting in the box with Bellyache, unless of course, he's only there to make Bellyache look good.

 

[dazza65]

not 2 start argument,Kearny cant coach,great player tho

Sorry mate, but if Stephen Kearney had no idea about coaching, I don't think he'd be sitting in the box with Bellyache, unless of course, he's only there to make Bellyache look good.

Big difference between an assistant and head coach

 

[jirskyr]

Think this is worth a listen.

Just listening to that. Agree completely.

Problem is I’m not confident he’s getting the say he should around player signings. Probably due to the mess Ivan created.

Yep, can't stand Kent but he's got this right. The irony is yesterday they were playing to celebrate the career of one of the toughest players you'd ever see and they showed none of the guts he showed week in and week out. In my opinion they are 5 imported players away from winning games on a regular basis and I can't see where they are going to come from.

I’ve read this so many times …. How do players playing in a celebration game ever replicate the the characteristics of the player they are celebrating? How are any of these players ever going to do things Raudonikis was renowned for?

All they could do is yell out “cattle dog!”

No, I am with you. I don't get why anyone is suggesting one regular-season game or another is "more significant". Especially for Tigers, I would actually be quite annoyed if they played great in a "Tommy tribute match" and then went back to mediocrity the following week. Professional footballers, they are supposed to be up for it every week.

E.g. I was at the Wayne Pearce send-off at LO in 1990, and Balmain had everything to play for, and were still a good side, made the finals that year (5th out of 16 teams), lost Junior's final home match. Parra did not play finals, finished below us on the table.

It's media BS that somehow a Tommy tribute match should mean a better or more consistent effort from a team running 2nd-last. If Steve Mortimer was to die next week, would Bulldogs suddenly improve as a side the week after?

Secondly, the opposition doesn't care and I don't think, when you are actually playing football, that Tigers players are thinking so about the Raudonikis legacy. Most of those guys out there have little to no affiliation with the Magpies; a bunch of them weren't even born when Magpies merged and I wonder how many of them even met Tommy or whether he has any relevance to they they play football.

 

[jrtiger]

David Nofoalua post-match: https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2021/05/09/post-match-david-nofoaluma/

Sounds like we've hit rock bottom.

selfish player. thought it for a while, but now I believe it to be true. don't think i've ever heard him put his hand up and be accountable for his own performance. shoots daggers at his inside man every time he inevitably misses a tackle on the edge. I love ego in sport if you can back it up, but Nofo has never been able to back it up defensively.

 

[coivtny]

Think this is worth a listen.
https://youtu.be/fwL3Pl3JjLs

Just listening to that. Agree completely.

Problem is I’m not confident he’s getting the say he should around player signings. Probably due to the mess Ivan created.

Yep, can't stand Kent but he's got this right. The irony is yesterday they were playing to celebrate the career of one of the toughest players you'd ever see and they showed none of the guts he showed week in and week out. In my opinion they are 5 imported players away from winning games on a regular basis and I can't see where they are going to come from.

I’ve read this so many times …. How do players playing in a celebration game ever replicate the the characteristics of the player they are celebrating? How are any of these players ever going to do things Raudonikis was renowned for?

All they could do is yell out “cattle dog!”

Not too difficult a concept, really.

You got that right - it’s only a concept

Alright, I'll try to explain. The only point I was making was the irony of our weak performance on a day when we were remembering a strong player from our past. We have played strong games in recent years but couldn't summon a strong game on that day. It's not earth-shattering or particularly insightful but you seem to be intent on being picky.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

David Nofoalua post-match: https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2021/05/09/post-match-david-nofoaluma/

Sounds like we've hit rock bottom.

selfish player. thought it for a while, but now I believe it to be true. don't think i've ever heard him put his hand up and be accountable for his own performance. shoots daggers at his inside man every time he inevitably misses a tackle on the edge. I love ego in sport if you can back it up, but Nofo has never been able to back it up defensively.

To be fair he in both Tommys game has been the main one to come out in the 2nd half and lead the way. Issue is he isn’t doing from the kick off. He is coming infield all the time because he wants to have a dig. Not saying him trying to chase the ball is the right thing for us - it isn’t but it highlights right now how bad of a situation we are in. There is alot more players to blame other than Nofa atm.

 

[Curaeus]

Think this is worth a listen.
https://youtu.be/fwL3Pl3JjLs

For the first time in living memory I agree 100% with Kent.

 

[yeahcaz]

Think this is worth a listen.
https://youtu.be/fwL3Pl3JjLs

Haven't always been the biggest fan of Paul Kent but gee it's hard to disagree with anything that was said there.

It hurts but it's true.

To say it’s not madges fault is utter crap. While it may not be his whole fault, he’s definitely partly to blame. It’s a professional coaches job to a) motivate his players and b) pick his best team, and madge can’t do either at the moment. All this talk about oh the players are weak blah blah and they just fall apart, madge is picking these players just about every week. I wish I could share the optimism others have but this season is over already. Teams have come back from worse but this is not the team that will do it and I’ll bet my bottom dollar on that. I get he can’t make signings at the moment but surely, surely their are other players in the top 30 that can come out and actually have a bloody go. The players are constantly letting down the coach 100% and yet they’re still in the starting 13 just about every week.

 

[Guest]

Think this is worth a listen.
https://youtu.be/fwL3Pl3JjLs

Haven't always been the biggest fan of Paul Kent but gee it's hard to disagree with anything that was said there.

It hurts but it's true.

I don't think it hurts at all - it's common knowledge for anyone with a football brain who watches the WT play - this needs to be played to the players before every game.

 

[Rugba]

My two cents
Madge won’t get the teams in the semis , next year either and I think his limitations as a head coach has truly been exposed. And I don’t think he is capable of landing big fish that the young guys need to develop (bulldogs seemingly recruiting much better and apparently in box seat to get Brandon smith and they will be ahead of tigers next year )

In saying that I would keep him to complete the job on junior pathways and regenerating the squad . I would sack him next year to have a new coach to try entice some big names.

I also feel people don’t seem to understand how the NRL has screwed the non performing clubs with this ridiculous 30 man squad idea . Madge is limited on who he can actually bring in, as can only use players in top 30 and if they are not performing in reggies , he can’t do squat .
If we had the old 2nd tier salary cap and main salary cap . Clubs would have more depth and have ability to bring any young person having a stand out year to see if worth giving a nrl contract

 

[Red Rugby]

David Nofoalua post-match: https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2021/05/09/post-match-david-nofoaluma/

Sounds like we've hit rock bottom.

selfish player. thought it for a while, but now I believe it to be true. don't think i've ever heard him put his hand up and be accountable for his own performance. shoots daggers at his inside man every time he inevitably misses a tackle on the edge. I love ego in sport if you can back it up, but Nofo has never been able to back it up defensively.

Pot, Pot this is kettle, come in!

Picking David Nofoalua in a first grade football side is the dictionary definition of 'unskilled labour'