Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[GCfan]

He is right. You can’t change a structure within a short space well it was about 15 days considering the origin break, however that all depends on how much free time they were given that first week. But what if Maguire looked at this game with the bye upcoming followed by a couple of attack minded sides in the Broncos then Manly, and thought we have a month to change it and we’ll test it out against the Bunnies.
The players were exposed in the game. They new what needed to change and improved it in the second half, maybe it’s a taste of what they need to do to improve.

Remembering St George got hammered by Souths in the charity shield in the same fashion we flogged Manly.

Griffen was asked about that and said, we’ll it’s a trial, we’ve worked on some stuff in the off-season and those structures and systems were put under intense pressure. But all in all it showed us where the improvement was needed.
Maybe the Souths game being mentally out of reach was an opportunity for our side to reset and test out some changes.


Except they didnt. Out of Madges mouth, they didn t follow the plan in the first half.

Communication appears to be the issue.

I was astounded Maguire didn't pick up during his dressing room pre-game rant that few if any players were listening to him.

Have a go at this Madge -

be credible - know your stuff
be believable - support with evidence
be interesting - find a unique angle
avoid negativity
enhance positively

So you’re questioning Madges credibility and knowledge of the game now, that’ll do me. And who is to say he’s not doing all of what you suggest already and the players simply aren’t getting it or are too thick to grasp it or more likely, don’t have the resolve to follow it because it’s too hard.

My kids and their mates are products of the whole don’t say anything negative and kiss their ass brigade at school that you appear to be supportive of and I tell you what it’s all total BS and breeds entitlement and people that think they can do what they like when they like and to whom they like without consequence.
Maguire tried the nice nice approach and it hasn’t worked so time to bring on full mongrel modem and make them wish nice Madge would come back

Communication skills. DId you watch the pre-game dressing room scenes?

Yes i did. But us fans also only watch things without sound and without any context of what’s come before that snippet of footage to make an accurate judgement. Maybe Madge isn’t a good communicator but none of us truly know. How many weeks have you seen Madge blow up compared to appearing calm. How many times have you heard Madge publicly support the team and openly state he believes in this team as opposed to blow up and question their manhood? As I said, the niceties don’t work and people can say it’s because he can’t communicate but maybe it’s because many of the players won’t do what needs to be done and Madge has had a gutfull.

Maguire has had nearly three years to improve our on-field performances. Note I have always made this distinction from winning games. We've gone backwards and our defence is pitiful. While blame can be apportioned to players, Maguire needs to take the greatest share.

True but we were debating communication style and I’m saying that drawing a conclusion on his communication style being one way or the other based on a press conference or a minute or so of footage pre game is flawed. For the record, I’m not sold on Madge either but I’m reluctant to turf him as every other time that buttons been pressed we’ve gone further backwards. We seem to be in a perpetual state of rebuild and it holds us back.

 

[2005magic]

I have heard on numerous occassions in pre match comments by Maguire that the team has trained well and practiced what they have to do and then they come out on to the field and play like headless chooks with no pattern / system to defence and little to no planning.

So, doesnt the truth then have to be that on the field of battle they are falling apart under pressure? Could it be that the leadership group isnt leading by example, the captain is not inspiring them (or not on the field), and the halfback is not organising, or most worryingly, the team is dogging it. While it is true there are many young-uns in the 17, there are also enough experienced old-uns to be able to take the pressure and help the others. Yet, they are not.

If they are doing totally opposite to what has been practised on training the culprit players are in the wrong and should be sacked. Surely contracts have in them undertaking coaches instructions. If the players think they n=know better tit cant go on.

Im all for replacing Maguire if we can find someone better, but the players behind all this should not, cannot, escape the axe. If they do get a new coach, they would have to accept the direction the club is going in and not go through another massive rebuild.

 

[happy_tiger]

I have heard on numerous occassions in pre match comments by Maguire that the team has trained well and practiced what they have to do and then they come out on to the field and play like headless chooks with no pattern / system to defence and little to no planning.

So, doesnt the truth then have to be that on the field of battle they are falling apart under pressure? Could it be that the leadership group isnt leading by example, the captain is not inspiring them (or not on the field), and the halfback is not organising, or most worryingly, the team is dogging it. While it is true there are many young-uns in the 17, there are also enough experienced old-uns to be able to take the pressure and help the others. Yet, they are not.

If they are doing totally opposite to what has been practised on training the culprit players are in the wrong and should be sacked. Surely contracts have in them undertaking coaches instructions. If the players think they n=know better tit cant go on.

Im all for replacing Maguire if we can find someone better, but the players behind all this should not, cannot, escape the axe. If they do get a new coach, they would have to accept the direction the club is going in and not go through another massive rebuild.

But the older players can't cope either and within 15 minutes it just doesn't matter what happens ...we have to learn how to stop momentum ..and that isn't easy ....my answer probably won't be popular ......bit football orientated ...but blokes and trainers need to be ready to have a bloke that has any head contact to go down and stay down ......trainer stops play ......and then you hope the breather and time to get your head around what is happening and some messages via Madge stop the rot .....it's the only way for weaker teams to compete ......

 

[jirskyr]

He is right. You can’t change a structure within a short space well it was about 15 days considering the origin break, however that all depends on how much free time they were given that first week. But what if Maguire looked at this game with the bye upcoming followed by a couple of attack minded sides in the Broncos then Manly, and thought we have a month to change it and we’ll test it out against the Bunnies.
The players were exposed in the game. They new what needed to change and improved it in the second half, maybe it’s a taste of what they need to do to improve.

Remembering St George got hammered by Souths in the charity shield in the same fashion we flogged Manly.

Griffen was asked about that and said, we’ll it’s a trial, we’ve worked on some stuff in the off-season and those structures and systems were put under intense pressure. But all in all it showed us where the improvement was needed.
Maybe the Souths game being mentally out of reach was an opportunity for our side to reset and test out some changes.


Except they didnt. Out of Madges mouth, they didn t follow the plan in the first half.

Communication appears to be the issue.

I was astounded Maguire didn't pick up during his dressing room pre-game rant that few if any players were listening to him.

Have a go at this Madge -

be credible - know your stuff
be believable - support with evidence
be interesting - find a unique angle
avoid negativity
enhance positively

So you’re questioning Madges credibility and knowledge of the game now, that’ll do me. And who is to say he’s not doing all of what you suggest already and the players simply aren’t getting it or are too thick to grasp it or more likely, don’t have the resolve to follow it because it’s too hard.

My kids and their mates are products of the whole don’t say anything negative and kiss their ass brigade at school that you appear to be supportive of and I tell you what it’s all total BS and breeds entitlement and people that think they can do what they like when they like and to whom they like without consequence.
Maguire tried the nice nice approach and it hasn’t worked so time to bring on full mongrel modem and make them wish nice Madge would come back

Communication skills. DId you watch the pre-game dressing room scenes?

Uh oh body language analysis again

 

[jirskyr]

Interesting to note Todd Payten calling out his senior playing roster after another loss.

Saying that besides one or two players the senior guys are not doing enough to play tough and help the younger players through the game.

Last week Maguire had the 'men' comment after months of public praise for his under performing senior roster. Seems Toddy is not as patient.

Both clubs have a very similar issue. Will be interesting to see how the respective coaches handle the situation and who achieves success.

Where's @pawsandclaws1, we need someone on the case of employee management, another coach making public comments about his under-performing players, not on, that can apparently only be done in private.

 

[cochise]

I have heard on numerous occassions in pre match comments by Maguire that the team has trained well and practiced what they have to do and then they come out on to the field and play like headless chooks with no pattern / system to defence and little to no planning.

So, doesnt the truth then have to be that on the field of battle they are falling apart under pressure? Could it be that the leadership group isnt leading by example, the captain is not inspiring them (or not on the field), and the halfback is not organising, or most worryingly, the team is dogging it. While it is true there are many young-uns in the 17, there are also enough experienced old-uns to be able to take the pressure and help the others. Yet, they are not.

If they are doing totally opposite to what has been practised on training the culprit players are in the wrong and should be sacked. Surely contracts have in them undertaking coaches instructions. If the players think they n=know better tit cant go on.

Im all for replacing Maguire if we can find someone better, but the players behind all this should not, cannot, escape the axe. If they do get a new coach, they would have to accept the direction the club is going in and not go through another massive rebuild.

Questions are being asked of the coach about why he is reporting to the club that training is going well but that is not transferring to gameday.

 

[cochise]

I have heard on numerous occassions in pre match comments by Maguire that the team has trained well and practiced what they have to do and then they come out on to the field and play like headless chooks with no pattern / system to defence and little to no planning.

So, doesnt the truth then have to be that on the field of battle they are falling apart under pressure? Could it be that the leadership group isnt leading by example, the captain is not inspiring them (or not on the field), and the halfback is not organising, or most worryingly, the team is dogging it. While it is true there are many young-uns in the 17, there are also enough experienced old-uns to be able to take the pressure and help the others. Yet, they are not.

If they are doing totally opposite to what has been practised on training the culprit players are in the wrong and should be sacked. Surely contracts have in them undertaking coaches instructions. If the players think they n=know better tit cant go on.

Im all for replacing Maguire if we can find someone better, but the players behind all this should not, cannot, escape the axe. If they do get a new coach, they would have to accept the direction the club is going in and not go through another massive rebuild.

But the older players can't cope either and within 15 minutes it just doesn't matter what happens ...we have to learn how to stop momentum ..and that isn't easy ....my answer probably won't be popular ......bit football orientated ...but blokes and trainers need to be ready to have a bloke that has any head contact to go down and stay down ......trainer stops play ......and then you hope the breather and time to get your head around what is happening and some messages via Madge stop the rot .....it's the only way for weaker teams to compete ......

With the way the game is reffed now, it is almost impossible to swing momentum back. Momentum will stay with one team until a side makes a series of back to back errors or halftime/ fulltime arrives. That is the reason for the blowouts across the comp.

 

[momo_amp_medo]

And Phil Gould again adds his twopence worth:

https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/wests-tigers-issues-michael-maguire-phil-gould-breaks-it-down/3466089e-fb32-4169-9f3c-d08354a31bd3?ocid=edm-wwos.nine.com.au-ninedaily--210709&mktg_scr=edm-wwosdaily&fbclid=IwAR29OlW5-J0cg4rRsZwUE2IAFCVFLgEb7okfJzJ8cwC543YkjCMccF22UEg

EXCLUSIVE: Phil Gould breaks down Wests Tigers' woes, the 'band-aid' solutions hurting club internally

Rugby league guru Phil Gould says the Wests Tigers' struggles are in part due to the club's default response to "band-aid over things" internally, rather than "to sit back from the outside" and discover what the real problems are.

The Tigers, who last reached the finals in 2011, look destined to again miss out on postseason football currently sitting 12th on the NRL ladder, with five wins and 10 losses to their name.

The Concord-based club's struggles have been highlighted by a number of internal issues, namely player unrest and speculation surrounding the coaching future of Michael Maguire.

Coming off three consecutive defeats, in which the Tigers have conceded a total of 144 points, pressure is continuing to mount on the club.

Gould says the Tigers, like several other clubs in the competition, are failing to appropriately address the internal issues that are leading to the negative results on the field.

"Having been involved behind the scenes in football clubs, sometimes the people inside the organisation can't see the forest for the trees," he told James Bracey on Wide World of Sports' Six Tackles with Gus podcast.

"They can't see it spiralling out of control, where people from the outside are looking at it like, 'Wow, look at what's happening here'.

"Internally, you're trying to band-aid over things and put out little fires and keep things moving along... then you have another bad day or a bad half and that allows all the other conjecture - you drop a key player, you drop a senior player, you change a captain.

"You do all these things internally that you think are the right things to do and you really need to sit back from the outside and look at it and get to the real root of the problem as you're trying to get out of it.

"I feel for them (Tigers). I feel for a lot of the clubs at the moment who struggle - it must be a torment for them out on the field, being beaten by 50 and 60 points and knowing you're not competitive."

Making particular note of two of the club's recent performances - last week's loss to South Sydney and the Round Five defeat at the hands of North Queensland - Gould said it's a concerning sign the club was thrashed in both first halves before turning things around in the second period.

The former NSW Origin coach claims the club's inability to stay on top during both the first and second half are signs of having "no resilience".

"The Tigers, they look like a club really under stress, they play like they're under stress. They never look comfortable," Gould added.

"I remember a game this year, they were raging hot favourites the day they were going to pay tribute to Tommy Raudonikis at Leichhardt Oval, and they were playing the Cowboys who hadn't beaten anyone.

"They were down by 26 or 28 points at half-time. I had a similar feeling about it watching them [against South Sydney] on the weekend - where they go out with all good intention, then it just prickles like a balloon or one little mistake or one little try, then all of a sudden it's an avalanche.

"They can't deal with it until they can get back with the coach at half-time. In both of those games, they've come out and had strong second halves.

"Which means, whatever he said to them at half-time must have had an effect. They must have been able to regroup, take a breath, calm down and then come back and start to apply themselves better.

"But why can't they do that with themselves on the field? It seems a lot of these teams mentally, it's all too hard for them. Once they get on the wrong end of a team with talent who can score the points, there's no resilience until next week or the second half, or whenever they can regroup and come again.

"That's not the signs of a professional footballer or a professional team. Attitude control and mental control is a key part of being a professional athlete."

One of the big talking points from the Tigers' loss to the Rabbitohs last weekend was the club's sudden change of its defensive structure.

The Tigers during that match trailed by 26 points at the main break after showcasing a defensive structure in which Parramatta great Peter Sterling said: "I haven't seen this kind of defence before... I've never seen a team stand still and then reverse before the play gets to them. It's an invitation."

Gould echoed similar thoughts and said Maguire's decision to change the defensive systems was the wrong thing to do given the position the Tigers are currently in.

"Sometimes they have some good results, but too often we see performances like that on the weekend. But what made it worse on the weekend was the revelation prior to the game, that the coach had changed the defensive structure for the team," Gould said.

"That's too hard to do in seven days. It's almost impossible to do against one of the top sides.

"What he was probably saying to them, mentally before the game, is that our defence can't cope with Souths, so we need to change something up very quickly.

"You probably get one or two sessions to educate them on it and it just fell apart. They didn't know what they were doing. They really didn't know what they were doing.

"Over time, he might be right, that might be the best defensive system for those players, but it's going to take a lot longer than a couple of sessions to turn it around and change it.

"You probably wouldn't change it against the better sides like that, you've got to work with what you're training week in and week out. What they did on the weekend wasn't right for the South Sydney game."

Well ….. that’s all a revelation ….. NOT!
Give us a solution Gus not bang on about things we all know already.
Boy … you can pick from miles away that the players, coach and staff are struggling to get on top of things.
Hate this type of rocket scientists without a bloody solution observations.

 

[happy_tiger]

I have heard on numerous occassions in pre match comments by Maguire that the team has trained well and practiced what they have to do and then they come out on to the field and play like headless chooks with no pattern / system to defence and little to no planning.

So, doesnt the truth then have to be that on the field of battle they are falling apart under pressure? Could it be that the leadership group isnt leading by example, the captain is not inspiring them (or not on the field), and the halfback is not organising, or most worryingly, the team is dogging it. While it is true there are many young-uns in the 17, there are also enough experienced old-uns to be able to take the pressure and help the others. Yet, they are not.

If they are doing totally opposite to what has been practised on training the culprit players are in the wrong and should be sacked. Surely contracts have in them undertaking coaches instructions. If the players think they n=know better tit cant go on.

Im all for replacing Maguire if we can find someone better, but the players behind all this should not, cannot, escape the axe. If they do get a new coach, they would have to accept the direction the club is going in and not go through another massive rebuild.

But the older players can't cope either and within 15 minutes it just doesn't matter what happens ...we have to learn how to stop momentum ..and that isn't easy ....my answer probably won't be popular ......bit football orientated ...but blokes and trainers need to be ready to have a bloke that has any head contact to go down and stay down ......trainer stops play ......and then you hope the breather and time to get your head around what is happening and some messages via Madge stop the rot .....it's the only way for weaker teams to compete ......

With the way the game is reffed now, it is almost impossible to swing momentum back. Momentum will stay with one team until a side makes a series of back to back errors or halftime/ fulltime arrives. That is the reason for the blowouts across the comp.

My point is when Madge can get some words into them at HT they sometimes respond ...if you can halt the opposition momentum by "faking an injury" it's worth a try ...can't be any worse than what currently happens

I know we don't have that style of player ...but if you had a wrecking ball defender ...next tackle you get him to fly out of the line and belt the player taking the next hit up ..hold him up .numbers in the tackle .....getting his ass facing skyward and the opposite direction ( you wouldn't expect a side to spin it wide , the defence is set ) and you steal the momentum

 

[momo_amp_medo]

He is right. You can’t change a structure within a short space well it was about 15 days considering the origin break, however that all depends on how much free time they were given that first week. But what if Maguire looked at this game with the bye upcoming followed by a couple of attack minded sides in the Broncos then Manly, and thought we have a month to change it and we’ll test it out against the Bunnies.
The players were exposed in the game. They new what needed to change and improved it in the second half, maybe it’s a taste of what they need to do to improve.

Remembering St George got hammered by Souths in the charity shield in the same fashion we flogged Manly.

Griffen was asked about that and said, we’ll it’s a trial, we’ve worked on some stuff in the off-season and those structures and systems were put under intense pressure. But all in all it showed us where the improvement was needed.
Maybe the Souths game being mentally out of reach was an opportunity for our side to reset and test out some changes.

Wt players shit themselves when Souths come to the line before passing

They are not the only ones in the toilet block.

 

[jirskyr]

I have heard on numerous occassions in pre match comments by Maguire that the team has trained well and practiced what they have to do and then they come out on to the field and play like headless chooks with no pattern / system to defence and little to no planning.

So, doesnt the truth then have to be that on the field of battle they are falling apart under pressure? Could it be that the leadership group isnt leading by example, the captain is not inspiring them (or not on the field), and the halfback is not organising, or most worryingly, the team is dogging it. While it is true there are many young-uns in the 17, there are also enough experienced old-uns to be able to take the pressure and help the others. Yet, they are not.

If they are doing totally opposite to what has been practised on training the culprit players are in the wrong and should be sacked. Surely contracts have in them undertaking coaches instructions. If the players think they n=know better tit cant go on.

Im all for replacing Maguire if we can find someone better, but the players behind all this should not, cannot, escape the axe. If they do get a new coach, they would have to accept the direction the club is going in and not go through another massive rebuild.

Questions are being asked of the coach about why he is reporting to the club that training is going well but that is not transferring to gameday.

They seem like pointless questions to me. Either he already knows the issues and can't fix them / takes a long time to fix, or he has no idea. It happens 2/3 matches.

I personally think the answer is obvious - the best players are juniors, and the most disappointing players are seniors. So Madge has his footballing ability locked up in players who don't yet have the experience to fight tougher and smarter under adversity. And the players we turn to under adversity, the experienced once, aren't playing good football even in absence of pressure.

I personally think Tamou is doing OK (he has almost no experienced support in the forwards), but guys like Mbye, Nofo, Jimmy Jet, Musgrove, Chee Kam, BJ, Packer have net negative output.

I think the fix is less obvious - get in more experienced heads, or be patient and try to get the kids confident to be performing to a more consistent level in difficult matches.

 

[BAGNF05]

I have heard on numerous occassions in pre match comments by Maguire that the team has trained well and practiced what they have to do and then they come out on to the field and play like headless chooks with no pattern / system to defence and little to no planning.

So, doesnt the truth then have to be that on the field of battle they are falling apart under pressure? Could it be that the leadership group isnt leading by example, the captain is not inspiring them (or not on the field), and the halfback is not organising, or most worryingly, the team is dogging it. While it is true there are many young-uns in the 17, there are also enough experienced old-uns to be able to take the pressure and help the others. Yet, they are not.

If they are doing totally opposite to what has been practised on training the culprit players are in the wrong and should be sacked. Surely contracts have in them undertaking coaches instructions. If the players think they n=know better tit cant go on.

Im all for replacing Maguire if we can find someone better, but the players behind all this should not, cannot, escape the axe. If they do get a new coach, they would have to accept the direction the club is going in and not go through another massive rebuild.

Questions are being asked of the coach about why he is reporting to the club that training is going well but that is not transferring to gameday.

That’s an interesting one. It feels like we have a pretty disconnected group which I’d imagine would also be fairly obvious through the week. Do people from the senior admin not go to training and watch? What are they doing? Certainly not winning in their meetings with player managers.

 

[tiger_one]

And Phil Gould again adds his twopence worth:

https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/wests-tigers-issues-michael-maguire-phil-gould-breaks-it-down/3466089e-fb32-4169-9f3c-d08354a31bd3?ocid=edm-wwos.nine.com.au-ninedaily--210709&mktg_scr=edm-wwosdaily&fbclid=IwAR29OlW5-J0cg4rRsZwUE2IAFCVFLgEb7okfJzJ8cwC543YkjCMccF22UEg

EXCLUSIVE: Phil Gould breaks down Wests Tigers' woes, the 'band-aid' solutions hurting club internally

Rugby league guru Phil Gould says the Wests Tigers' struggles are in part due to the club's default response to "band-aid over things" internally, rather than "to sit back from the outside" and discover what the real problems are.

The Tigers, who last reached the finals in 2011, look destined to again miss out on postseason football currently sitting 12th on the NRL ladder, with five wins and 10 losses to their name.

The Concord-based club's struggles have been highlighted by a number of internal issues, namely player unrest and speculation surrounding the coaching future of Michael Maguire.

Coming off three consecutive defeats, in which the Tigers have conceded a total of 144 points, pressure is continuing to mount on the club.

Gould says the Tigers, like several other clubs in the competition, are failing to appropriately address the internal issues that are leading to the negative results on the field.

"Having been involved behind the scenes in football clubs, sometimes the people inside the organisation can't see the forest for the trees," he told James Bracey on Wide World of Sports' Six Tackles with Gus podcast.

"They can't see it spiralling out of control, where people from the outside are looking at it like, 'Wow, look at what's happening here'.

"Internally, you're trying to band-aid over things and put out little fires and keep things moving along... then you have another bad day or a bad half and that allows all the other conjecture - you drop a key player, you drop a senior player, you change a captain.

"You do all these things internally that you think are the right things to do and you really need to sit back from the outside and look at it and get to the real root of the problem as you're trying to get out of it.

"I feel for them (Tigers). I feel for a lot of the clubs at the moment who struggle - it must be a torment for them out on the field, being beaten by 50 and 60 points and knowing you're not competitive."

Making particular note of two of the club's recent performances - last week's loss to South Sydney and the Round Five defeat at the hands of North Queensland - Gould said it's a concerning sign the club was thrashed in both first halves before turning things around in the second period.

The former NSW Origin coach claims the club's inability to stay on top during both the first and second half are signs of having "no resilience".

"The Tigers, they look like a club really under stress, they play like they're under stress. They never look comfortable," Gould added.

"I remember a game this year, they were raging hot favourites the day they were going to pay tribute to Tommy Raudonikis at Leichhardt Oval, and they were playing the Cowboys who hadn't beaten anyone.

"They were down by 26 or 28 points at half-time. I had a similar feeling about it watching them [against South Sydney] on the weekend - where they go out with all good intention, then it just prickles like a balloon or one little mistake or one little try, then all of a sudden it's an avalanche.

"They can't deal with it until they can get back with the coach at half-time. In both of those games, they've come out and had strong second halves.

"Which means, whatever he said to them at half-time must have had an effect. They must have been able to regroup, take a breath, calm down and then come back and start to apply themselves better.

"But why can't they do that with themselves on the field? It seems a lot of these teams mentally, it's all too hard for them. Once they get on the wrong end of a team with talent who can score the points, there's no resilience until next week or the second half, or whenever they can regroup and come again.

"That's not the signs of a professional footballer or a professional team. Attitude control and mental control is a key part of being a professional athlete."

One of the big talking points from the Tigers' loss to the Rabbitohs last weekend was the club's sudden change of its defensive structure.

The Tigers during that match trailed by 26 points at the main break after showcasing a defensive structure in which Parramatta great Peter Sterling said: "I haven't seen this kind of defence before... I've never seen a team stand still and then reverse before the play gets to them. It's an invitation."

Gould echoed similar thoughts and said Maguire's decision to change the defensive systems was the wrong thing to do given the position the Tigers are currently in.

"Sometimes they have some good results, but too often we see performances like that on the weekend. But what made it worse on the weekend was the revelation prior to the game, that the coach had changed the defensive structure for the team," Gould said.

"That's too hard to do in seven days. It's almost impossible to do against one of the top sides.

"What he was probably saying to them, mentally before the game, is that our defence can't cope with Souths, so we need to change something up very quickly.

"You probably get one or two sessions to educate them on it and it just fell apart. They didn't know what they were doing. They really didn't know what they were doing.

"Over time, he might be right, that might be the best defensive system for those players, but it's going to take a lot longer than a couple of sessions to turn it around and change it.

"You probably wouldn't change it against the better sides like that, you've got to work with what you're training week in and week out. What they did on the weekend wasn't right for the South Sydney game."

Well ….. that’s all a revelation ….. NOT!
Give us a solution Gus not bang on about things we all know already.
Boy … you can pick from miles away that the players, coach and staff are struggling to get on top of things.
Hate this type of rocket scientists without a bloody solution observations.

Ain't that the truth. All the so-called experts, Gould, Fittler, Sterlo et al each love saying the bloomi' obvious without ever giving a solution to promote the club.

 

[cochise]

I have heard on numerous occassions in pre match comments by Maguire that the team has trained well and practiced what they have to do and then they come out on to the field and play like headless chooks with no pattern / system to defence and little to no planning.

So, doesnt the truth then have to be that on the field of battle they are falling apart under pressure? Could it be that the leadership group isnt leading by example, the captain is not inspiring them (or not on the field), and the halfback is not organising, or most worryingly, the team is dogging it. While it is true there are many young-uns in the 17, there are also enough experienced old-uns to be able to take the pressure and help the others. Yet, they are not.

If they are doing totally opposite to what has been practised on training the culprit players are in the wrong and should be sacked. Surely contracts have in them undertaking coaches instructions. If the players think they n=know better tit cant go on.

Im all for replacing Maguire if we can find someone better, but the players behind all this should not, cannot, escape the axe. If they do get a new coach, they would have to accept the direction the club is going in and not go through another massive rebuild.

Questions are being asked of the coach about why he is reporting to the club that training is going well but that is not transferring to gameday.

That’s an interesting one. It feels like we have a pretty disconnected group which I’d imagine would also be fairly obvious through the week. Do people from the senior admin not go to training and watch? What are they doing? Certainly not winning in their meetings with player managers.

Going and watching training and understanding what is happening, whether the goals of the session are being achieved, if players are hitting data etc are different things. I don't expect Pascoe to be able to go to training and determine of the training session was successful. I would also be disappointed if he is spending all day at training.

 

[cochise]

I have heard on numerous occassions in pre match comments by Maguire that the team has trained well and practiced what they have to do and then they come out on to the field and play like headless chooks with no pattern / system to defence and little to no planning.

So, doesnt the truth then have to be that on the field of battle they are falling apart under pressure? Could it be that the leadership group isnt leading by example, the captain is not inspiring them (or not on the field), and the halfback is not organising, or most worryingly, the team is dogging it. While it is true there are many young-uns in the 17, there are also enough experienced old-uns to be able to take the pressure and help the others. Yet, they are not.

If they are doing totally opposite to what has been practised on training the culprit players are in the wrong and should be sacked. Surely contracts have in them undertaking coaches instructions. If the players think they n=know better tit cant go on.

Im all for replacing Maguire if we can find someone better, but the players behind all this should not, cannot, escape the axe. If they do get a new coach, they would have to accept the direction the club is going in and not go through another massive rebuild.

Questions are being asked of the coach about why he is reporting to the club that training is going well but that is not transferring to gameday.

That’s an interesting one. It feels like we have a pretty disconnected group which I’d imagine would also be fairly obvious through the week. Do people from the senior admin not go to training and watch? What are they doing? Certainly not winning in their meetings with player managers.

The disconnect is apparently not that obvious through the week, maybe it has become more so in the last few weeks though.

 

[happy_tiger]

Interesting to note Todd Payten calling out his senior playing roster after another loss.

Saying that besides one or two players the senior guys are not doing enough to play tough and help the younger players through the game.

Last week Maguire had the 'men' comment after months of public praise for his under performing senior roster. Seems Toddy is not as patient.

Both clubs have a very similar issue. Will be interesting to see how the respective coaches handle the situation and who achieves success.

Where's @pawsandclaws1, we need someone on the case of employee management, another coach making public comments about his under-performing players, not on, that can apparently only be done in private.

I don't think this is Madge's issue ...the issue (as after the Souths game ) is by the end of the rant he is swaddling them and making sure they have their pacifier before they got to bed ...let them sleep on it for a few days at least ...let it burn ...have the assistant run the video session and absolutely blast them ......

Listened to Flecther talk about Gould and his dealing with him after a bad SOO performance .....he actually got the player he was originally sitting next to him to move and then sat in his seat ...but didn't say a single word to him the whole flight ...and then didn't speak to him directly for 2 weeks .......

Before someone says meh ...it was the most memorable dealing Fletch mentioned about his dealing with Gould .....

Actions like this work ......silence can be golden .....sometimes the only person that can get you to play better footy is ....you ...we listen to music to get ourselves in the right mindset to play well ...but the actions are invariably are up to the individual ....

 

[BAGNF05]

I have heard on numerous occassions in pre match comments by Maguire that the team has trained well and practiced what they have to do and then they come out on to the field and play like headless chooks with no pattern / system to defence and little to no planning.

So, doesnt the truth then have to be that on the field of battle they are falling apart under pressure? Could it be that the leadership group isnt leading by example, the captain is not inspiring them (or not on the field), and the halfback is not organising, or most worryingly, the team is dogging it. While it is true there are many young-uns in the 17, there are also enough experienced old-uns to be able to take the pressure and help the others. Yet, they are not.

If they are doing totally opposite to what has been practised on training the culprit players are in the wrong and should be sacked. Surely contracts have in them undertaking coaches instructions. If the players think they n=know better tit cant go on.

Im all for replacing Maguire if we can find someone better, but the players behind all this should not, cannot, escape the axe. If they do get a new coach, they would have to accept the direction the club is going in and not go through another massive rebuild.

Questions are being asked of the coach about why he is reporting to the club that training is going well but that is not transferring to gameday.

That’s an interesting one. It feels like we have a pretty disconnected group which I’d imagine would also be fairly obvious through the week. Do people from the senior admin not go to training and watch? What are they doing? Certainly not winning in their meetings with player managers.

Going and watching training and understanding what is happening, whether the goals of the session are being achieved, if players are hitting data etc are different things. I don't expect Pascoe to be able to go to training and determine of the training session was successful. I would also be disappointed if he is spending all day at training.

With the right experience it’s easy to tell the difference between a really connected team and one that’s got issues. I think everything would just be humming if you watched Melbourne train. I imagine some of our fellas would stroll in and probably not even acknowledge each other. That’s how they’re playing anyway.

 

[cochise]

I have heard on numerous occassions in pre match comments by Maguire that the team has trained well and practiced what they have to do and then they come out on to the field and play like headless chooks with no pattern / system to defence and little to no planning.

So, doesnt the truth then have to be that on the field of battle they are falling apart under pressure? Could it be that the leadership group isnt leading by example, the captain is not inspiring them (or not on the field), and the halfback is not organising, or most worryingly, the team is dogging it. While it is true there are many young-uns in the 17, there are also enough experienced old-uns to be able to take the pressure and help the others. Yet, they are not.

If they are doing totally opposite to what has been practised on training the culprit players are in the wrong and should be sacked. Surely contracts have in them undertaking coaches instructions. If the players think they n=know better tit cant go on.

Im all for replacing Maguire if we can find someone better, but the players behind all this should not, cannot, escape the axe. If they do get a new coach, they would have to accept the direction the club is going in and not go through another massive rebuild.

Questions are being asked of the coach about why he is reporting to the club that training is going well but that is not transferring to gameday.

That’s an interesting one. It feels like we have a pretty disconnected group which I’d imagine would also be fairly obvious through the week. Do people from the senior admin not go to training and watch? What are they doing? Certainly not winning in their meetings with player managers.

Going and watching training and understanding what is happening, whether the goals of the session are being achieved, if players are hitting data etc are different things. I don't expect Pascoe to be able to go to training and determine of the training session was successful. I would also be disappointed if he is spending all day at training.

With the right experience it’s easy to tell the difference between a really connected team and one that’s got issues. I think everything would just be humming if you watched Melbourne train. I imagine some of our fellas would stroll in and probably not even acknowledge each other. That’s how they’re playing anyway.

Yes but that is not the senior management role to see that, it is Madges role. That is why he is being asked those questions.

 

[BAGNF05]

I have heard on numerous occassions in pre match comments by Maguire that the team has trained well and practiced what they have to do and then they come out on to the field and play like headless chooks with no pattern / system to defence and little to no planning.

So, doesnt the truth then have to be that on the field of battle they are falling apart under pressure? Could it be that the leadership group isnt leading by example, the captain is not inspiring them (or not on the field), and the halfback is not organising, or most worryingly, the team is dogging it. While it is true there are many young-uns in the 17, there are also enough experienced old-uns to be able to take the pressure and help the others. Yet, they are not.

If they are doing totally opposite to what has been practised on training the culprit players are in the wrong and should be sacked. Surely contracts have in them undertaking coaches instructions. If the players think they n=know better tit cant go on.

Im all for replacing Maguire if we can find someone better, but the players behind all this should not, cannot, escape the axe. If they do get a new coach, they would have to accept the direction the club is going in and not go through another massive rebuild.

Questions are being asked of the coach about why he is reporting to the club that training is going well but that is not transferring to gameday.

That’s an interesting one. It feels like we have a pretty disconnected group which I’d imagine would also be fairly obvious through the week. Do people from the senior admin not go to training and watch? What are they doing? Certainly not winning in their meetings with player managers.

Going and watching training and understanding what is happening, whether the goals of the session are being achieved, if players are hitting data etc are different things. I don't expect Pascoe to be able to go to training and determine of the training session was successful. I would also be disappointed if he is spending all day at training.

With the right experience it’s easy to tell the difference between a really connected team and one that’s got issues. I think everything would just be humming if you watched Melbourne train. I imagine some of our fellas would stroll in and probably not even acknowledge each other. That’s how they’re playing anyway.

Yes but that is not the senior management role to see that, it is Madges role. That is why he is being asked those questions.

This is where we disagree mate, from top down I’d want football nous. They’re on big money and what exactly are they doing to win us games?

Edit: This is why I like the Sheens appointment.

 

[cochise]

I have heard on numerous occassions in pre match comments by Maguire that the team has trained well and practiced what they have to do and then they come out on to the field and play like headless chooks with no pattern / system to defence and little to no planning.

So, doesnt the truth then have to be that on the field of battle they are falling apart under pressure? Could it be that the leadership group isnt leading by example, the captain is not inspiring them (or not on the field), and the halfback is not organising, or most worryingly, the team is dogging it. While it is true there are many young-uns in the 17, there are also enough experienced old-uns to be able to take the pressure and help the others. Yet, they are not.

If they are doing totally opposite to what has been practised on training the culprit players are in the wrong and should be sacked. Surely contracts have in them undertaking coaches instructions. If the players think they n=know better tit cant go on.

Im all for replacing Maguire if we can find someone better, but the players behind all this should not, cannot, escape the axe. If they do get a new coach, they would have to accept the direction the club is going in and not go through another massive rebuild.

Questions are being asked of the coach about why he is reporting to the club that training is going well but that is not transferring to gameday.

That’s an interesting one. It feels like we have a pretty disconnected group which I’d imagine would also be fairly obvious through the week. Do people from the senior admin not go to training and watch? What are they doing? Certainly not winning in their meetings with player managers.

Going and watching training and understanding what is happening, whether the goals of the session are being achieved, if players are hitting data etc are different things. I don't expect Pascoe to be able to go to training and determine of the training session was successful. I would also be disappointed if he is spending all day at training.

With the right experience it’s easy to tell the difference between a really connected team and one that’s got issues. I think everything would just be humming if you watched Melbourne train. I imagine some of our fellas would stroll in and probably not even acknowledge each other. That’s how they’re playing anyway.

Yes but that is not the senior management role to see that, it is Madges role. That is why he is being asked those questions.

This is where we disagree mate, from top down I’d want football nous. They’re on big money and what exactly are they doing to win us games?

At this point in time our senior management isn't even allowed at training.