Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[batboy]

The Chammas article where our Chairman refers to the results not reflecting the financial investment in the football dept etc is the end for Maguire. He refers to the review time period being a week. Hopefully a new coach will be announced asap.

I would not be surprised if Sheens already has a new coach.

How would it?
Said 'Chairman' signed off on making his buddy Nofoaluma - One of the highest paid Wingers in the game...

 

[jadtiger]

The Chammas article where our Chairman refers to the results not reflecting the financial investment in the football dept etc is the end for Maguire. He refers to the review time period being a week. Hopefully a new coach will be announced asap.

I would not be surprised if Sheens already has a new coach.

He's not even in the Country, And hasn't been coaching O/S for more than 12 months - And was doing nothing before that....
He knows football, But would be that far out of the Loop in Sydney it's not funny...

There is Zoom, Teams etc. Many job interviews are conducted this way today.

Right now, I'm thankful we have someone of Sheens' experience to provide guidance.

Of course there is - But generally the people conducting them have been in or around the organisation in the decade prior to conducting them...
If you think he's picking coaches from the other side of the world without having his feet under the desk and getting a feel for where the joint is at - You're off your face!!

Our CEO obviously considers Sheens has been "in and around the organisation" enough to conduct a review. I'd say Sheens would be more across issues than Maguire. Perhaps having a relatively independent view on matters is exactly what we need so Maguire can be jettisoned and a new coach with some idea appointed.

Where has it been said Sheens is responsible for the review?
He's not in the country until just prior to pre-season....


To the best of my knowledge nobody credible has stated that Sheens is doing the review.A few randoms who dislike Madge are pushing the angle that Sheens is doing it and the rumour seems to be feeding off itself.

I haven't heard Sheens is doing the review it is Pascoe and Hartigan apparently

That is what i have heard also,personally i would rather it was done by someone external from the club(not B.Smith)

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

Holbrook got the Titans in to the finals Madge couldn't get us in
always next year

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

The Chammas article where our Chairman refers to the results not reflecting the financial investment in the football dept etc is the end for Maguire. He refers to the review time period being a week. Hopefully a new coach will be announced asap.

I would not be surprised if Sheens already has a new coach.

He's not even in the Country, And hasn't been coaching O/S for more than 12 months - And was doing nothing before that....
He knows football, But would be that far out of the Loop in Sydney it's not funny...

There is Zoom, Teams etc. Many job interviews are conducted this way today.

Right now, I'm thankful we have someone of Sheens' experience to provide guidance.

Of course there is - But generally the people conducting them have been in or around the organisation in the decade prior to conducting them...
If you think he's picking coaches from the other side of the world without having his feet under the desk and getting a feel for where the joint is at - You're off your face!!

Our CEO obviously considers Sheens has been "in and around the organisation" enough to conduct a review. I'd say Sheens would be more across issues than Maguire. Perhaps having a relatively independent view on matters is exactly what we need so Maguire can be jettisoned and a new coach with some idea appointed.

Where has it been said Sheens is responsible for the review?
He's not in the country until just prior to pre-season....


To the best of my knowledge nobody credible has stated that Sheens is doing the review.A few randoms who dislike Madge are pushing the angle that Sheens is doing it and the rumour seems to be feeding off itself.

I haven't heard Sheens is doing the review it is Pascoe and Hartigan apparently


That is what i have heard also,personally i would rather it was done by someone external from the club(not B.Smith)

who would you get to do the review ?

 

[batboy]

The Chammas article where our Chairman refers to the results not reflecting the financial investment in the football dept etc is the end for Maguire. He refers to the review time period being a week. Hopefully a new coach will be announced asap.

I would not be surprised if Sheens already has a new coach.

He's not even in the Country, And hasn't been coaching O/S for more than 12 months - And was doing nothing before that....
He knows football, But would be that far out of the Loop in Sydney it's not funny...

There is Zoom, Teams etc. Many job interviews are conducted this way today.

Right now, I'm thankful we have someone of Sheens' experience to provide guidance.

Of course there is - But generally the people conducting them have been in or around the organisation in the decade prior to conducting them...
If you think he's picking coaches from the other side of the world without having his feet under the desk and getting a feel for where the joint is at - You're off your face!!

Our CEO obviously considers Sheens has been "in and around the organisation" enough to conduct a review. I'd say Sheens would be more across issues than Maguire. Perhaps having a relatively independent view on matters is exactly what we need so Maguire can be jettisoned and a new coach with some idea appointed.

Where has it been said Sheens is responsible for the review?
He's not in the country until just prior to pre-season....

It was on this forum. Interviews of key staff and players can be undertaken by Zoom, Teams etc?

You're. Not. Listening.

He's not here, He hasn't been here....
Hasn't been here for a decade

He's not ringing in a review from overseas!!
How you process that - is up to you.

 

[jadtiger]

The Chammas article where our Chairman refers to the results not reflecting the financial investment in the football dept etc is the end for Maguire. He refers to the review time period being a week. Hopefully a new coach will be announced asap.

I would not be surprised if Sheens already has a new coach.

He's not even in the Country, And hasn't been coaching O/S for more than 12 months - And was doing nothing before that....
He knows football, But would be that far out of the Loop in Sydney it's not funny...

There is Zoom, Teams etc. Many job interviews are conducted this way today.

Right now, I'm thankful we have someone of Sheens' experience to provide guidance.

Of course there is - But generally the people conducting them have been in or around the organisation in the decade prior to conducting them...
If you think he's picking coaches from the other side of the world without having his feet under the desk and getting a feel for where the joint is at - You're off your face!!

Our CEO obviously considers Sheens has been "in and around the organisation" enough to conduct a review. I'd say Sheens would be more across issues than Maguire. Perhaps having a relatively independent view on matters is exactly what we need so Maguire can be jettisoned and a new coach with some idea appointed.

Where has it been said Sheens is responsible for the review?
He's not in the country until just prior to pre-season....


To the best of my knowledge nobody credible has stated that Sheens is doing the review.A few randoms who dislike Madge are pushing the angle that Sheens is doing it and the rumour seems to be feeding off itself.

I haven't heard Sheens is doing the review it is Pascoe and Hartigan apparently


That is what i have heard also,personally i would rather it was done by someone external from the club(not B.Smith)

who would you get to do the review ?

A very good question,Gould would have been my choice but now he is at the dogs that would be impossible.Probably someone who has not coached for a few years someone like Toovey

 

[batboy]

Holbrook got the Titans in to the finals Madge couldn't get us in
always next year

His squad bests us in almost every position....
in fact - There are player in his squad that are heads and shoulders above ours, And they only won a few more games than us....

You get that just because we have 30 Players (No one else wants)
Doesn't automatically mean we can compete....

 

[jirskyr]

The writing is on the wall whether it’s rightly or wrongly it hasn’t worked with Madge, he’s taken the playing group backwards. **When the journo‘s are openly saying the reason we can’t attract talent is the coach that’s it you’re done**. We all know for all the rubbish they write this part at least is reasonably documented. We have to move quickly not a huge fan of Flanno, Morris & Ciraldo are really the only other options it will be one of those 3 I’m guessing.

So the journo’s say who’s in and who’s out now. That’ll do me.

Wake up mate I said they are openly saying it, they have been for some time it’s pretty clear Madge can’t attract players if you can’t see that you’re asleep.

Tell me ALL the players all the other coaches attracted over the years....
By my count, It's about 3-4 Top line Signings (In 22 Years)

Not counting the good fortune signings like Scott Prince and Pat Richards... Even with those, It's not 10!!

In 22 years - We haven't signed 10 top line players....
Change the coach as often as you like - You can't (and won't) change that.

I'm just waiting for the big hurt when we sack Madge and the new coach still can't jag top-tier signings.

There's the reality of the Tigers - no finals, don't generally make big signings, can't get consistency out of the roster, and there's the fantasy land where a change in coach fixes it all. I think most in favour of sacking Madge are simply in favour of a big shake-up, rather than specifically caring who the new coach is or whether or not that coach can fix the issues endemic to the club.

E.g. so many folks talking up the return of Tim Sheens and the pathways / experience / stability he may bring, totally ignoring the fact that Sheens took us to 3 finals in 10 years, and for some folks that strike rate would actually be better than zero in 10 years, again ignoring that the benchmark should really be 5 in 10 years. I mean Tim Sheens coming back, Benji came back, Farah came back... none of those guys had serial success at Wests Tigers.

 

[Telltails]

The writing is on the wall whether it’s rightly or wrongly it hasn’t worked with Madge, he’s taken the playing group backwards. **When the journo‘s are openly saying the reason we can’t attract talent is the coach that’s it you’re done**. We all know for all the rubbish they write this part at least is reasonably documented. We have to move quickly not a huge fan of Flanno, Morris & Ciraldo are really the only other options it will be one of those 3 I’m guessing.

So the journo’s say who’s in and who’s out now. That’ll do me.

Wake up mate I said they are openly saying it, they have been for some time it’s pretty clear Madge can’t attract players if you can’t see that you’re asleep.

players do not want to come to wests tigers under Madge
look at Latrell he didn't want hard training that Madge brings chose Bennett.
JAC likely similar and also tpj
make a decision

Not buying that. They didn't want the pressure turning around a club without the players needed beside them to make it feasible. It destroys players. Teddy didn't want it, and why would any player subject themselves to that when they are just as attractive to all clubs.

No they do not want to be coached by Maguire.
look at benji Madge dropped him etc last year yes he kicked stones but the guy talks to players so does Matterson and Alloia.
If we want to move forward Madge is not the man to lead us

Benji was lucky to get picked up by Souths on a minimun contract as a back up player. Benji could never be a back uo player at WTs and for that reason moving him on was the only decision that could be made with Brooks and Douehi ahead of him.Matterson played his best footy at WTs and got a place in origin while at the club, and it is well documented Alolai had no problem with Maguire he was in line for the captaincy until he got a ridiculous money offer from Manly - worth way more than anything he has produced on the field.
As if any quality player would want to line up next to that yesterday, who wants to be successful when they have options to play elsewhere with players who are expected to perform and want to achieve success.

 

[momo_amp_medo]

I’m pretty much convinced that the Club already decided Madges fate after the Cronulla game.
The players, whether intentionally or not, put the nail to his coffin with yesterday’s inept performance.
Also I think the club really didn’t want to go down this path but in the end the cards fell like they did and they now have no choice.
My opinion ……… Only face saving solution is high profile appointment (like Bennet or even Sheens) to mentor with a rookie coaching team for one or two seasons.
In the end I’m sorry to see Madge go, like the guy but results are just not there.

 

[jirskyr]

Imagine a struggling club giving the SuperCoach a 10 day deadline to decide if he is going to leave his current club a year early.
Should of, from day one agreed to move on from Cleary internally, agreed with Bennett to start in 2020 and figured out the rest afterwards.

That's not the narrative though. There wasn't a guarantee Bennett would ever leave Brisbane, because it was a tug of war between him and certain senior elements on the Broncos Board.

Bennett said, now in writing, he was open to taking the Tigers position but couldn't honourably leave his Broncos side a year early (also contractually he's not permitted to). Now maybe Bennett is some mad loyalist or maybe he was forcing the Broncos' hand for a super-duper payout for his troubles, but whatever the reason he was hanging around until at least the end of his contract, and if he could outstay or out-result the naysayers within the Broncos, there's also a chance he re-signs with Broncos. Wayne Bennett is not a political mug, he's been at it for a very long time.

So I don't see anywhere suggested that Bennett was willing to sign on for 2020 with Tigers without knowing his exact future at Broncos. That was never the offer and I've never heard it said that Bennett was willing to come a year later. Bennett has only ever said "I can't leave the Broncos right now". And then, months later, Bennett gets the chop.

 

[jirskyr]

Holbrook got the Titans in to the finals Madge couldn't get us in
always next year

Can you kindly give Madge access to David Fifita and Big Tino? Titans made the finals by the skin of their teeth and David Fifita alone is enough to make that one game difference.

Let's see if Titans actually factor at all in the finals, or dump out Week 1.

 

[Spartan117]

Not buying that. They didn’t want the pressure turning around a club without the players needed beside them to make it feasible

This is correct and the fact that Player signings momentum is with the Dogs at the moment.

This is the truth.

Madge Has shown himself to be an incredible mentor 1 on 1.

 

[Tiger5150]

I dont think the club is dumb enough to punt Madge.

He isnt perfect, but

He is the only one with a heart beat in the joint.

Were lucky if he stays.

I have been 100% in this camp until now. THere is clearly something badly broken and it is not being fixed. The most likely problem is the coach. It is possible that somehow its not Madges fault, but somehow the board, but less likely IMO.

 

[SeanT]

Madge,Brooks.and Nofo and others. I don't want to see any of them here next year.

 

[avocadoontoast]

I dont think the club is dumb enough to punt Madge.

He isnt perfect, but

He is the only one with a heart beat in the joint.

Were lucky if he stays.

I have been 100% in this camp until now. THere is clearly something badly broken and it is not being fixed. The most likely problem is the coach. It is possible that somehow its not Madges fault, but somehow the board, but less likely IMO.

As one of the founding members of the sack Madge camp, i'd like to take this opportunity to welcome you aboard.

 

[Tiger5150]

I dont think the club is dumb enough to punt Madge.

He isnt perfect, but

He is the only one with a heart beat in the joint.

Were lucky if he stays.

I have been 100% in this camp until now. THere is clearly something badly broken and it is not being fixed. The most likely problem is the coach. It is possible that somehow its not Madges fault, but somehow the board, but less likely IMO.

As one of the founding members of the sack Madge camp, i'd like to take this opportunity to welcome you aboard.

Im a late adopter.

FWIW I have wanted Madge to stay because I can see that he is clearly committed to the club, probably the most committed coach we have had since Junior. I can see what the club has set up as a massive positive and I have been very concerned at the damage of sacking "another" coach (I realise that we havent actually sacked that many coaches but it is the public perception) .

I think now that a continuation of the current situation is becoming more damaging than sacking Madge would be.

 

[jirskyr]

The writing is on the wall whether it’s rightly or wrongly it hasn’t worked with Madge, he’s taken the playing group backwards. **When the journo‘s are openly saying the reason we can’t attract talent is the coach that’s it you’re done**. We all know for all the rubbish they write this part at least is reasonably documented. We have to move quickly not a huge fan of Flanno, Morris & Ciraldo are really the only other options it will be one of those 3 I’m guessing.

So the journo’s say who’s in and who’s out now. That’ll do me.

Wake up mate I said they are openly saying it, they have been for some time it’s pretty clear Madge can’t attract players if you can’t see that you’re asleep.

players do not want to come to wests tigers under Madge
look at Latrell he didn't want hard training that Madge brings chose Bennett.
JAC likely similar and also tpj
make a decision

Not buying that. They didn't want the pressure turning around a club without the players needed beside them to make it feasible. It destroys players. Teddy didn't want it, and why would any player subject themselves to that when they are just as attractive to all clubs.

I think honestly that's the new way of things. It's become clear over the last 5-10 years that certain clubs are almost always in the finals other clubs are almost always not in the finals. The rest fight out for the scraps, and periodically you get one or two teams falling into or out of the top-tier band.

Now know as the "haves" and "have-nots". Fundamentally it's always a core 5-6 teams in contention, usually including Roosters and Storm. Souths have been around that space for about 10 years, Eels joined it briefly (and appear on their way back out), Manly are ascendant right now and that would be at the expense of Raiders falling out. Penrith have come to the fore after a few seasons around the bottom 8 (that's a team maturity thing, having the right roster that suddenly clicks).

So in line with that understanding, I agree with you it makes it increasingly difficult to sign key players to lower sides at the same time as having a boon crop of juniors. And I don't just mean 1 or 2 notable players, I mean the key group of players that make a weekly difference over the course of a yearly campaign.

Almost to the point now, it seems the most elite footballers are more interested in success than money, like your Latrells and Tedescos signing on at ascendant clubs when they could definitely get more money elsewhere. I think a lot of that has to do with the value of modern salaries: we are talking half a million for middle-tier footballers, and even the bottom footballers get over a hundred grand. I think 10+ years ago, when the TV money wasn't so great, it was a very big difference $300K vs $400K. But $800K vs $900K? The same price gap becomes less significant the more you earn.

I'm guessing also endorsements are much easier to pick up when you are in a successful club and doing well - your personal brand shines. Look at all those deals Tedesco has managed since he joined Roosters - Nike, I think it's Menulog now; he's got a few others.

People have been asking - why is NRL increasingly favouring the haves over the have-nots? I believe that's one of the key reasons - the challenge for struggling clubs to make big-impact signings.

Of course the lower sides do manage to pick up top players from time to time, but very often those players are at such costs that they destabilise that side's salary cap. Very often those players don't transform a lower side into a top side. E.g. Warriors sign RTS, AFB, Reece Walsh, Tohu Harris - quality signings all of them, and very little difference in outcome for the franchise. Dragons signed Ben Hunt, Corey Norman, Tariq Sims, Paul Vaughan etc. and that hasn't worked either. Newcastle, even with Ponga, Pearce, Klemmer are barely a factor in the finals. I think Bulldogs are going to face the same issues - they have some notable signings but I don't think they are transformative signings, maybe Matt Burton, but he can't do it alone.

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

Holbrook got the Titans in to the finals Madge couldn't get us in
always next year

Can you kindly give Madge access to David Fifita and Big Tino? Titans made the finals by the skin of their teeth and David Fifita alone is enough to make that one game difference.

Let's see if Titans actually factor at all in the finals, or dump out Week 1.

eve if he had Fifita he woukd stuff it up with his coaching and team selection

 

[Oggyz]

I thought Madge was a good get for us. Well credentialed and I thought his hard nosed style was just what we needed. But the fact is, under his guidance, results have gone backwards and recruitment of established players has all but stopped. The only improvement has been our salary cap position.
No one is more disappointed than I to say Maguire has not worked at the Tigers and it’s time to move him on.