Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[happy_tiger]

Anybody see the part of the doco today where Madge wanted the game stopped when Stefano was hurt. Raiders move up field and score against 12. That summed up Wests Tigers for me, cam smith would have stopped the game, unpacked a picnic and waited for Stef to recover all before the 3rd tackle.

Saw it.

Russell is set to come on. Madge is saying down to the bench, stop the game, stop the game.

I’ve seen it many times where the ref will let the play continue on even if our player is unable to continue, think in this case it was due to head knock.

Unfortunately the Raiders scored on our 12 men.

I’m wondering who is at fault. Were the bench not trying hard enough to get the refs attention or was the ref not having any of it?

Official rule below:

Trainers
In 2021, where a trainer asks a match official to stop the game for an injury, the injured player must be either interchanged or taken off the field for a period of two minutes of elapsed game time before he is permitted to resume his place on the field. This will reduce the number of stoppages for minor injuries.

While it might not be the official way of doing things, I believe a captain worth his salt could influence a ref to stop play. Certainly Cam Smith could.

I think the club needs moi as a trainer .....I would have tackled one of the Canberra players to stop the play lol ..and the trainer should have ran through the play and grabbed the ref ......

 

[TrueTiger]

I'm a huge Madge fan, but from what I can see he's a dead man walking.

Let's not forget that he was dumped by Souths for allegedly losing the support of the playing group.

It's looking like that's exactly what's happening here.

With Tim Sheens coming on board, it's just a matter of time.

To be fair, I think that's a good move too. He's a club legend and will have mega respect and influence from the board down.


God help us if Sheens has much influence in coaching.He was sacked here and had a low percentage win rate in ESL.As long as he stays where he is supposed to be in pathways he should be ok

**the two seasons prior to being sacked we finished top 4.** In UK his win record has been 58%.

So why was he sacked?
I honestly can’t remember, too long ago, I remember it wasn’t pleasant and most were pleased. I thought it was results driven?
I do think he’s been away from the NRL scene too long to offer much in the way of game day tactics, but he will still know what a good player looks like?

We were favs to win in 2012 (the year he was sacked) and when we didn't make the 8 he was ditched. He'd been here for 10 years and our expectations that year were to win it.

He's coached over 650 NRL games and has still been involved in the game since he left here. In many ways the way the game is currently played is a perfect match for his style of coaching. I think he'd be the sort of coach that could get us on the right track pretty quickly.

Are you now saying you want him as coach?

As i've previously mentioned, my preference would be to have someone like Gardiner/Ciraldo/Morris take over the head coaching role with Sheens sitting above as Coaching Director.

But surely you will agree that a coaching director will be the coach, while the poor coach will basically be the assistant but cop the blame when the directors plans go awry?

Not necessarily, depends on how it's structured. But if Sheens was made head coach i'd have no major issues with that either, provided a succession plan was in place.

We're at a place now where we make a change or just blindly hope that Madge can improve the team.

So blindly hoping Tim can is better?
You don’t think the players are letting the team down, at all?

When you're on a downward trajectory like us, sticking with the status quo and hoping for it to turn around is blind hope. Is it blind hope to think Sheens can do better? In his 3rd season with us he won a premiership, whilst in Madge's 3rd season he's trying to avoid the spoon.

As for the players, I think a lot of them are an embarrassment, but when you sign a coaching contract you have to get the best out of the players you've got. He's also signed a number of players so it's not entirely Cleary's dud roster anymore (which Madge still got to 9th). A really good coach can adapt his style to suit the playing group he's got. I haven't seen any evidence of him adapting whatsoever.

So what is your strategy for success, is it to roll over the roster until he finally gets a team that can play for him? And is that practical? You asked me earlier why we got rid of Sheens. Why did Souths get rid of Madge?

Roll over the roster until you get a team that can play for Wests Tigers and not just bludge to get their pay packet. Madge should say a few more things like his we need men comment, this would further help identify those players with a bad attitude.

Hypothetically, in your opinion, how many of the 30 would you need to be rolled over for him to finally get the team he needs to be competitive?

As many as it takes. It’s not what Madge needs to be competitive it’s what Wests Tigers need to be competitive. This player crap has been going on for over 10 years now, long before Madge, and it has to stop. The players and the player culture is the problem and the players need to held accountable.

So you're willing to give him another 3-5 years to clear out the rosterf completely??

Whatever it takes to fix the culture and have players be held to account. It’s not giving Madge another 3-5 years it’s giving the club time to get its house in order and get rid of this poisonous attitude that percolates through the successive playing groups.

And that's fair enough, I just don't think Madge is the man who can fix it.

The club as a whole needs to fix it. It’s not just the coach. Like I said this has been happening for over a decade and through successive coaches . It needs to be a team approach through all aspects of the organisation. That goes for the Board, staff (both corporate and football) and players. Anyone who allows the players to perpetuate the poor attitude needs to go along with the player(s).

I think we are making very good progress with pathways and I think Pascoe was very proactive getting Sheens on board. I think as a club we're moving in the right direction in all ways except on field. My opinion is Madge is the weak link, but happy to be proven wrong.

Sheens reporting directly to Pascoe suggests the latter wants what is broken fixed.

Who else is Sheens going to report to? If he reports to Madge, he's an assistant coach, but also I don't believe anyone in pathways reports to Madge, that's not Madge's primary job.

He could report to Hartigan. The link to the WTs' release certainly suggests Maguire reports to Hartigan.

https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2020/11/09/wests-tigers-confirm-2021-football-department

The press release doesn't say anything about Hartigan at all. He's just in the list.

While not being 100%, I believe that Hartigan is above Madge. But that comes from pretty much the same conversations that you have been involved in lol

I don't think it's like school where you have a Principal - Deputy - Leaders of Learning etc hierarchical chain of reporting ..

It is a team structure with all being responsible..

While working together,each has an individual role,helping each other to strengthen the team,squad club and players ...this is what the WTs are working on so as the future is brighter with a winning culture and stronger organisation as a whole...

 

[GCfan]

I don’t think it will matter what the doco shows regarding Madge. The supporters will use snippets to justify Madges position and the haters will find evidence supporting why he should be sacked. I’m keen to watch and get more insight as to goings on behind the scenes good or bad.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Good leaders surround themselves with the very best people. Interesting you express the need to surround Maguire with the very best people.



Paws, There is only so much that an organisation is able to empower and support their key Personnel.

The Tigers have a stable business now despite the lack of on the field success in the last decade. This is allowing them to bring in better people.

I find it interesting if the need for better assistants is coming from officials other than Maguire ie that they recognise he is struggling big time.

If you are changing the support personnel to strengthen a weak coach, why not just change the coach and still bring in the new support personnel?

 

[jirskyr]

I'm a huge Madge fan, but from what I can see he's a dead man walking.

Let's not forget that he was dumped by Souths for allegedly losing the support of the playing group.

It's looking like that's exactly what's happening here.

With Tim Sheens coming on board, it's just a matter of time.

To be fair, I think that's a good move too. He's a club legend and will have mega respect and influence from the board down.


God help us if Sheens has much influence in coaching.He was sacked here and had a low percentage win rate in ESL.As long as he stays where he is supposed to be in pathways he should be ok

**the two seasons prior to being sacked we finished top 4.** In UK his win record has been 58%.

So why was he sacked?
I honestly can’t remember, too long ago, I remember it wasn’t pleasant and most were pleased. I thought it was results driven?
I do think he’s been away from the NRL scene too long to offer much in the way of game day tactics, but he will still know what a good player looks like?

We were favs to win in 2012 (the year he was sacked) and when we didn't make the 8 he was ditched. He'd been here for 10 years and our expectations that year were to win it.

He's coached over 650 NRL games and has still been involved in the game since he left here. In many ways the way the game is currently played is a perfect match for his style of coaching. I think he'd be the sort of coach that could get us on the right track pretty quickly.

Are you now saying you want him as coach?

As i've previously mentioned, my preference would be to have someone like Gardiner/Ciraldo/Morris take over the head coaching role with Sheens sitting above as Coaching Director.

But surely you will agree that a coaching director will be the coach, while the poor coach will basically be the assistant but cop the blame when the directors plans go awry?

Not necessarily, depends on how it's structured. But if Sheens was made head coach i'd have no major issues with that either, provided a succession plan was in place.

We're at a place now where we make a change or just blindly hope that Madge can improve the team.

So blindly hoping Tim can is better?
You don’t think the players are letting the team down, at all?

When you're on a downward trajectory like us, sticking with the status quo and hoping for it to turn around is blind hope. Is it blind hope to think Sheens can do better? In his 3rd season with us he won a premiership, whilst in Madge's 3rd season he's trying to avoid the spoon.

As for the players, I think a lot of them are an embarrassment, but when you sign a coaching contract you have to get the best out of the players you've got. He's also signed a number of players so it's not entirely Cleary's dud roster anymore (which Madge still got to 9th). A really good coach can adapt his style to suit the playing group he's got. I haven't seen any evidence of him adapting whatsoever.

So what is your strategy for success, is it to roll over the roster until he finally gets a team that can play for him? And is that practical? You asked me earlier why we got rid of Sheens. Why did Souths get rid of Madge?

Roll over the roster until you get a team that can play for Wests Tigers and not just bludge to get their pay packet. Madge should say a few more things like his we need men comment, this would further help identify those players with a bad attitude.

Hypothetically, in your opinion, how many of the 30 would you need to be rolled over for him to finally get the team he needs to be competitive?

As many as it takes. It’s not what Madge needs to be competitive it’s what Wests Tigers need to be competitive. This player crap has been going on for over 10 years now, long before Madge, and it has to stop. The players and the player culture is the problem and the players need to held accountable.

So you're willing to give him another 3-5 years to clear out the rosterf completely??

Whatever it takes to fix the culture and have players be held to account. It’s not giving Madge another 3-5 years it’s giving the club time to get its house in order and get rid of this poisonous attitude that percolates through the successive playing groups.

And that's fair enough, I just don't think Madge is the man who can fix it.

The club as a whole needs to fix it. It’s not just the coach. Like I said this has been happening for over a decade and through successive coaches . It needs to be a team approach through all aspects of the organisation. That goes for the Board, staff (both corporate and football) and players. Anyone who allows the players to perpetuate the poor attitude needs to go along with the player(s).

I think we are making very good progress with pathways and I think Pascoe was very proactive getting Sheens on board. I think as a club we're moving in the right direction in all ways except on field. My opinion is Madge is the weak link, but happy to be proven wrong.

Sheens reporting directly to Pascoe suggests the latter wants what is broken fixed.

Who else is Sheens going to report to? If he reports to Madge, he's an assistant coach, but also I don't believe anyone in pathways reports to Madge, that's not Madge's primary job.

He could report to Hartigan. The link to the WTs' release certainly suggests Maguire reports to Hartigan.

https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2020/11/09/wests-tigers-confirm-2021-football-department

The press release doesn't say anything about Hartigan at all. He's just in the list.

While not being 100%, I believe that Hartigan is above Madge. But that comes from pretty much the same conversations that you have been involved in lol

I didn't get that impression at all, but I've never seen him and Madge in the same room.

https://www.espn.com.au/nrl/story/_/id/28694534/building-nrl-premiership-winning-team-draft-free-league

"I think it's important that the senior coach has complete buy-in as to which players are coming in. Otherwise if they don't have that buy-in it's harder for them to believe in that player when they are coaching them.

"It's the same with Madge (Michael Maguire, Tigers head coach) I think it is important that your coach has a say, it's not necessarily the final say, but they need to be across what direction we are going with when it comes to recruitment.

That's only about recruitment however. I know for a fact Madge does not have exclusive say on recruitment, because there is a panel.

Not the same thing as reporting to someone in terms or line or performance management.

 

[Batmans Parents]

Really can't believe the posters advocating for Madge to be sacked. How many times do we have to repeat the same mistakes until we start holding the players to account for their shit and lazy performances? At some point, you have to realise the common denominator over all these years is the playing group having a sook at some point during each coaches tenure. Most recently because he he said he needed "men", last year because they were training too hard (LOL) and felt like they were walking on eggshells AKA being held accountable for their shit performances.

Players like Garner (laughing when he gives away dumb penalties), Nofo (lets in at least two tries a match and publicly blames others during and after the match) , Mbye (gives zero effort), and BJ (throwing a tantrum because someone is tackling his brother in a game of rugby league) are team cancers, who I bet are the ones having a sook via text, should be shown the door but people still feel the need to blame the coach and demand he be sacked without releasing that is something we have done repeatedly over the last 10 years and it's yielded zero results. Madge has won premierships in the two best RL comps but people on here want to sack him instead of looking at the bludgers in the team. It only takes a couple to bring a team down and I'd say we have more than a couple in this one.

 

[Lauren]

Really can't believe the posters advocating for Madge to be sacked. How many times do we have to repeat the same mistakes until we start holding the players to account for their shit and lazy performances? At some point, you have to realise the common denominator over all these years is the playing group having a sook at some point during each coaches tenure. Most recently because he he said he needed "men", last year because they were training too hard (LOL) and felt like they were walking on eggshells AKA being held accountable for their shit performances.

Players like Garner (laughing when he gives away dumb penalties), Nofo (lets in at least two tries a match and publicly blames others during and after the match) , Mbye (gives zero effort), and BJ (throwing a tantrum because someone is tackling his brother in a game of rugby league) are team cancers, who I bet are the ones having a sook via text, should be shown the door but people still feel the need to blame the coach and demand he be sacked without releasing that is something we have done repeatedly over the last 10 years and it's yielded zero results. Madge has won premierships in the two best RL comps but people on here want to sack him instead of looking at the bludgers in the team. It only takes a couple to bring a team down and I'd say we have more than a couple in this one.

Don't think it's that black and white.
From what I've personally read, (mostly) all considered opinions take every factor into account including our coaching instability and poor club culture.

There's some who don't necessarily want him gone but rather changes or additional support with his coaching role. Some people wish the governance of the club were more proactive in reviewal of the team's and Madge's coaching performances, as organically we're not sufficiently progressing/building as a team or look unable to sustain a certain standard of performance required for NRL level.
Then there's those who don't see any promise with the team achieving their full potential or any  capacity of them playing to the best of their ability - all for various reasons, but most are due to his coaching.
Some of us only really care about our functionality and competitiveness on the field above anything tbh and with everything looking so grim, with little improvements seen this year, are inpatient with certain things which are setting us back.
I know I personally can't stand the selection process he's applied since coaching the team.

The only common denominator I personally recognise is the club's ineffectuality to enforce or uphold policies which prevent poor behaviour and sometimes the inability to embody and demonstrate leadership.
For me, it's always felt like we don't (as an organisation) have a clearly communicated/defined and shared mission yer moreso that we're constantly chopping and changing at an excessive rate, with no goal in sight.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Anybody see the part of the doco today where Madge wanted the game stopped when Stefano was hurt. Raiders move up field and score against 12. That summed up Wests Tigers for me, cam smith would have stopped the game, unpacked a picnic and waited for Stef to recover all before the 3rd tackle.

Saw it.

Russell is set to come on. Madge is saying down to the bench, stop the game, stop the game.

I’ve seen it many times where the ref will let the play continue on even if our player is unable to continue, think in this case it was due to head knock.

Unfortunately the Raiders scored on our 12 men.

I’m wondering who is at fault. Were the bench not trying hard enough to get the refs attention or was the ref not having any of it?

Official rule below:

Trainers
In 2021, where a trainer asks a match official to stop the game for an injury, the injured player must be either interchanged or taken off the field for a period of two minutes of elapsed game time before he is permitted to resume his place on the field. This will reduce the number of stoppages for minor injuries.

While it might not be the official way of doing things, I believe a captain worth his salt could influence a ref to stop play. Certainly Cam Smith could.

Hard to know with our captain when he spends little time on the field to influence anything.

 

[Tiger_Fanatic3]

Madge tears up over Wests Tigers’ horror NRL season

The Wests Tigers have struggled this season and some new never-before-seen footage shows it has all become too much for their coach.

**( Just reading this article really breaks my heart )**

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/nrl/michael-maguire-tears-up-over-wests-tigers-horror-nrl-season/news-story/d0f269f9155c341d08fece21bd3ca154

 

[851]

Madge tears up over Wests Tigers’ horror NRL season

The Wests Tigers have struggled this season and some new never-before-seen footage shows it has all become too much for their coach.

**( Just reading this article really breaks my heart )**

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/nrl/michael-maguire-tears-up-over-wests-tigers-horror-nrl-season/news-story/d0f269f9155c341d08fece21bd3ca154

They are talking rounds 1 to 4, it is round 18 and we are no better, still making the same dumb mistakes with the same players every week, and that is 100% on him.
I don't feel sorry for him, I feel sorry for the fans who have to put up with this crap every week.

 

[851]

John Morris signs on as assistant coach for souths in 2022 and 2023

 

[Snake]

John Morris signs on as assistant coach for souths in 2022 and 2023

This is exactly the reason why some clubs forge forward and other clubs are just mediocre..that is a great signing for South’s a Young coach with runs on the board and knows how the new game works and has the ability to get into the younger generational heads and a head coach that surrounds himself with knowledge.
Next season at a the Tigers Fossils INC!!!!

 

[851]

John Morris signs on as assistant coach for souths in 2022 and 2023

This is exactly the reason why some clubs forge forward and other clubs are just mediocre..that is a great signing for South’s a Young coach with runs on the board and knows how the new game works and has the ability to get into the younger generational heads and a head coach that surrounds himself with knowledge.
Next season at a the Tigers Fossils INC!!!!

Spot on, Madge wouldn’t hire someone who could take his job, he hires Millard and the like, does my head in.
Morris would be a better head coach than the one we have now

 

[BAGNF05]

Really can't believe the posters advocating for Madge to be sacked. How many times do we have to repeat the same mistakes until we start holding the players to account for their shit and lazy performances? At some point, you have to realise the common denominator over all these years is the playing group having a sook at some point during each coaches tenure. Most recently because he he said he needed "men", last year because they were training too hard (LOL) and felt like they were walking on eggshells AKA being held accountable for their shit performances.

Players like Garner (laughing when he gives away dumb penalties), Nofo (lets in at least two tries a match and publicly blames others during and after the match) , Mbye (gives zero effort), and BJ (throwing a tantrum because someone is tackling his brother in a game of rugby league) are team cancers, who I bet are the ones having a sook via text, should be shown the door but people still feel the need to blame the coach and demand he be sacked without releasing that is something we have done repeatedly over the last 10 years and it's yielded zero results. Madge has won premierships in the two best RL comps but people on here want to sack him instead of looking at the bludgers in the team. It only takes a couple to bring a team down and I'd say we have more than a couple in this one.

Excellent post full of facts. The people that keep signing these weak characters also should move on and give someone else a shot.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Madge tears up over Wests Tigers’ horror NRL season

The Wests Tigers have struggled this season and some new never-before-seen footage shows it has all become too much for their coach.

**( Just reading this article really breaks my heart )**

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/nrl/michael-maguire-tears-up-over-wests-tigers-horror-nrl-season/news-story/d0f269f9155c341d08fece21bd3ca154

I don't think anyone denies McGuire's passion and I certainly don't, nor disagree with his belief that his group can make the eight and his genuine disappointment that they haven't already achieved that within their abilities thus far this season.

I do though differ in that I dont believe he is the coach that can get them there.

 

[Merlot]

John Morris signs on as assistant coach for souths in 2022 and 2023

This is exactly the reason why some clubs forge forward and other clubs are just mediocre..that is a great signing for South’s a Young coach with runs on the board and knows how the new game works and has the ability to get into the younger generational heads and a head coach that surrounds himself with knowledge.
Next season at a the Tigers Fossils INC!!!!

Spot on, Madge wouldn’t hire someone who could take his job, he hires Millard and the like, does my head in.
Morris would be a better head coach than the one we have now

Morris only did well because he coached all their up n coming talent,which the sharkies and tigers have lacked4 a long time imo.bad mistake sharkies shafted him

 

[Merlot]

Madge has nothing 2 loose giving more reggies a run.its only mathmaticialy we make the 8,

 

[TheDaBoss]

Morris gone to rabbits

Thought we had him

 

[kiwitiger]

Madge tears up over Wests Tigers’ horror NRL season

The Wests Tigers have struggled this season and some new never-before-seen footage shows it has all become too much for their coach.

**( Just reading this article really breaks my heart )**

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/nrl/michael-maguire-tears-up-over-wests-tigers-horror-nrl-season/news-story/d0f269f9155c341d08fece21bd3ca154

I read that and the cynic in me wonders how much of this is for the cameras?

 

[TigerWest]

Madge has nothing 2 loose giving more reggies a run.its only mathmaticialy we make the 8,

But I don't think you can drop the chance though, until it's really over.