Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[the_third]

I’ve been trying to avoid this thread so not sure if it has already been pointed out just how unhappy the Tigers players look after scoring.

The hug each other high-five, genuine joy to score and be leading is absent. Go watch any reply over the last 6 weeks or so.

A group of people that don’t even enjoy scoring suggests something is MASSIVELY wrong with team identity, relationships and overall happiness.

I don’t remember a more unhappy Tigers squad.

Either, we have some relational splits in the playing group or the playing group is split from the coaching group.

Half the team are being shopped around

Hopefully thats true!

Problem is nobody wants them

Jettison the coach and I believe you will see a big improvement.

Starts from the top. Get Sheens in and he makes the call on recruitment people and coach. If he says Madge is the man then that’s how you run a club. If he feels people won’t sign because of Madge and Madge can’t get the players better then he gets sacked. Simple. We have lacked anyone with rugby league nous and experience of Sheens caliber forever.

While Sheens is at the club, isn't the logical decision to appoint a highly capable young coach as Head Coach? Make full use of Sheens knowledge by mentoring a young coach.

I have concerns about putting a rookie coach into this club

Is that because the people behind the scenes don't have the nous to properly direct and look after a less experienced coach?

I just think this is the most difficult job in the competition with lots of unique circumstances. Only one coach has been able to control those circumstances and he did so by bending the club to his direction. Even with that he had more poor years than successful years at the club, I just don't think it is a very good place to learn how to be an NRL coach.

Thanks, I think we all value your insight. What are some of the unique circumstances in your opinion?

Basically I just think it is the history of the club, it's success, how it was formed, its ownership structure and governance. For a rookie coach I would want an environment where they can just focus on coaching and not having to worry about external factors. I just don't think Wests Tigers would be an easy place to do that.

There are very few coaches that I think would have a high chance of success at the Wests Tigers, everyone else comes with major issues they would need to overcome

Who are the few coaches you think would succeed here

Bellamy and Robinson, 2 guys that would just come in and take over. Though I often wonder if we would have destroyed Bellamy's career if he came here as a rookie.

the question is why, and why isn't it fixed.

The board seem to be a constant in all of this. New coaches, new players. Only the decision makers are the same, and us fans.

glad we turn a profit. lol

 

[tigertuff]

Clearly he’s feeling the pressure by trying to defend himself with “look at all the young blokes I’ve given debuts too”. Falls on deaf ears when all of them bar Laurie have been in and out of the team all season. If I’m a youngster, I’m not going to the tigers because my development will continuously struggle because I can be in and out of the team after one game.

Jnr devlpmnt dont work like that
Someone mentioned hes given most of the rookies two games, not sure if
thats accurate or not...but if it is it sounds like a pre concieved plan
to blood a lot of promising junior

Weve also had Stef ...not just Laurie

And just because you debut doesnt automatically guarantee you a starting spot, hard work
and another off season is at play here as well as cap management

Anything worthwile is never easy, but i think a lot of players have your attitude these
days, that its easier and better elsewhere

I also like giving a young guy a taste of first grade and sending them back down to work on the things that they need improve with that knowledge and experience they gained from that time in the top grade.

That’s fine as long as they know what to work on. I can’t see any development at all in anyone. For example, You would think our hookers would be developing kicking games by now and being given the confidence to do these things also. It’s always left to Brooks because no one else does it. When you watch the storm you have backrowers , centres ,wingers hookers ,all of them doing it because it’s everyones job to do what ever is required. It’s always someone else’s job in our team, it’s a joke.

 

[cochise]

Clearly he’s feeling the pressure by trying to defend himself with “look at all the young blokes I’ve given debuts too”. Falls on deaf ears when all of them bar Laurie have been in and out of the team all season. If I’m a youngster, I’m not going to the tigers because my development will continuously struggle because I can be in and out of the team after one game.

Jnr devlpmnt dont work like that
Someone mentioned hes given most of the rookies two games, not sure if
thats accurate or not...but if it is it sounds like a pre concieved plan
to blood a lot of promising junior

Weve also had Stef ...not just Laurie

And just because you debut doesnt automatically guarantee you a starting spot, hard work
and another off season is at play here as well as cap management

Anything worthwile is never easy, but i think a lot of players have your attitude these
days, that its easier and better elsewhere

I also like giving a young guy a taste of first grade and sending them back down to work on the things that they need improve with that knowledge and experience they gained from that time in the top grade.

That’s fine as long as they know what to work on. I can’t see any development at all in anyone. For example, You would think our hookers would be developing kicking games by now and being given the confidence to do these things also. It’s always left to Brooks because no one else does it. When you watch the storm you have backrowers , centres ,wingers hookers ,all of them doing it because it’s everyones job to do what ever is required. It’s always someone else’s job in our team, it’s a joke.

You are right outside of Stafano and Blore, but that could be just natural progression.

 

[tigertuff]

Clearly he’s feeling the pressure by trying to defend himself with “look at all the young blokes I’ve given debuts too”. Falls on deaf ears when all of them bar Laurie have been in and out of the team all season. If I’m a youngster, I’m not going to the tigers because my development will continuously struggle because I can be in and out of the team after one game.

Jnr devlpmnt dont work like that
Someone mentioned hes given most of the rookies two games, not sure if
thats accurate or not...but if it is it sounds like a pre concieved plan
to blood a lot of promising junior

Weve also had Stef ...not just Laurie

And just because you debut doesnt automatically guarantee you a starting spot, hard work
and another off season is at play here as well as cap management

Anything worthwile is never easy, but i think a lot of players have your attitude these
days, that its easier and better elsewhere

I also like giving a young guy a taste of first grade and sending them back down to work on the things that they need improve with that knowledge and experience they gained from that time in the top grade.

That’s fine as long as they know what to work on. I can’t see any development at all in anyone. For example, You would think our hookers would be developing kicking games by now and being given the confidence to do these things also. It’s always left to Brooks because no one else does it. When you watch the storm you have backrowers , centres ,wingers hookers ,all of them doing it because it’s everyones job to do what ever is required. It’s always someone else’s job in our team, it’s a joke.

You are right outside of Stafano and Blore, but that could be just natural progression.

Steph is coming on nicely but haven’t seen enough of Blore yet but definitely showing potential. That missed play the ball the other night was bad though which brings me back to the point of it’s always someone else’s job. He should have got to that when the game was on the line.

 

[cochise]

Clearly he’s feeling the pressure by trying to defend himself with “look at all the young blokes I’ve given debuts too”. Falls on deaf ears when all of them bar Laurie have been in and out of the team all season. If I’m a youngster, I’m not going to the tigers because my development will continuously struggle because I can be in and out of the team after one game.

Jnr devlpmnt dont work like that
Someone mentioned hes given most of the rookies two games, not sure if
thats accurate or not...but if it is it sounds like a pre concieved plan
to blood a lot of promising junior

Weve also had Stef ...not just Laurie

And just because you debut doesnt automatically guarantee you a starting spot, hard work
and another off season is at play here as well as cap management

Anything worthwile is never easy, but i think a lot of players have your attitude these
days, that its easier and better elsewhere

I also like giving a young guy a taste of first grade and sending them back down to work on the things that they need improve with that knowledge and experience they gained from that time in the top grade.

That’s fine as long as they know what to work on. I can’t see any development at all in anyone. For example, You would think our hookers would be developing kicking games by now and being given the confidence to do these things also. It’s always left to Brooks because no one else does it. When you watch the storm you have backrowers , centres ,wingers hookers ,all of them doing it because it’s everyones job to do what ever is required. It’s always someone else’s job in our team, it’s a joke.

You are right outside of Stafano and Blore, but that could be just natural progression.
Steph is coming on nicely but haven’t seen enough of Blore yet but definitely showing potential. That missed play the ball the other night was bad though which brings me back to the point of it’s always someone else’s job. He should have got to that when the game was on the line.

Yeah that was a mistake, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, Blore is about to have a breakout game.

 

[wet tiger coloured bird]

we need a 2nd hooker like the storm.

 

[Demps]

we need a 2nd hooker like the storm.

We have one.

 

[wet tiger coloured bird]

is there any west tigers in womens league. maybe i'll go supporting them for a while

 

[wet tiger coloured bird]

who's the 2nd hooker? mybye?

 

[Demps]

who's the 2nd hooker? mybye?

Jake Simpkin

 

[TYGA]

I’ve been trying to avoid this thread so not sure if it has already been pointed out just how unhappy the Tigers players look after scoring.

The hug each other high-five, genuine joy to score and be leading is absent. Go watch any reply over the last 6 weeks or so.

A group of people that don’t even enjoy scoring suggests something is MASSIVELY wrong with team identity, relationships and overall happiness.

I don’t remember a more unhappy Tigers squad.

Either, we have some relational splits in the playing group or the playing group is split from the coaching group.

Half the team are being shopped around

Hopefully thats true!

Problem is nobody wants them

Jettison the coach and I believe you will see a big improvement.

Starts from the top. Get Sheens in and he makes the call on recruitment people and coach. If he says Madge is the man then that’s how you run a club. If he feels people won’t sign because of Madge and Madge can’t get the players better then he gets sacked. Simple. We have lacked anyone with rugby league nous and experience of Sheens caliber forever.

Interesting hypothetical..What would be the thoughts on Sheens if he fully supports Maguire and he is trying to achieve..

Sheens has experienced the player power at Wests Tigers 1st hand..

I’d back him in personally. There has to be a plan out of this mess though. Players would have to be moved on also. It can’t stay the same.

 

[jirskyr]

Amid the worst losing season in the club’s history, Maguire is safe for now and will remain in charge for the remainder of the season.
The Wests Tigers have achieved just five wins in 2021 - their least amount of wins ever and currently two short of last season’s seven game win-record.

Who writes and publishes this crap?

I'm not arguing the sentiment of the article that it's a bad season, but Tigers have 6 wins and 5 round remaining. Even our terrible win rate gets another 1-2 wins, and against the opposition we are facing, absolutely achievable.

Unfortunately Tigers have finished with 7 wins 5 times in history, and one 8. It's a history of strong mediocrity. Because even the talk of "haven't made the finals in a decade" ignores the reality that we only made the finals one other time outside that small window, in all of 22 seasons.

Poor journalism to try and sensationalise a story that is not grounded in any fact: that Madge's career is over if no improvement within next 5 matches.

I personally reckon the claim is rubbish, I reckon if you have the inclination to sack Madge then you do it now, because we've seen enough to know this is a bad year and Madge's worst one so far. I very much doubt Tigers are going to muster anything substantial to rally the anti-Madge feelings in the space of 5 weeks.

 

[jirskyr]

I'm really interested in a general swell I am seeing lately: that Tim Sheens will or can help right the ship, however that happens to be - help Madge, or review the football department, or fix recruitment.

Tim Sheens made the finals 3 times in 10 years. Saying he's the Tigers most successful coach is like saying I'm by far the fastest person in my household, which consists of my wife and 3 little kids.

I like Tim Sheens but his tenure was defined by teams which could always score points, but lacked grit to perform in tough matches, hold their nerve in close matches, or defend consistently for any length of time. Absolute cowboys with the football and heart-attack material for fans, dropping in and out of matches.

I think some people are in for a rude shock, or they are just looking desperately for some long-shot hope.

 

[Alltheway]

I’ve been trying to avoid this thread so not sure if it has already been pointed out just how unhappy the Tigers players look after scoring.

The hug each other high-five, genuine joy to score and be leading is absent. Go watch any reply over the last 6 weeks or so.

A group of people that don’t even enjoy scoring suggests something is MASSIVELY wrong with team identity, relationships and overall happiness.

I don’t remember a more unhappy Tigers squad.

Either, we have some relational splits in the playing group or the playing group is split from the coaching group.

Some of the players that have been there for a while think their better than the rest....unfortunately their form shows they are not...Noffa ,Brooks come to mind,,,,BENJI syndrome I would say...

Agree, Nofa just continues to run sideways, it's ridiculous. Surely it can't continue in FG?

I also thought last game against Warriors, the both halves let us down badly, poor and panicked decisions by them, led to our doom. They have been arguably our best all season, but Madge must have been gutted after both there performances.

TBH, I am shattered and disillusioned at the teams inept efforts in the important games this year, to blame the club and coaching staff for it, just doesn't feel right.

AD and LL couldn't work out a simple right to left side and almost fell over each other trying to miss the ball carrier. Madge didn't coach that. He doesn't tell LL that if he runs hard with the football he doesn't have to tackle his opposite when they have the ball. Brooks and AD can't play together. It's moments in games that are killing us.
Maybe Hastings is the type we need to organise a proper attack. Maybe Blore and Tualagi, when they are fit and ready, can defend an edge. Smith Shields appears to be very good defensively, he could make a massive difference. When Simpkin is another year older and wiser maybe we'll have a very good two hooker rotation.
I know it's been a very frustrating season but I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. I'd like to see Madge with the following ( entireley possible ) team, then I'll judge him:
Laurie
Gildart
HSS
AD
Senior
Hastings
Brooks,
Joffa
Blore
Tuilagi
Stef
Liddle
Tamou

Musgrove
Twal
Luki
Simpkin
Simpkins
LL
Garner
AJ
TT
Seyfarth

Problem is it is sludge Maguire fault, LL is not an 80 minute player! Never has been and probably never will be....
He’s an impact player that’s really best coming on after 20 or so minutes, he can defend the problem is the same as liddle’s. As they tire in doing lots of defence they get sloppy and make errors and therefore bad choices.
There in tails the issue I have with Madge he tries to make players what he wants them to be not what they are, and play to their strengthsa
Liddle, LL Gardner non of these guys are 80 minutes players yet Madge try’s to make them do so, then we leak points. His management of the interchange is below poor, down rite crap. I believe it is one of the main reasons we are so doing so rubbish, that and his boring and repetitive quotes and motivational crap that gets old quick!
It’s simple Blore and Gardner start and after 25 or so LL replaces BLORE then at 50-60 minutes BLORE replaces Gardner! Simple as huger attitude for defence by all the second row which is badly needed.
Yet Maguire wants them to be 80 minute players, which there just not.
My other issue with his lack of ability to think on the run. In many games when we are getting pumped early in a game he just goes through the same process with his interchange plan and times instead of quickly doing something like injecting a few reserves on early ti try to seem the flow, but nope same old timings for bench rotation. #timetogo!

 

[Goanna57]

I'm really interested in a general swell I am seeing lately: that Tim Sheens will or can help right the ship, however that happens to be - help Madge, or review the football department, or fix recruitment.

Tim Sheens made the finals 3 times in 10 years. Saying he's the Tigers most successful coach is like saying I'm by far the fastest person in my household, which consists of my wife and 3 little kids.

I like Tim Sheens but his tenure was defined by teams which could always score points, but lacked grit to perform in tough matches, hold their nerve in close matches, or defend consistently for any length of time. Absolute cowboys with the football and heart-attack material for fans, dropping in and out of matches.

I think some people are in for a rude shock, or they are just looking desperately for some long-shot hope.

We need hope even if it’s a long-shot because we have no hope with Maguire in charge

 

[PJ_]

is there any west tigers in womens league. maybe i'll go supporting them for a while

Yeah. They go all right too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nrl.com/news/2021/04/22/the-broader-game-wests-tigers-outline-future-grand-plans-for-nrlw/amp/

 

[clontarfkid]

Give Madge another full year. If we show no signs of improvement by the end of next season, sack him.

Not sure whether anyone has the appetite for another year of this.....no new players of any significance =nothing will change.
Sheens is no Bellamy as we discovered ourselves eventually

I think plenty support Madge

The numbers are decreasing with each game I’d imagine.

Friday nite against Warriors was my turning point...have been increasingly concerned over the rapidly deteriorating defence over the past 3 years,which itself is problematic..any decent team puts 40+ on us in a heartbeat....
.....but the pedestrian and predictable attack against a depleted and homesick Warriors.plus the totally robotic kicking game,brought it home to me we either have no coach or the coach has got the us tighly briefed that dont have any spontenaeity or independence to play heads up footy
The only future I can see is straight to the spoon unless things end of THIS YEAR
We need a new coaching direction,executed by some new and better players which we cant currently attract

 

[TigerWest]

I’ve been trying to avoid this thread so not sure if it has already been pointed out just how unhappy the Tigers players look after scoring.

The hug each other high-five, genuine joy to score and be leading is absent. Go watch any reply over the last 6 weeks or so.

A group of people that don’t even enjoy scoring suggests something is MASSIVELY wrong with team identity, relationships and overall happiness.

I don’t remember a more unhappy Tigers squad.

Either, we have some relational splits in the playing group or the playing group is split from the coaching group.

Half the team are being shopped around

Hopefully thats true!

Problem is nobody wants them

Jettison the coach and I believe you will see a big improvement.

Starts from the top. Get Sheens in and he makes the call on recruitment people and coach. If he says Madge is the man then that’s how you run a club. If he feels people won’t sign because of Madge and Madge can’t get the players better then he gets sacked. Simple. We have lacked anyone with rugby league nous and experience of Sheens caliber forever.

Interesting hypothetical..What would be the thoughts on Sheens if he fully supports Maguire and he is trying to achieve..

Sheens has experienced the player power at Wests Tigers 1st hand..

I’d back him in personally. There has to be a plan out of this mess though. Players would have to be moved on also. It can’t stay the same.

Aren't we already doing this, hasn't it been happening for the last few years. It takes time to change due to contracts and players performing below expectation.
It will change, just don't know when.

 

[jag]

Madge may be aware Liddle or young Jake both cannot play for 80min players at this stage of their careers but our roster doesn’t allow us to play both and cover an injury to backs. Storm and Raiders have the luxury of their hookers staying on field playing rest of game in the ruck at lock having a back as bench player but Liddle needs to go off field for a break. Last season we had the luxury of Harry Grant playing 80mins staying at lock when Liddle came on playing 2 hookers and a back on the bench to cover injury So for Madge to accommodate our 2 hookers Liddle and young Jake our lock then must be a ball playing athletic type which we don’t have not traditional prop playing lock which that can cover an injury in the backs like Laurie.
Next season if Hastings is our lock we can accommodate 2 hookers easily and have a far better kicking game especially he can slot in from dummy half to kick and cover injury to backs. I am hoping he can solve some of our teams issues. If he gets injured during game a prop can slot in for him
Have 2 props, hooker plus second rower Lucy on the bench for far greater impact which is what is required with the new rules.
We get destroyed by the good teams 10mins either side of halftime consistently.
With this seasons roster we have far too many props light on in back rowers and don’t have a ball playing lock. We don’t have a five eight with strong defence and a kicking game plus our centres are extremely poor using 8 different players there so far this season.
So whoever is coach next season our recruitment team must get their act together focusing on these positions to strengthen the team.

 

[jrtiger]

that performance on Friday night was so characteristically Wests Tigers that I don't believe that it's a Madge issue, it's a deep-rooted issue that has been embedded within the foundations of this club for decades. not willing to write him off after a performance that has occurred in the past under the watch of Sheens, Potter, Taylor, Cleary and now Madge. Madge will survive a review imo.