Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[hobbo1]

@pawsandclaws1
R U OK

 

[momo_amp_medo]

I can live with that.

They need to get the assistants right and they need to start shopping Luke Brooks immediately.

We are actually really short in the halves already

Agreed. Unless the club can be guaranteed a better option at 7 in return Brooks highly unlikely to get moved on now, especially with AD our for a bit.

Hastings?

And 5/8th?

We have an off season to sort that out.

No we don't, we need another backup half already.

Peaches!

 

[JD Tiger]

I understand there is a lot at play in this decision but I reckon the Board needs to show some backbone in backing in Madge. He has been all about the future, fixing the player contract mess & setting us for long-term success. Fans & media get so fixated on the 'now' but should be looking at where we are heading.

1) Look at our Jersey Flegg result this season (and the potential Panthers-like era we could have if we keep these mates together)
2) Look at our recent junior recruitment (Simpkin, Saukurus, Fautimaus etc)
3) Look at our junior stars coming through (Solomone Saukuru, Brandon Tumeth, Justin Matamua to name a few)
4) Look at our good buys in recent seasons (Utoikamanu, Blore, Doeuhi, Laurie, Maumolo, Tuilagi, Simpkins)

To me our team has only a few key parts of the puzzle to assemble (2-3 players with leadership, experience, intensity & aggression in forward pack & halves; some x-factor with strong defence in the backline; and some good assistant coaching support for Madge). We have Sheens, Hastings, Gildart coming in which can all be positives.

Don't get sucked in by the media's focus on headlines & creating disunity.

We need to stay true & let Madge see out his contract. Otherwise the vicious circle starts again!

Keeping Madge for 2 more years will destroy the club to the point of no return. We need someone who can attract players, coach well or preferably both. His last 5 seasons have proven he can't coach in the modern game.

I think the concept of "the modern game" is a myth and is entirely overused.

How do we define "the modern game"? 2021 only? The past 2 years? The past 3 years? The predicted forthcoming season?

Surely we can argue, given the ARLC's recent affinity for fiddling with the rules, there has scarcely been any sustained period of established rugby league paradigm. It always flips and flops between defence-focused, attack-focused, wrestle-focus, refs heavy touch , refs light touch etc. Part of the beauty of the game is the unpredictable nature of play and which styles dominate in a given season. Part of the frustration of the game is that the controlling body feel compelled to tweak rules to improve the TV spectacle.

However in contrast the the unpredictable football styles, the dominating teams have become all-too predictable - a core 4 or 5 teams for at least a period of 3 to 4 years, with some teams rarely falling out of the top echelon and, by corollary, some teams rarely making it into the top echelon.

I think this is another argument against the concept of "the modern game": if certain clubs are able to maintain a stranglehold on the competition, it argues that the current paradigm / "modern game" is a less relevant predictor than the established flexibility and mental/physical domination of the best sides and coaches.

In other words, the best rosters win regardless of prevailing conditions, because they adapt to those conditions.

And none of this is even considering the long-term impact of COVID, including player bubbles, player mental health, relocations, family separations and lack of lower grade play etc.

There's certainly no argument to support an idea that a younger or newer coach is more "in tune" with the modern game - the most successful coaches (and the ones currently left in season 2021) are also the 3 oldest, barring Ivan Cleary.

There's also an assumption, within the idea of "modern game", that it is predictable, i.e. that the rules and rule interpretations will not change and that most sides will handle those conditions in a similar manner to the previous seasons. Clearly this wildly speculative and the previous seasons have in fact shown great variability in the way the game is played and policed.

Aside, of course, from the fundamentals - that the fastest, strongest, toughest and most skilful sides tend to be the best, regardless of variations in what comprises "the modern game".

So ultimately I think the argument of "a modern game" against a coach, or even for a coach, is misguided. Specific to Madge, I think the history of the Wests Tigers and the known abilities of the current roster are far more predictive than the concept of whether or not Michael Maguire knows and can coach to the prevailing paradigm. Aren't people always telling me that it's a simple game and you just need to bash the opposition?

Before he died, The Don was asked if he would score as many runs in "the modern game". His answer went something along the lines of '''No, I wouldn't. Back then the pitches were flatter, the outfields were quicker and the bowlers didnt watch videos of you. But I would still score more runs than the next bloke." Winners gonna win. Losers gonna lose.

I dont think this is a real quote for many reasons.

Firstly the pitches werent flatter, they played on unprotected pitches that were much harder to bat on than the current roads, the outfields werent faster.

The quote I have read attributed to him went along the lines of, "these days they have video analysis, professional training, but of course I m 80 years old"

Apologies 5150, I down voted you on this one, and I'll tell you why.

Fair enough you're giving an opinion, but what are you saying? That you don't think the original quote was real? It was included with the proviso that the quote went something like this, admitting that it isn't word for word. I don't know what your basis is for the quote to be determined as 'real', but the gist was the same from what I could see. Whether the pitches were flat or outfield fast, it doesn't matter, the message was that different factors in a different time would make a different situation. The specifics really didn't matter to that in this context.

Yeah, yeah fair enough. All fair comments. I totally understand that what you were say was the "gist" of what he was saying and as you correctly point out, not that different to my version of the quote.

100% not having a crack at you or questioning your integrity at all. I just knew he couldnt have said that as it was typed because those two things are the opposite of the case and The Don would have known that. I didnt mean to detract from the meaning of the quote the way you phrased it.

Another part of why I jumped in is because as I remember the quote (there was quite likely more than one) it was very clever the way Don phrased it because his answer was well designed to set up all the differences in the modern game and then drop the "of course Im 80years old"

I don't see the value in your commenting that the paraphrased quote provided wasn't real, when what you provided as the real one had the same general gist.

Is it being argumentative, a stickler for the absolute truth, or did I miss something?

Definitely not the first, hopefully not the second, maybe something else. Didnt mean to detract from your post.

Hey mate, I was being very harsh also in downvoting you buddy.
I dont have the time to read all posts in this forum, but there are some names I see who I generally always try to read as I usually find those posts quite interesting. You're in that category mate, and I thank you.

 

[cochise]

I can live with that.

They need to get the assistants right and they need to start shopping Luke Brooks immediately.

We are actually really short in the halves already

Agreed. Unless the club can be guaranteed a better option at 7 in return Brooks highly unlikely to get moved on now, especially with AD our for a bit.

Hastings?

And 5/8th?

We have an off season to sort that out.

No we don't, we need another backup half already.

Peaches!

I don't want to go into the season with a Hastings/ Peachey halves pairing.

 

[Rugba]

I have it on good authority once the board was made aware that there was almost 9k posts on the madge mega thread they could not in good conscience sack him and miss out on the 10k post count

 

[Guest]

I don't really get the celebration or the sorrow.
As stated a couple of weeks ago Sheens will be the head honcho supervising the figurehead coach Maguire.
Nothing's changed.
Trust in head coach Sheens.
Congratulations to assistant coach Maguire for swallowing his pride and accepting his demotion.

 

[momo_amp_medo]

I can live with that.

They need to get the assistants right and they need to start shopping Luke Brooks immediately.

We are actually really short in the halves already

Agreed. Unless the club can be guaranteed a better option at 7 in return Brooks highly unlikely to get moved on now, especially with AD our for a bit.

Hastings?

And 5/8th?

We have an off season to sort that out.

No we don't, we need another backup half already.

Peaches!

I don't want to go into the season with a Hastings/ Peachey halves pairing.

Couldn’t think of anyone else that would provide real utility value for once big D gets over his ACL.

 

[twentyforty]

Great news, Board shows some backbone! Great that the changes will include giving Madge the assistant coaching support he needs. We're in it for the long term not the short term.

And once again the journos get it wrong!


It is good news, but let’s not get too enthusiastic about slapping any board members on the back. And for the journos part they played in the fiasco? Well, they were just passing on what someone in the club told them. Which means we still have a big problem.
Any ideas who that may be? Who is close to Chamass?

Yeh …. That’s indeed is going to be a real challenge.
I predict couple of admin changes are on the horizon.
And it will be interesting how Madge - Sheens - Hartigan tag team works out.
Anyway it’s good that it’s all over and we can turn our attention to the issues of revising the coaching support staff, the roster and recruitment.

What makes you think it’s all over?

 

[PJ_]

Cue the fluff articles.

 

[cochise]

I can live with that.

They need to get the assistants right and they need to start shopping Luke Brooks immediately.

We are actually really short in the halves already

Agreed. Unless the club can be guaranteed a better option at 7 in return Brooks highly unlikely to get moved on now, especially with AD our for a bit.

Hastings?

And 5/8th?

We have an off season to sort that out.

No we don't, we need another backup half already.

Peaches!

I don't want to go into the season with a Hastings/ Peachey halves pairing.

Couldn’t think of anyone else that would provide real utility value for once big D gets over his ACL.

AD really needed the off season to work on his game.

 

[PJ_]

Did they put any indications on him?
What happens if we lose the first few rounds? No point keeping him now if they're going to change their mind and sack him during the season.

 

[cktiger]

Hopefully he can get rid of some duds now and grab a few seasoned first graders to actually help the young blokes.
We’ll all be cheering when we crack the 8, or better, next year.

I feel the only blokes we will sign will be average first graders on big coin.

Hopefully we'll all get a surprise.
We've got plenty of money.... and will hopefully flick a few more unwanted players now.

 

[JD Tiger]

I have it on good authority once the board was made aware that there was almost 9k posts on the madge mega thread they could not in good conscience sack him and miss out on the 10k post count

Literally lolled at that one, cheers.

 

[JD Tiger]

Did they put any indications on him?
What happens if we lose the first few rounds? No point keeping him now if they're going to change their mind and sack him during the season.

Yeah fingers crossed that this means Madge is coach for the whole season of 2022 at least. Sacking a coach early next year would just be another example (arguably) of where our club falls short.

 

[momo_amp_medo]

BreakingSportNRLNRL 2021
Inside story: Why Maguire was spared the axe at the Wests Tigers
By Michael Chammas and Adrian Proszenko
Updated September 21, 2021 — 3.02pmf

Michael Maguire fronted the club’s football committee on Monday facing an uphill battle to keep his job.

A board meeting had already been set up for 4pm to determine his future, with indications from within the club suggesting Maguire was a dead man walking.

In the meeting, Maguire agreed to a range of provisions around the structure and operation of the football department in 2022, including the implementation of Tim Sheens in a coaching director role.

One of the other concerns that was raised, which was raised in the findings of the internal review, was a separation between the club and the football department.

Maguire was told there would need to be greater engagement between the club and football department, but also was made aware of the club’s desire to have a greater say in the people he surrounds himself with.

At the end of the meeting, the element of the board that wanted Maguire to continue were reluctant to meet for the scheduled board meeting. It was subsequently cancelled, giving the club the night to think about the future of the club.

Privately it believed that even if it decided to move on, the man they wanted as a replacement - Penrith assistant Cameron Ciraldo - was unlikely to take the job at such late notice given his commitment to the Panthers and their quest for a premiership.

This morning the football committee reconvened. The decision, which had swayed multiple times since the club’s final round humiliation at the hands of Canterbury, had to be made.

Ultimately it was decided that it was in the best interest of the club to back Maguire, at least for another year, despite obvious concerns from people in positions of power to start fresh.

“Yesterday there was a football committee meeting and the concerns that were raised by the football review were brought to Michael’s attention,” chairman Lee Hagipantelis told the Herald on Tuesday afternoon.

Michael responded to them in a genuine and sincere manner, and the football committee was very impressed. There’s no questioning of Michael’s passion, commitment and dedication to the club. It was simply a process we had to go through. The board meeting that was convened yesterday was only convened if required.

“It was determined it was not required, and we wished to deliberate further, which we did this morning. The determination was was made to affirm Michael’s employment. We immediately relayed the news to Michael who was humbled by the show of faith in him by the club.”

Maguire has for now been spared the axe, with the coach to remain in charge of the Wests Tigers after surviving the club’s controversial review.

Maguire is under contract for the next two seasons, but there was speculation he was to be sacked for the club’s underwhelming 13th-placed finish. However, the club has confirmed he will remain in charge of the joint-venture outfit.

While we always understood this review and process would take time, it was the responsibility of the football committee to ensure all information was considered to make the right decisions for the club moving forward,” Tigers CEO Justin Pascoe said in a statement.

“Michael has been with the club over arguably its most challenging time with the COVID-19 pandemic, has overseen significant change both on and off the field throughout his tenure and, on behalf of all at Wests Tigers, I’d like to thank him for his effort so far.

“We are firmly committed to building a high performing club. With our strong financial position, increased investment and recent success of our pathways teams, the new Centre of Excellence and continued work on a South West academy, the arrival of Tim Sheens and his experience in NRL systems, this club is posed to reap the rewards of several years of hard work.

“We believe that through Michael’s vast experience and by continuing to challenge the way we operate, we will continue drive the high standards and behaviours needed to ensure we achieve our goals as a club.”

 

[Swordy]

On the phone shortly to cancel 12 premium membership .. the club is a failure and run by self serving individuals good luck with all of that ..3 seasons of failure how much FAILURE does it take !

I'll be on the phone shortly to upgrade to premium, so I guess you cant keep everyone happy

Good for you ? we had great seats so get in early and could be a winner for you !

Just dont do anything you will regret in 6 months mate.

 

[coivtny]

Although the retention of Maguire was the decision I was looking for, I can totally understand the anger and frustration from supporters who were looking for change. The only consistency forum members have is the genuine desire to see the team do compete at the highest level, we just don't agree on how to achieve it.
But, with Madge retained there is still quite a bit of unfinished business the Board should address. First, I assume Madge's assistants will be gone. We need a process to acquire the very best assistants available, a process that doesn't care whether or not these assistants might be a future threat to Maguire.
Second, I believe Pascoe has to go. We need a quality CEO. Pascoe has had too many failures for me.
Third, get rid of Brooks plus any player who is found to have not given their all in the latter part of the season.
Fourth, the Board should explain how recruitment is going to change so that we actually sign players who we want to sign.
There's a lot more to do before we are any hope of improving this club.

 

[Chicken_Faced_Killa]

It is obvious that the club backflipped.

Not that the gossip major media outlets published was wrong

Why is that obvious?

We’ve heard 2 things from the club:
- they were undertaking a review
- Madge is staying on as coach

From the media we’ve had 4 or 5 articles a day and talking heads putting their opinion in. All of which was speculation.

Are sarcasm detectors on special ebay Tuesday?

Mine needs repairing but the shops closed due to lockdown

 

[hugh1954]

Now players like dumb luke, noffa must be put on notice that their positions are on the line

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Surely there’s a prodigy applying his trade in a lower grade , looking for a start , or a foot in the door . Why do we always have to resort back to the same old. We don’t need someone to manage the media, corporates , egos , roster management etc. we need some guys which more cutting edge X and O .
I don’t care if the guy , is the assistant coach of the New York Turnpikers . If he’s a smart cookie , and can add to a paradigm shift within the club , then that has to be where we look.

The issue is the status quo. It only helps 3 teams . Everyone else is left to fight over the scraps . This has to be how we think , or we should just pack up and move to Perth .
We are never going to succeed playing by other peoples rules . Maybe with sheens back , we can find he tigers true identity .
I really wish , sheens could have taken this exact role he’s taking now , all those years ago.