Memo to Ivan Cleary

[goldcoast_tiger]

I'm just glad we won't have to deal with the father coach, son high profile player combination and all the drama that would create.

From the moment I heard about this desire for Cleary to coach his son I knew it would cause problems, we don't need the drama that comes with it, I'm happy for Penrith to have that.

What annoys me is this continual trend of coaches arriving with a "plan" recruiting mediocre players then leaving their mess behind for the next coach for the cycle to continue.

Josh Stuart when interviewed on tv last night was far from convinced a father coaching his son could work or indeed should happen. I'd suggest there is a lot of pressure on IC right now.

Who’s Josh Stuart??

 

[coivtny]

Go way back to the beginning when Marina Go became involved. I believe one of her issues concerned contract negotiations with Cleary prior to him getting aboard (the bus). If I recall, Marina Go stated that coaching his son was not part of the agreement signed by IC. To me, that was a very pointed remark as the main conclusion to be drawn from it was that he wanted to do it sooner rather than later. Also, the threat of a legal solution issued by Pascoe to me was also directed at IC as well as the Panthers.

Anyone can direct legal threats as much as they want,
It means nothing without evidence that something has happened
There is NO evidence that Anyone caused anyone else to break a contract,

Ivan signed with Penrith for a period that was AFTER he was finished here, end of story as far as legal threats go,
Marina was throwing as much bluff as she could, she had to say something

It's an interesting situation. You could argue successfully that Cleary is conflicted now that he has signed for Penrith from 2021\. For example if a top player becomes available for 2020 and Ivan knows both WT and Penrith are interested in a 4 year deal, surely you couldn't rely on Ivan to push WT's case in front of Penrith. I guess that can be resolved by taking recruitment responsibilities away from him but I don't see that as a good option. But it's almost impossible to argue that Penrith have crossed the legal line. I just think Ivan's position at WT is now untenable and we have to cut him loose without leaving ourselves liable to a payout.

 

[Pawsandclaws]

Go way back to the beginning when Marina Go became involved. I believe one of her issues concerned contract negotiations with Cleary prior to him getting aboard (the bus). If I recall, Marina Go stated that coaching his son was not part of the agreement signed by IC. To me, that was a very pointed remark as the main conclusion to be drawn from it was that he wanted to do it sooner rather than later. Also, the threat of a legal solution issued by Pascoe to me was also directed at IC as well as the Panthers.

Anyone can direct legal threats as much as they want,
It means nothing without evidence that something has happened
There is NO evidence that Anyone caused anyone else to break a contract,

Ivan signed with Penrith for a period that was AFTER he was finished here, end of story as far as legal threats go,
Marina was throwing as much bluff as she could, she had to say something

Well GC, there are some pretty strong words from Pascoe in the article attached for something which according to you did not happen. Noting that it would be interesting to have Pascoe publicly release what was discussed.

Also, if the matters discussed related to his new contract from 2021, why was the subject of a release (presumably from his existing contract) mentioned by Pascoe? Seems to me like there has been one hell of a lot of backpedalling from the mob at Emu Plains.

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/league/news/wests-tigers-boss-justin-pascoe-says-ivan-cleary-wont-be-granted-a-release-to-join-the-penrith-panthers/oxsszdr90bbh1blroib8kueps

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Go way back to the beginning when Marina Go became involved. I believe one of her issues concerned contract negotiations with Cleary prior to him getting aboard (the bus). If I recall, Marina Go stated that coaching his son was not part of the agreement signed by IC. To me, that was a very pointed remark as the main conclusion to be drawn from it was that he wanted to do it sooner rather than later. Also, the threat of a legal solution issued by Pascoe to me was also directed at IC as well as the Panthers.

Anyone can direct legal threats as much as they want,
It means nothing without evidence that something has happened
There is NO evidence that Anyone caused anyone else to break a contract,

Ivan signed with Penrith for a period that was AFTER he was finished here, end of story as far as legal threats go,
Marina was throwing as much bluff as she could, she had to say something

Well GC, there are some pretty strong words from Pascoe in the article attached for something which according to you did not happen. Noting that it would be interesting to have Pascoe publicly release what was discussed.

Also, if the matters discussed related to his new contract from 2021, why was the subject of a release (presumably from his existing contract) mentioned by Pascoe? Seems to me like there has been one hell of a lot of backpedalling from the mob at Emu Plains.

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/league/news/wests-tigers-boss-justin-pascoe-says-ivan-cleary-wont-be-granted-a-release-to-join-the-penrith-panthers/oxsszdr90bbh1blroib8kueps

As I said , no accusations of breaking any contract
Panthers were interested in signin him, nothing , about when, he’s entitled to ask for a release, nothing there to attract a contract breach charge.
I didn’t say nothing didn’t happen, but we have to have concrete evidence of anyone trying to get Ivan to break his contract , we’ve got nothing,
You might say that we’ve done a bit of backpedaling as well and any talk of legal actioned has died out,
All bluff or it would be happening.

 

[Tarl]

Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]

You’ve obviously never held a job with any level of importance…
I can assure you in the industry I’m in - if you declare at any point, that you are to be employed by a competing firm... you’re generally escorted off the premises, regardless of how much notice you give

You obviously keep fit by jumping to conclusions. No need for personal assertions that you know nothing about. All I'm saying is he has the right to look at other modes of employment (as do you). I guess we also have the right to be upset by that.

 

[happy_tiger]

If you blame Gus for all this you feel far better

And then we can run him down at the Carringbah fish n chips shop that someone else mentioned

#saveclearyhanggus

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]

You’ve obviously never held a job with any level of importance…
I can assure you in the industry I’m in - if you declare at any point, that you are to be employed by a competing firm... you’re generally escorted off the premises, regardless of how much notice you give

You obviously keep fit by jumping to conclusions. No need for personal assertions that you know nothing about. All I'm saying is he has the right to look at other modes of employment (as do you). I guess we also have the right to be upset by that.

Maybe then you should get a better job , but then again, if they’d throw you out that easy, of course you’d have to be pretty stupid to tell them wouldn’t you,
As for my poor little insignificant job, I’m Self employed and have been since I finished my apprenticeship,over 50 yrs ago , and have been solely responsible for makeing my business not only survive but to be sucessful,
Despite thati, I’d be ever so thankful if you could give me some lessons on howto be Important to my business, as I’m desperate to gain from your obviously deep well of self importance 😛ray:

 

[Pawsandclaws]

Go way back to the beginning when Marina Go became involved. I believe one of her issues concerned contract negotiations with Cleary prior to him getting aboard (the bus). If I recall, Marina Go stated that coaching his son was not part of the agreement signed by IC. To me, that was a very pointed remark as the main conclusion to be drawn from it was that he wanted to do it sooner rather than later. Also, the threat of a legal solution issued by Pascoe to me was also directed at IC as well as the Panthers.

Anyone can direct legal threats as much as they want,
It means nothing without evidence that something has happened
There is NO evidence that Anyone caused anyone else to break a contract,

Ivan signed with Penrith for a period that was AFTER he was finished here, end of story as far as legal threats go,
Marina was throwing as much bluff as she could, she had to say something

Well GC, there are some pretty strong words from Pascoe in the article attached for something which according to you did not happen. Noting that it would be interesting to have Pascoe publicly release what was discussed.

Also, if the matters discussed related to his new contract from 2021, why was the subject of a release (presumably from his existing contract) mentioned by Pascoe? Seems to me like there has been one hell of a lot of backpedalling from the mob at Emu Plains.

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/league/news/wests-tigers-boss-justin-pascoe-says-ivan-cleary-wont-be-granted-a-release-to-join-the-penrith-panthers/oxsszdr90bbh1blroib8kueps

As I said , no accusations of breaking any contract
Panthers were interested in signin him, nothing , about when, he’s entitled to ask for a release, nothing there to attract a contract breach charge.
I didn’t say nothing didn’t happen, but we have to have concrete evidence of anyone trying to get Ivan to break his contract , we’ve got nothing,
You might say that we’ve done a bit of backpedaling as well and any talk of legal actioned has died out,
All bluff or it would be happening.

I've stated all along the legal remedy option in my view was not only directed at the Panthers but at IC himself. I also believe Marina Go's quite pointed remark about what was discussed prior to IC signing the contract with the Club (that coaching his son was not disscussed or agreed upon) is a clear indication IC wanted to exit the WTs early to do just that. We know also a rep. of the Panthers hinted that it was IC himself who suggested an early exit from WTs. My view again is the Emu Plains debacle believed WTs would simply roll over because we are considered insignificant and the next two years apparently is their premiership window. I can't see the latter as I believe many of their players are overrated.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

It isn’t illegal to ask for a release if that’s what you’re talking about,if
When or if we had any legal way of sorting this out. It would’ve began before getting to this stage as the longer it drags on the worse it is,
Still nothing concrete , so no legal action possible or probable

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

It isn’t illegal to ask for a release if that’s what you’re talking about,if
When or if we had any legal way of sorting this out. It would’ve began before getting to this stage as the longer it drags on the worse it is,
Still nothing concrete , so no legal action possible or probable

And if Penrith players are over rated , could we please take a few of them off their hands

 

[wt01]

Congratulations Our Dearest Ivan

U have proven yourself to be a deadset w**ker

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Congratulations Our Dearest Ivan

U have proven yourself to be a deadset w**ker

Might want to change your avatar old son.

 

[Cairnstigers]

Ivan

Please move closer to the screen to read

 

[WT2K]

Ivan

Please move closer to the screen to read
\
\
giphy-1.gif

:laughing:

 

[colmcd]

I think we need to pick a cold one and calm down.

There is WAY too much hype around Nathan Cleary, Ivan Cleary and this whole mess.

What does not scare me is loosing Ivan. He has done a goodish job with the team, but it is goodish. He was no supercoach. He has good relationships with the players and steadied our boat. If he leaves, wow we loose a less mediocre coach.

What scares me. Ivan could leave us, Wayne Bennett could go Gold Coast or retire. That would leave us between Michael McGuire or Des Haslier. Either of these guys would be good. So not that scared.

I am worried that Packer, Mats may take it badly. A rocket under their belly would be a good thing. It's also a lot of coaching changes in a short period of time and that is going to shake the tigers institution.

We get Wayne Bennett, I see no problem. We get Des, Reynolds will stare at him a bit then they will become besties and the team may pull through. ….

We get Neil Henry I will be screaming till midnight!

 

[gallagher]

I think we need to pick a cold one and calm down.

There is WAY too much hype around Nathan Cleary, Ivan Cleary and this whole mess.

What does not scare me is loosing Ivan. He has done a goodish job with the team, but it is goodish. He was no supercoach. He has good relationships with the players and steadied our boat. If he leaves, wow we loose a less mediocre coach.

What scares me. Ivan could leave us, Wayne Bennett could go Gold Coast or retire. That would leave us between Michael McGuire or Des Haslier. Either of these guys would be good. So not that scared.

I am worried that Packer, Mats may take it badly. A rocket under their belly would be a good thing. It's also a lot of coaching changes in a short period of time and that is going to shake the tigers institution.

We get Wayne Bennett, I see no problem. We get Des, Reynolds will stare at him a bit then they will become besties and the team may pull through. ….

We get Neil Henry I will be screaming till midnight!

What scares me is that we may get none of those coaches you mentioned. Do good coaches regard us as career killers?
Barrett, Walker brothers , Arthur and the like scare me.

 

[Lauren]

Can’t take credit for this one(stolen from Twitter)but it applies to my exact feelings right now.

 

[colmcd]

I think we need to pick a cold one and calm down.

There is WAY too much hype around Nathan Cleary, Ivan Cleary and this whole mess.

What does not scare me is loosing Ivan. He has done a goodish job with the team, but it is goodish. He was no supercoach. He has good relationships with the players and steadied our boat. If he leaves, wow we loose a less mediocre coach.

What scares me. Ivan could leave us, Wayne Bennett could go Gold Coast or retire. That would leave us between Michael McGuire or Des Haslier. Either of these guys would be good. So not that scared.

I am worried that Packer, Mats may take it badly. A rocket under their belly would be a good thing. It's also a lot of coaching changes in a short period of time and that is going to shake the tigers institution.

We get Wayne Bennett, I see no problem. We get Des, Reynolds will stare at him a bit then they will become besties and the team may pull through. ….

We get Neil Henry I will be screaming till midnight!

What scares me is that we may get none of those coaches you mentioned. Do good coaches regard us as career killers?
Barrett, Walker brothers , Arthur and the like scare me.

Yea, Barrett would probably be worse then Henry. At least though he could pull people from Manly.
Brad Arthur though I would rate higher then that. No idea how he isn't in the looney bin with everything that happened in Parramatta!
I know that the Furners are around as well. Hey lets have Sheens, Furners, Ricky all fight it out in Canberra for the job (and let the raiders hire whatever is left).

 

[851]

Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]

You’ve obviously never held a job with any level of importance…
I can assure you in the industry I’m in - if you declare at any point, that you are to be employed by a competing firm... you’re generally escorted off the premises, regardless of how much notice you give

That is the real world that you describe, if I leave my job I can't work for a competitor for 12 months, so you are bang on, and Cleary has gone past the workable situation now to untenable

 

[The_Patriot]

Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]

You’ve obviously never held a job with any level of importance…
I can assure you in the industry I’m in - if you declare at any point, that you are to be employed by a competing firm... you’re generally escorted off the premises, regardless of how much notice you give

OMG Please post more.

This forum could really benefit from this type of reality based posting.

One of the best and most concise posts ive read on the whole debate.