Moltzen Staying Or Going

[Tiger_Watto]

I think a BIG finger should be pointed at Tauber and his disregard for following the proper channels… Player Managers cause far to many off-field dramas in the NRL and all it is doing is making us look stupid.

John O'Niell just sits back and laughs at the NRL on a daily basis!!!

 

[hybrid_tiger]

IMO he is no fullback or halfback. He is a running five-eighth, a good one (not great) who would work well next to a controlling, creative halfback.

We already have the best five-eighth in the business and don't have a dominating halfback so I've never thought Moltzen was the right fit for us.

He was gloried as a halfback after half a dozen average games in where he got most of the credit for the team playing well. At fullback, he played well again for about six odd games and before that he was a complete liability.

I hope I am proven wrong but I thought it was the right call to let him go. Maybe he will develop into a good fullback but a few decent games at the back end of the season is all he has to his name so far. If anyone thinks he should be out halfback IMO they are kidding themselves: he doesn't have a kicking game and can't direct a side around the park, all his good work at #7 was off the back of support play and second phase.

Just my opinion.
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[Cultured_Bogan]

Got a bad feeling about this backtracking.The karma bus will get us here. Just a gut feel.

He will either not play well or get injured. Sorry to be negative. He is a pretty talented footballer but no world beater, I would have let the original decision to release him stand.

I know 'm probably in the minority however thats just my personal opinion.

I'm of the same belief. This just doesn't bode well for us or Moltzen.

 

[sameulcon]

IMO he is no fullback or halfback. He is a running five-eighth, a good one (not great) who would work well next to a controlling, creative halfback.

We already have the best five-eighth in the business and don't have a dominating halfback so I've never thought Moltzen was the right fit for us.

He was gloried as a halfback after half a dozen average games in where he got most of the credit for the team playing well. At fullback, he played well again for about six odd games and before that he was a complete liability.

I hope I am proven wrong but I thought it was the right call to let him go. Maybe he will develop into a good fullback but a few decent games at the back end of the season is all he has to his name so far. If anyone thinks he should be out halfback IMO they are kidding themselves: he doesn't have a kicking game and can't direct a side around the park, all his good work at #7 was off the back of support play and second phase.

I think we will be ok. Benji played alot of halfback this year and Farah as well. At times Farah was 2 off the ruck and Lui was hardly cited. Maybe this was Benji and Farah overplaying their hand, but hey we finished in the top 4 two years in a row.

My only concern is what happens beyond 2012 with Tim Moltzen? Can we re sign him because the Dragons deal will be void?

So for me it will be Moltzen at 7 and Brown a well deserved crack at 1.

Just my opinion.
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[tiger91]

So it seems that Doust has got Moltzen's signature on the dotted line, then decided to parade his new signing before our game with Parramatta and in his blind excitement has forgotten to go through proper channels to seek Moltzen's release and validate the contract with the NRL..

… And I thought Humphries was dicking us around mid-season. Turns out he's pretty business savvy and Doust is the clown in a red and white suit.
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[happy_tiger]

Edit - diagree with HT. rexx I think u hit the nail on the head
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Confused Tiges05
Troy and I have been making almost the exact same argument in regards to this situation ???

 

[T-REXX]

He is talking about hybrid tiger. Don't worry I had to re check. Hahah
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[happy_tiger]

He is talking about hybrid tiger. Don't worry I had to re check. Hahah
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Yep no worries must of missed Hybrid's comment at the bottom of page

 

[Yossarian]

Well the information that is coming out seems to be vindicating Humphreys. He has been fairly consistent throughout the whole debacle and from available evidence it looks like he has been telling the truth.

So what do we know?

- WT may have advised some players/managers that they were willing to listen to alternative offers for contracted players in order to free up salary cap space.
- Tauber hawked Moltzen around and got a bite with the Dragons. A deal was done - no formal release was granted by WT but Tauber/Dragons seemed to think this would be a formality.
- Dragons decide to announce the signing
- Humphreys puts out a press release stating that Moltzen has not been released and the Dragons have acted prematurely
- Dragons scoff at this and get uppity

Fast forward to now
- WT/Humhpreys reiterate that no release has been granted and Moltzen still has a contract to play for the WT in 2012.
- Dragons say hang on, he's signed with us! We remember him signing the contract!
- Eventually it gets to the NRL who look in the filing cabinet and in the Moltzen manila folder can only find one contract - the original WT contract. There is no Dragons contract in the possession of the NRL.

So the bottom line is:
- For whatever reason, the Dragons did not lodge their apparently solid contract with the NRL which makes you think they knew they lacked the appropriate release to sign him
- Moltzen was never released from his contract which states he will play for the WT in 2012.
- Dragons seem to have no case whatsoever to seek compensation.
- Humphreys maintained a firm line and seems to be right.
- If the WT had have screwed up like Doust/SGI seemed to have, there would be a 78 page thread calling for sackings, lynchings etc

 

[happy_tiger]

x 2 Yoss nailed it
I think Doust might be looking for a new job after this one
Really poor management in this situation I reckon
Why they wouldn't have got the Tigers to send a copy of the release form in some form is just crazy and amateurish or even followed it up with the NRL to see if they had recieved it
Being a boss your job should be follow up ,follow up and more follow up

 

[Joel Helmes]

x 2 Yoss nailed it
I think Doust might be looking for a new job after this one
Really poor management in this situation I reckon
Why they wouldn't have got the Tigers to send a copy of the release form in some form is just crazy and amateurish or even followed it up with the NRL to see if they had recieved it
Being a boss your job should be follow up ,follow up and more follow up

Do we know for sure that they didn't? Seems like a pretty standard procedure.

 

[Juro]

How silly do the dragons look now? Sure, Moltzen may have signed with them, but the paperwork was never lodged with the NRL. Why didn't they immediately seek formal release from us?

And of course, Tauber again looks like a fool. Surely he must know how contracts are supposed to work. How many players does he manage? How hard is it to keep track of where the process is up to??

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Well the information that is coming out seems to be vindicating Humphreys. He has been fairly consistent throughout the whole debacle and from available evidence it looks like he has been telling the truth.

So what do we know?

- WT may have advised some players/managers that they were willing to listen to alternative offers for contracted players in order to free up salary cap space.
- Tauber hawked Moltzen around and got a bite with the Dragons. A deal was done - no formal release was granted by WT but Tauber/Dragons seemed to think this would be a formality.
- Dragons decide to announce the signing
- Humphreys puts out a press release stating that Moltzen has not been released and the Dragons have acted prematurely
- Dragons scoff at this and get uppity

Fast forward to now
- WT/Humhpreys reiterate that no release has been granted and Moltzen still has a contract to play for the WT in 2012.
- Dragons say hang on, he's signed with us! We remember him signing the contract!
- Eventually it gets to the NRL who look in the filing cabinet and in the Moltzen manila folder can only find one contract - the original WT contract. There is no Dragons contract in the possession of the NRL.

So the bottom line is:
- For whatever reason, the Dragons did not lodge their apparently solid contract with the NRL which makes you think they knew they lacked the appropriate release to sign him
- Moltzen was never released from his contract which states he will play for the WT in 2012.
- Dragons seem to have no case whatsoever to seek compensation.
- Humphreys maintained a firm line and seems to be right.
- If the WT had have screwed up like Doust/SGI seemed to have, there would be a 78 page thread calling for sackings, lynchings etc

A sane and thorough post Yoss. That said, I believe (I don't know if it's actually the case or not, just my opinion,) that WT knew that by Moltzen looking elsewhere it was pretty obvious he would be released from the final year of his contract.

I have been one a vocal supporter of the front office, but these shenanigans are a result of a turn of good fortune in a technicality and I'm not comfortable with him staying on after seeking permission to negotiate and subsequently signing with another club. It's bloody obvious that the whole debacle should have been resolved months ago when the Dragons paraded his signing.

 

[T-REXX]

If they have I'll take back everything I said.

Tigers have given no approval for a release.
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[Juro]

x 2 Yoss nailed it
I think Doust might be looking for a new job after this one
Really poor management in this situation I reckon
Why they wouldn't have got the Tigers to send a copy of the release form in some form is just crazy and amateurish or even followed it up with the NRL to see if they had recieved it
Being a boss your job should be follow up ,follow up and more follow up

Do we know for sure that they didn't? Seems like a pretty standard procedure.

If they did get a copy of the release, they should have lodged their new contract with the NRL.

If they didn't get a copy of the release, they should have kept asking for a copy until they got it.

 

[Joel Helmes]

x 2 Yoss nailed it
I think Doust might be looking for a new job after this one
Really poor management in this situation I reckon
Why they wouldn't have got the Tigers to send a copy of the release form in some form is just crazy and amateurish or even followed it up with the NRL to see if they had recieved it
Being a boss your job should be follow up ,follow up and more follow up

Do we know for sure that they didn't? Seems like a pretty standard procedure.

If they did get a copy of the release, they should have lodged their new contract with the NRL.

If they didn't get a copy of the release, they should have kept asking for a copy until they got it.

Yeah interesting, will be interesting to see how it pans out.

 

[happy_tiger]

x 2 Yoss nailed it
I think Doust might be looking for a new job after this one
Really poor management in this situation I reckon
Why they wouldn't have got the Tigers to send a copy of the release form in some form is just crazy and amateurish or even followed it up with the NRL to see if they had recieved it
Being a boss your job should be follow up ,follow up and more follow up

Do we know for sure that they didn't? Seems like a pretty standard procedure.

If they did get a copy of the release, they should have lodged their new contract with the NRL.

If they didn't get a copy of the release, they should have kept asking for a copy until they got it.

As I said if the Tigers didn't give you a copy you would contact the NRL and get a copy or confirmation that they had a copy
How hard is that

 

[B_B]

Does this mean that Moltzen will play with the Tigers for 2012 but is contracted to the Dragons for 2013/14? Although I'm sure they wouldn;t take him at all after this mess.

 

[Tigerdave]

Interesting stuff, note for future contracts; make sure you get releases first before announcing any signings….

I understand how some feel that the Tigers aren't exactly coming out and smelling like roses here, but given the dodgy mid-year announcement, stuff the Saints. A bit petty? yep, but you get what you dish out. They appear to have initially gone about this the wrong way, they didn't dot their I's and cross their T's before announcing and they did it right before the game on top of that.

If anything, I think karma has turned around and bitten them.

 

[Tigerdave]

Does this mean that Moltzen will play with the Tigers for 2012 but is contracted to the Dragons for 2013/14? Although I'm sure they wouldn;t take him at all after this mess.

Don't think it'll be working that way, as it stands (if the NRL does not have a contract from the Saints in regards to this), Moltzen would be considered just coming off contract at the end of 2012.

I agree though, I don't think they would take him anyway after this.