MOLTZEN? Thread
- Thread starter Tigerspirit
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innsaneink
Well-known member
Yeh dont want him bruised…..LMAO thatll do me
Say he runs it back flat chat on five occasions instead of his ambling casual way currently, and say he generates an extra 5-10 m on each run...there 25-50m our forwrds DONT have to make in those sets
Its a valid criticism
Say he runs it back flat chat on five occasions instead of his ambling casual way currently, and say he generates an extra 5-10 m on each run...there 25-50m our forwrds DONT have to make in those sets
Its a valid criticism
watersider
Well-known member
@innsaneink said:
Yeah fair enough rl is rl and players are going to have to cop hits. But to be honest, i dont want to see benji taking hitups and i dont mind if moltzen doesnt always charge in full bore. I think he often does return it at full speed, it is just that he is selective about it, and I dont mind that.
Making metres in sets doesnt come down to how many metres an individual player makes, that is why players are trained to get to the ground as quickly as possible. If a player makes five metres and wrestles his way forward an extra five metres then that allows the defensive line to reset and the next guy isnt going to make many metres because the line will be up in his face. Better to make five, get to the ground and get a quick play the ball. So quick play the balls are everything in rl. Thus, ryan and lote are better options to take the ball up (and moltzen is right tolook to them) because they are more likely to get quicker play the balls. Moltzen simply isnt as strong as them. So i dont agree that moltzen ALWAYS charging the ball back equals extra metres. I think that means he is going to get smashed a lot more and we are going to get slower play the balls at the start of the set as a result. Hodgson wasnt ever karmichael hunt style fullback either and he did alright. It would be great to have a 110kg fullback who ran at blindingly fast speeds, but greg inglis is a rare breed of player.
I think moltzen plays smart at the back and is massively undervalued on this forum. Without moltzen our backline would be greatly limited and almost solely reliant on marshall and lawrence to generate a threat. But you all want a player who will charge it up even if it isnt smart play.
You all sound a lot like stuart and blocker when they talk about farah not being an 'origin style' player just because he doesnt play hooker the way they expect it to be played. Moltzen may look to pass more than you like but consider his overall game and what he adds to our teams attack. You take him away and you take away a player who always finds space.
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watersider
Well-known member
@Muffstar said:
see that is the crap that is so common on this forum. It is just totally uncalled for personal attacks on the tigers players when you claim to be a supporter. I am not saying dont criticise the team, or be disappointed, but that is just garbage comment. Its a well worn retort but try being out there yourself. talk about a player having the heart of a pea then.
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hybrid_tiger
Well-known member
The excuses for this poor player just keep on coming.
@innsaneink said:
I reckon it's coming.
I reckon Woodsy may even be a candidate to give a spray.
I think he is lacking confidence. Especially in taking kicks.
I reckon he should be dropped to reggies to regain it.(ryan to fullback).
Also he has a habit of taking the ball in a crouching position and falling at the same time. Thats why he is getting hit in the head.
He needs to attack the ball and be taking above peoples heads, but he needs confidence to do that.
I didn't notice him yelling at team mates but maybe he thinks he needs to do that as part of his role as fullback and organiser of the defence.
I reckon he should be dropped to reggies to regain it.(ryan to fullback).
Also he has a habit of taking the ball in a crouching position and falling at the same time. Thats why he is getting hit in the head.
He needs to attack the ball and be taking above peoples heads, but he needs confidence to do that.
I didn't notice him yelling at team mates but maybe he thinks he needs to do that as part of his role as fullback and organiser of the defence.
The guy polled third in last weeks player ratings and still got bagged by the same old same olds (like every week).
So obviously not everybody thinks he's a dud.
Ever think some of you guys might be wrong and he's not as bad as you make out?
For someone with no heart he keeps coming back after getting his head knocked off.
Have a look at every other fullback and see if they never throw a ball to their wingers or run flat out straight into a huge forward rather than try to run around them.
Really…pfffffttt
So obviously not everybody thinks he's a dud.
Ever think some of you guys might be wrong and he's not as bad as you make out?
For someone with no heart he keeps coming back after getting his head knocked off.
Have a look at every other fullback and see if they never throw a ball to their wingers or run flat out straight into a huge forward rather than try to run around them.
Really…pfffffttt
I agree that Ryan is a bit slow for fullback and that Moltzen won't get dropped anyway. I would be leaving Ryan where his is and moving Reddy to fullback, he is one of those players who can pull something special out when needed whether it be in attack or defence.
Moltzen, well throw him in the centres and see how he goes he has the speed but I am a bit worried about his defence here as we already have Tuquri as a suspect defender out wide. Moltzen will not put his body on the line when it matters at fullback when Hayne scored that try on Sunday all he had to do was come in hard but he had to do the pansy slide in which gave Hayne time. Last year when Inu scored that try for the Warriors he should have smashed him instaed of sliding in on his knees.
Moltzen, well throw him in the centres and see how he goes he has the speed but I am a bit worried about his defence here as we already have Tuquri as a suspect defender out wide. Moltzen will not put his body on the line when it matters at fullback when Hayne scored that try on Sunday all he had to do was come in hard but he had to do the pansy slide in which gave Hayne time. Last year when Inu scored that try for the Warriors he should have smashed him instaed of sliding in on his knees.
I'd be happier if he'd learn from past mistakes, like not carrying the ball loosely when returning. I think he goes alright under the high ball, it's not easy for any fullback and it seems he is now being targeted with some rough stuff to rattle him a bit, however he stood his ground last weekend.
I'd like to see him run it back with a bit more venom but I understand it may not always be the best play. When his confidence built last season he was running back harder.
Definitely his defence could do with some more commitment when trying to stop players from getting the ball over the line, and I daresay he'd love to have that cover tackle from Sunday all over again. I hope that would be a hard lesson learned.
Bottom line is he is not going to be dropped, and to be honest I don't see a stand-out alternative for fullback.
I'd like to see him run it back with a bit more venom but I understand it may not always be the best play. When his confidence built last season he was running back harder.
Definitely his defence could do with some more commitment when trying to stop players from getting the ball over the line, and I daresay he'd love to have that cover tackle from Sunday all over again. I hope that would be a hard lesson learned.
Bottom line is he is not going to be dropped, and to be honest I don't see a stand-out alternative for fullback.
Joel Helmes
Well-known member
The question is whether Tim is bringing enough positives to the team to overcome these negatives?
GNR4LIFE
Well-known member
@cktiger said:
As far as im concerned you have zero credibility in all your staunch defence of Moltzen considering you were the ring leader week in week out last yr in your vandetta against Lui. If anything your constant jibes at the 'Moltzen haters' are one of the biggest acts of hypocracy of anyone ever on this forum. Its quite funny tbh that you don't even seem to realize it
@GNR4LIFE said:
:laughing: Funniest thing I have read!
Hate to have to tell you but I fully realise what hypocrisy is.
You'll find most of my defence of Moltzen is aimed at the personal criticism he cops - not the stuff about his ability.
Plenty of times this year I‘ve agreed that he’s not playing to the best of his ability – but even when he plays well he cops it on here.
On the other hand my criticism (never knew I had the power to be ringleader in a vendetta) of Lui was COMPLETELY based on his poor defence and lack of pace.
Even when he was getting shafted by all and sundry on here for his mad Monday brainsnap I deliberately tried NOT to kick him in the guts because after complaining about his game for ages I thought it best to leave the personal stuff to others.
In contrast Moltzen gets called a peaheart , is continually named as being in the team because he’s mates with Marshall (as if Marshall has no other friends), gets named by ‘so - called ‘ Tiger supporters in the 17 players they hate most and , earlier today one of this forum’s administrators named the fullback spot in his team as ‘anyone else but the cat’.
Seems to me the most critical of Moltzen are the blokes who were standing up for Lui during his poor run - forever saying to give him time .
This is the same time they don’t want to give Moltzen – who hasn’t had the luxury of being left in one position.
Now they can’t preach for Lui anymore (although plenty would take him back) they spitefully stick it to Moltzen .
The only thing pathetic about this thread is some of the people who have contributed their petty little comments to it.
@watersider said:
But you don't want him to get bruised either fmd ?? The guy does a couple of good things a game but for me he does not have the stomach to be a full time starter of any team. Maybe bring him off the bench might be an answer.
Maybe he should watch some videos of Slater, Jack, Belcher and see how real footballers attack and defend.
watersider
Well-known member
Again, who is the alternative to Moltzen?
All I've heard is Beau Ryan, but he isn't fast enough to play fullback. Even if you do move him there, do you really think having Ryan at the back is going to improve the side significantly? How? You not only take away a dangerous attacking player in Moltzen (no one would dispute that he is), you are also taking away an absolutely brilliant finisher from the wing. The stuff Ryan is doing on the wing at the moment can't be replaced, and it is not the sort of play that translates to fullback. He is brilliant at finishing off plays, working with very little space and carting it up from dummy half. He is not setting up plays in the backline or coming up with clever support play (the role of a fullback in attack) so what makes him so capable? I can't believe you are all foolhardy enough to think that Ryan to fullback will actually improve the side.
This is a very strange selection issue for everyone to get so worked up and outraged about when the alternative being offered is so meagre.
If you are sacking Moltzen because he isn't Slater, Jack, Belcher or even Brett Stewart then your standards for what makes a quality fullback are way too high. Moltzen isn't an all-time great and he isn't yet even an elite fullback in the league, but he is doing some very good things and is the best option at the club. If you stop comparing him to Slater and Jack it might help you to get a bit of perspective.
All I've heard is Beau Ryan, but he isn't fast enough to play fullback. Even if you do move him there, do you really think having Ryan at the back is going to improve the side significantly? How? You not only take away a dangerous attacking player in Moltzen (no one would dispute that he is), you are also taking away an absolutely brilliant finisher from the wing. The stuff Ryan is doing on the wing at the moment can't be replaced, and it is not the sort of play that translates to fullback. He is brilliant at finishing off plays, working with very little space and carting it up from dummy half. He is not setting up plays in the backline or coming up with clever support play (the role of a fullback in attack) so what makes him so capable? I can't believe you are all foolhardy enough to think that Ryan to fullback will actually improve the side.
This is a very strange selection issue for everyone to get so worked up and outraged about when the alternative being offered is so meagre.
If you are sacking Moltzen because he isn't Slater, Jack, Belcher or even Brett Stewart then your standards for what makes a quality fullback are way too high. Moltzen isn't an all-time great and he isn't yet even an elite fullback in the league, but he is doing some very good things and is the best option at the club. If you stop comparing him to Slater and Jack it might help you to get a bit of perspective.
G
Guest
Guest
@watersider said:
I disagree that Ryan isn't quick enough to play fullback. He looks a yard quicker this year and has shown pretty good pace IMO. I reckon Moltzen would have him covered, but only just. Ryan is better under the high ball though and is far more direct in his line running which I believe would be beneficial.
Tigerspirit
New member
Like i said when i opened the thread,,, 'wake up' Moltzen is not up to 1st grade. Sorry Ck tiger, years back our defense was able to cover and cope with his mistakes but presently our defence doesnt exist consistantly and i surely dont want the last line of defence being a ballerina with attitude.
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innsaneink
Well-known member
@watersider said:
Mate thats a good post but I think most fullbacks bringing it back rarely get a quik ptb, they usually face with a set line of at least three four five defenders….thats why most bring it back as hard and fast as possible....the sets your talking about usually begin with a couple of good forward hit ups bending or breaking the line
Any way Ive seen his positives and he has a few, he can tackle and can throw a decent pass, even put players in holes on occoasion...and has speed.
My big gripe with him is his attitude and getting up his team mates when they err....it happens far too often
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