NRL. Anti-Vaxers..

[TheDaBoss]

I work at a hospital and have gotten the vax but please stop parading about how intelligent you are for having gotten it. You've blindly followed what you've been told without understanding how mrna or spike proteins work either. Frankly if the news told you not to get it you wouldn't.

What do you do at the hospital?
It must be relevant seeing as you mentioned it in your broad generalising swipe.
The media is merely the channel many get their info and advice frim highly qualified ied experts

I said it so people couldn't accuse me of being an ignorant anti vaxxer - I wished to make it clear I have gotten it and am not against it before I then made my statement. And I work in medical research

I still find you to be fairly ignorant if I am being honest.

By assuming most people don't know how complex medical innovations work? Okay I take back "you" and instead I'll say "its likely that you".

It is incredibly likely that you don't know anything about the people you are making generalisations about.

Okay cochise you're right. Everyone who has gotten the vax knows exactly how spike proteins and mrna works. I'm an idiot for assuming that despite these being complex scientific developments researched by people with PHDs, everyone who's gotten the vaccine knows the exact mechanisms behind how it works and didn't just do it because they were told to. Happy?

 “The earth has music for those who listen.”

But when it comes to serious matters on this forum, there is no such thing as freedom of speech or that's your opinion, unless your willing and capable of fighting a tough battle.

And let's not fool ourselves, until you have settled in and become accustomed, this forum can be as brutal and unforgiving as any other social media site.

As soon as you open your mouth with a differing opinion you will immediately be labelled as the **black sheep** of the forum and that label will remain forever unless you can put in a lot of time and effort to try to remove it, if you can, and sometimes, when even mentioning just **one harmless word** can be enough to count you as a **black sheep**. And you will not be ignored but will be rushed with your time in trying to defend that opinion.

The white sheep rule the forum, but its clear that some **white sheep aren't as white** as they appear.

@DGilly, had the courage to say some very important words but he could have been interrupted and halted very quickly by those who think themselves as only my opinion is 100% right, and had @DGilly not known how to navigate and stood up for himself, this forum would have very quickly pushed him out the window and stuck the label on him as a black sheep **social outcast**.

So, good on you @DGilly for sharing your important opinions with us and for also being courageous in standing up for yourself.
“**The earth has music for those who listen**.”

Ease up on the bold text

 

[FinestTigers]

@cochise said in [NRL\. Anti\-

So, good on you @DGilly for sharing your important opinions with us and for also being courageous in standing up for yourself.
“**The earth has music for those who listen**.”

Ease up on the bold text

I do try and do that but sometimes somehow it turns out a bit more without realising it.

 

[fibrodreaming]

I see Fitzsimons is giving the NRL players and supporters the dumbed down version of the “official narrative” – that is, that the vaccine is very effective and we should take it to protect others.

The problem is that he can’t avoid the fundamental contradiction in the “official narrative”, which he actually alludes to in his opening remarks:

“Gentlemen, thanks for coming. And yes, I know this a pretty odd venue for a meeting – what, out in an open park and all, with me carefully standing upwind from you – but what else could I do?”

My question to Fitzy would be, if the vaccines are so effective, why are you so terrified of the unvaxxed NRL players that you will only meet them outdoors and upwind ?

And therein lies the conundrum for the “official narrative”, which is summed up best in the following:

How do you convince the unjabbed that the jab works so that they will get the jab

While

Convincing the jabbed that the jab doesn’t work so that they will get the booster.

Tricky !

As a doctor this is pretty straight forward to answer. The vaccine doesn't make you completely immune to it, but it certainly reduces the severity and risk of death and hospitalisation. Would you want to catch Covid, potentially give it to a family member who may have been too young, or too unwell to be able to get the vaccine and be the cause of their death? In regards to booster, it baffles me that this is brought up. A large proportion of vaccines require boosters at variable time frames. This is an argument by those who have minimal to no idea of how vaccines work.

I work in one of the major melbourne hospitals, treating COVID patients for the past 2 years. People who do not believe in either the severity of COVID or vaccinations, have been lucky to not watch someone loose the ability to breath and die. The long lasting burden of COVID on the Victorian and NSW health care system will be massive. When you are waiting years for your elective surgery now instead of months, you can thank covid. We have effectively lost 18 months of productivity as a large proportion of beds occupied by covid patients. That will be impossible to ever catch up on. The decision of those to not get a vaccination, and end up using valuable resources which could have been given to those who are responsible is a massive effect. The decision does not affect only you, it can have wide reaching impacts on many.

Thanks for the reply doc.

I have never doubted that Covid is a serious illness for those who are vulnerable and that for them at least, taking the vaccine makes perfect sense.

My comments were in the context of coercing/bullying NRL players into taking the vaccine in order to protect others. As you say, these vaccines are not sterilising and not even the manufacturers have claimed that they are. So there is not much justification to coerce health young men to take the vaccine when they can still catch Covid and transmit it.

We know that vaccine effectiveness fades to zero after 6 months. See this paper: “Effectiveness of Covid-19 Vaccination Against Risk of Symptomatic Infection, Hospitalization, and Death Up to 9 Months: A Swedish Total-Population Cohort Study”.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3949410

Effectiveness against symptomatic Covid starts off high (around 90%) but fades progressively over time and by the 240 day mark it goes negative. It fades faster for men and older frail individuals.

We see similar trend for severe cases. At around 90 days, the drop in efficacy is becoming noticeable. It’s under 50% by 6 months. By 250 days, it looks to be about 25% and falling. It also fades faster for men and older frail individuals.

You say: “A large proportion of vaccines require boosters at variable time frames. This is an argument by those who have minimal to no idea of how vaccines work.”

OK, so given the above study, (and other data that shows VE fading even faster than that), does this mean that we will now need to give boosters every six months to everyone over the age of 5 for the rest of their lives ?

But it goes further than that, we are giving people a gene therapy treatment for which there is no long-term safety data, and, moreover, the vaccine addresses the Wuhan spike protein which no longer exists. It would be like going to the doctor’s surgery in Autumn for a flu vax, only to be told he is giving me a shot for last year’s flu.

So, what do you reckon doc ? Boosters every six months for the term of our natural lives ?

What do the RCTs say about that ?

And what about the long term safety data relating to these gene therapies ? Any advice ?

I would really like to know.

 

[mike]

I see Fitzsimons is giving the NRL players and supporters the dumbed down version of the “official narrative” – that is, that the vaccine is very effective and we should take it to protect others.

The problem is that he can’t avoid the fundamental contradiction in the “official narrative”, which he actually alludes to in his opening remarks:

“Gentlemen, thanks for coming. And yes, I know this a pretty odd venue for a meeting – what, out in an open park and all, with me carefully standing upwind from you – but what else could I do?”

My question to Fitzy would be, if the vaccines are so effective, why are you so terrified of the unvaxxed NRL players that you will only meet them outdoors and upwind ?

And therein lies the conundrum for the “official narrative”, which is summed up best in the following:

How do you convince the unjabbed that the jab works so that they will get the jab

While

Convincing the jabbed that the jab doesn’t work so that they will get the booster.

Tricky !

As a doctor this is pretty straight forward to answer. The vaccine doesn't make you completely immune to it, but it certainly reduces the severity and risk of death and hospitalisation. Would you want to catch Covid, potentially give it to a family member who may have been too young, or too unwell to be able to get the vaccine and be the cause of their death? In regards to booster, it baffles me that this is brought up. A large proportion of vaccines require boosters at variable time frames. This is an argument by those who have minimal to no idea of how vaccines work.

I work in one of the major melbourne hospitals, treating COVID patients for the past 2 years. People who do not believe in either the severity of COVID or vaccinations, have been lucky to not watch someone loose the ability to breath and die. The long lasting burden of COVID on the Victorian and NSW health care system will be massive. When you are waiting years for your elective surgery now instead of months, you can thank covid. We have effectively lost 18 months of productivity as a large proportion of beds occupied by covid patients. That will be impossible to ever catch up on. The decision of those to not get a vaccination, and end up using valuable resources which could have been given to those who are responsible is a massive effect. The decision does not affect only you, it can have wide reaching impacts on many.

Thanks for the reply doc.

I have never doubted that Covid is a serious illness for those who are vulnerable and that for them at least, taking the vaccine makes perfect sense.

My comments were in the context of coercing/bullying NRL players into taking the vaccine in order to protect others. As you say, these vaccines are not sterilising and not even the manufacturers have claimed that they are. So there is not much justification to coerce health young men to take the vaccine when they can still catch Covid and transmit it.

We know that vaccine effectiveness fades to zero after 6 months. See this paper: “Effectiveness of Covid-19 Vaccination Against Risk of Symptomatic Infection, Hospitalization, and Death Up to 9 Months: A Swedish Total-Population Cohort Study”.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3949410

Effectiveness against symptomatic Covid starts off high (around 90%) but fades progressively over time and by the 240 day mark it goes negative. It fades faster for men and older frail individuals.

We see similar trend for severe cases. At around 90 days, the drop in efficacy is becoming noticeable. It’s under 50% by 6 months. By 250 days, it looks to be about 25% and falling. It also fades faster for men and older frail individuals.

You say: “A large proportion of vaccines require boosters at variable time frames. This is an argument by those who have minimal to no idea of how vaccines work.”

OK, so given the above study, (and other data that shows VE fading even faster than that), does this mean that we will now need to give boosters every six months to everyone over the age of 5 for the rest of their lives ?

But it goes further than that, we are giving people a gene therapy treatment for which there is no long-term safety data, and, moreover, the vaccine addresses the Wuhan spike protein which no longer exists. It would be like going to the doctor’s surgery in Autumn for a flu vax, only to be told he is giving me a shot for last year’s flu.

So, what do you reckon doc ? Boosters every six months for the term of our natural lives ?

What do the RCTs say about that ?

And what about the long term safety data relating to **these gene therapies** ? Any advice ?

I would really like to know.

For crying out loud they are not gene therapies. **The vaccines do not alter your genes**, period.

 

[fibrodreaming]

Of course they are gene therapies, that's well recognised. But it doesn't matter for this discussion. They have never been used before in these numbers and there are no long term safety data.

 

[mike]

Of course they are gene therapies, that's well recognised. But it doesn't matter for this discussion. They have never been used before in these numbers and there are no long term safety data.

They definitely are **NOT gene therapies**. This a well established fact. They never enter the nucleus of a cell and cannot alter your genes.

 

[fibrodreaming]

Of course they are gene therapies, that's well recognised. But it doesn't matter for this discussion. They have never been used before in these numbers and there are no long term safety data.

They definitely are **NOT gene therapies**. This a well established fact. They never enter the nucleus of a cell and cannot alter your genes.

The mRNA enters the cells and instruct the cells to express the spike protein on it's surface, which they do. They have never been used before in a mass vaccination campaign and we have no long term safety data.

Anyway, the point is, there is no long term safety data. If you know of any, please let me know.

 

[fibrodreaming]

For crying out loud they are not gene therapies. The vaccines do not alter your genes, period.

We don't know. That''s the point. They haven't been studied long enough.

https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/2021/08/13/mit-harvard-study-suggests-mrna-vaccine-might-permanently-alter-dna-after-all/

 

[Geo]

As long as the Umbrella Corporation isn’t involved I think we good..

 

[Eyeofthetiger 0]

Has anyone here tested there sperm after the vaccine to see if they are still swimming? Lol serious question

 

[Eyeofthetiger 0]

For crying out loud they are not gene therapies. The vaccines do not alter your genes, period.

We don't know. That''s the point. They haven't been studied long enough.

https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/2021/08/13/mit-harvard-study-suggests-mrna-vaccine-might-permanently-alter-dna-after-all/

Lucky for me, no vaccine no altered DNA. If it’s going to be true, you might all become aliens lol

 

[mike]

Of course they are gene therapies, that's well recognised. But it doesn't matter for this discussion. They have never been used before in these numbers and there are no long term safety data.

They definitely are **NOT gene therapies**. This a well established fact. They never enter the nucleus of a cell and cannot alter your genes.

The mRNA enters the cells and instruct the cells to express the spike protein on it's surface, which they do. They have never been used before in a mass vaccination campaign and we have no long term safety data.

Anyway, the point is, there is no long term safety data. If you know of any, please let me know.

I understand what the vaccines do. That's why I know they are not gene therapy, the mRNA vaccines DO NOT ALTER YOUR GENES.

The cell responds as you say a produces a spike protein. The mRNA is then quickly broken down and destroyed by the cell. The spike protein is recognised as a invader and primes your immune system to produces antibodies. If you then do then get a live Covid 19 virus your immune system recognises it and does it's job. It's you immune system that does the heavy lifting.

The vaccines only stay in your system for a very short time. A matter of days, at the most a few weeks for some, and then they are gone.

We already know what the adverse effects of the vaccines are. Longitudinal studies won't reveal any additional adverse effects. What they will do is determine how long the the immune response is, and therefore how often we need boosters. Various aspects of the studies may tell us what is the most effective dose.

 

[cochise]

Has anyone here tested there sperm after the vaccine to see if they are still swimming? Lol serious question

Do you want an honest answer?

 

[Eyeofthetiger 0]

Has anyone here tested there sperm after the vaccine to see if they are still swimming? Lol serious question

Do you want an honest answer?

Yes, serious question?

 

[Eyeofthetiger 0]

Of course they are gene therapies, that's well recognised. But it doesn't matter for this discussion. They have never been used before in these numbers and there are no long term safety data.

They definitely are **NOT gene therapies**. This a well established fact. They never enter the nucleus of a cell and cannot alter your genes.

The mRNA enters the cells and instruct the cells to express the spike protein on it's surface, which they do. They have never been used before in a mass vaccination campaign and we have no long term safety data.

Anyway, the point is, there is no long term safety data. If you know of any, please let me know.

I understand what the vaccines do. That's why I know they are not gene therapy, the mRNA vaccines DO NOT ALTER YOUR GENES.

The cell responds as you say a produces a spike protein. The mRNA is then quickly broken down and destroyed by the cell. The spike protein is recognised as a invader and primes your immune system to produces antibodies. If you then do then get a live Covid 19 virus your immune system recognises it and does it's job. It's you immune system that does the heavy lifting.

The vaccines only stay in your system for a very short time. A matter of days, at the most a few weeks for some, and then they are gone.

We already know what the adverse effects of the vaccines are. Longitudinal studies won't reveal any additional adverse effects. What they will do is determine how long the the immune response is, and therefore how often we need boosters. Various aspects of the studies may tell us what is the most effective dose.

@mike, are you a doctor?

 

[mike]

Of course they are gene therapies, that's well recognised. But it doesn't matter for this discussion. They have never been used before in these numbers and there are no long term safety data.

They definitely are **NOT gene therapies**. This a well established fact. They never enter the nucleus of a cell and cannot alter your genes.

The mRNA enters the cells and instruct the cells to express the spike protein on it's surface, which they do. They have never been used before in a mass vaccination campaign and we have no long term safety data.

Anyway, the point is, there is no long term safety data. If you know of any, please let me know.

I understand what the vaccines do. That's why I know they are not gene therapy, the mRNA vaccines DO NOT ALTER YOUR GENES.

The cell responds as you say a produces a spike protein. The mRNA is then quickly broken down and destroyed by the cell. The spike protein is recognised as a invader and primes your immune system to produces antibodies. If you then do then get a live Covid 19 virus your immune system recognises it and does it's job. It's you immune system that does the heavy lifting.

The vaccines only stay in your system for a very short time. A matter of days, at the most a few weeks for some, and then they are gone.

We already know what the adverse effects of the vaccines are. Longitudinal studies won't reveal any additional adverse effects. What they will do is determine how long the the immune response is, and therefore how often we need boosters. Various aspects of the studies may tell us what is the most effective dose.

@mike, are you a doctor?

No

 

[mike]

For crying out loud they are not gene therapies. The vaccines do not alter your genes, period.

We don't know. That''s the point. They haven't been studied long enough.

https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/2021/08/13/mit-harvard-study-suggests-mrna-vaccine-might-permanently-alter-dna-after-all/

The answer is NO the mRNA vaccines do not alter your DNA. Absolutely misinformation by Dr Doug well and truly debunked.

https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/mrna-vaccines-will-not-change-your-dna-debunking-doug-corrigan/

 

[Eyeofthetiger 0]

Of course they are gene therapies, that's well recognised. But it doesn't matter for this discussion. They have never been used before in these numbers and there are no long term safety data.

They definitely are **NOT gene therapies**. This a well established fact. They never enter the nucleus of a cell and cannot alter your genes.

The mRNA enters the cells and instruct the cells to express the spike protein on it's surface, which they do. They have never been used before in a mass vaccination campaign and we have no long term safety data.

Anyway, the point is, there is no long term safety data. If you know of any, please let me know.

I understand what the vaccines do. That's why I know they are not gene therapy, the mRNA vaccines DO NOT ALTER YOUR GENES.

The cell responds as you say a produces a spike protein. The mRNA is then quickly broken down and destroyed by the cell. The spike protein is recognised as a invader and primes your immune system to produces antibodies. If you then do then get a live Covid 19 virus your immune system recognises it and does it's job. It's you immune system that does the heavy lifting.

The vaccines only stay in your system for a very short time. A matter of days, at the most a few weeks for some, and then they are gone.

We already know what the adverse effects of the vaccines are. Longitudinal studies won't reveal any additional adverse effects. What they will do is determine how long the the immune response is, and therefore how often we need boosters. Various aspects of the studies may tell us what is the most effective dose.

@mike, are you a doctor?

No

Why are some people asymptomatic despite not being vaccinated? I thought we have zero immunity to the virus before catching it?

 

[cochise]

Of course they are gene therapies, that's well recognised. But it doesn't matter for this discussion. They have never been used before in these numbers and there are no long term safety data.

They definitely are **NOT gene therapies**. This a well established fact. They never enter the nucleus of a cell and cannot alter your genes.

The mRNA enters the cells and instruct the cells to express the spike protein on it's surface, which they do. They have never been used before in a mass vaccination campaign and we have no long term safety data.

Anyway, the point is, there is no long term safety data. If you know of any, please let me know.

I understand what the vaccines do. That's why I know they are not gene therapy, the mRNA vaccines DO NOT ALTER YOUR GENES.

The cell responds as you say a produces a spike protein. The mRNA is then quickly broken down and destroyed by the cell. The spike protein is recognised as a invader and primes your immune system to produces antibodies. If you then do then get a live Covid 19 virus your immune system recognises it and does it's job. It's you immune system that does the heavy lifting.

The vaccines only stay in your system for a very short time. A matter of days, at the most a few weeks for some, and then they are gone.

We already know what the adverse effects of the vaccines are. Longitudinal studies won't reveal any additional adverse effects. What they will do is determine how long the the immune response is, and therefore how often we need boosters. Various aspects of the studies may tell us what is the most effective dose.

@mike, are you a doctor?

No

Why are some people asymptomatic despite not being vaccinated? I thought we have zero immunity to the virus before catching it?

Because that is one of the features of this virus, not everyone who becomes infected displays symptoms.

 

[Eyeofthetiger 0]

Of course they are gene therapies, that's well recognised. But it doesn't matter for this discussion. They have never been used before in these numbers and there are no long term safety data.

They definitely are **NOT gene therapies**. This a well established fact. They never enter the nucleus of a cell and cannot alter your genes.

The mRNA enters the cells and instruct the cells to express the spike protein on it's surface, which they do. They have never been used before in a mass vaccination campaign and we have no long term safety data.

Anyway, the point is, there is no long term safety data. If you know of any, please let me know.

I understand what the vaccines do. That's why I know they are not gene therapy, the mRNA vaccines DO NOT ALTER YOUR GENES.

The cell responds as you say a produces a spike protein. The mRNA is then quickly broken down and destroyed by the cell. The spike protein is recognised as a invader and primes your immune system to produces antibodies. If you then do then get a live Covid 19 virus your immune system recognises it and does it's job. It's you immune system that does the heavy lifting.

The vaccines only stay in your system for a very short time. A matter of days, at the most a few weeks for some, and then they are gone.

We already know what the adverse effects of the vaccines are. Longitudinal studies won't reveal any additional adverse effects. What they will do is determine how long the the immune response is, and therefore how often we need boosters. Various aspects of the studies may tell us what is the most effective dose.

@mike, are you a doctor?

No

Why are some people asymptomatic despite not being vaccinated? I thought we have zero immunity to the virus before catching it?

Because that is one of the features of this virus, not everyone who becomes infected displays symptoms.

Have the scientists figured that out yet?