NSW State Cup

[stanjohnno]

HI all. Couldnt agree more tigerz…great for the fans and great for the players. NRL squad can be kept under pressure more from the state cup from fans actually seeing the players play. Also fantastic for the State Cup teams...feel sorry for them playing to a handful of people when they are only 1 peg below the highest level.

 

[wtfl1981]

HI all. Couldnt agree more tigerz…great for the fans and great for the players. NRL squad can be kept under pressure more from the state cup from fans actually seeing the players play. Also fantastic for the State Cup teams...feel sorry for them playing to a handful of people when they are only 1 peg below the highest level.

Up to ARLC to make a decision about changing 2nd grade from u20 to over 20

Makes a lot more sense. I doubt that all 3 grades would occur on nrl game days due to ground surface wear and tear and cost of flying 3 teams across australia / nz
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_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

 

[saundo55]

Just seems do obvious we ARE Wests Tigers anything else isnof good enough Westsand Balmain days as individual powers are over but Bundy Cup can keep the names alive.
This is from a Tigers fan of over 40 years
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[Cultured_Bogan]

A bundy cup side is not critical to the birth of a WT nsw cup side. There does need to be a senior bundy cup team to send u20 players who don't cut it for NYC and anyone who doesn't cut it for a NSW cup.

Balmain would prob be unable to fund a bundy cup side without a leagues club.

As suggested before by WT ceo…

WT NRL
WT NYC
WT NSW cup (play in both balmain and wests strips)

Suggested train at concord play at campbelltown for NSW cup side sounds like a solution for serving sw sydney. A magpies bundy cup side (backed by ashfield) may also serve as a 4th tier but should be based in campbelltown to serve players in that area (rather than travelling to concord)
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I couldn't see an issue with that at all. Magpies still live on, Balmain still lives on (pending leagues club assistance from Tigers leagues or RE etc.) and there is a clear pathway from U20's to FG for those NYC graduates who cannot make the direct transition.

It is not Wests Tigers, nor the Magpies responsibility to ensure Balmain stay afloat fiscally when it comes to funding semi-professional teams.

 

[Gary_Bakerloo]

Why doesn't Balmain want a joint State Cup team?

 

[Yossarian]

Potential futures include:

- single WT nsw cup side for 2013 (legal and Joint venture constitution hurdles to overcome)

_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

Just to clear one thing up, there isn't, nor has there ever been, anything in the Wests Tigers constitution about both side's having to retain their own NSW Cup team. This is just a lie. It is the same with having the Magpie on the shoulder, at no point is it even remotely mentioned in a constitution.

Just thought that should be clear, because it seems that people see this as a stumbling block for a joint State Cup team.

As I've said before, many people quote the JV agreement/constitution/etc but nodody seems to have a copy of the damn thing…

I'm not saying people are telling porkies I'd just like to take a look myself since I was at the Balmain vote (and remain a Balmain Football Club member) and I've never seen the thing myself.

 

[Yossarian]

Why doesn't Balmain want a joint State Cup team?

Well I'm yet to see anything to that effect. The OP suggests they don't but I've seen no official statement to that effect. If someone has one or a news report could they post it?

 

[Gary_Bakerloo]

Why doesn't Balmain want a joint State Cup team?

Well I'm yet to see anything to that effect. The OP suggests they don't but I've seen no official statement to that effect. If someone has one or a news report could they post it?

That's my point. This thread is confusing and speculative.

 

[Benjirific]

Potential futures include:

- single WT nsw cup side for 2013 (legal and Joint venture constitution hurdles to overcome)

_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

Just to clear one thing up, there isn't, nor has there ever been, anything in the Wests Tigers constitution about both side's having to retain their own NSW Cup team. This is just a lie. It is the same with having the Magpie on the shoulder, at no point is it even remotely mentioned in a constitution.

Just thought that should be clear, because it seems that people see this as a stumbling block for a joint State Cup team.

As I've said before, many people quote the JV agreement/constitution/etc but nodody seems to have a copy of the damn thing…

I'm not saying people are telling porkies I'd just like to take a look myself since I was at the Balmain vote (and remain a Balmain Football Club member) and I've never seen the thing myself.

I asked the Wests Tigers Chairman about this at a Balmain State Cup game sometime last year, and he specifically said there is nothing in it about that, or the Magpie on the shoulder. It seems to be a misconception that gets sprayed around.

 

[wtfl1981]

Nothing has been decided or finalised on what will happen for 2013 and beyond. Expect a decision sometime before june 30.

Not sure what the intention was in the original post but from what i can explain from my understanding is that balmain originally had an assumption that magpies were gone (think feb 2012 media reports) and balmain would default as sole feeder side.

Once the reality set in and balmain realised that a wt nsw cup team was the preferred solution then they have gone quiet on the matter.

Its up to both boards to come to an agreement on the future of both clubs in nsw cup. WT cannot force the clubs to do anything directly.

Assumptions were that balmain fc was all for a single nsw cup team but some board members are not and likewise for magpies. So its not a simple easy decision.

We should all wait for formal statements from both clubs sometime around june on the matter.

Any balmain/magpie fc member here should express concerns via there board reps. Be it for or against a single wt nsw cup side.
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[wtfl1981]

Potential futures include:

- single WT nsw cup side for 2013 (legal and Joint venture constitution hurdles to overcome)

_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

Just to clear one thing up, there isn't, nor has there ever been, anything in the Wests Tigers constitution about both side's having to retain their own NSW Cup team. This is just a lie. It is the same with having the Magpie on the shoulder, at no point is it even remotely mentioned in a constitution.

Just thought that should be clear, because it seems that people see this as a stumbling block for a joint State Cup team.

This is drifting off topic a bit but the agreement back in 1999 was to unite at NRL level only and form WT. WT is a joint venture company whose primary shareholders are ashfield, campbelltown, balmain fc and magpies fc. Primary reason of JV was to ensure that both 1908 clubs 'live on' at NRL level.

Juniors (harold matts, sg ball and then jersey flegg and premier league was to remain with the respective clubs)

The JV agreement refers to all things to do with a NRL side only. Over time that has blurred a bit with the introduction of NYC and the demise of NSW cup being moved away from NRL schedules.

So yes nsw cup is not part of the jv agreement either way (there must be one team or the must be two teams)

As for magpie on the sleeve it was agreed by both parties back in 1999\. That has nothing to do with nsw cup. Its a small honour to the history and tradition of the original wests club with the magpies identity disappearing from NRL level as a result of the new JV.

For further detailed information on both these matters contact WT forum username: Gobbs
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[wtfl1981]

This may change things…
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A POWERFUL lobby of NRL club chairmen want Toyota Cup games re-scheduled midweek to save reserve grade from its continued decline into park football obscurity.

As former Test coach Chris Anderson labelled this season's fare "dumbed-down" and "boring", The Daily Telegraph last night learned of the radical proposal to preserve open-age depth.

The idea of returning NSW Cup games to their traditional curtain-raiser status has been steadily gaining favour among the 16 club chairmen, who this year incorporated as an official body to advocate their views.

Because NRL venues refuse to host three matches, NSW Cup games were sacrificed to suburban backblocks when the national under 20s competition began five years ago.

The crumbling profile and exposure has forced over-age players to quit in droves, and many club bosses believe the NRL's standard is now beginning to suffer because of insufficient depth.

Led by Sydney Roosters supremo Nick Politis, several chairmen believe the best fix is for the NSW Cup to be restored as the code's premier feeder competition and once again staged at the most prestigious venues.

The trade-off would see Toyota Cup games moved to Wednesday night stand-alone fixtures, which would still be promoted and televised nationally.

"You could compare it to college football in the USA - it would become its own competition played on a separate day," one club chairman said. "The idea has been raised at our last few meetings and there's quite a lot of support because too many kids are being rushed into first grade before their time."

There is also a chance the idea could be raised at tomorrow's NRL CEOs conference. Unimpressed at the standard of football over the first six weeks, Anderson said the lack of proper depth was a concern. "We're starting to see it now," he said. "A lot of kids are coming straight from the under 20s and they're not ready.

"Look at the front rowers - there's hardly any left because they don't mature until later on.

"But if you don't make it in the under 20s, you're put out to pasture.

"The under 20s will tell a coach if kids have ability, but you can't tell how tough they are until you throw them in against men.

"That's why the NSW Cup needs to be strong again."

Following a weekend where two teams were shut-out, Fox Sports Stats revealed that 16 fewer tries have been scored this season than at the same stage 12 months ago (327 to 311).

Anderson accused coaches - with the exception of Craig Bellamy and Wayne Bennett - of producing game plans that lacked structure and strategy, hence making it easier for well-drilled defences to handle. "I've seen some pretty ordinary games - the good ones are few and far between," Anderson said.

"With the exception of Bellamy and Bennett, the new regime of coaches just don't seem to build a platform and structure to win games.

"It's been coming for about two or three years - there's been a real dumbing-down of the game and it can be quite boring to watch.

"Reserve grade has become irrelevant and I think that's wrong."
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[Knuckles]

The State Cup is just a terrible terrible competition ….. I agree with Anderson that it needs a drastic overhaul.
The big hope is the new Commission will come in and do something about it. In its present format, as mentioned above, its just an irrelevant and boring competition. How fans get so stuck on it is beyond me.

 

[BRET]

There is also a chance the idea could be raised at tomorrow's NRL CEOs conference. Unimpressed at the standard of football over the first six weeks, Anderson said the lack of proper depth was a concern. "We're starting to see it now," he said. "A lot of kids are coming straight from the under 20s and they're not ready.

"Look at the front rowers - there's hardly any left because they don't mature until later on.

"But if you don't make it in the under 20s, you're put out to pasture.

"The under 20s will tell a coach if kids have ability, but you can't tell how tough they are until you throw them in against men.

"That's why the NSW Cup needs to be strong again."

"It's been coming for about two or three years - there's been a real dumbing-down of the game and it can be quite boring to watch.

"Reserve grade has become irrelevant and I think that's wrong."

_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

And they are only realising these factors now??? Pretty sure MANY of us were screaming out about these issues a long time ago.

 

[Staks]

Remember hearing that after the last meeting that the CEO's of the 16 NRL clubs fully endorsed the continuation of the NYC competition as the lead game to the NRL.
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[stryker]

The NYC is a pathetic apprenticeship for NRL. Always has been.

The game is declining in several areas due to kids being elevated straight from NYC to first grade when they are not ready. We have experienced this ourselves with Matty Groat. Props take time to develop as do playmakers. The game needs a top notch NRL backed reserve grade competition for the graduates from NYC to cut their teeth in and for those in their twilight to finish their careers off and give something back i.e. teach the new up and comers.

For mine, this is the number 2 factor the commission needs to work on after they have landed the next broadcast rights deals.

 

[happy_tiger]

Just throwing an idea out there Keep both the NYC and NSW Cup but strengthen the NSW Cup by reducing the amount of teams

Instead of 16 teams reduce to say 10 - 12 and the players play for different franchises which are independant to the clubs and then can still be called upon by the Tigers or whichever club they originallly belong to

Might create more fans and get more and different fans to the games

The clubs could evenly share the costs of running the comp with the NRL so some clubs which are further away are not more disadvantaged than others

Just spitballing …....