Paris under Terrorist attacks

[Cultured_Bogan]

Bombing will not achieve anything. Financial attrition is what is required. Cut their funding and they will fall almost overnight. Call the Saudis out on financing their Wahhabi expansionism as well.

Our reliance on oil is funding this. Filling up the car is the biggest contributor to financing ISIS.

Ground fighting and bombing is a stalemate that will result in a power vacuum once the West inevitably leaves.

How much funding do you think it takes to make a series of youtube videos and arm someone with a AK47?

Paris would have happened with a few thousand dollars. 9/11 the same.
Sure, it's a factor. But cutting financing won't stop a ideological cult.

Cutting the funding will destroy the overall organisational structure. al-Qaeda only existed because of bin Laden's money.

Bit hard to plan and fund attacks with no organisation and no money. You limit the reach as well because they cannot pay people to spread their ideologue. Will you stop it entirely? No, of course not. You can't stop everyday citizens in this country from killing each other, but you will certainly limit the frequency and the severity at which it can happen.

Fighting only steels their resolve, did you read what I said earlier, some of these blokes literally believe the end times are upon us.

 

[hammertime]

5) Bomb the hell out of ISIS.

And how does that solve the issue?

ummmm… not sure GNR.

Maybe we could just drop bunches of roses and lollipops on them in hope that they stop their social media campaigns and brainwashing to our disenfranchised youth to go blow themselves up?

or maybe we get a bunch of guys to go over there, hold their hands around a circle and try singing kum-by-ya? Maybe that will stop them spreading their hate across borders and into our community?

Might stop the one or two disenfranchised white kids running off and joining ISIS, but it creates hundreds to thousands of potential recruits whose civilian family members are killed by indiscriminate bombing. We've gone into the Middle East chasing shadows before, and now we're left with the by-product (ISIS.)

Violence is a stalemate, these guys have already shown they're willing to go past the horror of war to bring their agenda about.

I'm sicken how leftist and soft we have become. We need to hit them and hit them hard. If that does draw more out, then so be it.

The bombing is not indiscriminate. Western forces work extremely hard to avoid civilian causalities. How people turn on their own countries and point the finger at our moral compass really infuriates me. We are not bad guys. We can see it in our responses and sensitivities. But this leftist attitude of trying to find blame with ourselves will be our downfall.

Do we behead or deliberately murder innocents? NO. Do we act by words in an old book or by education, ration and reason? Do we want to lift the world up or bring it down?

Maybe we should have left the Nazi's alone all those years ago? Is that the solution we are going with?

I think we fail to forget Islamic terrorism all started before the US invaded Iraq. It was a unprovoked slaughter. While the US have made mistakes, it's nowhere near the evil of that awful day.

Just maybe we need a few more innocent slaughters to smack the political correctness and weakness out of us…. FFS.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

I'm sicken how leftist and soft we have become. We need to hit them and hit them hard. If that does draw more out, then so be it.

That's a great attitude to have. If it causes more incidents like the one in Paris the other day, so be it.. Just as long as we flex our muscles to show how tough we are. You're conceding yourself that it might not solve the issue, but you still want it happen?

 

[hammertime]

5) Bomb the hell out of ISIS.

And how does that solve the issue?

ummmm… not sure GNR.

Maybe we could just drop bunches of roses and lollipops on them in hope that they stop their social media campaigns and brainwashing to our disenfranchised youth to go blow themselves up?

or maybe we get a bunch of guys to go over there, hold their hands around a circle and try singing kum-by-ya? Maybe that will stop them spreading their hate across borders and into our community?

Ok, think of a bomb as a seed. When you drop the seed, what will grow out of it is more hate and insurgents. You bomb them, they will bomb you back. And suppose you kill them, what of the millions around the world who will retaliate. I'm not being PC here saying its wrong, because if it works, do it, but it doesn't, its been proven. I don't know what the answer is, but ''bombing ISIS'' isn't. Anyone who thinks it will end this is as naive as you can get.

No bomb was dropped to trigger 9/11\. France didn't even enter the ISIS fight before Charlie Hebbo either.

What would be your solution GNR?

 

[GNR4LIFE]

And how does that solve the issue?

ummmm… not sure GNR.

Maybe we could just drop bunches of roses and lollipops on them in hope that they stop their social media campaigns and brainwashing to our disenfranchised youth to go blow themselves up?

or maybe we get a bunch of guys to go over there, hold their hands around a circle and try singing kum-by-ya? Maybe that will stop them spreading their hate across borders and into our community?

Ok, think of a bomb as a seed. When you drop the seed, what will grow out of it is more hate and insurgents. You bomb them, they will bomb you back. And suppose you kill them, what of the millions around the world who will retaliate. I'm not being PC here saying its wrong, because if it works, do it, but it doesn't, its been proven. I don't know what the answer is, but ''bombing ISIS'' isn't. Anyone who thinks it will end this is as naive as you can get.

No bomb was dropped to trigger 9/11\. France didn't even enter the ISIS fight before Charlie Hebbo either.

What would be your solution GNR?

Well if you want to toe the official line with 9/11, there were actually a few motives for it if you dig deep enough. The US' military presence in Saudi Arabia, the US' support of Israel and sanctions that had been imposed on Iraq were all potential motives.

The motives for Charlie Hebdo are pretty well known, with their vulgar cartoons of Muhammad. One cartoon they actually mocked a little Syrian girl who had drowned in the ocean. So while that act was heinous and they didn't deserve it, they weren't exactly innocent bystanders.

I don't have a solution. I just know that bombing isn't the solution as it doesn't fix the issue, it just inflames it.

 

[Tigerdave]

how is that not the same thing?

>
Because it's referred to as taking responsibility, not admitting.

>

"oh I take responsibility for the crime, but I'm not admitting I did it", so you're trying to suggest that IS is scapegoating itself?


so IS is lying? this wasn't organised by a current group at all? just a pack of lone nutters? When have terrorist groups lied about attacks they didn't carry out?

>
Why Are Terrorist Claims of Responsibility So Hard to Verify?
>
http://www.livescience.com/32575-why-are-terrorist-claims-of-responsibility-so-hard-to-verify.html

I understand why they would lie about it, but in the lone example given, regardless of 1 spokesman of the group coming out later stating "no that was a mistake it wasn't us"….......evidence was still linked to the initial group.

Again I ask... This wasn't organised by a current group at all? just a pack of lone nutters?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

And how does that solve the issue?

ummmm… not sure GNR.

Maybe we could just drop bunches of roses and lollipops on them in hope that they stop their social media campaigns and brainwashing to our disenfranchised youth to go blow themselves up?

or maybe we get a bunch of guys to go over there, hold their hands around a circle and try singing kum-by-ya? Maybe that will stop them spreading their hate across borders and into our community?

Might stop the one or two disenfranchised white kids running off and joining ISIS, but it creates hundreds to thousands of potential recruits whose civilian family members are killed by indiscriminate bombing. We've gone into the Middle East chasing shadows before, and now we're left with the by-product (ISIS.)

Violence is a stalemate, these guys have already shown they're willing to go past the horror of war to bring their agenda about.

I'm sicken how leftist and soft we have become. We need to hit them and hit them hard. If that does draw more out, then so be it.

The bombing is not indiscriminate. Western forces work extremely hard to avoid civilian causalities. How people turn on their own countries and point the finger at our moral compass really infuriates me. We are not bad guys. We can see it in our responses and sensitivities. But this leftist attitude of trying to find blame with ourselves will be our downfall.

Do we behead or deliberately murder innocents? NO. Do we act by words in an old book or by education, ration and reason? Do we want to lift the world up or bring it down?

Maybe we should have left the Nazi's alone all those years ago? Is that the solution we are going with?

I think we fail to forget Islamic terrorism all started before the US invaded Iraq. It was a unprovoked slaughter. While the US have made mistakes, it's nowhere near the evil of that awful day.

Just maybe we need a few more innocent slaughters to smack the political correctness and weakness out of us…. FFS.

What's this got to do with being left or right? How many times has the Middle East been invaded by the West by force and peace/democracy has ensued? How many people died as a result of the West invading Iraq for non existent weapons of mass destruction, and what was the end result of that?

It doesn't work. You can argue the Nazi strawman all you want, it's a whole different kettle of fish as they were a government of a recognised country whom invaded surrounding countries, it was easy to identify and fight against the them in WWII as they fought fairly closely to the conventions of war.

I agree "care" is taken to minimise civilian casualties with bombing, but they still happen, and all too frequently so I still consider that to be indiscriminate. Would you be happy if someone dropped a bomb on your house and killed your wife and kids to kill your neighbour who was a wanted terrorist? "Yeah no worries lads, honest mistake, I'll just get remarried." It's happening to brown people on the other side of the planet so you don't have to consider that.

Perhaps we need to invade the Middle East a few more times before they finally bring about the end game and get their hands on a nuke and detonate it somewhere in the West.

 

[Tigerdave]

Islamists throwing gays off buildings, beheading those they don't agree with and using women as sex slaves has nothing to do with Western failings in the region

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Islamists throwing gays off buildings, beheading those they don't agree with and using women as sex slaves has nothing to do with Western failings in the region

No certainly not solely responsible, but it's certainly helped give rise to power for these clowns.

It's a complex mix of catalysts, both internal and external, that's why the solution isn't simple. Bombing them back to the stone age is not a solution IMO.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

how is that not the same thing?

>
Because it's referred to as taking responsibility, not admitting.

>

"oh I take responsibility for the crime, but I'm not admitting I did it", so you're trying to suggest that IS is scapegoating itself?

so IS is lying? this wasn't organised by a current group at all? just a pack of lone nutters? When have terrorist groups lied about attacks they didn't carry out?

>
Why Are Terrorist Claims of Responsibility So Hard to Verify?
>
http://www.livescience.com/32575-why-are-terrorist-claims-of-responsibility-so-hard-to-verify.html

I understand why they would lie about it, but in the lone example given, regardless of 1 spokesman of the group coming out later stating "no that was a mistake it wasn't us"….......evidence was still linked to the initial group.

Again I ask... This wasn't organised by a current group at all? just a pack of lone nutters?

Maybe its just me being a stickler, but the term is claiming responsibility. Its not referred to as admitting.

As far as who actually carried the act out, i don't know, it could been any of 100 terrorist cells.

 

[Tigerdave]

Islamists throwing gays off buildings, beheading those they don't agree with and using women as sex slaves has nothing to do with Western failings in the region

No certainly not, but it's given rise to power for these clowns.

It's a complex mix of catalysts, both internal and external, that's why the solution isn't simple. Bombing them back to the stone age is not a solution IMO.

It is a complex issue.

What needs to happen is make joining groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram and a slew of other Islamist groups, very unappealing. To remove said groups entirely needs to be done from the ground up. There are of course plenty of other religious right wing groups that need to be made unappealing as well, plenty of extremist Christian, Hindu and Jewish groups.

However, just leaving ISIS where it is without bombing etc is not the way to go either, these people are interested in genocide, they can't be left. Putting Western boots on the ground is not the way to go though and this job should be primarily left to the Middle Eastern nations, which is what is currently happening.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

IS has admitted it was them
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/619363/Islamic-State-ISIS-Twitter-Paris-attacks

IS will do anything to promote recruitment of their cause… I'm wondering if there is any real evidence yet that identifies the origin of the attacks back to IS.

There is one Syrian refugee link, and the links to Brussels so far, but nothing yet identifies IS other than propaganda and some nut-job looking for his 5 minutes of fame.

The US love this type of assumption!

any real evidence? besides them admitting it? You don't have to be a refugee to have links to ISIS, the other idiots involved in this were home grown recruits.

One would assume after confirming the identities of those that committed these acts, they will find out more information.

These weren't attacks by some lone nut job. IS has made it pretty clear what they want and how they intend to go about things. Not too sure there's much assumption going on.

Dave, I get peoples frustration and anger on this subject.

Personally IS need to be wiped off the map, but all I'm hearing is propaganda from all the powers to be around the world, with no real evidence to date.

I'm just looking for the real information. Not the US spin on their foreign agenda in Europe & the Middle East.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Islamists throwing gays off buildings, beheading those they don't agree with and using women as sex slaves has nothing to do with Western failings in the region

No certainly not, but it's given rise to power for these clowns.

It's a complex mix of catalysts, both internal and external, that's why the solution isn't simple. Bombing them back to the stone age is not a solution IMO.

It is a complex issue.

What needs to happen is make joining groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram and a slew of other Islamist groups, very unappealing. To remove said groups entirely needs to be done from the ground up. There are of course plenty of other religious right wing groups that need to be made unappealing as well, plenty of extremist Christian, Hindu and Jewish groups.

However, just leaving ISIS where it is without bombing etc is not the way to go either, these people are interested in genocide, they can't be left. Putting Western boots on the ground is not the way to go though and this job should be primarily left to the Middle Eastern nations, which is what is currently happening.

Not saying they should be left either Dave, just saying that the default response of "bomb them into oblivion" doesn't seem to work when they don't fear dying, not to mention the civilian casualties.

 

[Tigermama]

The human species has lost its spirituality. We need to rediscover it. Until that happens, not much will change. Greed, hate, supremacy etc will always be here.
I feel so sad for every human life that's ever been lost in this way. :frowning:

 

[Chris]

The only people I will point the finger of blame to are the bleeding heart left wingers who have pressured western governments into bending to their high horse and self centered beliefs. Up until 15-20 years ago, the western world never had problems until they started this almighty way of thinking of "we can't upset other religions" or "we have to consider other people who come from different countries." We went down that road and these people with evil intentions started to use the bleeding hearts against us. I bet the terrorists who immigrated to France promised to be law abiding citizens and wanted to start a new life. I bet Man Monis said the same thing when he came to Australia. Once we became to scared to offend outsiders in our country is when we gave these terrorist strength and opened up a weakness that they still use against us today.

On August 04, 2015, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, addressed the Duma,
(Russian Parliament), and gave a speech about the tensions with minorities in Russia:

In Russia, live like Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, it should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Sharia Law, and live the life of Muslim's then we advise them to go to those places where that's the state law.
Russia does not need Muslim minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell 'discrimination'. We will not tolerate disrespect of our Russian culture. We better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation. The Muslims are taking over those countries and they will not take over Russia. The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of Sharia Law and Muslims.
When this honourable legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the Russian national interest first, observing that the Muslims Minorities Are Not Russians. The politicians in the Duma gave Putin a five minute standing ovation.

This is a stance we should have taken back in the 80's. No, instead we allow imbeciles like Bob Brown and his moronic Green mates protect these evil bastards we have in Australia now. I'll bet anything that there wont be any terrorist attacks on Russian soil by ISIS or any Islamic groups.

 

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

It was not Bob Brown at all whom let the Muslims in, it was Mal Fraser against the advice of the Christian local Lebanese

 

[tsjonathan]

Is there a Syria thread? Nigeria? Lebanon? Yemeni? Palestinian (over 100 people die there everyday right?)?

 

[Chris]

It was not Bob Brown at all whom let the Muslims in, it was Mal Fraser against the advice of the Christian local Lebanese

I wasn't inferring that Bob Brown let them in, I meant that him and his ilk at the Greens were the catalysts to us losing our culture and way of life through fear of offending minority groups.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

Is there a Syria thread? Nigeria? Lebanon? Yemeni? Palestinian (over 100 people die there everyday right?)?

I think its really sad we only react to what is sold to us by the powers to be… As I stated earlier, IS have killed more Muslims than any other religion combined but no one is jumping up and down.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Is there a Syria thread? Nigeria? Lebanon? Yemeni? Palestinian (over 100 people die there everyday right?)?

I think its really sad we only react to what is sold to us by the powers to be… As I stated earlier, IS have killed more Muslims than any other religion combined but no one is jumping up and down.

There's footage this morning of people wounded and dying from the French bombing Syria but that's not important.