Patience....

[earl]

If Pole, Matamua, Bula etc are maintained, nurtured & surrounded by the right types of players- I think the club gets it right.

Good post. I think short term we need to recruit some quality but if we can develop good juniors we can get some success ala Penrith. Pole to me already looks like a good first grader. We need more though.

I also wonder how much of it is development compared to selecting the right players.

 

[The Chad]

I'm sorry, but you say a lot of fluffy, obvious and, occasionally, incorrect things. Of course we are all frustrated and, with good reason. Also, I think the Tiger forwards would be starting to feel frustrated. It's all the same old, same old every season. Lot's of preseason bluster then inevitable underperformance, questionable coaching, head scratching team selections and the miserable performance of our halves. Patience? I think we've all shown a massive amount of patience over a long, long time. Doueihi should not even be the fullback, either as the best player in the position or as an interim player for Bula. Both Staines and Laurie are better than him. Was Laurie dropped or did he lose his position due to injury? Apparently he trained in the halves in the off season so why isn't he being given a go at five eighth now? We all can see that Tigers go up and down the field and that they are clueless when they get into the opposition quarter. Do you really think Brooks and co will suddenly get better or that the coaches will miraculously unlock their rumoured potential? I have my doubts. I also have doubts whether many people on here have any remaining patience!

I think we all watched Laurie stand & let that bomb hit the ground in our in-goal in game 1. I'm pretty confident that is why he isn't at fullback ahead of Doueihi. Staines has never really shown the traits of a stand-out fullback. He's servicable. I think wing is his better spot. Doueihi at least offers some ball skill when joining the line.

Why isn't Laurie playing 5/8? Did we see how he went in training? The evidence suggests not great as Wakeham was signed a few weeks before the season kicked off. I think it's safe to say Laurie is on the outer with Sheens. No contract offer atm should signal the intentions there I suspect.

I don't think the coaches are going to unlock any of the 'potential' of players like Brooks etc. The potential is in the way the team plays. It's not necessarily about the individual player. Put it like this- Ivan Cleary didn't DEVELOP Luke Brooks the year he got Halfback of the Year. He just put him in a system that highlighted his skills. I think that is what Sheens is working toward. First step is getting us to at least attack from a decent part of the field. Hence the forward bias in our signings.

Totally understand people being frustrated & I'm not telling you to not be. I'm just suggesting that the process is in place & that regardless of your individual frustration, patience will be required.

 

[OzLuke]

Good post. I think short term we need to recruit some quality but if we can develop good juniors we can get some success ala Penrith. Pole to me already looks like a good first grader. We need more though.

I also wonder how much of it is development compared to selecting the right players.

There are promising signs from our juniors, Kepoa for mine has been the standout. There are signs of life, but it'll take time

 

[Kelce68]

I've seen the frustration levels rising with every week & every loss. I'm not here to say anybody is wrong, but looking at things in a slightly different way...

To me it currently feels like Sheens is sifting through his current Top 30 to see who stays on & who moves on. I don't think anyone at the club expects the team to win a premiership UNDER Sheens. I'd say the whole role for Sheens now is to get the best combination of players together in order for Benji to step into a squad ready to compete.

Nofoaluma has been dropped. Laurie is dropped. Mamaulo is moved on. Doueihi has been shifted to fullback. Some might see this as desperation, some might question why these moves were not made before the season started. My take- I don't think the coaching staff know EXACTLY who is to keep or not. They have recruited well, despite the results. And the players brought in will help in the development of players I think are already earmarked as long-term solutions: Utoikamanu, Pole, Matamua, Toupo, Kepoeoa & Simpkin.

I expect we see more of Pole, Matamua & Simpkin as the year goes on. Bula is already being talked about, and I'd say we see him before the year is out. Toupo & Kepoeoa are already locked in.

Where are we in terms of club development? I know everyone thinks of 2005. I'd say we are somewhere between 2003-2004, where Sheens removed a bunch of the longer term players & made room for the Marshall's, Farah's, Gibbs, Fulton, Halatau's while bringing in the likes of Hodgson, Prince etc to balance out what we already had.

He's now stated they want an 'experienced half' (I read either #7 or #6 when they say that). Moses was THE target. Pearce was a fallback option. The answer MIGHT be George Williams. Or Sezar. Or Luke Keary. But that doesn't mean they give up on Brooks immediately either. I strongly believe that Sheens/Marshall/Farah BELIEVE in club spirit & keeping 'the old boys' around. Brooks has always been a Tiger. Moses & Tedesco have already been targeted for a return. You build a club spirit through players coming through a club, and despite his struggles, Brooks IS a Tigers player. I think they value that. I don't believe you can question his dedication on the field. His results? Sure. But it's not a lack of effort. That's the difference between him & the other long-term Tiger, Nofoaluma, who you CAN question his efforts of late.

Doueihi's extension for a year & shift to fullback kind of looks perfect for the timeframe for Bula to become the starter. He may then move on, or even be looked at as a future centre or even an eventual shift back to 5/8. But for mine, he's now a place holder (and a good enough option TBH) at fullback until Bula is ready.

I think it will be interesting to see which players get extended playing time over the next few weeks. I'm pretty confident we will start seeing the younger players incorporated into the squad more & more.

I'm still not giving up on a solid 9th finish once the players get a handle on the newer style of play. The club isn't ONLY combatting the failures of youth in the squad, but the ghosts of 5-6 years of having focused on one style of play (that didn't work) and has seemingly eroded the confidence of players completely (here's looking at YOU Luke Brooks).

They look like a team that needs unshackling. They play frustrated, because they know what they want to do, but it's not clicking. The day it does- the Tigers will put a SCORE on someone. They move up & down the field well now. The forwards are laying that foundation. It's not a huge jump to go from there to adding additional pressure, to breaking teams resolve & then to taking advantage of that. Good sides get all of that together. We are not there yet. But, we NOW have the ability to move up & down the field.

Good post, mate.

 

[The Chad]

There are promising signs from our juniors, Kepoa for mine has been the standout. There are signs of life, but it'll take time

Agree- his overall development, and PHYSICAL development, have been noticable. Dude is a unit now. That back row position looks very suitable & you need that position flexibility he then provides for covering the backs too.

 

[Love_the_WestsTigers]

I've seen the frustration levels rising with every week & every loss. I'm not here to say anybody is wrong, but looking at things in a slightly different way...

To me it currently feels like Sheens is sifting through his current Top 30 to see who stays on & who moves on. I don't think anyone at the club expects the team to win a premiership UNDER Sheens. I'd say the whole role for Sheens now is to get the best combination of players together in order for Benji to step into a squad ready to compete.

Nofoaluma has been dropped. Laurie is dropped. Mamaulo is moved on. Doueihi has been shifted to fullback. Some might see this as desperation, some might question why these moves were not made before the season started. My take- I don't think the coaching staff know EXACTLY who is to keep or not. They have recruited well, despite the results. And the players brought in will help in the development of players I think are already earmarked as long-term solutions: Utoikamanu, Pole, Matamua, Toupo, Kepoeoa & Simpkin.

I expect we see more of Pole, Matamua & Simpkin as the year goes on. Bula is already being talked about, and I'd say we see him before the year is out. Toupo & Kepoeoa are already locked in.

Where are we in terms of club development? I know everyone thinks of 2005. I'd say we are somewhere between 2003-2004, where Sheens removed a bunch of the longer term players & made room for the Marshall's, Farah's, Gibbs, Fulton, Halatau's while bringing in the likes of Hodgson, Prince etc to balance out what we already had.

He's now stated they want an 'experienced half' (I read either #7 or #6 when they say that). Moses was THE target. Pearce was a fallback option. The answer MIGHT be George Williams. Or Sezar. Or Luke Keary. But that doesn't mean they give up on Brooks immediately either. I strongly believe that Sheens/Marshall/Farah BELIEVE in club spirit & keeping 'the old boys' around. Brooks has always been a Tiger. Moses & Tedesco have already been targeted for a return. You build a club spirit through players coming through a club, and despite his struggles, Brooks IS a Tigers player. I think they value that. I don't believe you can question his dedication on the field. His results? Sure. But it's not a lack of effort. That's the difference between him & the other long-term Tiger, Nofoaluma, who you CAN question his efforts of late.

Doueihi's extension for a year & shift to fullback kind of looks perfect for the timeframe for Bula to become the starter. He may then move on, or even be looked at as a future centre or even an eventual shift back to 5/8. But for mine, he's now a place holder (and a good enough option TBH) at fullback until Bula is ready.

I think it will be interesting to see which players get extended playing time over the next few weeks. I'm pretty confident we will start seeing the younger players incorporated into the squad more & more.

I'm still not giving up on a solid 9th finish once the players get a handle on the newer style of play. The club isn't ONLY combatting the failures of youth in the squad, but the ghosts of 5-6 years of having focused on one style of play (that didn't work) and has seemingly eroded the confidence of players completely (here's looking at YOU Luke Brooks).

They look like a team that needs unshackling. They play frustrated, because they know what they want to do, but it's not clicking. The day it does- the Tigers will put a SCORE on someone. They move up & down the field well now. The forwards are laying that foundation. It's not a huge jump to go from there to adding additional pressure, to breaking teams resolve & then to taking advantage of that. Good sides get all of that together. We are not there yet. But, we NOW have the ability to move up & down the field.

I agree with most points, in particular, the name of this thread.
Despite losing every game so far this season, im optimistic things will start to improve as time progresses.
Some people think because we have recruited well, we should be better. Over time we will be.
Noffa dropped is a good thing.
AD to fullback also is good, takes his intercept passes out of the game somewhat.
Brooks, yes, I’d still persevere with him. Just let him be him and get someone else to organise the team. He has skill and talent, just zero confidence atm.

Laurie, unluckyto be dropped. He hasn’t done much wrong but we can’t fit all them in at once. Once AD gets drppped Laurie will be in.

 

[Roar_Power]

It'll probably take a couple more.

In a rush to go somewhere else?

lol, I was in a rush 10 years ago. What’s another two!

 

[OzLuke]

I agree with most points, in particular, the name of this thread.
Despite losing every game so far this season, im optimistic things will start to improve as time progresses.
Some people think because we have recruited well, we should be better. Over time we will be.
Noffa dropped is a good thing.
AD to fullback also is good, takes his intercept passes out of the game somewhat.
Brooks, yes, I’d still persevere with him. Just let him be him and get someone else to organise the team. He has skill and talent, just zero confidence atm.

Laurie, unluckyto be dropped. He hasn’t done much wrong but we can’t fit all them in at once. Once AD gets drppped Laurie will be in.

Brooks certainly hasn't developed into the messiah everyone thought he would. but at trying to sign all these other experienced halves we are breaking the back to scratch out a win.
Say we did get Moses, first game he blew his knee out and is out for the season, loses some speed and agility etc...where does that leave us? With a huge chunk of money on the sideline...what would be our next plan?

 

[Bigtom]

Brooks certainly hasn't developed into the messiah everyone thought he would. but at trying to sign all these other experienced halves we are breaking the back to scratch out a win.
Say we did get Moses, first game he blew his knee out and is out for the season, loses some speed and agility etc...where does that leave us? With a huge chunk of money on the sideline...what would be our next plan?

 

[Bigtom]

And if my Aunty had balls…

 

[Flippedy]

Patience is just a dirty word…or is that ego? Either way, Tim & Benji have plenty of ego, but sadly I lost patience long ago.

 

[twentyforty]

It's easier to break a team's resolve when you are camped in the 20 instead of from halfway. Last year, halfway was about our finishing point on tackle 5. Now? We are usually in an attacking position. The more pressure you apply, the harder it is for the opposition to hold resolve...this is, of course, dependent on our attack forcing extra sets of six, breaking the line & of course, scoring. BUT...we are now at the least, in a position to do these things.

Yes good point Chad. We have shown some improvement in our ability to move down field. If we can sustained the pressure for long periods in opponents 20 then our chances of getting a win are increased. I think that’s what Hagipantelis was saying “we just need to increase our attack”.?

 

[twentyforty]

Patience is just a dirty word…or is that ego? Either way, Tim & Benji have plenty of ego, but sadly I lost patience long ago.

Patience is easily found when continued progress is evident.

 

[liltiger]

Even 2-2 would have been great.

Compared to where we are atm, I would happily take it.

 

[Odessa]

They play frustrated because they're playing to the 'game plan' but it is simply counter acted by the opposition.
We throw no deception at them... Our *All new whiz bang* style of attack has as much pizzaz as a cheese & lettuce sandwich

A bit like this one ?

 

[diedpretty]

you've made a lot of sensible comments. Yet if we retain Brooks after this year, maybe it's time to join the glass 1/2 empty crew.

I would think at worst we would only offer him a 1 yr extension if we can't jag someone to slot in to 7 for next year.

 

[Stevec]

Tigers fans are incredibly patient year after year after year
Coach after coach after coach
Brooks after Brooks after Brooks

 

[diedpretty]

If we had decent halves atm we could be 4 - 0

I agree - people saying we have recruited poorly surprises me. All the new signings have been great. Our forwards have been on top in every game but we cant capitalise on it. Its pretty obvious Sheens took a gamble on a lot of backline players who have been below NRL standard over the last couple of years. The only backs who should hold their place are Tupou, Naden, and possibly Kepoa and Staines. The rest have been woeful.

 

[diedpretty]

And if my Aunty had balls…

She'd be your uncle.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Good timing for this thread.

😭