Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[hammertime]

What mess are we in? Seriously, that is political spin that many members of the public have swallowed hook, line and sinker without even questioning the idea. This running out of money dribble has no economic merit.

If we are in such a mess why was the last Treasury bond issue fully-subscribed!

The Government is the monopoly issuer of its own currency. How can it ever run out!?

If you don't believe me, name me a country that has gone broke that issues its own currency and has a freely floating exchange rate?

You really should read the inter generational report. I've been at it on the forum well before Abbott was PM. And it's no just us, we need to think globally and protecting ourselves for a potential next collapse when all this comes to a head.

..and if you are suggesting just to print money,

1) inflation.
2) it's an indirect form of taxation anyway.

I'm not just suggesting the Government should print money. I'm suggesting that the Government can never run out.

Inflation occurs from rising prices, not from increasing the money supply. If an increase in money supply is accompanied by an increase in productive capability then there will be no inflation.

If there is no inflation then there is no inflation tax.

The idea that increases in money supply = automatic inflation is based on an economic theory with flawed assumptions that have weak empirical support.

An increase in the money supply alone will devalue each dollar and require people to charge more for any good to maintain the same purchasing power. Triggering inflation. Pretty simple in my mind.

Maybe you should go and tell the UK they don't need those pesky austerity measures. Keep spending! Just print more!

 

[Tim Sheens]

hopefully all of them…itrs their own fault. :wink:

"The whining makes me sick", just "another dope" that is "crying" about some uf us wanting virtual "Domin8tion" over the more vulnerable.

"Read between the lines you clown", this world revolves around "me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me".

 

[mremedy]

What mess are we in? Seriously, that is political spin that many members of the public have swallowed hook, line and sinker without even questioning the idea. This running out of money dribble has no economic merit.

If we are in such a mess why was the last Treasury bond issue fully-subscribed!

The Government is the monopoly issuer of its own currency. How can it ever run out!?

If you don't believe me, name me a country that has gone broke that issues its own currency and has a freely floating exchange rate?

You really should read the inter generational report. I've been at it on the forum well before Abbott was PM. And it's no just us, we need to think globally and protecting ourselves for a potential next collapse when all this comes to a head.

..and if you are suggesting just to print money,

1) inflation.
2) it's an indirect form of taxation anyway.

I'm not just suggesting the Government should print money. I'm suggesting that the Government can never run out.

Inflation occurs from rising prices, not from increasing the money supply. If an increase in money supply is accompanied by an increase in productive capability then there will be no inflation.

If there is no inflation then there is no inflation tax.

The idea that increases in money supply = automatic inflation is based on an economic theory with flawed assumptions that have weak empirical support.

An increase in the money supply alone will devalue each dollar and require people to charge more for any good to maintain the same purchasing power. Triggering inflation. Pretty simple in my mind.

Maybe you should go and tell the UK they don't need those pesky austerity measures. Keep spending! Just print more!

I'll start with an analogy to explain why it is not as simple as you suggest.

Lets say you own shares in a company. This company has 100 shares and is worth $100\. Each share is worth $1\. The company prints 5 shares and sells them for $0.50\. In this case there are 105 shares and the company is only worth $102.50, the value of each share will decrease. However if the company uses the extra $2.50 and invests in a positive net present value investment of say $7.50, then the value of the company would increase to $110 and there would only be 105 shares.

In the above case shares would increase in value not decrease as you suggest.

If Governments increase the money supply but at the same time increase the productive capacity of the economy, i.e invest in roads, ports, education, health, then this would encourage foreign investment, increasing the AUD internationally. Domestically, if the Government investment increases supply, this reduces input prices putting downward pressure on prices.

Printing money does not equal inflation. It all depends on what the Government does with the newly minted money.

If the economy is a full employment, then increasing money supply will equal inflation. If we are not at full employment increasing the money supply does not equal inflation.

 

[Flippedy]

Makes me so proud lol

http://www.seafm.com.au/centralcoast/scoopla/trending-now/blog/2014/6/tony-abbott-gets-a-roasting-on-us-tv/

 

[Tim Sheens]

Heard a snippet that Alan Jones copped a gobfull from a Liberal front bencher. Wow, seems nothing is impossible.

Col, you seem to listen to the program, maybe you can fill us in on the details?

 

[Glen_McWilliams]

Makes me so proud lol

http://www.seafm.com.au/centralcoast/scoopla/trending-now/blog/2014/6/tony-abbott-gets-a-roasting-on-us-tv/

I laughed. Because if you don't, you will cry.

 

[Flippedy]

Heard a snippet that Alan Jones copped a gobfull from a Liberal front bencher. Wow, seems nothing is impossible.

Col, you seem to listen to the program, maybe you can fill us in on the details?

Wow, and this after Turnbull giving it to Andrew Bolt! Seems things might be changing for the better.

 

[TJL]

Makes me so proud lol

http://www.seafm.com.au/centralcoast/scoopla/trending-now/blog/2014/6/tony-abbott-gets-a-roasting-on-us-tv/

The old bloke at the end summed him up perfectly.

Here's Tony's new t-shirt -


 

[Illek]

Whilst not a fan of the budget due to its sacrifices on education I do feel the reactions of the public are interesting.

I do feel that for many people the pension has been seen as a safety net. There was the sense that you could just spend your money and later in life it wouldn't matter as the governments pension should support you. Honestly if you have reached 70, have no assets or no savings than you have been living outside your means. If you cannot afford to support 4-5 children, than have 2\. People need to understand that you live within your means.

I completely agree with CBs view as well. I stayed at home and travelled 4 hours a day on public transport to attend uni for 8 years, worked part time and didn't go out boozing friday and saturday night so I could work and save money. Many of my friends spent their money on travelling overseas, drinking and moved into the inner city as it was easier to party. I now get the same feedback that I am lucky, always had money etc but most people just aren't willing to sacrifice in the short term for long term gains.

Certain people in society do deserve significant support. If you have mental illness or disabilities, working can be too difficult to maintain and some people do need a small assistance to help them through tough situations I don't deny that. Generations of welfare exploiters however need to have a culture of working instilled within them, not of handouts. I personally feel that a significant amount of the money invested into centrelink payments should be redistributed into education to help break the cycle for the next generation of those families. I guess the problem is how to effectively reach them, when within the family structure there can be a negative influence on any signs of aspiration to achieve something.

It is optimistic to feel that there is an easy fix for these deeper societal problems, but unfortunately this is happening almost uniformly in the developed world. In the 3rd world laziness leads to lack of survival yet they face other societal problems such as exploiting other people for your own financial gain. I do not feel any government has a solution for these, just that other governments feel more willing to try and think laterally or take more risks to find solutions, whilst in Australia we seem to become more conservative and hope that this solves the issue.

 

[Winnipeg]

1\. Abbott built his whole empire on telling people he was going to fix everything with no economic pain for anyone. That's why people are so angry at the budget. The only surprising thing is how many people bought the snake oil that was on sale.

People aren't buying the 'we all need to take a bit of pain' argument because it is complete kaka. Miners and filthy rich superannuants do very well out of this government. So do school chaplains and private colleges.

2\. The 'welfare is out of control' argument is pretty paper thin when you look at the actual numbers

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-05/jericho-disability-support-pension/5297540

 

[Tiger_Watto]

Labor will fix it next election… Australia has a Credit Card!

 

[mremedy]

Labor will fix it next election… Australia has a Credit Card!

Firstly, my comments are not directed at you exclusively Tiger Watto, they are directed at the whole idea that deficit spending is evil.

Secondly, I stress that my comments are not about ideology, they are about economics.

I encourage everybody to look at this short YouTube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V6-GnsvcG0

The focus of the video is Paul Samuelson's (Nobel Prize winner in economics) comments regarding a balance budget. In particular that the need to balance budgets are a myth.

Government budgets, that have a floating currency such as ours are nothing like corporations and households. If you ever hear somebody comparing a Government budget to a household they either have no clue about how a Government budget works or they are trying to scare you into believing their argument.

It is never about how much is spent, it is about what it is spent on and at what period of the business cycle it is spent over.

 

[Tim Sheens]

RIP Gough

 

[Yossarian]

Yep. And good ole Alan Jones couldn't help himself but that's okay - there will be plenty of people to piss on his grave when the time comes.

 

[Flippedy]

Yep. And good ole Alan Jones couldn't help himself but that's okay - there will be plenty of people to piss on his grave when the time comes.

What did the foul-mouthed cretin say now, Yoss?

 

[happy_tiger]

Yep. And good ole Alan Jones couldn't help himself but that's okay - there will be plenty of people to piss on his grave when the time comes.

What did the foul-mouthed cretin say now, Yoss?

Anything to boost his ratings Flip

Same as Carlton , Hadley or any other radio joke (sorry jock )

 

[Flippedy]

Yep. And good ole Alan Jones couldn't help himself but that's okay - there will be plenty of people to piss on his grave when the time comes.

What did the foul-mouthed cretin say now, Yoss?

Anything to boost his ratings Flip

Same as Carlton , Hadley or any other radio joke (sorry jock )

That the vitriol he spews causes his ratings to go up is a really sad reflection on our society.

 

[Yossarian]

Yep. And good ole Alan Jones couldn't help himself but that's okay - there will be plenty of people to piss on his grave when the time comes.

What did the foul-mouthed cretin say now, Yoss?

Here's the summary. Obviously I don't waste my time listening to his show.

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/damaging-costly-transformative-how-the-right-remembered-gough-whitlam-20141021-1193s8.html

 

[Flippedy]

Yep. And good ole Alan Jones couldn't help himself but that's okay - there will be plenty of people to piss on his grave when the time comes.

What did the foul-mouthed cretin say now, Yoss?

Here's the summary. Obviously I don't waste my time listening to his show.

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/damaging-costly-transformative-how-the-right-remembered-gough-whitlam-20141021-1193s8.html

Thanks Yoss. Jones really is an uncompassionate fool, who finds it impossible to see outside his box of rich, white male privilege. It would be a real shame for him if he ever fell on hard times.

 

[Winnipeg]

This thread certainly fell on hard times, it can barely raise a post these days!

I guess it's because Tony Abbott is doing such an A1 job, restoring dignity to the parliament, putting the adults back in charge, ending the deceit, getting the budget back on track, etc etc.

wait, what?