Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

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@Abraham said:
@Cultured Bogan said:
On the article itself, depsite being pro-renewables I do agree Abe. I can't see why it is so hard for someone to calculate how much infrastructure is required to meet their targets and then seek cost estimates based on that information, and then calculate payback and reduction in carbon footprint.

They refuse to release the costings because of the political massacre that would take place on election day if they did.

As much as everyone wants to look after the environment, no one will do so at the expense of the economy, their jobs, or the significant hit their wallets will likely take as a result of these policies.

And the next inevitable question would be: How much will we reduce the temperature by, if we implement these expensive and unreliable energy policies?

They can't answer that question either.
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@Cultured Bogan said:
As I've already said, a good interim high yield alternative is nuclear, for some reason we're staunchly anti-nuclear because the Soviets were incompetent 30 years ago and the Japanese built a power plant on a patch of dirt prone to earthquakes and tsunami.

Happy to build nuclear plants if they can produce a reliable source of power.

In the interim however, we have such abundant gas and coal reserves in this country, that we should have the cheapest power bills in the world. Quite literally.

The fact we don't take advantage of it the same way that other countries do, is a scandal in itself.

Nuclear is an expensive start up cost, but it is clean in that it is emission free and the yield per kg is something like 14,000 times that of coal.

If my maths is right, working off the delivered cost per kg of either unit, coal is something like $46 per tonne (so 4.6c per kg,) and uranium is $55 per kg for easily accessible resources (cost can escalate up to $146 per kg.) Working off yield at a ratio of 14,000:1, coal is $644 per 14 tonnes to match that $55 kg of uranium to generate 45,000kWh of electricity.

When you're sitting on 30% of the world's uranium deposits it's a no brainer.
 
@Byron Bay Fan said:
@Abraham said:
This troupe of clowns cant even tell us what these ridiculous policies will cost us… Yet they still want us to vote for them.

Would anybody buy a house or car, or anything for that matter, without knowing what the cost was, or what benefits it would provide them?

This is imbecility of the highest order.

Well I can vouch for Solahart, had for a few years. Has cut the fuel bill remarkably and will pay off capital by time the guarantee is up I expect. Then will be saving heaps as well as help save the environment. So will the country be saving as not need to invest in new power plants and less heat waves etc. that are also a drain on the economy.

As well as bikeways instead of motorways will saves us tonnes on health bill, fuel and construction of motorways.

As simple as the nose on our faces

WOW!!!!! Less heat waves and I can ride my bike to Byron Bay for a holiday.
\
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:crazy :crazy :crazy :roll :roll
 
@formerguest said:
I am quite happy (and was when paying a carbon tax) to have a lighter wallet if it gives even a little hope to the young and future generations to live in a healthy world.

I see it similarly to insurance, in that it may not be necessary, but with the potential of great cost and hardship it is just not worth the risk. It is time for our one species to stop taking advantage of the world we share at the expense of all the others.

Australia's output of pollutants is equivalent to literally a pin prick on the arse of an elephant.

So you're happy to work hard for your money, only to pay it to the government to implement a plan that will have no tangible impact on the environment, the temperature, or any other facet that will impact on your kids or grandkids lives?

If someone could say to me if we do X, Y, Z and it will cost you $–, and the outcome will be this, then i'd be happy to contribute.

But paying for a scheme where the people devising it cannot answer basic questions as to costs, outcomes, or impacts is insanity. May as well blow your dough on some magic beans or something.
 
@Cultured Bogan said:
Nuclear is an expensive start up cost, but it is clean in that it is emission free and the yield per kg is something like 14,000 times that of coal.

If my maths is right, working off the delivered cost per kg of either unit, coal is something like $46 per tonne (so 4.6c per kg,) and uranium is $55 per kg for easily accessible resources (cost can escalate up to $146 per kg.) Working off yield at a ratio of 14,000:1, coal is $644 per 14 tonnes to match that $55 kg of uranium to generate 45,000kWh of electricity.

When you're sitting on 30% of the world's uranium deposits it's a no brainer.

It will be a number of generations before the stigma associated with Nuclear Energy changes somewhat.

Question: where do u store the nuclear waste?
 
@Abraham said:
@Cultured Bogan said:
Nuclear is an expensive start up cost, but it is clean in that it is emission free and the yield per kg is something like 14,000 times that of coal.

If my maths is right, working off the delivered cost per kg of either unit, coal is something like $46 per tonne (so 4.6c per kg,) and uranium is $55 per kg for easily accessible resources (cost can escalate up to $146 per kg.) Working off yield at a ratio of 14,000:1, coal is $644 per 14 tonnes to match that $55 kg of uranium to generate 45,000kWh of electricity.

When you're sitting on 30% of the world's uranium deposits it's a no brainer.

It will be a number of generations before the stigma associated with Nuclear Energy changes somewhat.

Question: where do u store the nuclear waste?

We currently store low level nuclear waste from the Lucas Heights plant and I think we're in talks of storing waste from nuclear power states. If we're storing theirs I don't see why finding room for our own would be a problem.
 
@magpiecol said:
@Byron Bay Fan said:
@Abraham said:
This troupe of clowns cant even tell us what these ridiculous policies will cost us… Yet they still want us to vote for them.

Would anybody buy a house or car, or anything for that matter, without knowing what the cost was, or what benefits it would provide them?

This is imbecility of the highest order.

Well I can vouch for Solahart, had for a few years. Has cut the fuel bill remarkably and will pay off capital by time the guarantee is up I expect. Then will be saving heaps as well as help save the environment. So will the country be saving as not need to invest in new power plants and less heat waves etc. that are also a drain on the economy.

As well as bikeways instead of motorways will saves us tonnes on health bill, fuel and construction of motorways.

As simple as the nose on our faces

WOW!!!!! Less heat waves and I can ride my bike to Byron Bay for a holiday.
\
\
:crazy :crazy :crazy :roll :roll

Would do a world of good if you got many mates to join you. I am currently planning a cycling trip from Sydney to Byron with my son. I will stop overnight at every chess club and surfing beach in between, plus few friends and relos places along the way. I did a similar holiday 50 years ago this year. Will be great sharing the experience with my son.
 
@Byron Bay Fan said:
@magpiecol said:
@Byron Bay Fan said:
@Abraham said:
This troupe of clowns cant even tell us what these ridiculous policies will cost us… Yet they still want us to vote for them.

Would anybody buy a house or car, or anything for that matter, without knowing what the cost was, or what benefits it would provide them?

This is imbecility of the highest order.

Well I can vouch for Solahart, had for a few years. Has cut the fuel bill remarkably and will pay off capital by time the guarantee is up I expect. Then will be saving heaps as well as help save the environment. So will the country be saving as not need to invest in new power plants and less heat waves etc. that are also a drain on the economy.

As well as bikeways instead of motorways will saves us tonnes on health bill, fuel and construction of motorways.

As simple as the nose on our faces

WOW!!!!! Less heat waves and I can ride my bike to Byron Bay for a holiday.
\
\
:crazy :crazy :crazy :roll :roll

Would do a world of good if you got many mates to join you. I am currently planning a cycling trip from Sydney to Byron with my son. I will stop overnight at every chess club and surfing beach in between, plus few friends and relos places along the way. I did a similar holiday 50 years ago this year. Will be great sharing the experience with my son.

Sounds great bbf. But if you had about 2 million bikes doing the same thing it may well be different.
 
@magpiecol said:
@Byron Bay Fan said:
@magpiecol said:
@Byron Bay Fan said:
Well I can vouch for Solahart, had for a few years. Has cut the fuel bill remarkably and will pay off capital by time the guarantee is up I expect. Then will be saving heaps as well as help save the environment. So will the country be saving as not need to invest in new power plants and less heat waves etc. that are also a drain on the economy.

As well as bikeways instead of motorways will saves us tonnes on health bill, fuel and construction of motorways.

As simple as the nose on our faces

WOW!!!!! Less heat waves and I can ride my bike to Byron Bay for a holiday.
\
\
:crazy :crazy :crazy :roll :roll

Would do a world of good if you got many mates to join you. I am currently planning a cycling trip from Sydney to Byron with my son. I will stop overnight at every chess club and surfing beach in between, plus few friends and relos places along the way. I did a similar holiday 50 years ago this year. Will be great sharing the experience with my son.

Sounds great bbf. But if you had about 2 million bikes doing the same thing it may well be different.

It would be so fantastic - because it meant there would have been a complete mind shift in the population.

Unfortunately our road transport has been designed virtually solely for motor vehicles for the past 50 years. So with 2 million bikes they have no choice and the right to take over most of the traffic lanes coming up north. Many of course would take the old highway to have more stops and being more interesting meeting up with country cousins etc..

The only good thing the motorways did was to level a lot of big hills/mountains also making it easier for bikes. There would be fantastic personal contact as can chat to all and sundry whilst cycling - instead of trying to run each off the roads with vehicles. A head on crash would be a laugh off after a few chosen words. Bikes could be repaired on the spot. No millions of litres of petrol burnt causing pollution and blowing out our balance of trade balances. How many big guts would disappear? It would begin a whole new way of life for many. They would be throwing away unnecessary medications by journeys end.
 
@Abraham said:
@formerguest said:
I am quite happy (and was when paying a carbon tax) to have a lighter wallet if it gives even a little hope to the young and future generations to live in a healthy world.

I see it similarly to insurance, in that it may not be necessary, but with the potential of great cost and hardship it is just not worth the risk. It is time for our one species to stop taking advantage of the world we share at the expense of all the others.

Australia's output of pollutants is equivalent to literally a pin prick on the arse of an elephant.

So you're happy to work hard for your money, only to pay it to the government to implement a plan that will have no tangible impact on the environment, the temperature, or any other facet that will impact on your kids or grandkids lives?

If someone could say to me if we do X, Y, Z and it will cost you $–, and the outcome will be this, then i'd be happy to contribute.

But paying for a scheme where the people devising it cannot answer basic questions as to costs, outcomes, or impacts is insanity. May as well blow your dough on some magic beans or something.

x2

IMHO, hydro and nuclear shall be Aus energy goals.
Wind and solar are too unreliable (thanks comrade Jay :brick: ), and cannot (ATM) cover the base load.

Hydro in N Territory, N Qld, and Tas would not just solve energy needs but help with flooding/drought, farming - more new jobs.

Nuclear - I prefer thorium generators, but uranium generators are now developed and understood technology (ever heard of any issues with French generators?? )

Nuclear waste shall be stored in unpopulated parts of SA, WA, N Territory deserts.
 
About solar being unreliable. The recent spikes and breakdowns in SA electricity were due to heat wave conditions and everyone jacking up the aircon. Well when the heatwaves is on one would imagine would be a very good time for solar electricity to power those aircons as well providing hot water. So day and night time power station usage would be down freeing up capacity for other applications as well as depleting the necessity to provide now power stations that cost a fortune.
 
Wind power can be suspect also;

By political editor Chris Uhlmann
Updated 19 Oct 2016, 7:24pm

The Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) has found that the sudden and unexpected loss of half of South Australia's wind power in the midst of the severe storm on September 28 was a key event in the state-wide blackout

More SA blackouts will tarnish wind power's reputation. To date, the events of September 28 show that this column's questions were all well founded, particularly its focus on the asynchronous nature of wind power.

They were raised because ignoring the problems associated with integrating renewables into the National Electricity Market is a badge of wilful ignorance, not honour.

If there are more blackouts in South Australia, wind energy will suffer reputational damage that will ricochet around the nation and derail the decarbonisation of the grid.
 
@Abraham said:
@Cultured Bogan said:
Nuclear is an expensive start up cost, but it is clean in that it is emission free and the yield per kg is something like 14,000 times that of coal.

If my maths is right, working off the delivered cost per kg of either unit, coal is something like $46 per tonne (so 4.6c per kg,) and uranium is $55 per kg for easily accessible resources (cost can escalate up to $146 per kg.) Working off yield at a ratio of 14,000:1, coal is $644 per 14 tonnes to match that $55 kg of uranium to generate 45,000kWh of electricity.

When you're sitting on 30% of the world's uranium deposits it's a no brainer.

It will be a number of generations before the stigma associated with Nuclear Energy changes somewhat.

Question: where do u store the nuclear waste?

In barrels in a disused bank in south Australia. Hang on, South Australians store other things there.
 
@Abraham said:
@Cultured Bogan said:
Nuclear is an expensive start up cost, but it is clean in that it is emission free and the yield per kg is something like 14,000 times that of coal.

If my maths is right, working off the delivered cost per kg of either unit, coal is something like $46 per tonne (so 4.6c per kg,) and uranium is $55 per kg for easily accessible resources (cost can escalate up to $146 per kg.) Working off yield at a ratio of 14,000:1, coal is $644 per 14 tonnes to match that $55 kg of uranium to generate 45,000kWh of electricity.

When you're sitting on 30% of the world's uranium deposits it's a no brainer.

It will be a number of generations before the stigma associated with Nuclear Energy changes somewhat.

Question: where do u store the nuclear waste?

Kogarah , Brookvale Oval ,Belmore , Henson Park ,Redfern , Parra Stadium
 
Almost all casual workers I have discussed OT rates with in Byron, their restaurants charge a surcharge on Sunday but fails to pay overtime to their workers that the surcharge is supposedly cover. So managers are overcharging on weekends but blaming their workers' OT wages that are not being paid.
 
@Byron Bay Fan said:
Almost all casual workers I have discussed OT rates with in Byron, their restaurants charge a surcharge on Sunday but fails to pay overtime to their workers that the surcharge is supposedly cover. So managers are overcharging on weekends but blaming their workers' OT wages that are not being paid.

Now they wont have an excuse to charge the surcharge, so thats a win for consumers :smiley:
 
@Tiger Watto said:
@Byron Bay Fan said:
Almost all casual workers I have discussed OT rates with in Byron, their restaurants charge a surcharge on Sunday but fails to pay overtime to their workers that the surcharge is supposedly cover. So managers are overcharging on weekends but blaming their workers' OT wages that are not being paid.

Now they wont have an excuse to charge the surcharge, so thats a win for consumers :smiley:

According to some HR people I know it is still on the table , but there will have to be a trade off
 
@Byron Bay Fan said:
Unfortunately our road transport has been designed virtually solely for motor vehicles for the past 50 years. So with 2 million bikes they have no choice and the right to take over most of the traffic lanes coming up north. Many of course would take the old highway to have more stops and being more interesting meeting up with country cousins etc..

The only good thing the motorways did was to level a lot of big hills/mountains also making it easier for bikes. There would be fantastic personal contact as can chat to all and sundry whilst cycling - instead of trying to run each off the roads with vehicles. A head on crash would be a laugh off after a few chosen words. Bikes could be repaired on the spot. No millions of litres of petrol burnt causing pollution and blowing out our balance of trade balances. How many big guts would disappear? It would begin a whole new way of life for many. They would be throwing away unnecessary medications by journeys end.

2 million more bikes on the road?
Time to make a bigger bullbar then.
 
@stryker said:
@Byron Bay Fan said:
Unfortunately our road transport has been designed virtually solely for motor vehicles for the past 50 years. So with 2 million bikes they have no choice and the right to take over most of the traffic lanes coming up north. Many of course would take the old highway to have more stops and being more interesting meeting up with country cousins etc..

The only good thing the motorways did was to level a lot of big hills/mountains also making it easier for bikes. There would be fantastic personal contact as can chat to all and sundry whilst cycling - instead of trying to run each off the roads with vehicles. A head on crash would be a laugh off after a few chosen words. Bikes could be repaired on the spot. No millions of litres of petrol burnt causing pollution and blowing out our balance of trade balances. How many big guts would disappear? It would begin a whole new way of life for many. They would be throwing away unnecessary medications by journeys end.

2 million more bikes on the road?
Time to make a bigger bullbar then.

The value for running a cyclist over would drop to less than the amount of running a cane toad over

You'd have to run over big groups of them over to make it worth it
 
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