A
alien
Guest
@citizen cub said:
Weaken our borders? The Greens don't believe in borders at all!
Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here
- Thread starter Kul
- Start date
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Weaken our borders? The Greens don't believe in borders at all!
@Mighty Tiger said:
I wouldnt say that that is necessarily the case but….
Without a cost benefit analysis, business plan or risk assessment on the propossal I think that if Labor get back in they should suspend the build and have a darn good look at things. Remember that a senate inquiry into the NBN came to the conclussion that the NBN in its current form should be scrapped.
In theorey the Labor plan will be more beneficial than the Coalitions and wont require any future up grades making it futureproof. However, as with all well meaning ideas, they are often hard to convert into practicality.
Optic fibre v copper cable is a no brainer - fibre kicks its butt, but when it comes to installation, Labors plan is going to be almost impossible to complete. When you think of how many billions of meters of OF cable we will need to get the install completed to every homes boundary in the country it is a scarily daunting task that I cant see getting done anywhere near $43B promissed. It's going to be a lot more than that....how much is the question.
The Coalitions plan is a lot more achievable as it uses existing infrastructure, still quite a fair bit of new OF cabling, satelite technology to the very remotest of populations and will be an incremental upgrade of the system. They are still promissing 100mbps to densely populated centers and 12mbps for the rest. They are also going with wireless broadband technology and whilst it isnt as fast as Fibre, it is getting quicker all the time. The trade off for speed...and a good one IMO...is mobility. This is a huge convienience in this day and age.
Stephen Conroy and Kevin Rudd also had plans for a mandatory internet filter at the exchange which is yet to be proven wont impair the internets performance but more scarily could result in the overblocking of sites.
What I would really like changed though is that Labors NBN company wasnt in charge of such a massive project. It is looking like being a beauracratic government monopoly full of Labor stooges like Mike Kaiser who was Anna Blighs chief of staff in another life.
At the end of the day I think that while not as impressive, the coalitions $6.25B plan will be the way to go at the moment as the GFC we just went through will be nothing compared to the one yet to happen.
I didnt manage to catch much of the election night presentation but I did have to smile when this happened to Wayne swan:
http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/9raw-swan-holds-lilley-grilled-by-joyce/xveug3v" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Lol they didnt hold back! Michael Kroger absolutely smashed him and then came..Barnaby. :laughing:
http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/9raw-swan-holds-lilley-grilled-by-joyce/xveug3v" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Lol they didnt hold back! Michael Kroger absolutely smashed him and then came..Barnaby. :laughing:
A
alien
Guest
@stryker said:
:laughing: Yeah I was watching that live on election night. He still won his seat though didn't he, even thought there was a big swing against him.
hammertime
Well-known member
@Cultured Bogan said:
These guys were Nationals previously. If you had a bloke who did a great job as a National and thought he continued to stand for relatively the same thing, of course you would continue to vote for him rather than a big party. Independents usually have more power, it's just that some electorates realize this and have a viable candidate to vote for.
I know I would have voted for a Liberal leaning independent this election if there was one in my electorate..
hammertime
Well-known member
The problem also with the Fibre rollout is that no one currently knows how long Optical Fibre lasts for before it degrades. We talk about upgrades to increase the capacity, but what about the risk that we have to relay the cable.
I've heard quotes about 15 years… which could be scary if that's true.
I've heard quotes about 15 years… which could be scary if that's true.
Mighty_Tiger
Well-known member
The below will probably bore alot of people here so apologise if I have, I apologise stryker if my comments appeared abrupt but when I read what people write about NBN compared to the LNP solution it really irks me that people base their views on what they read in the media or what people who back the LNP to the hilt want to spin who actually aren't as well informed as they should be prior to spinning the crap they do (much is life unfortunately). Difference is NBN is in the field I work in so it gets to me more than other things do.
Do I support NBN? to a degree, it is the best option for the country from a viewpoint with Medical, Law enforcement, educational - from a housing perspective I wish they would re-evaluate areas which actually this would benefit and possibly offer an extended reach solution however the positives are the advancements it allows and new opportunities it creates in years/decades to come (work from home - many people work harder at home funny enough, allowance for a skilled worker to operate from rural/interstate instead of direct in an office environment having to relocate etc). I'm often critical of governments for not thinking longterm and well this definitely is a long term approach. The other benefit is that this is government owned meaning it should be for the people and not provided by Telstra who have to look after their shareholders interest 1st and foremost. I'm a network architect (not for NBN) transmission is my background but of late have spent alot of time in the voice & ip infrastructure space given the rapid rate we are moving towards IP based solutions instead of the traditional ATM backhauls which for the last 5yrs especially has seen a large push in this country to fibre backhauls anyway.
On to the topic and regarding the costs of materials this is based on a variety of estimates for example the contractors costs based on the rate which NBN advise is the going rate simular to materials used by NDC contractors (Testra & Optus) etc this costing is based on per tender process, each process takes around 2-4weeks to submit then agree apparently, it is quicker than what Telstra operates under because they want the work done and size of the work required (shores up work for some contractors), most regional areas apparently aren't running on the same tender nor are the same contractors being used so price estimates won't be deemed valid, further to this it is also dependant on companies like Telstra & AAPT who are mainly investing in their own fibre infrastructure, NBN won't request provisions of fibre rollout in areas which already has fibre so essentially this could infact decrease the estimate given over the years as well (AAPT for instance just worked on a Nth QLD route and have some of the biggest branches in CBD areas already due to their agreement with energy companies to use the free space in conduits.ducts which bypass the council approval delays and costs). So as to it exceeding just on materials isn't something that realistically anyone should profess to know since it isn't available and honestly wouldn't be available as NBN / Government don't know the forecasted plans of AAPT, Telstra, Pipe etc as such could only relay their worst case scenario figures which again would be pointless to put across due to the other companies rolling this out.
LNP policy has very dramatic flaws in it which haven't been highlighted since after all their policy hasn't been pushed to the senate and they haven't actually sat down with anyone yet to nut out whats required. The costs they predicted will blow out, as to how much directly (being within 3-8 years) is one thing but the costs will also have to be ongoing and it's solution is only a short term view that is being presented.
The LNP solution won't create mass jobs, the big telcos who would support it have call centre staff, have engineers, have contractors who move across the land on their behalf and won't provide infrastructure support which this country needs, it will provide cost fundings on requirements which in the past Telstra will head to in ways which it deems it has to, they won't be pushed nor will any other Telco to grab the business as they don't have the available infrastructure or costing budget flexibility to focus on those areas outside of their own interests. Telco's won't do anything at a cost to them, they will do it for profit purposes. You only have to look at phone services to see where the buck stops currently and the views from a Telco perspective - there isn't profits to be made in country rollouts so the bare minimum will be done.
Going the Wireless approach will require numerous points created across the place, not hundreds, your talking given our national expansion 10s of thousands, their is already cancer concerns (yes people still panic about these), land acquisition, backhaul implementation (which will have to be fibre), then upgrades to existing infrastructure to support the expansion, vendor agreements and the list goes on to be rolled out. Only have to look at what happened to TelecomNZ as to why this isn't a great idea and they don't have the distance between communities or residential locations we have here. They did purchase large chunks of equipment and decoders to try and expand on the quality and speeds given which backfired at a large cost.
Going the Sat option …. hmmm ok this one isn't great and puts people in a position they are already in. You can often struggle to get over 50kbps upstream let alone the so called 256/512kbps downstream offerings around the place in remote areas. On top of this going down the path of Sat in the wet seasons in those areas means zero internet option due to cloud coverage, during peak temp conditions it also can distort the signal and cause issues etc sure you have software packages that are meant to roam to selected zones such as directpc but reallity is as a future option this really is just a toilet paper offering and the LNP way to continue wiping their bum of the guys in the bush.
As to copper well when it was talked about rolling ADSL2+ to regional areas I nearly fell off my chair, Telstra currently has an over 2yr waiting list for metro replacement, this is in some areas over 6yrs outside the 30km zone of metro regions, this length of time grows each month and won't improve unless massive amounts of money is thrown to upgrade this network, it isn't weather tolerant unless you have great protection and in the country/rural areas this won't be an option, the speeds can change with the wind (literally,) then you get cross talk concerns with radio frequencies etc, soldering of joins is often a concern if underground and put protection is another kettle of fish, it would require far more assistance to repair and maintain than other sources provided. Further to this there is a reason why 9billion was thrown at Telstra and why they focus most of their network strategy around fibre and off copper
Who will fund the above not just to implement, not just to maintain the implementation but also to maintain and provide assurance requirements in the years to come? Us of course and it won't be a very pretty cost either, sure might be cheaper than NBN but it will be ongoing and for what real benefit? It is also short term viewability. What I mean by this it isn't a solution that can last decades it's something to last this decade if that.
Further to above Networks require upgrades and often. These often occur within 3yrs as most vendor agreements aren't agreed much beyond this these days due to advancement in technology. This covers IT based (application or servers as IT plays a massive roll in the Telco environment currently), this could also lead to software upgrades (regression testing etc) and then of course possible hardware upgrade replacements (vendors supply new cards that don't fit the equipment in the field this changes yearly with some vendors). Vendor support costs alone cost millions and to offer new features it often requires software upgrades which also costs millions to support, you add more nodes into the network it costs more again, not less. Your not just talking vendor agreement/support costs but also costs for the telco engineers, support documentation, regression testing of existing products and new product releases etc - it is a large expense to manage
Regarding NBN approach as a negative in a GFC, I actually don't agree given the jobs that this will create (there is already 180+ people directly on the payroll), you have expansion of workforce such as IT, Billing, Marketing Wholsale and Retail, call center staff, assurance staff, engineers (voice, ip, transmission, field), field staff to support the engineers, carrier & vendor, provisioning staff etc, then the thousands of contractors that will be working on this, then you have electricians who's work would increase due to internal cabling of houses, then there is hardware replacements which will see people move to the retail outlets to get a new TV, new router, new PC, new air conditioner to hook up to smart wiring abilities, new phones, the list goes on all to try and sap some of the features offered over time off this network further enhancing the economy which would be a positive thing not negative.
Fibre whilst yes is costly, it is something you only have to put in once and lasts decades, it is weather tolerant (they have cables running under the oceans, they have it running over deserts) and further to this they won't be rolling this to areas in which fibre is already located and will be located as the years go on. It is also an investment owned by the country which again is something that is appealing to alot of people. This counts to those in the bush who got burnt more than most when Telstra was sold.
Thats just my thoughts on the topic
Do I support NBN? to a degree, it is the best option for the country from a viewpoint with Medical, Law enforcement, educational - from a housing perspective I wish they would re-evaluate areas which actually this would benefit and possibly offer an extended reach solution however the positives are the advancements it allows and new opportunities it creates in years/decades to come (work from home - many people work harder at home funny enough, allowance for a skilled worker to operate from rural/interstate instead of direct in an office environment having to relocate etc). I'm often critical of governments for not thinking longterm and well this definitely is a long term approach. The other benefit is that this is government owned meaning it should be for the people and not provided by Telstra who have to look after their shareholders interest 1st and foremost. I'm a network architect (not for NBN) transmission is my background but of late have spent alot of time in the voice & ip infrastructure space given the rapid rate we are moving towards IP based solutions instead of the traditional ATM backhauls which for the last 5yrs especially has seen a large push in this country to fibre backhauls anyway.
On to the topic and regarding the costs of materials this is based on a variety of estimates for example the contractors costs based on the rate which NBN advise is the going rate simular to materials used by NDC contractors (Testra & Optus) etc this costing is based on per tender process, each process takes around 2-4weeks to submit then agree apparently, it is quicker than what Telstra operates under because they want the work done and size of the work required (shores up work for some contractors), most regional areas apparently aren't running on the same tender nor are the same contractors being used so price estimates won't be deemed valid, further to this it is also dependant on companies like Telstra & AAPT who are mainly investing in their own fibre infrastructure, NBN won't request provisions of fibre rollout in areas which already has fibre so essentially this could infact decrease the estimate given over the years as well (AAPT for instance just worked on a Nth QLD route and have some of the biggest branches in CBD areas already due to their agreement with energy companies to use the free space in conduits.ducts which bypass the council approval delays and costs). So as to it exceeding just on materials isn't something that realistically anyone should profess to know since it isn't available and honestly wouldn't be available as NBN / Government don't know the forecasted plans of AAPT, Telstra, Pipe etc as such could only relay their worst case scenario figures which again would be pointless to put across due to the other companies rolling this out.
LNP policy has very dramatic flaws in it which haven't been highlighted since after all their policy hasn't been pushed to the senate and they haven't actually sat down with anyone yet to nut out whats required. The costs they predicted will blow out, as to how much directly (being within 3-8 years) is one thing but the costs will also have to be ongoing and it's solution is only a short term view that is being presented.
The LNP solution won't create mass jobs, the big telcos who would support it have call centre staff, have engineers, have contractors who move across the land on their behalf and won't provide infrastructure support which this country needs, it will provide cost fundings on requirements which in the past Telstra will head to in ways which it deems it has to, they won't be pushed nor will any other Telco to grab the business as they don't have the available infrastructure or costing budget flexibility to focus on those areas outside of their own interests. Telco's won't do anything at a cost to them, they will do it for profit purposes. You only have to look at phone services to see where the buck stops currently and the views from a Telco perspective - there isn't profits to be made in country rollouts so the bare minimum will be done.
Going the Wireless approach will require numerous points created across the place, not hundreds, your talking given our national expansion 10s of thousands, their is already cancer concerns (yes people still panic about these), land acquisition, backhaul implementation (which will have to be fibre), then upgrades to existing infrastructure to support the expansion, vendor agreements and the list goes on to be rolled out. Only have to look at what happened to TelecomNZ as to why this isn't a great idea and they don't have the distance between communities or residential locations we have here. They did purchase large chunks of equipment and decoders to try and expand on the quality and speeds given which backfired at a large cost.
Going the Sat option …. hmmm ok this one isn't great and puts people in a position they are already in. You can often struggle to get over 50kbps upstream let alone the so called 256/512kbps downstream offerings around the place in remote areas. On top of this going down the path of Sat in the wet seasons in those areas means zero internet option due to cloud coverage, during peak temp conditions it also can distort the signal and cause issues etc sure you have software packages that are meant to roam to selected zones such as directpc but reallity is as a future option this really is just a toilet paper offering and the LNP way to continue wiping their bum of the guys in the bush.
As to copper well when it was talked about rolling ADSL2+ to regional areas I nearly fell off my chair, Telstra currently has an over 2yr waiting list for metro replacement, this is in some areas over 6yrs outside the 30km zone of metro regions, this length of time grows each month and won't improve unless massive amounts of money is thrown to upgrade this network, it isn't weather tolerant unless you have great protection and in the country/rural areas this won't be an option, the speeds can change with the wind (literally,) then you get cross talk concerns with radio frequencies etc, soldering of joins is often a concern if underground and put protection is another kettle of fish, it would require far more assistance to repair and maintain than other sources provided. Further to this there is a reason why 9billion was thrown at Telstra and why they focus most of their network strategy around fibre and off copper
Who will fund the above not just to implement, not just to maintain the implementation but also to maintain and provide assurance requirements in the years to come? Us of course and it won't be a very pretty cost either, sure might be cheaper than NBN but it will be ongoing and for what real benefit? It is also short term viewability. What I mean by this it isn't a solution that can last decades it's something to last this decade if that.
Further to above Networks require upgrades and often. These often occur within 3yrs as most vendor agreements aren't agreed much beyond this these days due to advancement in technology. This covers IT based (application or servers as IT plays a massive roll in the Telco environment currently), this could also lead to software upgrades (regression testing etc) and then of course possible hardware upgrade replacements (vendors supply new cards that don't fit the equipment in the field this changes yearly with some vendors). Vendor support costs alone cost millions and to offer new features it often requires software upgrades which also costs millions to support, you add more nodes into the network it costs more again, not less. Your not just talking vendor agreement/support costs but also costs for the telco engineers, support documentation, regression testing of existing products and new product releases etc - it is a large expense to manage
Regarding NBN approach as a negative in a GFC, I actually don't agree given the jobs that this will create (there is already 180+ people directly on the payroll), you have expansion of workforce such as IT, Billing, Marketing Wholsale and Retail, call center staff, assurance staff, engineers (voice, ip, transmission, field), field staff to support the engineers, carrier & vendor, provisioning staff etc, then the thousands of contractors that will be working on this, then you have electricians who's work would increase due to internal cabling of houses, then there is hardware replacements which will see people move to the retail outlets to get a new TV, new router, new PC, new air conditioner to hook up to smart wiring abilities, new phones, the list goes on all to try and sap some of the features offered over time off this network further enhancing the economy which would be a positive thing not negative.
Fibre whilst yes is costly, it is something you only have to put in once and lasts decades, it is weather tolerant (they have cables running under the oceans, they have it running over deserts) and further to this they won't be rolling this to areas in which fibre is already located and will be located as the years go on. It is also an investment owned by the country which again is something that is appealing to alot of people. This counts to those in the bush who got burnt more than most when Telstra was sold.
Thats just my thoughts on the topic
Mighty_Tiger
Well-known member
@hammertime said:
The thing is it lasts longer than towers and copper so what's the alternate longterm soloution that requires heavy investment to get the country to a standard it needs to be in the future?
As to it's lifetime and the NBN plan - the higher cause for concern would be farmers cutting the cable with their tractors than it degrading - it happens monthly at the moment on intercapital links so hate to think the frequency it would occur to a national plane link - that is the bigger concern especially if you try to develope a rim network (redundency)
A lot of information there MT .. good read.
Like I said above I dont disagree with any of this - If we are to have a broadband network upgrade then optic Fibre is the way to go. I also think its great that all Australians will have access to it thus eliminating a scenario of haves and have nots depending on how close to a metropolitan center you happen to live. All of the technical data you have presented sounds on the money and I dont think you'll get many arguing with that.
As an Electrical contractor with 13 employees, I for one will definetly benefit from this policy….If a few of my boys get fiber licenses we're in for a very good decade.
My problem with the NBN has nothing to do with the technical aspects of it, it is needed, especially rurally, my problem lies with the NBN co and the Labor government.
After seeing and witnessing how totally inept their running of the Insulation Scheme was I have no confidence in them bein able to deliver this project. The insulation scheme should have been a slam dunk for the government, it was a good idea. If it was managed and regulated properly it would have been a huge sucess.
I have read reports that the international subsea networks need upgrading...do you know anything about this?
I'm glad you brought up the point of damage to the cables...I accidentally left that out. I've personally witnessed earth moving contractors dig up and destroy OF cables before and saw what an absolute nightmare it was for them to repair...took hours at a VERY substantial cost. If this stuff is all around Australia you'd have to assume that the majority of farmers, fencers, landscapers, plumbers, electricians, and earthmovers around the country will have an acident with it at some point in their lifetime. I think being a fiber repair technician could lead to being a more lucrative career than a specialist surgeon. If the line is broken, how many people would be affected? how many businesses?
I agree totally with you that Labors plan is substandard. But it may still be the way to go.
Like I said above I dont disagree with any of this - If we are to have a broadband network upgrade then optic Fibre is the way to go. I also think its great that all Australians will have access to it thus eliminating a scenario of haves and have nots depending on how close to a metropolitan center you happen to live. All of the technical data you have presented sounds on the money and I dont think you'll get many arguing with that.
As an Electrical contractor with 13 employees, I for one will definetly benefit from this policy….If a few of my boys get fiber licenses we're in for a very good decade.
My problem with the NBN has nothing to do with the technical aspects of it, it is needed, especially rurally, my problem lies with the NBN co and the Labor government.
After seeing and witnessing how totally inept their running of the Insulation Scheme was I have no confidence in them bein able to deliver this project. The insulation scheme should have been a slam dunk for the government, it was a good idea. If it was managed and regulated properly it would have been a huge sucess.
I have read reports that the international subsea networks need upgrading...do you know anything about this?
I'm glad you brought up the point of damage to the cables...I accidentally left that out. I've personally witnessed earth moving contractors dig up and destroy OF cables before and saw what an absolute nightmare it was for them to repair...took hours at a VERY substantial cost. If this stuff is all around Australia you'd have to assume that the majority of farmers, fencers, landscapers, plumbers, electricians, and earthmovers around the country will have an acident with it at some point in their lifetime. I think being a fiber repair technician could lead to being a more lucrative career than a specialist surgeon. If the line is broken, how many people would be affected? how many businesses?
I agree totally with you that Labors plan is substandard. But it may still be the way to go.
Mighty_Tiger
Well-known member
NBN has it's own CEO and actually has little to answer for from the government from what I have been told. They have already been handed the budget to spend accordingly apparently so they are fundamentally running as a business as per say simular to how Telstra (or should say Telecom) were in the old days. The CIO actually was parked at AAPT operational headquarters for 4mths prior who was reviewing the current network operational structure with the head of Technology at AAPT prior to moving over to NBN, before that Claire had an extensive background in the industry especially in the UK via BT.
If NBN continues they will be recruiting some of the best around the telco park provided. There is already people recruited awaiting for the decision on if NBN is a green light or not prior to leaving their current employment
I wouldn't associate the insulation scheme with NBN just for the reason being this isn't actually being managed by Labour and circumstances are vastly different and aside from that Telstra are watching every move that is happening at the moment obviously for their own interests given the agreement they have with NBN of course.
The problem with the undersea cables is breakages and lack of a rim (redundant) network, there are more and more cable breaks occurring because there are more cables going undersea. These are often caused by earth quakes and of course boats (yes of all things) outside of that if they were deemed unreliable then we would be having all sorts of issues navigating the globe for information (well maybe not us essentially but it would affect world wide markets due to the dependence we now have on speed of information and voice over ip communication also)
See this is the thing, all networks need upgrading it's more of a case of frequency and then cost involved for that frequency. As to undersea it depends what your talking about and reasons why it is mentioned. When was the last time anyone really spoke of the undersea cables requiring to be removed and relaid due to degradation caused by lifespan and not an environmental disaster for example an earthquake? Considering some of these cables have been under the sea for decades now chugging data left right and centre across them that's not a bad record especially the length in which these cables run and pressure the sea puts onto them.
There has been a big push for Dial before you Dig, which is free and responds within 24hrs with cable drawings etc (no doubt you have used them), sure many people don't follow this but it can lead to large compensation claims sought after which is being pushed also currently in the event people don't. As to the effect a broken cable has on people it again depends on how the network is setup. It would be doubtful that a cable break would affect thousands of users as more often than not there are 2 common points but that is speaking from a CBD perspective. Thinking from a rural design I assume it would piggyback off the intercapital links at points (would actually allow for more redundency in a way) breaking communities/regions down reducing the people affected. But as to how many who knows. If you think about it a DSLAM is down at some point of time within 2yrs on average causing disruption, via copper there is a fault reported every 2yrs for the service down currently (timeline is getting shorter)
As to fibre licence well it isn't hard to get the more expensive part will be the hardware, don't think it would churn over more than a specialist surgeon per contractor however even during the peak time of fibre rollout.
If NBN continues they will be recruiting some of the best around the telco park provided. There is already people recruited awaiting for the decision on if NBN is a green light or not prior to leaving their current employment
I wouldn't associate the insulation scheme with NBN just for the reason being this isn't actually being managed by Labour and circumstances are vastly different and aside from that Telstra are watching every move that is happening at the moment obviously for their own interests given the agreement they have with NBN of course.
The problem with the undersea cables is breakages and lack of a rim (redundant) network, there are more and more cable breaks occurring because there are more cables going undersea. These are often caused by earth quakes and of course boats (yes of all things) outside of that if they were deemed unreliable then we would be having all sorts of issues navigating the globe for information (well maybe not us essentially but it would affect world wide markets due to the dependence we now have on speed of information and voice over ip communication also)
See this is the thing, all networks need upgrading it's more of a case of frequency and then cost involved for that frequency. As to undersea it depends what your talking about and reasons why it is mentioned. When was the last time anyone really spoke of the undersea cables requiring to be removed and relaid due to degradation caused by lifespan and not an environmental disaster for example an earthquake? Considering some of these cables have been under the sea for decades now chugging data left right and centre across them that's not a bad record especially the length in which these cables run and pressure the sea puts onto them.
There has been a big push for Dial before you Dig, which is free and responds within 24hrs with cable drawings etc (no doubt you have used them), sure many people don't follow this but it can lead to large compensation claims sought after which is being pushed also currently in the event people don't. As to the effect a broken cable has on people it again depends on how the network is setup. It would be doubtful that a cable break would affect thousands of users as more often than not there are 2 common points but that is speaking from a CBD perspective. Thinking from a rural design I assume it would piggyback off the intercapital links at points (would actually allow for more redundency in a way) breaking communities/regions down reducing the people affected. But as to how many who knows. If you think about it a DSLAM is down at some point of time within 2yrs on average causing disruption, via copper there is a fault reported every 2yrs for the service down currently (timeline is getting shorter)
As to fibre licence well it isn't hard to get the more expensive part will be the hardware, don't think it would churn over more than a specialist surgeon per contractor however even during the peak time of fibre rollout.
All I'll add is that the discussions on this page have been very interesting and informative!
Anyway If any of this means I can get decent internet speeds on the peninsula I'll be happy.
Anyway If any of this means I can get decent internet speeds on the peninsula I'll be happy.
Mighty_Tiger
Well-known member
It might not be NBN (it might be), it might be the LNP policy but at the end of the day the main thing is that this vital area of our country which has been neglected for a longtime are now getting the focus and commitment for improvements they deserve
The result of this election is a victory for democracy. All houses of parliaments should be decided by a third party or a number of individuals having a balance of power to moderate the excesses of any one political party and to get fair representation for their constituents.
In any majority parliament, there are always a set of constituents that are ignored because it is deemed unnecessary to win their vote.
This result is precisely how a democracy is suppose to function. Regardless of who ends up forming the minority government, this is a victory for the democratic process.
Perfection!
In any majority parliament, there are always a set of constituents that are ignored because it is deemed unnecessary to win their vote.
This result is precisely how a democracy is suppose to function. Regardless of who ends up forming the minority government, this is a victory for the democratic process.
Perfection!
The Labor party lost a lot of seats and should have lost more - They are a bunch of wasters
Now - I wish this thread would go away. This is a footy forum
Now - I wish this thread would go away. This is a footy forum
@Spartan117 said:
It's pretty simple just to ignore the thread and focus on the hundred or so footy threads…
Im easily distracted due to my ADD.
Plus I come to the WTF to escape to rest of the world especially that woman
Plus I come to the WTF to escape to rest of the world especially that woman
Stay clear of the General Discussion part then my friend and you'll be apples…
A
alien
Guest
@Yossarian said:
Are you talking about Manly?
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