Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Yossarian]

Interesting watching the Westminster system of Gov't in action at times, particularly when it trips itself up. Many more have been converted to the school of thought that the preferential system is flawed, the worst case scenario having realised iteself. If there is an outcome, it won't prove to be anything other than untenable. I don't believe either Gov't could be effective where the balance of power is held by those with regional self interest. Time will become an issue and neither party will tolerate endless meetings and negotiations over successive legislative proposals. The thing that's often forgotten here is that Independents are inevitably elected on the strength of their local focus, not Green House Emissions, Indigenous Issues or the BER.

It can only end in another election and the ANU polls are already suggesting a Coalition win by 6-10.

Westminster government is not the same as preferential voting. Britain doesn't have preferential voting…

Do you have a link to this ANU poll? I can't find any details on it.

Yoss, 'Westminster' in this case refers to the style of Government, not the big building by the Thames.

I quote 'The system is a series of procedures for operating a legislature. It is used, or was once used, in the national legislatures and sub national legislatures of most Commonwealth and ex-Commonwealth nations upon being granted responsible government, beginning with the first of the Canadian provinces in 1848 and the six Australian colonies between 1855 and 1890'

Preferential voting can be utilised in any system of democracy, but it is a key feature of the Australian political landscape and therefore a feature of our style of the Westminster System.

The poll dropped into my in box and I have deleted it, but was a newsletter from ANU. Will try and track it down.

Yeah I know what Westminster means champ - I think you misinterpreted my post which was in response to the suggestion that preferential voting = Westminster government or is an integral part of it. It is neither. What you are saying is preferential voting is a part of the Australian political system which it is. From there you've gone with Australia is a Westminster democracy, Australia has preferential voting, therefore preferential voting equates to Westminster government in Australia. A variation on the classic "my cat is a dog" argument. It is a false logic.

You are linking items that exist in the same sphere but have no true relationship with each other.Yes you can have a Westminster system using preferential voting but it is not an essential component (i.e. it is not definitional). You can have preferential voting outside of Westminster and you can have Westminster government outside of preferential voting. In fact I'd suggest Australia is one of the very few Westminster systems that actually uses preferential voting.

It is not correct to link the two. The National Party are a key feature of the Australian political system but have stuff all to do with the Westminster system of government. Your quote is correct and actually explains the flaw in your logic. Most political writers would consider NSW a Westminster government yet it only as optional preferential voting. As I said Britain is FPTP.

PS - My apologies if any of this comes across in a negative way towards you - my intention is just to set forward my POV!

 

[alien]

We think we have problems in our country. Atleast we are not as backward as some countries.
–----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<big>Iranian woman's son pleads for help</big>

The son of Sakineh Mohammadi-Ashtiani, an Iranian woman sentenced to death by stoning for adultery, pleaded on Friday for sustained international pressure to save her life.

"I urge you, please keep up the pressure," said the son, Sajjad, in an interview published in France's Liberation newspaper.

"Had you not been there, my mother would have already been dead," he added.

The appeal came after a similar plea he made to Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, in which he said: "Your voice has more weight for the president (Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad) than ours."

Lula has already tried in vain to convince Iran to let Mohammadi-Ashtiani take asylum in Brazil instead of being executed.

Mohammadi-Ashtiani, a 43-year-old mother of two, was given the death penalty for an extramarital relationship.

Iran has subsequently said she was also convicted of being an accomplice in her husband's death, though she has denied that was the case.

Her plight has prompted protests in Europe and an international campaign to spare her.

Tehran has provisionally suspended the death sentence, but her son told Liberation that a "suspension does not mean it has been annulled".

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/7877015/iranian-womans-son-pleads-for-help/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Tiger_Watto]

Labor forms government with the support of Oakeshot & Windsor.

Katter supports the Coalition.

Now we have a country run by 3 Independants!!!

 

[Yossarian]

So Gillard has the numbers to form a minority government. Katter earlier announced he would back the Coalition.

Finally it's all over!!!

 

[Tiger_Watto]

Nothing is over Yossarian… The moment Labor does something Oakeshot doesnt like, he votes it down...

One would wish now the GG had the power to send us back to the Polls!!!

 

[Yossarian]

Nothing is over Yossarian… The moment Labor does something Oakeshot doesnt like, he votes it down...

One would wish now the GG had the power to send us back to the Polls!!!

That would have applied either way Watto. Oakeshott, Windsor, Wilkie have all indicated a willingness to support the government on supply and arbitrary no-confidence motions. So game over in terms of forming a government.

We shall say what happens with the speaker. If the ALP really has a disaffected Lib up their sleeve to do the job or if they get this speaker/deputy pair business in place they will be in a solid position, effectively 75-73 (including Katter and Crook). That would allow Oakeshott, Wilkie, or Windsor to abstain at the very least. Also Katter has a lousy voting record so I would hate to be relying on his vote.

 

[BRET]

R.I.P democracy - 7.9.10

what a crap day.

 

[Yossarian]

R.I.P democracy - 7.9.10

what a crap day.

:laughing:

So things didn't go the way you wanted huh? What's that got to do with the death of democracy?

 

[system]

R.I.P democracy - 7.9.10

what a crap day.

This was always going to be the result while Abbott was leader. He and he alone is the only reason the Coalition is not in power now and for the last few weeks.

We will be heading for a new poll sooner than later and the Coalition will likely reinstate Turnbull and they will win by a landslide

 

[Geo]

R.I.P democracy - 7.9.10

what a crap day.

:laughing:

So things didn't go the way you wanted huh? What's that got to do with the death of democracy?

I dunno…...everyone got to vote...it wasn't rigged....Of course democracy is dead when your horse is a Donkey...

What were the Libs thinking....Any muppet but Abbott and they win in a landslide....the could have run Menzies from the grave....mongs.... :laughing:

 

[Yossarian]

R.I.P democracy - 7.9.10

what a crap day.

:laughing:

So things didn't go the way you wanted huh? What's that got to do with the death of democracy?

I dunno…...everyone got to vote...it wasn't rigged....Of course democracy is dead when your horse is a Donkey...

What were the Libs thinking....Any muppet but Abbott and they win in a landslide....the could have run Menzies from the grave....mongs.... :laughing:

They already did that from 1996-2007 :laughing:

 

[MacDougall]

All hail the Australian Labia Party.

 

[Yossarian]

All hail the Australian Labia Party.

Wow…...

 

[Kul]

gotta love Oakeshott's comments "I will support the supply the government, unless…"

we'll be back at the polls soon

 

[innsaneink]

Dont think so Kul….3 years of limbo more like it

 

[Kul]

Next Election
On or Before 31st Dec 2011 - $1.80
1st Jan 2012 to 30th Jun 2012 - $7.00
1st Jul 2012 to 31st Dec 2012 - $10.00
1st Jan 2013 to 30th Jun 2013 - $5.25
1st Jul 2013 to 31st Dec 2013 - $2.75
Anytime in 2014 - $12.00

 

[Blackpearl]

R.I.P democracy - 7.9.10

what a crap day.

This was always going to be the result while Abbott was leader. He and he alone is the only reason the Coalition is not in power now and for the last few weeks.

We will be heading for a new poll sooner than later and the Coalition will likely reinstate Turnbull and they will win by a landslide

i thought democracy died in '75 when bjerky petersen replaced /planted a dumbarse so-called ' labor ' senator field when the original incumbent labor senator died. bjerky ignored convention, put the stooge in and allowed fraser to get the senate majority to block supply to the whitlam govt … now thats democracy !
abbot and the libs still don't get it including nat broadband, that they are NOT born to rule. agree with you smeg that turnbull will be the leader before the next election but not about the landslide part, the libs have to come up with some policies first ! can't wait to hear the parrot, hadley, bolt and all the other news ltd lackeys frothing at the mouths as their master mr murdoch contemplates his navel.

 

[MGB]

To think Labor get in on the back of an uncosted national Broadband Scheme. Should be great when the grandmas and granddad's have super fast internet for their social emails and probably wont get a hospital bed when they need one.

Also on a side note Oakshot is a deadset goose, he tried to play it out as long as he could all the while claiming it will be a better government for the changes we have seen while everyone knew once Windsor made his call the coalition couldn't form government. It was Labor the minute he started going on about it and yet he thought he had everyone in suspense. Anyone who refers to a decision like that as 'sexy' (yeah he did) is a dead set goose.

 

[Kul]

R.I.P democracy - 7.9.10

what a crap day.

This was always going to be the result while Abbott was leader. He and he alone is the only reason the Coalition is not in power now and for the last few weeks.

We will be heading for a new poll sooner than later and the Coalition will likely reinstate Turnbull and they will win by a landslide

:smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
:wahoo:
:righton: :righton: :righton:

It's time for Turnbull!

 

[stryker]

Sad day for all Australians really…..Labor have zero chance to lead this country on their own terms.

Oakeshot deserves a kick in the head for the way he carried on today....and now the word is he has been offered a ministry position with Labor.

I'm ashamed with the way this has ended.