Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Cultured_Bogan]

Sky News, after dark; wow that borders on pure propaganda, Corbels would have been proud of what those good folks turn out. Alan Jones still banging on that COVID is being taken too seriously and India just needs to toughen up.
Yep SKY the home of utter right wing BS

I forgot what a wonderful and insightful show Q&A is, let's roll out Turnbull in the leather jacket

It would make sense to roll Turnbull out, seeing he is an actual liberal...

 

[jadtiger]

thejuicemedia is by far the most honest media in Australia,their adds from the Australien Government are brilliant satire. Especially as there is a large kernal of truth in all of them

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

The Murdoch media has successfully managed to con the Australian public into thinking that the Greens are allied with Labor. The same Greens party that benefits from wedge politics to drain votes out of the ALP. The same Greens party that constantly undermines relatively pragmatic and realistic ALP policy by claiming that they don't do enough by issuing unrealistic policy. But they are able to do that, as they aren't a primary party and will never be held to account for it and still get their 6% of the vote at the next election.

Right now the Greens are the most dangerous party in Australia. They are worse than the LNP in stifling progress as they benefit from the Murdoch narrative and do nothing to curb that because it threatens their existence as a party. As a result the ALP suffers. The Greens are the party of rich NIMBY's and a few hippies.

 

[Geo]

thejuicemedia is by far the most honest media in Australia,their adds from the Australien Government are brilliant satire. Especially as there is a large kernal of truth in all of them

100%..

 

[Tim Sheens]

When the national conference rolls up for the ALP, you see the ex PM's there, yet all the Tore ex PM's seem to disappear.
Fraser handed back his membership when he was alive, Malcom T actively works against the Tore's.
Howard's legacy is and will be dealt with by History, but remember the Tore's claim to be the greatest money managers falls on deaf ears when one does a little reading. The largest non war time deficit left this country was after eight years of Howard as treasurer. Try reading that in a Murdoch media

There were many policy failures that were created by the Howard/Costello period, especially the lack of infrastructure, middle-class welfare for a vote grab, which along with the super changes and tax cuts created a structural deficit that lasted another half decade or so.

Defecit was embedded post 2007, but they had enough rolling in from a rising China to cover their butts until the last of their legislative changes came into effect as they were removed, being booted before it was realised. They also funded the future fund on the back of selling much of our gold bullion and Telstra.

It would have been even worse if the Rudd government went with some of the excess promised, though I was disappointed that they did not stop all further proposed tax cuts and then the GFC hit. It is utter lunacy for the current further 30% rate cut expansion to go through in the current circumstances, if ever for mine.

This current mob, now under a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon like wannabe have ruined the platform that was created prior to people falling for three word slogans from a pair of parties with a lack of vision.


 

[Tim Sheens]

When the national conference rolls up for the ALP, you see the ex PM's there, yet all the Tore ex PM's seem to disappear.
Fraser handed back his membership when he was alive, Malcom T actively works against the Tore's.
Howard's legacy is and will be dealt with by History, but remember the Tore's claim to be the greatest money managers falls on deaf ears when one does a little reading. The largest non war time deficit left this country was after eight years of Howard as treasurer. Try reading that in a Murdoch media

No need the Guardian and the ABC lean so far left they fall over

Are you talking about the ABC who have presenters & journalists whom were long affiliated with the Liberal party like Amanda Vanstone, Pru Goward & Sarah Henderson? I am sure there's more.

oh yes Q&A and 7.30 report etc are really balanced journalism ... please
At least skynews doesn't pretend to be impartial

Trouble is Sky, like other Murdoch entities pretends to be a news organisation. At least up until it gets to court and then presents a case that the viewership is aware that the narrative is nonsense rather than facts.

That was quite funny to read though, because the ABC hosts of both shows are so far away from being Labor voters, let alone party friendly. Seriously, do you actually watch Hamish and/or Leigh to form that opinion on their hosting or come to such an assumption from elsewhere?

 

[Tiger5150]

When the national conference rolls up for the ALP, you see the ex PM's there, yet all the Tore ex PM's seem to disappear.
Fraser handed back his membership when he was alive, Malcom T actively works against the Tore's.
Howard's legacy is and will be dealt with by History, but remember the Tore's claim to be the greatest money managers falls on deaf ears when one does a little reading. The largest non war time deficit left this country was after eight years of Howard as treasurer. Try reading that in a Murdoch media

There were many policy failures that were created by the Howard/Costello period, especially the lack of infrastructure, middle-class welfare for a vote grab, which along with the super changes and tax cuts created a structural deficit that lasted another half decade or so.

Defecit was embedded post 2007, but they had enough rolling in from a rising China to cover their butts until the last of their legislative changes came into effect as they were removed, being booted before it was realised. They also funded the future fund on the back of selling much of our gold bullion and Telstra.

It would have been even worse if the Rudd government went with some of the excess promised, though I was disappointed that they did not stop all further proposed tax cuts and then the GFC hit. It is utter lunacy for the current further 30% rate cut expansion to go through in the current circumstances, if ever for mine.

This current mob, now under a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon like wannabe have ruined the platform that was created prior to people falling for three word slogans from a pair of parties with a lack of vision.


IMO thats a pretty accurate and balanced post (particularly from a partisan perspective) but that graph is incredibly misleading.

Australia (Govt) debt is simply a factor of budget deficit/surplus. If a Govt spends more than it earns it goes into further debt. The Aussie Govt has not produced a surplus since Howard and therefore every year goes further into debt, my point being that the fact that Govt debt is higher under Lib govt is not an indication that they have done "worse" than the previous Labor Govt, its an indication that they havent produced a surplus. Of course if you look at the link in the previous post of mine you can see that they were just about to preCOVID (as Labor may have without GFC).

If anything that graph shows that the Libs slowed the rate of debt

 

[Tim Sheens]

When the national conference rolls up for the ALP, you see the ex PM's there, yet all the Tore ex PM's seem to disappear.
Fraser handed back his membership when he was alive, Malcom T actively works against the Tore's.
Howard's legacy is and will be dealt with by History, but remember the Tore's claim to be the greatest money managers falls on deaf ears when one does a little reading. The largest non war time deficit left this country was after eight years of Howard as treasurer. Try reading that in a Murdoch media

There were many policy failures that were created by the Howard/Costello period, especially the lack of infrastructure, middle-class welfare for a vote grab, which along with the super changes and tax cuts created a structural deficit that lasted another half decade or so.

Defecit was embedded post 2007, but they had enough rolling in from a rising China to cover their butts until the last of their legislative changes came into effect as they were removed, being booted before it was realised. They also funded the future fund on the back of selling much of our gold bullion and Telstra.

It would have been even worse if the Rudd government went with some of the excess promised, though I was disappointed that they did not stop all further proposed tax cuts and then the GFC hit. It is utter lunacy for the current further 30% rate cut expansion to go through in the current circumstances, if ever for mine.

This current mob, now under a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon like wannabe have ruined the platform that was created prior to people falling for three word slogans from a pair of parties with a lack of vision.



IMO thats a pretty accurate and balanced post (particularly from a partisan perspective) but that graph is incredibly misleading.

Australia (Govt) debt is simply a factor of budget deficit/surplus. If a Govt spends more than it earns it goes into further debt. The Aussie Govt has not produced a surplus since Howard and therefore every year goes further into debt, my point being that the fact that Govt debt is higher under Lib govt is not an indication that they have done "worse" than the previous Labor Govt, its an indication that they havent produced a surplus. Of course if you look at the link in the previous post of mine you can see that they were just about to preCOVID (as Labor may have without GFC).

If anything that graph shows that the Libs slowed the rate of debt

Cannot see where that graph is misleading in any way, as it clearly shows the current defecit at the end of each financial year.

Unsure either of those governments were going to reach a surplus, even with the withholding of NDIS funding as part of the attempt with the latter.

 

[Tiger5150]

When the national conference rolls up for the ALP, you see the ex PM's there, yet all the Tore ex PM's seem to disappear.
Fraser handed back his membership when he was alive, Malcom T actively works against the Tore's.
Howard's legacy is and will be dealt with by History, but remember the Tore's claim to be the greatest money managers falls on deaf ears when one does a little reading. The largest non war time deficit left this country was after eight years of Howard as treasurer. Try reading that in a Murdoch media

There were many policy failures that were created by the Howard/Costello period, especially the lack of infrastructure, middle-class welfare for a vote grab, which along with the super changes and tax cuts created a structural deficit that lasted another half decade or so.

Defecit was embedded post 2007, but they had enough rolling in from a rising China to cover their butts until the last of their legislative changes came into effect as they were removed, being booted before it was realised. They also funded the future fund on the back of selling much of our gold bullion and Telstra.

It would have been even worse if the Rudd government went with some of the excess promised, though I was disappointed that they did not stop all further proposed tax cuts and then the GFC hit. It is utter lunacy for the current further 30% rate cut expansion to go through in the current circumstances, if ever for mine.

This current mob, now under a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon like wannabe have ruined the platform that was created prior to people falling for three word slogans from a pair of parties with a lack of vision.



IMO thats a pretty accurate and balanced post (particularly from a partisan perspective) but that graph is incredibly misleading.

Australia (Govt) debt is simply a factor of budget deficit/surplus. If a Govt spends more than it earns it goes into further debt. The Aussie Govt has not produced a surplus since Howard and therefore every year goes further into debt, my point being that the fact that Govt debt is higher under Lib govt is not an indication that they have done "worse" than the previous Labor Govt, its an indication that they havent produced a surplus. Of course if you look at the link in the previous post of mine you can see that they were just about to preCOVID (as Labor may have without GFC).

If anything that graph shows that the Libs slowed the rate of debt

Cannot see where that graph is misleading in any way, as it clearly shows the current ***defecit*** at the end of each financial year.

Unsure either of those governments were going to reach a surplus, even with the withholding of NDIS funding as part of the attempt with the latter.

There you go....it doesnt show the **deficit**, it shows the **debt**. Two different things.

Every year, the Govt budgets for how much they will spend and how much they will receive. If the amount they spend for that year is more than they will receive, that is a deficit, of its the other way around its a surplus (like 11of 13 years under Howard). If the Govt has a deficit...this increases the debt (the amount the Govt borrows to offset the deficit).

TLDR...YOu are wrong, that graph doesnt show the deficit, it shows the debt, that is why it is misleading. The reason the debt is larger under the Libs is because it existed under Labor. That graph is actually an indictment of Labors economical management (it blows up under Rudd and slows under Libs pre Covid).

 

[Merlot]

spend our way out of debt,never had math's like that until the last decade ,suppose they just lacked the right P R machine back then

 

[Enmoretiger 0]

The Tore's have become John Maynard Keynes converts, remember they voted against the 2008 budget.
Australia was the only country in 2008 that did not go into recession & the reason was that Rudd adopted Keynes economic polices and spent our way out of it; sound familiar to 2021.
When you run a corner shop, you concern yourself with possible debt overload, but when you run a economy you look at capital movement and income generation through spending and (that old scare campaign) burrowing. Especially when money has never in the history of world economics been this cheap.
Our current debt ratio, debt to GDP, is 72% definitely higher that it has been, but very low compared to other wealthy countries; i.e. Japan 150%, USA 100% all approximates
When you are in a debt high ratio, not that we are, then you look to increase your GDP, by by by I know create a new resource by using Hydrogen to create green steel & develop a manufacturing industry that does not involve arms.
Wait wrong mob, they want to keep digging coal & they got rid of the car industry.
Must be running a shop

 

[Yossarian]

When the national conference rolls up for the ALP, you see the ex PM's there, yet all the Tore ex PM's seem to disappear.
Fraser handed back his membership when he was alive, Malcom T actively works against the Tore's.
Howard's legacy is and will be dealt with by History, but remember the Tore's claim to be the greatest money managers falls on deaf ears when one does a little reading. The largest non war time deficit left this country was after eight years of Howard as treasurer. Try reading that in a Murdoch media

There were many policy failures that were created by the Howard/Costello period, especially the lack of infrastructure, middle-class welfare for a vote grab, which along with the super changes and tax cuts created a structural deficit that lasted another half decade or so.

Defecit was embedded post 2007, but they had enough rolling in from a rising China to cover their butts until the last of their legislative changes came into effect as they were removed, being booted before it was realised. They also funded the future fund on the back of selling much of our gold bullion and Telstra.

It would have been even worse if the Rudd government went with some of the excess promised, though I was disappointed that they did not stop all further proposed tax cuts and then the GFC hit. It is utter lunacy for the current further 30% rate cut expansion to go through in the current circumstances, if ever for mine.

This current mob, now under a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon like wannabe have ruined the platform that was created prior to people falling for three word slogans from a pair of parties with a lack of vision.



IMO thats a pretty accurate and balanced post (particularly from a partisan perspective) but that graph is incredibly misleading.

Australia (Govt) debt is simply a factor of budget deficit/surplus. If a Govt spends more than it earns it goes into further debt. The Aussie Govt has not produced a surplus since Howard and therefore every year goes further into debt, my point being that the fact that Govt debt is higher under Lib govt is not an indication that they have done "worse" than the previous Labor Govt, its an indication that they havent produced a surplus. Of course if you look at the link in the previous post of mine you can see that they were just about to preCOVID (as Labor may have without GFC).

If anything that graph shows that the Libs slowed the rate of debt

Cannot see where that graph is misleading in any way, as it clearly shows the current ***defecit*** at the end of each financial year.

Unsure either of those governments were going to reach a surplus, even with the withholding of NDIS funding as part of the attempt with the latter.

There you go....it doesnt show the **deficit**, it shows the **debt**. Two different things.

Every year, the Govt budgets for how much they will spend and how much they will receive. If the amount they spend for that year is more than they will receive, that is a deficit, of its the other way around its a surplus (like 11of 13 years under Howard). If the Govt has a deficit...this increases the debt (the amount the Govt borrows to offset the deficit).

TLDR...YOu are wrong, that graph doesnt show the deficit, it shows the debt, that is why it is misleading. The reason the debt is larger under the Libs is because it existed under Labor. That graph is actually an indictment of Labors economical management (it blows up under Rudd and slows under Libs pre Covid).

So the LNP get a pass on COVID but the ALP don't for the GFC? From memory debt as GDP levels for the Howard government were comparable to Hawke/Keating. It went up under Rudd/Gillard and kept rising under Abbott.

As for deficits nobody has run a surplus aside from during the mining boom. Even then it had little to do with spending reform or general revenue increases.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

When the national conference rolls up for the ALP, you see the ex PM's there, yet all the Tore ex PM's seem to disappear.
Fraser handed back his membership when he was alive, Malcom T actively works against the Tore's.
Howard's legacy is and will be dealt with by History, but remember the Tore's claim to be the greatest money managers falls on deaf ears when one does a little reading. The largest non war time deficit left this country was after eight years of Howard as treasurer. Try reading that in a Murdoch media

There were many policy failures that were created by the Howard/Costello period, especially the lack of infrastructure, middle-class welfare for a vote grab, which along with the super changes and tax cuts created a structural deficit that lasted another half decade or so.

Defecit was embedded post 2007, but they had enough rolling in from a rising China to cover their butts until the last of their legislative changes came into effect as they were removed, being booted before it was realised. They also funded the future fund on the back of selling much of our gold bullion and Telstra.

It would have been even worse if the Rudd government went with some of the excess promised, though I was disappointed that they did not stop all further proposed tax cuts and then the GFC hit. It is utter lunacy for the current further 30% rate cut expansion to go through in the current circumstances, if ever for mine.

This current mob, now under a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon like wannabe have ruined the platform that was created prior to people falling for three word slogans from a pair of parties with a lack of vision.



IMO thats a pretty accurate and balanced post (particularly from a partisan perspective) but that graph is incredibly misleading.

Australia (Govt) debt is simply a factor of budget deficit/surplus. If a Govt spends more than it earns it goes into further debt. The Aussie Govt has not produced a surplus since Howard and therefore every year goes further into debt, my point being that the fact that Govt debt is higher under Lib govt is not an indication that they have done "worse" than the previous Labor Govt, its an indication that they havent produced a surplus. Of course if you look at the link in the previous post of mine you can see that they were just about to preCOVID (as Labor may have without GFC).

If anything that graph shows that the Libs slowed the rate of debt

Cannot see where that graph is misleading in any way, as it clearly shows the current ***defecit*** at the end of each financial year.

Unsure either of those governments were going to reach a surplus, even with the withholding of NDIS funding as part of the attempt with the latter.

There you go....it doesnt show the **deficit**, it shows the **debt**. Two different things.

Every year, the Govt budgets for how much they will spend and how much they will receive. If the amount they spend for that year is more than they will receive, that is a deficit, of its the other way around its a surplus (like 11of 13 years under Howard). If the Govt has a deficit...this increases the debt (the amount the Govt borrows to offset the deficit).

TLDR...YOu are wrong, that graph doesnt show the deficit, it shows the debt, that is why it is misleading. The reason the debt is larger under the Libs is because it existed under Labor. That graph is actually an indictment of Labors economical management (it blows up under Rudd and slows under Libs pre Covid).

So the LNP get a pass on COVID but the ALP don't for the GFC? From memory debt as GDP levels for the Howard government were comparable to Hawke/Keating. It went up under Rudd/Gillard and kept rising under Abbott.

As for deficits nobody has run a surplus aside from during the mining boom. Even then it had little to do with spending reform or general revenue increases.

Came off the back of public asset sales and a firesale in our bullion reserves.

 

[Tiger5150]

When the national conference rolls up for the ALP, you see the ex PM's there, yet all the Tore ex PM's seem to disappear.
Fraser handed back his membership when he was alive, Malcom T actively works against the Tore's.
Howard's legacy is and will be dealt with by History, but remember the Tore's claim to be the greatest money managers falls on deaf ears when one does a little reading. The largest non war time deficit left this country was after eight years of Howard as treasurer. Try reading that in a Murdoch media

There were many policy failures that were created by the Howard/Costello period, especially the lack of infrastructure, middle-class welfare for a vote grab, which along with the super changes and tax cuts created a structural deficit that lasted another half decade or so.

Defecit was embedded post 2007, but they had enough rolling in from a rising China to cover their butts until the last of their legislative changes came into effect as they were removed, being booted before it was realised. They also funded the future fund on the back of selling much of our gold bullion and Telstra.

It would have been even worse if the Rudd government went with some of the excess promised, though I was disappointed that they did not stop all further proposed tax cuts and then the GFC hit. It is utter lunacy for the current further 30% rate cut expansion to go through in the current circumstances, if ever for mine.

This current mob, now under a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon like wannabe have ruined the platform that was created prior to people falling for three word slogans from a pair of parties with a lack of vision.



IMO thats a pretty accurate and balanced post (particularly from a partisan perspective) but that graph is incredibly misleading.

Australia (Govt) debt is simply a factor of budget deficit/surplus. If a Govt spends more than it earns it goes into further debt. The Aussie Govt has not produced a surplus since Howard and therefore every year goes further into debt, my point being that the fact that Govt debt is higher under Lib govt is not an indication that they have done "worse" than the previous Labor Govt, its an indication that they havent produced a surplus. Of course if you look at the link in the previous post of mine you can see that they were just about to preCOVID (as Labor may have without GFC).

If anything that graph shows that the Libs slowed the rate of debt

Cannot see where that graph is misleading in any way, as it clearly shows the current ***defecit*** at the end of each financial year.

Unsure either of those governments were going to reach a surplus, even with the withholding of NDIS funding as part of the attempt with the latter.

There you go....it doesnt show the **deficit**, it shows the **debt**. Two different things.

Every year, the Govt budgets for how much they will spend and how much they will receive. If the amount they spend for that year is more than they will receive, that is a deficit, of its the other way around its a surplus (like 11of 13 years under Howard). If the Govt has a deficit...this increases the debt (the amount the Govt borrows to offset the deficit).

TLDR...YOu are wrong, that graph doesnt show the deficit, it shows the debt, that is why it is misleading. The reason the debt is larger under the Libs is because it existed under Labor. That graph is actually an indictment of Labors economical management (it blows up under Rudd and slows under Libs pre Covid).

So the LNP get a pass on COVID but the ALP don't for the GFC? From memory debt as GDP levels for the Howard government were comparable to Hawke/Keating. It went up under Rudd/Gillard and kept rising under Abbott.

Of course the GFC impacted the deficit and then by extension Govt debt and I mentioned that in another post. The budget previous to the GFC had a large deficit and was the start of the climb (of course the GFC blew it out no question).


As for deficits nobody has run a surplus aside from during the mining boom. Even then it had little to do with spending reform or general revenue increases.

Not the point I was making. My whole injection in this thread recently regarding deficits/debt was to correct a previous poster who asserted that the "largest deficit" in history was under Howard, and this is simply not true. Im not making the case that it was due to good management or like you say the mining boom, its irrelevant to the fact that the last 8 of 12 years under Howard we didnt have a deficit.

 

[Enmoretiger 0]

Please I don't mind being quoted, but get it right.
John Howard DID preceded over the largest non war deficit this country has seen and that was when he was treasure under Fraser. Funny enough that is exactly how Peter Costello described him as "a failed economic manager"
I can remember being a tradesman then, interest rates and unemployment were both double digits, it was tough and Australia seemed to be in a un ending cycle of recession and boom, a cycle that repeated itself nearly ever 7 years. With the Government setting the exchange and interest rates to suite their politic needs
Unlike the current modern economy inherited by these shop keepers from a forward thinking reformist economic managers.
Anyone who claims Howard was a economic manager does not know their history and I am afraid that if you do not know your history, you are doomed to repeat it.
How else would the Torie's get re elected?

 

[Tiger5150]

Please ***I don't mind being quoted, but get it right.***
John Howard DID preceded over the largest non war deficit this country has seen and that was when he was treasure under Fraser.

Mate I dont want to misquote you, which is why I have left this quote on by itself. It is simply untrue.

82 was Howards last budget as treasurer and it was surplus, not deficit.

The economy was buggered at this time and there was double digit inflation, interest rates and unemployment.....it was also global.

Hawke and Keating then undertook the most extensive restructure since the war and completely fixed the underlying economic issues.

The largest deficits of all time have been under Rudd (2010, post GFC) and 2020 under Morrisson (COVID).

Correct me if Ive misquoted you anywhere.

https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/government-budget

 

[Tim Sheens]

Disgusted to hear during questioning that our PM did not say sorry to Brittany Higgins during their meeting. That would be amongst, if not the first words from any true leader, yet all we get is a dodgy report tabled in parliament, along with obfuscation and refusal to answer in estimates.

Got me stuffed how any decent person could vote for a party led by this terrible man. By far the worst since I can remember with any clarity.

 

[TrueTiger]

Disgusted to hear during questioning that our PM did not say sorry to Brittany Higgins during their meeting. That would be amongst, if not the first words from any true leader, yet all we get is a dodgy report tabled in parliament, along with obfuscation and refusal to answer in estimates.

Got me stuffed how any decent person could vote for a party led by this terrible man. By far the worst since I can remember with any clarity.

That would just be your opinion FG...the alternative leader doesnt seem to be doing to well either atm...
People who voted for the PM got him in and it will be up to the people to judge him at the next election...
Like any politician left,right or centre,once their in they do as they please....

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Disgusted to hear during questioning that our PM did not say sorry to Brittany Higgins during their meeting. That would be amongst, if not the first words from any true leader, yet all we get is a dodgy report tabled in parliament, along with obfuscation and refusal to answer in estimates.

Got me stuffed how any decent person could vote for a party led by this terrible man. By far the worst since I can remember with any clarity.

He only would have done it if there was an opportunity for a photo op.

He is a disgrace. Tony Abbott had dated views but he had conviction and walked his talk.