Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Tiger5150]

Excellent post. Like most conspiracy theories there are elements of truth buried in a series of inaccuracies or unproven (or even provably false) linkages.

Agreed, as has been my point all the way through this thread.

There was a laptop. The emails that experts have definitively stated are genuine are fairly nebulous. Then there’s a bunch of other emails which may or may not be genuine.

Correct, they exist and they imply serious corruption.

Hunter Biden is possibly as corrupt as all hell. Don’t know. As of now I don’t believe he’s ever been charged or prosecuted of anything let alone convicted of an offence. Should these things be further explored? Sure, if there’s reliable evidence to support it.

Finally. Glad we got to a consensus.

There’s basically no reliable evidence to support that President Biden is guilty of anything.

Is that not what an investigation would find/determine? There is already more than enough information in the verified emails implying serious corruption and misuse of power. A serious transparent investigation would determine of there is any substance behind the implication and would exonerate or implicate Joe Biden.

Maybe he lied about something when he was campaigning, I really can’t be bothered looking into this to be honest. But that’s not a crime or a reason to further investigate.

When a substantive question is raised about his sons shady dealings that appear to have been conducted at less than arms length from the Vice President (Hunter traveled on Air Force 1 to the Chinese meeting as well as meetings with Mexican billionaires) and Joe Biden lies about having met any of these people, but photos and emails surface showing that he is lying, you dont think that raises more questions about what else might have been going on?

Unexplained income or assets etc. A clear act of malfeasance. I’m just not seeing it based on this.

There is literally an email stating and verified by one of the recipients that the Vice President is being held 10% of $11M from a Chinese Energy Company. There is literally an email from Hunter to his daughter bitching about the fact that Hunter has to give half of his income to his Dad. There has long been corruption allegations about Joe Biden, he has been a career politician for 50years but holds enormous wealth, literally most of his assets are unexplained. There has been a LOT of reporting on where his assets came from...

Biden, Inc.: How ‘Middle Class’ Joe’s family cashed in on the family name

Over his decades in office, the Biden family’s fortunes have closely tracked the former vice president’s political career.

www.politico.com

You will scoff at any sources I give you, so do your own research. Google the following:
1. What is the reason the largest credit card companies in the world set up office in Wilmington in the 90's?
2. Who is MBNA and how did they become the US largest independent credit card company so quickly?
3. Who bought Joe Bidens house in 1996 and how much did they pay for it?
4. What was the Bankruptcy Reform Act, first tabled in 1997, passed in 2005, opposed by Barack Obama and who was the main proponent and supporter of it?

Joe is corrupt as all hell and has amassed huge wealth from years of corruption, but that is not what I am discussing in this thread. The Hunter Biden laptop information is clear enough that it needs to be investigated.

 

[Tiger5150]

Facts.

He has also been in office for years on end and has always appeared to act with integrity. I listen to Peter Zeihan on geopolitics and he rates Biden. He didn't rate Trump or Obama in different ways.

Peter Zeihan thinks Biden is a weak leader

 

[Tiger5150]

Facts.

He has also been in office for years on end and has always appeared to act with integrity. I listen to Peter Zeihan on geopolitics and he rates Biden. He didn't rate Trump or Obama in different ways.

Biden, Inc.: How ‘Middle Class’ Joe’s family cashed in on the family name

Over his decades in office, the Biden family’s fortunes have closely tracked the former vice president’s political career.

www.politico.com

How Joe Biden helped build a financial system that’s great for Delaware banks and terrible for the rest of us

"Biden’s banking votes have stuck with him because their effects have stuck with us."

www.motherjones.com

 

[The Sniffer]

@Carefactor @Magpie_Magic @TrueTiger @Tiger5150 @hugh1954 @Tucker

I suggest to you all to just ignore Yoss and Earls accounts. They bring zero value and dishonest arguments in every post. Its not worth your time. They aren't even trying to listen to what you are saying, valid or not. Brush them aside and we can have a real conversation about politics without every 2nd post being whataboutism with zero citations ever presented and childish retorts. Will lift the level of actual political discourse on here 100 fold.

Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - Mark Twain

 

[The Sniffer]

Agreed, as has been my point all the way through this thread.

Correct, they exist and they imply serious corruption.



Finally. Glad we got to a consensus.

Is that not what an investigation would find/determine? There is already more than enough information in the verified emails implying serious corruption and misuse of power. A serious transparent investigation would determine of there is any substance behind the implication and would exonerate or implicate Joe Biden.


When a substantive question is raised about his sons shady dealings that appear to have been conducted at less than arms length from the Vice President (Hunter traveled on Air Force 1 to the Chinese meeting as well as meetings with Mexican billionaires) and Joe Biden lies about having met any of these people, but photos and emails surface showing that he is lying, you dont think that raises more questions about what else might have been going on?


There is literally an email stating and verified by one of the recipients that the Vice President is being held 10% of $11M from a Chinese Energy Company. There is literally an email from Hunter to his daughter bitching about the fact that Hunter has to give half of his income to his Dad. There has long been corruption allegations about Joe Biden, he has been a career politician for 50years but holds enormous wealth, literally most of his assets are unexplained. There has been a LOT of reporting on where his assets came from...

Biden, Inc.: How ‘Middle Class’ Joe’s family cashed in on the family name

Over his decades in office, the Biden family’s fortunes have closely tracked the former vice president’s political career.

www.politico.com

You will scoff at any sources I give you, so do your own research. Google the following:
1. What is the reason the largest credit card companies in the world set up office in Wilmington in the 90's?
2. Who is MBNA and how did they become the US largest independent credit card company so quickly?
3. Who bought Joe Bidens house in 1996 and how much did they pay for it?
4. What was the Bankruptcy Reform Act, first tabled in 1997, passed in 2005, opposed by Barack Obama and who was the main proponent and supporter of it?

Joe is corrupt as all hell and has amassed huge wealth from years of corruption, but that is not what I am discussing in this thread. The Hunter Biden laptop information is clear enough that it needs to be investigated.

"There isn't any evidence that I can see when it comes to Joe Biden being corrupt" - Earl


Just getting it in first.

 

[Tiger5150]

My impression of Biden is he is one of the good guys who has come to power at a terrible time due to right wing extremism and dumb conspiracy theories.

He handles himself so well. I think he should stand down though because he is old and all the nonsense that right wing extremists/conspiracy theorists comes up with ala 5150's silly nonsense would be annoying.

Right wing conspiracy theorist?

Serious questions Earl and if you are going to label me a right wing conspiracy theorist, you should have the balls to stand up and answer them. Or do you just gutlessly label people because they hold a different point of view to you? We will see by your response.

1. In this thread about Hunters laptop, please point to one thing that I said that wasnt true and backed up by Washington Post and NY Times? Washington Post and NY Times are peddling conspiracy theorists?
2. Back up your name calling by pointing to a single post of mine that indicates that I am "right wing". I voted Labor in the last federal election because of my love of Fuhrer Albanese. Please point to a single post showing my right wing ideology.

Over to you Earl, lets see your integrity....

 

[Tiger5150]

This is ludicrous.

I'll try and explain how investigations occur. You need some issue against a specific person or company and then you investigate that specific person or company.

Like an email stating that the Vice President of the United States is receiving a 10% kick back from a Chinese Energy company? Or like emails from the CEO of a Ukranian Energy Company that the vice President never met thanking him for meeting with him and asking the son of the VP to use his "political connections" to circumvent the legal system?

Those kind of issues?

 

[Tiger5150]

Well there’s one “verified” (I put this in quotations because it’s a private investigation by one person) email. Ukrainian guy says he met Joe Biden. Joe Biden says it didn’t happen. I assume, given it doesn’t seem to have come up, that there’s no corroboration of this claim.

There are 128K emails, 22K verified, 0 proven false after intensive scrutiny, but yes IMO even on its own, a verified email proving that the boss of Burisma met with the VP, prior to the prosecutor sacking, prior to the withholding $1B, prior to the support of ousting the ukrainian President, subsequent to his son getting the gig on the board, this on its own is more than enough to warrant proper investigation. The fact there is so much other information such as the Chinese and Mexican deals means it has to be investigated IMO, even if it is to prove (in a legitimate, transparent investigation) that they are all false.

 

[Yossarian]

Agreed, as has been my point all the way through this thread.

Correct, they exist and they imply serious corruption.



Finally. Glad we got to a consensus.

Is that not what an investigation would find/determine? There is already more than enough information in the verified emails implying serious corruption and misuse of power. A serious transparent investigation would determine of there is any substance behind the implication and would exonerate or implicate Joe Biden.


When a substantive question is raised about his sons shady dealings that appear to have been conducted at less than arms length from the Vice President (Hunter traveled on Air Force 1 to the Chinese meeting as well as meetings with Mexican billionaires) and Joe Biden lies about having met any of these people, but photos and emails surface showing that he is lying, you dont think that raises more questions about what else might have been going on?


There is literally an email stating and verified by one of the recipients that the Vice President is being held 10% of $11M from a Chinese Energy Company. There is literally an email from Hunter to his daughter bitching about the fact that Hunter has to give half of his income to his Dad. There has long been corruption allegations about Joe Biden, he has been a career politician for 50years but holds enormous wealth, literally most of his assets are unexplained. There has been a LOT of reporting on where his assets came from...

Biden, Inc.: How ‘Middle Class’ Joe’s family cashed in on the family name

Over his decades in office, the Biden family’s fortunes have closely tracked the former vice president’s political career.

www.politico.com

You will scoff at any sources I give you, so do your own research. Google the following:
1. What is the reason the largest credit card companies in the world set up office in Wilmington in the 90's?
2. Who is MBNA and how did they become the US largest independent credit card company so quickly?
3. Who bought Joe Bidens house in 1996 and how much did they pay for it?
4. What was the Bankruptcy Reform Act, first tabled in 1997, passed in 2005, opposed by Barack Obama and who was the main proponent and supporter of it?

Joe is corrupt as all hell and has amassed huge wealth from years of corruption, but that is not what I am discussing in this thread. The Hunter Biden laptop information is clear enough that it needs to be investigated.

You keep quoting things I’ve responded to, most notably the $11m with the cut to Biden. There’s zero corroboration to support it and there’s no definitive proof Hunter Biden sent it. All there is is one person saying he received it. That makes it am unsupported allegation.

Hunter Biden was on Air Force One last year. So what? Is it illegal? It is not. Anyway, to be accurate, the allegation is that he flew to China on Air Force 2, not 1. Again, is that illegal? No, it’s not. Then VP Biden was also on the flight as was his daughter.

Oh wow, more claims from the crypt.

1. A baseless slur with no context. A lot of credit card companies are based in Delaware and have been since the 1970s. That was because of the then governor of Delaware offering favourable terms to attract banks leaving New York because of usury charge limits. Zero to do with Joe Biden. Do better.

2. Yes Biden has championed causes supported by MBNA. Yes Hunter Biden worked there. No, MBNA did not become a big company because of either Biden. They became big because Bank of America bought them. Far from being “America’s biggest” (biggest what exactly?) they haven’t existed as an independent company for over 15 years. They’re headquartered in England now by the way, so I guess Joe pulls the strings by phone now.

3. So? You’re throwing mud and hoping something sticks. The sale is on public record. There’s nothing to suggest the price was overinflated and there’s no evidence there was any impropriety about the whole thing.

4. You make it sound like it’s Biden’s bill. In fact it was introduced by a Republican and signed into law by Bush Jr. It squeaked by in the House 302-126 and 74-25 in the Senate. Many Democrats supported the bill including ALL congressional members from Delaware. Probably because Delaware relies heavily on credit card companies being based there. It would be politically dumb for any Delaware politician to vote against something like that. Obama opposed it. So what? Hillary supposedly was all for it.

 

[Yossarian]

There are 128K emails, 22K verified, 0 proven false after intensive scrutiny, but yes IMO even on its own, a verified email proving that the boss of Burisma met with the VP, prior to the prosecutor sacking, prior to the withholding $1B, prior to the support of ousting the ukrainian President, subsequent to his son getting the gig on the board, this on its own is more than enough to warrant proper investigation. The fact there is so much other information such as the Chinese and Mexican deals means it has to be investigated IMO, even if it is to prove (in a legitimate, transparent investigation) that they are all false.

Zero proven false is a meaningless number if they can’t be verified as accurate. It means nothing.

An email from someone saying they met someone is not proof of anything on its own. They should keep you off juries if that’s the burden of proof. If I send an email saying I had dinner with Katy Perry is that good enough evidence if she says she’s never heard of me?

Legitimate? Like say by the US House of Representatives? Transparent? Like they published their findings? You may be in luck there…

 

[The Sniffer]

You keep quoting things I’ve responded to, most notably the $11m with the cut to Biden. There’s zero corroboration to support it and there’s no definitive proof Hunter Biden sent it. All there is is one person saying he received it. That makes it am unsupported allegation.

Hunter Biden was on Air Force One last year. So what? Is it illegal? It is not. Anyway, to be accurate, the allegation is that he flew to China on Air Force 2, not 1. Again, is that illegal? No, it’s not. Then VP Biden was also on the flight as was his daughter.

Oh wow, more claims from the crypt.

1. A baseless slur with no context. A lot of credit card companies are based in Delaware and have been since the 1970s. That was because of the then governor of Delaware offering favourable terms to attract banks leaving New York because of usury charge limits. Zero to do with Joe Biden. Do better.

2. Yes Biden has championed causes supported by MBNA. Yes Hunter Biden worked there. No, MBNA did not become a big company because of either Biden. They became big because Bank of America bought them. Far from being “America’s biggest” (biggest what exactly?) they haven’t existed as an independent company for over 15 years. They’re headquartered in England now by the way, so I guess Joe pulls the strings by phone now.

3. So? You’re throwing mud and hoping something sticks. The sale is on public record. There’s nothing to suggest the price was overinflated and there’s no evidence there was any impropriety about the whole thing.

4. You make it sound like it’s Biden’s bill. In fact it was introduced by a Republican and signed into law by Bush Jr. It squeaked by in the House 302-126 and 74-25 in the Senate. Many Democrats supported the bill including ALL congressional members from Delaware. Probably because Delaware relies heavily on credit card companies being based there. It would be politically dumb for any Delaware politician to vote against something like that. Obama opposed it. So what? Hillary supposedly was all for it.

"Yes Biden has championed causes supported by MBNA. Yes Hunter Biden worked there." -Yoss

and then.....

"There isn't any evidence that I can see when it comes to Joe Biden being corrupt" - Earl

"Hunter Biden is probably really smart and a high achiever. I really doubt he is someone who has been gifted the opportunities he has had because he is Joe Biden's son" - Earl

 

[Yossarian]

Where did I say that?

My point is during a time when he held senior U.S. office with power to influence, events like those took place.

Now holding a senior role in a powerful nation gives him that privilege.
My post was in reference to whether one likes his geopolitics.

Well why mention them if they’re not relevant? Are you saying he influenced these events or not?

 

[The Sniffer]

Zero proven false is a meaningless number if they can’t be verified as accurate. It means nothing.

An email from someone saying they met someone is not proof of anything on its own. They should keep you off juries if that’s the burden of proof. If I send an email saying I had dinner with Katy Perry is that good enough evidence if she says she’s never heard of me?

Legitimate? Like say by the US House of Representatives? Transparent? Like they published their findings? You may be in luck there…

Yoss is literally agreeing that zero has been proven false yet somehow this is also his argument. Jesus.

 

[The Sniffer]

Well why mention them if they’re not relevant? Are you saying he influenced these events or not?

No, only Trump did anything like that. I wont ever provide example though, just believe me.

Now, can i get an upvote from my boys Yoss and Earl.

 

[Tiger5150]

It's not that.

Its not that? Then you need to be more careful with your words Earl, I have been. You said nothing I have said is true. Everything I have said is true. What the implications of what I have been saying is clearly up for interpretation but I havent said a single thing that isnt true.

There isn't any evidence that I can see when it comes to Joe Biden being corrupt. Even your attacks on Hunter Biden don't sound like anything to me.

Proof of corruption (or absolution) would come as a result of an investigation. There are emails that exist, in the possession of the FBI that strongly imply significant corruption that warrants that investigation.

Let's get some facts first. Hunter Biden is probably really smart and a high achiever. I really doubt he is someone who has been gifted the opportunities he has had because he is Joe Biden's son.

Oh my actual god Earl. Genuinely the funniest thing I have ever read on these forums. By his own admission Hunter Biden says he lives paycheck to paycheck. Sacked from the navy for drug use, without even bringing up his affair with his dead brothers widow and the STI's. I dont think the words facts or high achiever mean what you think they do. Seriously Earl...

www.google.com

Just to be clear if there is any proof of corruption I'm fine with prosecuting Joe and Hunter. I'm even cool with investigating him for tax fraud.

You dont think there should be an investigation prior to prosecuting them?

You see verified emails as some sort of smoking gun but I don't.

Then you dont read any of my posts. Three times I have literally used the words "there is no smoking gun"

Put it this way I think Gladys had to be investigated. It was clearly a conflict of interest. I don't see that in this instance. The reason I mention Gladys is that I personally liked her.

And she fell on her sword because she had integrity....see how it works? You dont see a conflict of interest with the Vice President flying his son on Air Force 2 to meet with Chinese and Mexican billionaires, emails saying Joe got a kick back of 10% of $11M or lying about meeting the CEO of his sons company? At least Gladys was just sleeping with a guy.

You read way more into the available evidence than I do. Your interpretation is way more dramatic than my interpretation. I honestly think basically all you have against Joe is a photo that proves nothing at all.

Thats cool Earl if that is your interpretation but its insulting that you call me a right wing conspiracy theorist when you dont even bother to read my posts. For you to say all Ive provided is a photo is ridiculous, I have clogged this thread with article after article, reference after reference and you clearly dont look or read any of them and thats fine, you have your opinion and noone is forcing you to change it or read the information to formulate your opinion, but to label me a right wing conspiracist when you dont even read my posts is insulting and offensive and a clear indication of your integrity.

Yoss very clearly disagrees with me and generally has the same viewpiont as you, but he does so without name calling and offensive labelling and in every case has gone to the trouble of reading my information, disagreeing with it on its merits and countering it with his own information (which I have frequently argued for or against). that is what intelligent discussion looks like, that is what integrity looks like. What you are doing is not and thats fine, you do you, but not sure a politics forum is the place for you in that case.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

Well why mention them if they’re not relevant? Are you saying he influenced these events or not?

Who knows, he may have.

He would have certainly been in a position to know about them and have major say whether the U.S. got involved and how so as VP.

He would have been heavily briefed and would have been aware of the serious ramifications of superpower rivalry with Russia with any U.S. involvement with the coup in Ukraine.

True, Obama would have had casting vote but they would have been briefed about where things would go with Russia supporting a pro western uprising in Ukraine by the Pentagon and CIA and given I've heard nothing from Biden opposing policy re this matter it stands to reason he supported it.

Biden's "I don't respect anybody's red lines " early last year was an abysmal handling of foreign policy......unless you want a war that is.

To be fair he served in an administration that tried to normalize relations with Cuba and Iran so they are good points. A negative was the deplorable exit from Afghanistan

Point is why does @Earl like Biden's geopolitics. Can he at least say what he likes about the Biden administration's foreign policy?

 

[Jux]

Interesting debate, but I’m sorry, I simply can’t take seriously anyone who cites Tucker “I’m not even making this up” Carlson.

 

[Yossarian]

Who knows, he may have.

He would have certainly been in a position to know about them and have major say whether the U.S. got involved and how so as VP.

He would have been heavily briefed and would have been aware of the serious ramifications of superpower rivalry with Russia with any U.S. involvement with the coup in Ukraine.

True, Obama would have had casting vote but they would have been briefed about where things would go with Russia supporting a pro western uprising in Ukraine by the Pentagon and CIA and given I've heard nothing from Biden opposing policy re this matter it stands to reason he supported it.

Biden's "I don't respect anybody's red lines " early last year was an abysmal handling of foreign policy......unless you want a war that is.

To be fair he served in an administration that tried to normalize relations with Cuba and Iran so they are good points. A negative was the deplorable exit from Afghanistan

Point is why does @Earl like Biden's geopolitics. Can he at least say what he likes about the Biden administration's foreign policy?

But this is all pointless speculation. There’s zero evidence to support Biden influencing any of that or benefiting from it. And, once again, the absence of opposition doesn’t equate with support for something. He probably supported the events in Ukraine, why wouldn’t he? It weakened Russia, an opponent of America, and potentially gained a large strategic ally. But again it’s pointless in the context of Joe Biden supposedly benefiting from it.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

But this is all pointless speculation. There’s zero evidence to support Biden influencing any of that or benefiting from it. And, once again, the absence of opposition doesn’t equate with support for something. He probably supported the events in Ukraine, why wouldn’t he? It weakened Russia, an opponent of America, and potentially gained a large strategic ally. But again it’s pointless in the context of Joe Biden supposedly benefiting from it.

This subthread is strictly relating to Biden's handling of foreign policy re @Earls post. Not regarding any other possible scandal.

And If Biden did support it many believe it was a mistake with far reaching and destabilizing consequences.

 

[Tiger5150]

You keep making claims that have been shown to be inaccurate or misleading.

But not false. The only reason I say this is I have been extremely careful,however I acknowledge that interpretation plays a part. You have in good faith (the benefit of the doubt from me) held my feet to the fire in this discussion and where this interpretation comes into play I have made concessions and clarifications.

It’s been explained that the Ukrainian prosecutor was forced out for reasons other than his son’s interest.

You posted an article that said that....at the same time you argue that the "verified" emails arent really verified because it is theoretically possible that they arent. That article you posted simply said that they said it wasnt, no corroboration. It is just the people involved saying "no it wasnt". Hardly conclusive.

it is still a fact that there is an email on Hunter Bidens laptop asking Hunter to get his did to intervene, and his dad intervened. IMO that warrants investigation.

The only “verified” email of any real interest is the claim Joe Biden met with the Ukrainian business man. Biden says it never happened.

Serious question Yoss, please point me to the source you are using that that is the only email that is part of the 22K verified ones. I cant find that information. What is your source that that email is verified but China ones arent?

Notwithstanding that one person says the email re a cut of the $11m being held for Joe Biden, everyone else denies it. The email cannot be proved to be actually sent from Hunter Biden. Joe Biden has released his tax records, presumably there’s no unaccounted for income? I also assume there’s no banking records or any other corroborated evidence to support the claim?

I have seen one report that the payment wasnt made. Regardless if there was intent that should be investigated.

Once again, as I understand it, there was an investigation.

Of what? The laptop information has only been verified since after the election. There clearly hasnt been an investigation since then. Can you point me to information about the investigation?