Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Yossarian]

Woohoo

Now to focus on the getting rid of the Liar in canberra

Yeah cause People Skills Tony never lies. Unless its something not in his notes. Then by his own admission you can't trust him.

Were you out there with the rest of the Flat Earthers waving a placard?

I'll concede that Abbott is hardly a saint, but I don't think he would sell his soul to the Greens. Gillard seems bent on selling us down the proverbial with the Carbon tax just to appease de-facto deputy PM Brown and his merry band of idiots after vehemently denying (as well as Trout-lips Swan,) that it would ever come about.

Unfortunately Yoss, the lies don't stick as much when you're in opposition.

Tony woud sell his soul to the National Party if he had too or the rural independents - you may recall he offered them all sorts of bribes and incentives. I really don't think the CT is anything to do with Brown or Bandt for that matter. I do think the majority of the ALP caucus believe climate change is real and are trying to do something about it. Meanwhile Tony oscillates between hanging with the Flat Earthers/Red necks and advocating a half-assed alternative tax. Governance has to be more than cheap slogans and dumb puns on people's names. Until we hear his policy on the matter it's a bit rich he's running around protesting Labor's policy.

 

[Yossarian]

Na Abbott has sold his sould to the Christian Right.

It is funny listening to the blame game though.

Both Labour and Coalition governments at the Federal level have sold off major assets to make the bottom line look good because the votingpublic is so clueless that is the only figure they concentrate on. Nevermind that in every one of the public companies that have been sold service costs have gone up, quality has come down and jobs that could be kept in Australia are outsourced to the emerging third world nations

Abbott **is** the Christian Right! I do agree with what you say and it is one of the reasons why the ALP is in the bother it is in now. It is too scared to do what it thinks is the right thing to do, too scared to uphold the belief that the state is better placed to be providing some services than the private sector. On things like Medicare and stopping Workchoices, Labor was entitled to feel proud of what it had achieved but now they seem worried by their own shadow.

They should be out there selling this carbon tax as what it is - a vital component in something a lot bigger, i.e. making sure this planet is ready to be abandoned before your kids reach middle age. Hawke, Keating, Beazley, even Rudd had strong principles that they argued hard for and were able to convince middle Australia that they were the right things to do. Gillard and Swan would struggle to convince an alcoholic to visit a brewery. That doesn't make them bad people or politicians, just poor at connecting with the public.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Ease up Gents,

I'm not going in to bat for Abbott, once you push aside the rhetoric and soundbites they're both as untrustworthy as each other. I don't believe for a second that Abbott is merely a better alternative simply because I am opposed to a Carbon tax. I'm merely expressing the point that lies don't account for much when you're in opposition, as the spotlight is always on the government, unless the opposition is going into meltdown of course (post 2007 election for example.)

What I don't appreciate, and I will say from the outset it is folly to believe that politicians are true to their word, that the electorate is dudded into voting for a government that vehemently denies it will be introducing a tax that looks to seriously affect the cost of living, which is much an issue for lower and middle class Australians, and then blatantly go back on it's word. Integrity is the biggest issue in politics at the moment, and we have the prostitution & implosion of the Democrats to thank for that.

 

[Yossarian]

0.79% I think the Demos got last night. It's both amazing and a little sad to see how rapidly they have vanished. Aust politics really needs a viable party in the centre.

 

[system]

I hate the lefto Greeny leanings of the Labour party and their lies.

I find the Christian Right and their lies more abhorrent.

That is all I am saying.

Bang on about the Dems though CB. Kernot and Lees selling out and than the far left takeover led by Bartlett ruined the viable third party vote and left us with the Greenies and the God Botherers

 

[happy_tiger]

0.79% I think the Demos got last night. It's both amazing and a little sad to see how rapidly they have vanished. Aust politics really needs a viable party in the centre.

Suppose it doesn't help that big parties keep poaching all of their talent . Need a strong leader again . Still do ok in SA during federal elections

 

[Yossarian]

0.79% I think the Demos got last night. It's both amazing and a little sad to see how rapidly they have vanished. Aust politics really needs a viable party in the centre.

Suppose it doesn't help that big parties keep poaching all of their talent . Need a strong leader again . Still do ok in SA during federal elections

Poaching talent from other parties? That's how the Democrats got started! Anyway it was one person and that's not why they went bellyup.

 

[happy_tiger]

0.79% I think the Demos got last night. It's both amazing and a little sad to see how rapidly they have vanished. Aust politics really needs a viable party in the centre.

Suppose it doesn't help that big parties keep poaching all of their talent . Need a strong leader again . Still do ok in SA during federal elections

Poaching talent from other parties? That's how the Democrats got started! Anyway it was one person and that's not why they went bellyup.

Every minor party needs a face to survive (Even if its not a pretty face) Don Chipp left party and created own party . And the reason people don't hear much about them is they don't come up stupid radical ideas like some parties they are usually very centred in policies and they don't get press like the family firsts ,one nations and the tree huggers .

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I hate the lefto Greeny leanings of the Labour party and their lies.

I find the Christian Right and their lies more abhorrent.

That is all I am saying.

Bang on about the Dems though CB. Kernot and Lees selling out and than the far left takeover led by Bartlett ruined the viable third party vote and left us with the Greenies and the God Botherers

I'm much in the same boat Smeg. Never have been a staunch supporter of either.

Interesting to note how the independents have copped a bit of a hiding out in the sticks as well. I wonder if Oakeshott and Windsor will have to answer for that?

It's very much a case these days of keeping the worst one out, not voting the best one in. Won't bag the God Botherers out too much as it looks like my uncle will be the CDP member voted in the Legislative Council, and his religious convictions aside, he is a good bloke and geniunely has the community's interests at heart.

EDIT: I will note that I didn't vote for him either, based on the Nile's manifest!

 

[Yossarian]

0.79% I think the Demos got last night. It's both amazing and a little sad to see how rapidly they have vanished. Aust politics really needs a viable party in the centre.

Suppose it doesn't help that big parties keep poaching all of their talent . Need a strong leader again . Still do ok in SA during federal elections

Poaching talent from other parties? That's how the Democrats got started! Anyway it was one person and that's not why they went bellyup.

Every minor party needs a face to survive (Even if its not a pretty face) Don Chipp left party and created own party . And the reason people don't hear much about them is they don't come up stupid radical ideas like some parties they are usually very centred in policies and they don't get press like the family firsts ,one nations and the tree huggers .

I have to disagree. They had Stott Despoja after Kirner. Meg Lees too. Problem wasn't recognition, it was the GST deal. They never recovered after that debacle.

 

[happy_tiger]

All politicians go into to politics with the right ideals ,motives and moral convictions but then are ruined by Party lines and rhetoric . Independants HA are never independant they always lean one way or the other in the end Would the people who voted the independants in last Federal election done so knowing what would have happened and what they chose to do . I think not . I honestly do not trust politicians anymore , they are only their to serve their own interests and stuff the average Joe and Joanne . Lets pay them a lot more so we don't keep monkeys that are happy with peanuts . Reduce their numbers and make us just federal govt get rid of state and keep local govt.

 

[happy_tiger]

Suppose it doesn't help that big parties keep poaching all of their talent . Need a strong leader again . Still do ok in SA during federal elections

Poaching talent from other parties? That's how the Democrats got started! Anyway it was one person and that's not why they went bellyup.

Every minor party needs a face to survive (Even if its not a pretty face) Don Chipp left party and created own party . And the reason people don't hear much about them is they don't come up stupid radical ideas like some parties they are usually very centred in policies and they don't get press like the family firsts ,one nations and the tree huggers .

I have to disagree. They had Stott Despoja after Kirner. Meg Lees too. Problem wasn't recognition, it was the GST deal. They never recovered after that debacle.

Not happy with GST or Democrats for the way they flipped on it . If the latter maybe they saw the light . GST is a good thing .Evened out many indifferences

 

[Yossarian]

Poaching talent from other parties? That's how the Democrats got started! Anyway it was one person and that's not why they went bellyup.

Every minor party needs a face to survive (Even if its not a pretty face) Don Chipp left party and created own party . And the reason people don't hear much about them is they don't come up stupid radical ideas like some parties they are usually very centred in policies and they don't get press like the family firsts ,one nations and the tree huggers .

I have to disagree. They had Stott Despoja after Kirner. Meg Lees too. Problem wasn't recognition, it was the GST deal. They never recovered after that debacle.

Not happy with GST or Democrats for the way they flipped on it . If the latter maybe they saw the light . GST is a good thing .Evened out many indifferences

I think they saw themselves as the permanent balance of power and forgot people were actually voting for them to stand up for a centrist agenda. Whether or not the GST is a good thing or a bad thing wasn't the issue.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

All politicians go into to politics with the right ideals ,motives and moral convictions but then are ruined by Party lines and rhetoric . Independants HA are never independant they always lean one way or the other in the end Would the people who voted the independants in last Federal election done so knowing what would have happened and what they chose to do . I think not . I honestly do not trust politicians anymore , they are only their to serve their own interests and stuff the average Joe and Joanne . Lets pay them a lot more so we don't keep monkeys that are happy with peanuts . Reduce their numbers and make us just federal govt get rid of state and keep local govt.

In the end, independents are inclined to lean one way or the other and they generally have to in order survive. They have their own ideals and motives and will always side with the party that will support them or offer the best concessions, even if that means selling out. Oakeshott, Windsor and that bloke in Tassie sided with the ALP to get their "own way." I don't believe there is such a thing as a true independent, as independents these days largely tow major party lines and rarely ever cross the floor.

Independents rely on leeching onto the larger parties to be seen and heard. You only need refer back to Oakeshott's 18 minute long speech to see he was milking the spotlight for all it was worth, and instead of serving his interests it will most likely backfire and see him voted out in a rather ugly fashion in 2013.

 

[happy_tiger]

But I think your missing my point Why do Greens , Family First get votes. 2 reasons 1/our major parties won't touch things in the too hard basket and which may be decisive and upset voters and the minor parties focus on this. 2/ These parties have faces now when in past they did not and Democrats have none with no hard line out there policies .Why run a hard line policy if they don't have any. When democrats were getting votes they had Lees , Stott Despoya, Kernot Chipp etc . I honestly don't think people vote for parties if they don't know who the leader is .Its not their policies .

 

[happy_tiger]

All politicians go into to politics with the right ideals ,motives and moral convictions but then are ruined by Party lines and rhetoric . Independants HA are never independant they always lean one way or the other in the end Would the people who voted the independants in last Federal election done so knowing what would have happened and what they chose to do . I think not . I honestly do not trust politicians anymore , they are only their to serve their own interests and stuff the average Joe and Joanne . Lets pay them a lot more so we don't keep monkeys that are happy with peanuts . Reduce their numbers and make us just federal govt get rid of state and keep local govt.

In the end, independents are inclined to lean one way or the other and they generally have to in order survive. They have their own ideals and motives and will always side with the party that will support them or offer the best concessions, even if that means selling out. Oakeshott, Windsor and that bloke in Tassie sided with the ALP to get their "own way." I don't believe there is such a thing as a true independent, as independents these days largely tow major party lines and rarely ever cross the floor.

Independents rely on leeching onto the larger parties to be seen and heard. You only need refer back to Oakeshott's 18 minute long speech to see he was milking the spotlight for all it was worth, and instead of serving his interests it will most likely backfire and see him voted out in a rather ugly fashion in 2013.

Agree but why be independant then . We have Liz Cunningham in my area .And I must admit she votes on things that will benefit our area . She has been in for years now .

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

But I think your missing my point **Why do Greens , Family First get votes.** 2 reasons 1/our major parties won't touch things in the too hard basket and which may be decisive and upset voters and the minor parties focus on this. 2/ These parties have faces now when in past they did not and Democrats have none with no hard line out there policies .Why run a hard line policy if they don't have any. When democrats were getting votes they had Lees , Stott Despoya, Kernot Chipp etc . I honestly don't think people vote for parties if they don't know who the leader is .Its not their policies .

Simple. People are tired of being misled by the big two and see the minor parties as being geniune alternatives, even when their policies are even more radical or hardline than the ALP or Liberals. It has nothing to do with the "faces" of the party. Do you honestly believe that Verity Firth and Carmel Tebbutt are going to lose their seats because the Greens have a higher profile community than the likes of Firth and Tebbutt, and not because those electorates are sick of the ALP and see the Greens as the "best alternative?"

 

[happy_tiger]

No for reason 1 Major Parties won't touch issues properly for fear of backlash

 

[Yossarian]

No for reason 1 Major Parties won't touch issues properly for fear of backlash

Sadly I think you're close to the mark there,

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

No for reason 1 Major Parties won't touch issues properly for fear of backlash

What do you think is happening at federal level with the ALP? They've backflipped on the Carbon tax, and despite outrage from the electorate they are sticking to their guns (this time that is,) If that's not tackling a big issue I don't know what is…