Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Rambo2714]

Stryker , when he was asked about the relevance of the 40 yr old tent embassy , (which the aboriginals use as a protest and symbol of thier fight for adequate political rights and equality) he said " slots changed since then and i think it's time for them to move on "

Tony Abbott was implying that he thinks they have enough and they should get over it .

I heard an un named aboriginal elder say " whilst there is still a 'gap' to close , the tent embassy will and must remain "

I could agree with that sentiment more !

In response to Tony Abbotts comments , some of the aboriginal community expressed thier feeling of dissatisfaction with the govt by burning the flag , which to
them is the symbol of the colonial regime which began with genocide of their people and now continues to
Govern them .
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[Rambo2714]

Stryker " explosion of boats " is a ridiculous comment . fewer then 30,000 refugees have made to Australia by boat since the 1970s . Thats less then a thousand per year Australia excepts over 100,000 migrants per year , boat people make up well under 1 percent of our intake .

Right now in the world there is over 80 million displaced refugees. It is fact that of the developed countries taking refugees , Australia takes a disproportionately low number of refugees
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[innsaneink]

Stryker , when he was asked about the relevance of the 40 yr old tent embassy , (which the aboriginals use as a protest and symbol of thier fight for adequate political rights and equality) he said " slots changed since then and i think it's time for them to move on "

Tony Abbott was implying that **he thinks they have enough** and they should get over it .

I heard an un named aboriginal elder say " whilst there is still a 'gap' to close , the tent embassy will and must remain "

I could agree with that sentiment more !

In response to Tony Abbotts comments , some of the aboriginal community expressed thier feeling of dissatisfaction with the govt by burning the flag , which to
them is the symbol of the colonial regime which began with genocide of their people and now continues to
Govern them .
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Posted using RoarFEED

Hmmmm….I think thats just youre take on it.
Only he knows what he was implying if anything at all.
He said "A lot has changed '; **for the better**' in the last 40 years.
I'd agree with him.
They had plenty to protest about 40 years ago....dunno about now.

Im sure if they had everything, some would still want more...its a mindset.

One bloke was heard saying "Give us respect or piss off out of our country"...right after a young girl burnt an Aussie flag.
Where I come from...respect earns respect....burning flags doesnt earn you respect, it earns disdain.

I'd like to know what opportunitys are not available to aboriginal people that are available to the rest of Australians??

 

[hammertime]

Rambo, I think people have different interpretations of what Abbott said. I don't think you can say he directly implied anything without actually being Tony.

I actually took it as positive comments. To me he was saying that we had moved on enough to not need something so dividing as the tent embassy. Anything that distinguishes us from anything but One Australia, I think, keeps a divide there.

I think it does exactly the opposite from closing the gap. It distinguishes us as different and tears us apart. It's reverse racism.

I'm certainly with Stryker. I certainly don't value people on the color of their skin, I value people on their character and ethics. I think most Australians do. The problem Australians have is with generalizing when a certain culture has a higher percentage of un-respectable traits, we tend to paint everyone with the same brush stroke. That's just not right or fair.

As a group, Indigenous people have been a focus for the last 30 years. When I was in the Federal budget, I even was the lead analyst on one of costello's schemes. ICAP, a capital assistance program. It was aimed at reducing the barriers for indigenous business. Even though he didn't say sorry, Howard certainly wanted to help our Indigenous population and tried to do a lot.

When help and genuine intent to make amends is not acknowledged, let alone thrown back in the public face. It will make people mad. People are struggling right now under mountains of bills and the indigenous population has a lot of money going towards it. There are heaps of crown land claims & sell offs to developers, let alone direct assistance.

There will come a time when people will get frustrated and stop trying to help if attitudes change. How long will certain parts of the indigenous population keep firing around the word racism and something that happened 200 years ago as their crutch? Because, that's exactly what it is.

About the boat people, I agree. The media and people give it FAR too much credence for what it's worth. It's important policy because you don't want open borders, but it's far from a defining issue.

 

[hammertime]

Stryker , when he was asked about the relevance of the 40 yr old tent embassy , (which the aboriginals use as a protest and symbol of thier fight for adequate political rights and equality) he said " slots changed since then and i think it's time for them to move on "

Tony Abbott was implying that **he thinks they have enough** and they should get over it .

I heard an un named aboriginal elder say " whilst there is still a 'gap' to close , the tent embassy will and must remain "

I could agree with that sentiment more !

In response to Tony Abbotts comments , some of the aboriginal community expressed thier feeling of dissatisfaction with the govt by burning the flag , which to
them is the symbol of the colonial regime which began with genocide of their people and now continues to
Govern them .
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Posted using RoarFEED

Hmmmm….I think thats just youre take on it.
Only he knows what he was implying if anything at all.
He said "A lot has changed '; **for the better**' in the last 40 years.
I'd agree with him.
They had plenty to protest about 40 years ago....dunno about now.

Im sure if they had everything, some would still want more...its a mindset.

One bloke was heard saying "Give us respect or piss off out of our country"...right after a young girl burnt an Aussie flag.
Where I come from...respect earns respect....burning flags doesnt earn you respect, it earns disdain.

I'd like to know what opportunitys are not available to aboriginal people that are available to the rest of Australians??

I agree Ink. I'm amazed that some Aboriginal population don't ask the question, 'Well what if we had been wiped out?'. That could have easily been the case. 200 years ago we didn't have the same attitudes that we do today about war.

I know that one recent acquisition of Crown Land in Sydney netted a billion dollar sale to a tribe. Magenta Shores was also like that. I don't know where this money goes.

 

[stryker]

Stryker , when he was asked about the relevance of the 40 yr old tent embassy , (which the aboriginals use as a protest and symbol of thier fight for adequate political rights and equality) he said " slots changed since then and i think it's time for them to move on "

Tony Abbott was implying that **he thinks they have enough** and they should get over it .

I heard an un named aboriginal elder say " whilst there is still a 'gap' to close , the tent embassy will and must remain "

I could agree with that sentiment more !

In response to Tony Abbotts comments , some of the aboriginal community expressed thier feeling of dissatisfaction with the govt by burning the flag , which to
them is the symbol of the colonial regime which began with genocide of their people and now continues to
Govern them .
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Posted using RoarFEED

Hmmmm….I think thats just youre take on it.
Only he knows what he was implying if anything at all.
He said "A lot has changed '; **for the better**' in the last 40 years.
I'd agree with him.
They had plenty to protest about 40 years ago....dunno about now.

Im sure if they had everything, some would still want more...its a mindset.

One bloke was heard saying "Give us respect or piss off out of our country"...right after a young girl burnt an Aussie flag.
Where I come from...respect earns respect....burning flags doesnt earn you respect, it earns disdain.

I'd like to know what opportunitys are not available to aboriginal people that are available to the rest of Australians??

Well said Ink, thats pretty much my take on it as well. The interpretation Rambo has offered seems to be the same one that silly staffer passed on to stir some trouble up. Its backfired on him and thankfully an idiot who thinks and tries to manipulate situations as he did is no longer employed.

As for the flag burners, I come from a very proud military family and those scenes infuriated me. That loud mouthed piece of crap who was front and center needs his neck rung.

 

[Rambo2714]

You guys are right it is my interpretation , and although he was not explicite , it is definite that his inference was to dismiss or diminish the relevance of the tent embassy .
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[Yossarian]

Hmmmm….I think thats just youre take on it.
Only he knows what he was implying if anything at all.
He said "A lot has changed '; **for the better**' in the last 40 years.
I'd agree with him.
They had plenty to protest about 40 years ago....dunno about now.

**Im sure if they had everything, some would still want more...its a mindset.**

That was pretty much Warren Mundine's take on things. I think even in the larger Indigenous community the Tent Embassy has a very diverse range of opinion ranging from "it's embarrassing" through "they have a right to protest but knock off the violent stuff" to "it's a non-negotiable essential".

Stuff like this (the tent embassy and the recent protests) just distracts from the real problems - health, standards of living, literacy etc.

 

[happy_tiger]

About a month ago I brought up the plight of Gladstone Harbour since the dredging has begun for the GLNG Curtis Island project
Wondering if anyone caught the Four Corners story on the crisis which is getting increasingly worse

It is amazing that the govt (both state and federal ) has ignored the fact that Curtis Island is World Heritage listed and have totally ignored the complaints of the World Heritage people with the reports they have and how the information is so contradictory

Allso how the remains of the dredging is being dumped within 400 metres of the Great Barrier Reef
and how that isn't affecting the reef Or how the shipping levels are going to increase threefold in and around the Great Barrier Reef and how you plan to build 4 more mega wharves on the Qld coast Port Alma ,Mackay ,Townsville and north of Cooktown
Every report they use is of the information they have collated with their people and are not using external independant information which complains about the large amounts of heavy metals in the waters (Aluminium ,chromium ,arsenic etc) and the increased levels of torpidity since the dredging began

It is a joke how they can say how the dredging hasn't affected the Harbour when you see the pictures of Barramundi ,Blue Salmon with bulging red eyes which eventually literally explode ,covered in lesions ,skin growing over the fishes scales
Sharks with their whole underbody covered in huge red rash
Massive increases in the deaths of turtles and dugongs (tripled) in and around Gladstone
Schools of baitfish dying in huge numbers
How is this going to affect the snubbed fin dolphin a rare breed of Dolphin only found in and around Gladstone and Port Alma area which every person interviewed had no idea what the effects of the changes we are making is goping to affect them
It is funny how Brown and the Greens are backing the Labor party but they allow this to happen to us when they must know full well what is going on (I suppose 60 billion dollars is a lot of reasons to keep quiet)

The thing that irks me most is own our locals Leo Zussino head of the Gladstone Ports Authority can come out and say that it is the fresh water from the floods that is causing the issues Leo be honest we have had floods before now and for many thousands of years before and we have never seen anything like this before .

Also Leo be honest with the Gladstone people next federal election you will be running as the Labor Federal member for our electorate and this is the reason you are making the comments you are making Give a crap about our community for once instead of your own interests

SOS SOS SOS MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY Help Gladstone save our Harbour for the future generations Before i get labelled a Greenie I'm not Just a concerned local recreational fisherman who would like to catch a fish with my grandkids that we could actually eat Or be able to take the kids swimming at our local beaches without worrying whether what is affecting the marine life will affect humans

I have an idea for all the politicians ,ports authority representatives, scientests who say that the Harbour is fine Why don't we have a family fun day at Barney Point beach and you can bring your families and friends for a swim in the harbour Oh you are busy that day Funny that

Before you wonder what this has to do with the Wests Tigers The owner of the local Gladstone Fish Markets who is seen in the Four Corners interview is related to a legend of the Wests Tigers

Well is has started the fisherman of Gladstone and surrounds and related industries are suing the GLNG to the tune of approximately $200 million . This is going to be extremely interesting as due to the local weather conditions has contributed to Lake Awoonga flooding again and almost the exact time of year Lets see if the fish are affected like the State and Federal Govt claimed that the flooding caused last year GLNG have everyone in their pockets even the local press who chose not to run the story which so I have been told is pretty much headline news everywhere else in Qld
Again what has this to do with the Wests Tigers the Co Op owner is related to an ex Wests Tigers player who is probably in most Tigers supporters top 3-4 players of all time

 

[stryker]

You guys are right it is my interpretation , and although he was not explicite , it is definite that his inference was to dismiss or diminish the relevance of the tent embassy .
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Do you still think that now it is starting to emerge that the whole thing was a concoction that was made up to cause a stir by Labor staffers and then the message passed on by the ACTU secretary?

Maybe it was supposed to be an attack on Gillard rather than Abbott? If the rioters took care of her then that would save the party from having to execute a second consectutive PM….See rambo, i can read far too much into something as well.

 

[happy_tiger]

I think the pollsters have been ringing a few on this Forum in regards to their preferences about Gillard over Abbott

It will be interesting to see what happens in March in regards to Gillard and Rudd

When you think about it , the best time for a leadership coup would be just before the state election in Qld

 

[Yossarian]

Nothing will happen before the Qld poll. Neilsen this morning was basically 52/48 which can be spun two ways. If you're in the Gillard camp you can argue it is close enough to win an election from that point. If you're Rudd you can point to the massive lead he has as preferred ALP leader and argue that would translate into at least 2 percentage points and put the ALP in an election winning position.

Rudd still is not in a position to challenge and has the same basic problem he had before (i.e. the lack of a solid factional base). If more NSW MPs swap though the groundswell might overwhelm Gillard.

 

[stryker]

Gillard has been a hopeless Pm…however Rudd was so unpopular with just about everyone bar the 18-21 year olds who knew no better that installing him as Pm to fight the next election will be suicide for the party.

Rudd ws an absolute tyrant as a leader, who managed to upset those with the true power. Personally I could not stand the two faced nerd. He was as fake as it comes. People hated Howard and fair enough but he possessed an attribute that niether of these two will ever have....a backbone. Call it stuborness or whatever, he made a decision and rode it through to its conclusion. He didnt flip flop to public opinion. He was a true leader.

 

[Yossarian]

Yes but we're talking about what action if any Rudd will take… We've already established you hate Gillard and Rudd and admire Howard.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I suppose it all really depends on Gillard. If her public support drops, the ALP have already shown they won't waste any time in giving a leader the arse in the interest of the party. Public opinion of her would have to be pretty poor for Rudd to garner the support he requires to challenge for the leadership IMO.

 

[Yossarian]

I suppose it all really depends on Gillard. If her public support drops, the ALP have already shown they won't waste any time in giving a leader the arse in the interest of the party. Public opinion of her would have to be pretty poor for Rudd to garner the support he requires to challenge for the leadership IMO.

If it was a matter of public opinion she'd already be gone. Every bit of polling points to Rudd being the preferred leader over Gillard. It is only the hostility of sections of the ALP FPP that keeps Rudd out.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I suppose it all really depends on Gillard. If her public support drops, the ALP have already shown they won't waste any time in giving a leader the arse in the interest of the party. Public opinion of her would have to be pretty poor for Rudd to garner the support he requires to challenge for the leadership IMO.

If it was a matter of public opinion she'd already be gone. Every bit of polling points to Rudd being the preferred leader over Gillard. It is only the hostility of sections of the ALP FPP that keeps Rudd out.

I was referring to her public support in comparison to Abbott. If he gets the upper hand on her then the ALP will go into damage control surely.

 

[Chadman_s_Ghost]

If Bligh gets punted (as she deserves), things might start to heat up for Federal Labor. NSW booted them, Qld are likely to…I know State & Federal are different- but I'm pretty sure most political votes are cast regardless of the level of Government- you are either Labor or Liberal at both State & Federal.

Here's your election campaigns for Qld-

Labor- Pics & Video of Bligh & Gillard crying & saying hoe Toowoomba residents are 'strong' and how they 'fought hard' etc, while making sure the girls look sympathetic to the plight. There will be no reference to the state health debacle, or the sale of public assets.

Liberal- Pics & Video of current & former Health ministers as they try to explain the health debacle. Stats about the sale of public assets. Pics of Campbell Newman helping out in the floods.

That's your election campaign.

What policies will they put forward? Does it matter??

 

[Chadman_s_Ghost]

"One bloke was heard saying "Give us respect or piss off out of our country"…right after a young girl burnt an Aussie flag."

Can you imagine the outrage if a Caucasion male burnt an Aboriginal flag outside of Tent City?

Why aren't we outraged & calling this group racist for burning the national flag?

One rule for one, one rule for the other. Until everyone is treated the same, we'll have this situation. Funny thing is- most Aboriginals will agree with that comment- but in today's society, I mean treating white Australians the same as we treat indigenous.

 

[Yossarian]

Burning the Australian flag isn't racist. It is stupid and childish but I wouldn't say racist.
I'm not going to argue Aboriginal aid because it will drag on for pages and nobody will be convinced but I will say this: you can measure equality based on the inputs or the end result. If you have two glasses and want them the same level but one has twice as much as the other, you don't keep pouring the same amount of water in both. Most Aboriginal assistance is aimed at trying to get their living standards to a level somewhere approaching that of non-indigenous Australians. People whinge about what they get but really, how many Aboriginals do you see driving around in Bentleys and living the rich life? People whinge about placements at uni or Abstudy but I can barely remember seeing any Aboriginal students at my uni.