Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[matty_tiepie]

Disability Scheme and the education Bill sounds great but they are broke and have no money for either. Just alot of hot air from a Pm that has lost the plot!!

 

[Yossarian]

Australia is far from broke… You've said the Bills sound good but you still criticise Gillard?
What precisely do you want from her?

 

[happy_tiger]

Australia is far from broke… You've said the Bills sound good but you still criticise Gillard?
What precisely do you want from her?

I don't mind us being in deficit , as long as the money is being used to set our country up for the future whther it be education,hospitals,national highway or replacement future power sources

Yoss ,I think its time to pull down the Julia Gillard posters in your room

Don't worry , I admit of having the Malcolm Turnbull posters at the ready

 

[hammertime]

Australia is far from broke… You've said the Bills sound good but you still criticise Gillard?
What precisely do you want from her?

One reason why we went through the GFC so well is that we had money to spend. With the rest of the world in debt, china slowing down and boomers retiring. We need that back more than ever Yoss.

They can't keep spending!!

 

[happy_tiger]

Australia is far from broke… You've said the Bills sound good but you still criticise Gillard?
What precisely do you want from her?

Well her resignation for starters Yoss would be nice

We can work our way through the other problems with The Labor Party as we go

 

[Tiger_Watto]

This is just a big joke now… The Office of the Prime Minister of Australia should be respected at all times, and I have never disrespected my Country before. But this Gillard is a FOOL and under no circumstances can I stand by and support her.

Please Go Julia... Your bringing this country to tears!!!

 

[Winnipeg]

I don't mind us being in deficit , as long as the money is being used to set our country up for the future whther it be education,hospitals,national highway or replacement future power sources

Labor has invested far more than their predecessors in all of those categories. The NDIS, Education funding, and NBN will all pay economic dividends in the future.

I would suspect that whichever party wins office, they will be having a serious look at their revenue streams, most likely raising the rate or broadening the base of the GST. A proper mining tax would also be of benefit to the country.

Anyway the Juliar hate seems to become more and more irrational. You want her to resign despite the government ticking all of the boxes you've just mentioned?

 

[Yossarian]

Australia is far from broke… You've said the Bills sound good but you still criticise Gillard?
What precisely do you want from her?

I don't mind us being in deficit , as long as the money is being used to set our country up for the future whther it be education,hospitals,national highway or replacement future power sources

Yoss ,I think its time to pull down the Julia Gillard posters in your room

Don't worry , I admit of having the Malcolm Turnbull posters at the ready

Well I supported Rudd not Gillard so I don't have any posters. As Winnipeg points out her government has done a lot of the things you lot complain about. Fair enough if you dislike her party but based on your criteria the 11 years of Howard government were a failure. They did next to nothing in any of the areas nominated and Costello had a lot more money to play with. Instead we got tax cuts.

 

[Yossarian]

Australia is far from broke… You've said the Bills sound good but you still criticise Gillard?
What precisely do you want from her?

One reason why we went through the GFC so well is that we had money to spend. With the rest of the world in debt, china slowing down and boomers retiring. We need that back more than ever Yoss.

They can't keep spending!!

Spending is being cut. In any case budget deficits are vastly over-rated. Long-term we can afford a small deficit this year. Our underlying numbers are nowhere near what happened in Europe or the USA and no, we're not heading that way either. The surplus/deficit thing is, like the asylum seeker debate, driven more by press and short-term politics than anything else.

 

[Flippedy]

Australia is far from broke… You've said the Bills sound good but you still criticise Gillard?
What precisely do you want from her?

I don't mind us being in deficit , as long as the money is being used to set our country up for the future whther it be education,hospitals,national highway or replacement future power sources

Yoss ,I think its time to pull down the Julia Gillard posters in your room

Don't worry , I admit of having the Malcolm Turnbull posters at the ready

Well I supported Rudd not Gillard so I don't have any posters. As Winnipeg points out her government has done a lot of the things you lot complain about. Fair enough if you dislike her party but based on your criteria the 11 years of Howard government were a failure. They did next to nothing in any of the areas nominated and Costello had a lot more money to play with. Instead we got tax cuts.

This is too true! Like I've intimated before, I am not a big supporter of either party - they both irritate me at times, but I have noticed that criticism of Gillard's Govt, from the media and public, is often beyond irrational! I'm sure many of you would be lauding some of the decisions she has made if the Coalition had made them. I think too many people put too much stock in the opinions of the Alan Joneses of the world and lose all sense of reasoning.

Many of the policies the Howard Govt enacted were not good for me, personally either (he cared bugger all about the industry I work in), but I'm still big enough to admit that he made some good decisions for our nation during his time - although blindly playing Deputy Dawg to the US in Iraq wasn't one of them lol.

 

[stryker]

In my perfect political world I would have the ALP designing policies and the Coalition implementing and manging them. That way we recieve the best from both groups and proper governance.

Interesting story I read for those who can be bothered….

ICELAND. No news from Iceland?… why? How come we hear everything that happens in Egypt but no news about what’s happening in Iceland:

In Iceland, the people have made the government resign, the primary banks have been nationalized, it was decided to not pay the debt that these created with Great Britain and Holland due to their bad financial politics and a public assembly has been created to rewrite the constitution.

And all of this in a peaceful way. A whole revolution against the powers that have created the current global crisis. This is why there hasn’t been any publicity during the last two years: What would happen if the rest of the EU citizens took this as an example? What would happen if the US citizens took this as an example.

This is a summary of the facts:

2008\. The main bank of the country is nationalized.
The Krona, the currency of Iceland devaluates and the stock market stops. The country is in bankruptcy

2008\. The citizens protest in front of parliament and manage to get new elections that make the resignation of the prime minister and his whole government.
The country is in bad economic situation.
A law proposes paying back the debt to Great Britain and Holland through the payment of 3,500 million euros, which will be paid by the people of Iceland monthly during the next 15 years, with a 5.5% interest.

2010\. The people go out in the streets and demand a referendum. In January 2010 the president denies the approval and announces a popular meeting.
In March the referendum and the denial of payment is voted in by 93%. Meanwhile the government has initiated an investigation to bring to justice those responsible for the crisis, and many high level executives and bankers are arrested. The Interpol dictates an order that make all the implicated parties leave the country.

In this crisis an assembly is elected to rewrite a new Constitution which can include the lessons learned from this, and which will substitute the current one (a copy of the Danish Constitution).
25 citizens are chosen, with no political affiliation, out of the 522 candidates. For candidacy all that was needed was to be an adult and have the support of 30 people. The constitutional assembly starts in February of 2011 to present the ‘carta magna’ from the recommendations given by the different assemblies happening throughout the country. It must be approved by the current Parliament and by the one constituted through the next legislative elections.

So in summary of the Icelandic revolution:
-resignation of the whole government
-nationalization of the bank.
-referendum so that the people can decide over the economic decisions.
-incarcerating the responsible parties
-rewriting of the constitution by its people

Have we been informed of this through the media?
Has any political program in radio or TV commented on this?
No! The Icelandic people have been able to show that there is a way to beat the system and has given a democracy lesson to the world.

 

[happy_tiger]

I don't mind us being in deficit , as long as the money is being used to set our country up for the future whther it be education,hospitals,national highway or replacement future power sources

Labor has invested far more than their predecessors in all of those categories. The NDIS, Education funding, and NBN will all pay economic dividends in the future.

I would suspect that whichever party wins office, they will be having a serious look at their revenue streams, most likely raising the rate or broadening the base of the GST. A proper mining tax would also be of benefit to the country.

Anyway the Juliar hate seems to become more and more irrational. You want her to resign despite the government ticking all of the boxes you've just mentioned?

NBN for what we are spending to implement it and what we will get back in my opinion is a waste of money

I would of rather seen it spent on finding alternative power sources which leave none or little carbon footprint

Gillard and Swan are a lot like a blindfolded gunman with a AK 47 Fire enough rounds of policies off and eventually you'll hit something useful

Explain how the mining tax is working to the 600 hundred people that Xstrata have laid off with more than 200 more to follow and the mine closures that are affecting towns and the people in them And they are pushing a lot of their operations offshore to focus on works overseas Is that what you wanted when the mining tax was implemented Winnipeg ??

If it was , who's the irrational one, because this is what most people warned Gillard and her Treasurer of the Year Swan would happen

 

[Winnipeg]

NBN for what we are spending to implement it and what we will get back in my opinion is a waste of money

Nobody knows what we will get back from it. It will form the backbone of communications in Australia for something like the next 40 years. Think how far technology has come in 40 years. Even 20 years ago there was not really such a thing as E Commerce, and these days internet advertising is worth more than any other form of advertising.
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I would of rather seen it spent on finding alternative power sources which leave none or little carbon footprint

The government has plenty of other policies regarding renewable energy, they don’t discount the need for a broadband network. Also I find it hard to understand how you can call for investment in renewable energy while also lamenting job losses in the coal industry, they go together, so choose one or the other to complain about.
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Explain how the mining tax is working to the 600 hundred people that Xstrata have laid off with more than 200 more to follow and the mine closures that are affecting towns and the people in them And they are pushing a lot of their operations offshore to focus on works overseas Is that what you wanted when the mining tax was implemented Winnipeg ??

I’ve lost my job before and it is not pleasant, I would never try to make light of someone in that situation

But the cold hard fact is that mining does not employ that many people in Australia

‘Despite its export importance, the mining sector employs only a small proportion of the workforce – roughly 129,000 Australians, representing only about 2.2% of the total labour force’

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Australia#Economics

If you are concerned about job losses, maybe start with the manufacturing sector, they have lost many thousands more jobs than mining. Partly because of the high dollar, which is partly because of the mining boom. A properly designed mining tax (which actually raises revenue) could help take the heat out of the mining sector and lower the dollar, which would help manufacturing no end.

I know you’ve got an ‘inside man’ at Xstrata but I would still like it explained in detail how a mining tax that does not raise revenue can cause job losses. Also Happy I hope you are expressing the same sort of venom for Campbell Newman that you do for Gillard after the Qld Govt raised mining royalties.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-11/mining-royalties-rise-will-kill-qld-economy-palmer/4255096
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If it was , who's the irrational one, because this is what most people warned Gillard and her Treasurer of the Year Swan would happen

Xstrata were involved in negotiating the Mineral Resources Rent Tax so I guess they partly have themselves to blame?

 

[happy_tiger]

Two questions

I see we have a new scheme (maybe not so new) where we are know sending refugees to rural areas for employment where they have to work a minimum of 30 hours in groups of 2-3 workers to the same business , but the government pays their rent and subsidise transport cost

I can see this being helpful to many businesses in my town but I don't understand this We had many local families not involved in the LNG project or the Alumina industry that were forced out of Gladstone where they were born and bred

Why didn't the Federal Govt offer rental assistance to these families to keep them in our town to start with ??

I understand that LNG offered help to some of these families in the way of assistance with basically food vouchers \stamps every fortnight but many people missed out as they did not meet the strict agendas set by LNG

Question 2 Got my power bill yesterday and compared to previous years it is extremely high

Doh you might say Happy , but its seems strange my bill for the last quarter was quite a bit lower than normal for that time of year

I'm just wondering (another Happy conspiracy theory :laughing: )that the Govt had privately ask the the electricity suppliers to go easy due to the importance of the Carbon tax to them and then told them to make up the difference in the next bill

The reason I say this My brother in law had been living with us during the last power quarter which should of ramped up our hot water bill which it didn't But he has been out Biloela on a project and been gone for most of the quarter and with the warm weather up here I haven't been having hot showers for at least 2 months and our hot water has gone through the roof

Something doesn't add up to Happy

 

[Tiger_Watto]

just pay the bill and shut up mate :roll

 

[matty_tiepie]

The NBN is sucj an overspend its not funny. It will blow out to around 60 Billion Dollars which IMO is ridiculous.

Chna is rolling out just about the same thing although slightly slower spped For 1 Billion People for a third of the cost of ours.

Now i know China dont pay their workers as much so labour costs would be down but put tha in Perspective.

1 BILLION PEOPLE COST 12 BILLION

24 MILLIN PEOPLE 45 BILLION AND CLIMBING.
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The NBN Co itself Just all pay themselves big bonuses and the take up rate is 25-30% in the areas that are getting this service for bugger all and not many people want it.

The Government sais they need 80% take up rate to make any money by something like 2020.

As always Labour Could not run a chook raffle without stuffing it up. I wont say they cant arrange a r–- in a brothel because that is something they can do. Just ask Craig Thonpson.

 

[happy_tiger]

just pay the bill and shut up mate :roll

I'll wait until you get the bill for the palace and see what you think :laughing:

Next thing you'll be rounding up all your mates from Langlands Park and starting a protest march

Seriously though , its gone up over 20 percent with one less adult living in the house and the hot water aspect is wearing all of the increase and its been bloody hot up here for an age

 

[Winnipeg]

Question 2 Got my power bill yesterday and compared to previous years it is extremely high

Doh you might say Happy , but its seems strange my bill for the last quarter was quite a bit lower than normal for that time of year

I'm just wondering (another Happy conspiracy theory :laughing: )that the Govt had privately ask the the electricity suppliers to go easy due to the importance of the Carbon tax to them and then told them to make up the difference in the next bill

The reason I say this My brother in law had been living with us during the last power quarter which should of ramped up our hot water bill which it didn't But he has been out Biloela on a project and been gone for most of the quarter and with the warm weather up here I haven't been having hot showers for at least 2 months and our hot water has gone through the roof

Something doesn't add up to Happy

did you check the days you were billed for? A mate of mine got an extra large bill but it turns out he was billed for an unusual number of days, like 20 extra days or something.

Also electricity is billed by the States, did you ever think maybe they're doing this to create extra large bills that misinformed people might blame on the carbon tax? Maybe a similar stunt to Tony Abbott holding up a bill in Parliament containing a massive carbon tax price rise, when it turned out that the person had actually just used more electricity?

 

[Glen_McWilliams]

I got a massive bill a couple of months ago which I immediately queried.
Turned out they had kept open the account from the last place I lived, charged for a period on that, added some other connection fee which was then deducted, then added back. To add garnish to the calamity, they were reading from the meter on the house next door. Got it sorted quick smart.
Hard to gauge if our power has gone up by much if at all as we have moved into a larger house this year. But I can't say either bill we have received has raised any alarms (well, neither of the legitimate bills)

 

[Winnipeg]

The NBN is sucj an overspend its not funny. It will blow out to around 60 Billion Dollars which IMO is ridiculous.

Chna is rolling out just about the same thing although slightly slower spped For 1 Billion People for a third of the cost of ours.

Now i know China dont pay their workers as much so labour costs would be down but put tha in Perspective.

1 BILLION PEOPLE COST 12 BILLION

24 MILLIN PEOPLE 45 BILLION AND CLIMBING.
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The NBN Co itself Just all pay themselves big bonuses and the take up rate is 25-30% in the areas that are getting this service for bugger all and not many people want it.

The Government sais they need 80% take up rate to make any money by something like 2020.

As always Labour Could not run a chook raffle without stuffing it up. I wont say they cant arrange a r–- in a brothel because that is something they can do. Just ask Craig Thonpson.

That story in The Australian is the stupidest story of the entire year.

- Labour costs as you pointed out
- OHS? nah. If a worker dies, we'll just drag the corpse off and find someone else
- China's 'NBN' is hoping for top speeds of 20Mbit/s, Australia's is aiming at 100Mbit/s… is that 'slightly slower'? That's five times as slow.
- The city of Shanghai has about the same amount of people as Australia, yet Australia is about the same size as China. Saying that 'they can do X people for Y dollars' is a completely useless comparison.

I guess News Ltd only ran with this story to point out that Australia would be way better off as a communist country right?

or maybe The Australian = News Ltd = Foxtel might be feeling a bit threatened by the NBN and the possibility of streaming TV