Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Tiger_Watto]

um… they do? if im on 200k i pay more tax as a percentage than if im on 30k

I'm talking about the 30k bloke… He should pay his 30%!

Well, when i said 4k i was including the fact that gillard implemented an 18k tax free threshold. So removing that, that single parent on minimum wage is now paying 9k in taxes…. he/she has 21k left. that is hardly fair....

Well Its not fair that I have to pay more either and not receive any additional benefits from the tax system…

Since we want to be nice to them, what extra benefits should I get for paying her way?

An express lane on that highway would be good or maybe my vote should be waited more, rather than a single vote?

[ :laughing: Labor would never be elected again if voting was waited on how much you pay ]

 

[happy_tiger]

Worst thing is, i have a good feeling the economy will do a lot better next year given the dollar is now weak (our exports are cheaper, growth goes up) and Liberal will get all the credit. They've been really lucky with the mining boom, ousted just before the GFC and put back in, in a likely recovery.

Obviously, i dont know for sure if it'll be better. Greece could suddenly default tomorrow, but not likely.

Lucky …........................ Are you kidding me

If it wasn't for the Coalition setting us up so well in the first place , Labor would not of been able to ride the GFC out as well as they did

Again, the coalition DID NOT CAUSE THE MINING BOOM. that's hundreds of billions of dollars growing at well over 8% per year. The tax was flowing in like there's no tomorrow, like they do today the treasury would get the revenue prediction wrong, except back then they'd predict too low a revenue while now they predict it too high.

So good job on them collecting money, not knowing what to do with it and setting it aside. The GST, that's fair the was an unpopular decision (i think) but a good one. But, in terms of 'hard' decisions, it was as unpopular but still good for the economy (or environment) as the carbon tax. If you are against making carbon intensive practices more expensive to discourage them then i can't help you.

Labor are the ones that actually implemented the stimulus package, one of the, if not THE quickest and best targetted stimulus package in the world which allowed us to keep growing during 2009! An amazing feat. For reference, Britain is only **now** getting their GDP back to where they were in 2007\. 0% growth in 6 years. We've achieved something like 15% real growth.

Edit: Although they got in the GST, they also raised the highest tax bracket from 80k to 180k, or something equally as short sighted, and we're still facing the issues from that, since that meant less equal taxation and less taxation.

The best targeted stimulus package :roll

Your Gerry Harvey aren't you

A well implemented stimulus package would of been spread out over 3-4 payments

All that happened in my business was I had 2 sales records weeks and plummeted below my previous figures

 

[Winnipeg]

Unlike most Labor supporters I will give the the Coalition the benefit of the doubt until they screw up Winnipeg

And my objective opinion , I can't give you one at this stage the Coalition have been in power for 3 days now

Personally , I think we need a conservative approach with the world economy at the stage it is at ,something that in my opinion Abbott will supply better than Rudd

My vote was a fine balancing act , was still tossing up Saturday morning who I would vote for

As many people have said , Abbott in power will be far different than Abbott in opposition

fair enough then.

I hope you hold Abbott to as high a standard as the Labor government was held. I think it will be quite noticeable how certain elements of the media who went hard against Labor will give Tony an absolute free ride on a number of issues.

What about this for instance. Abbott says he will make a difference to border protection 'from day one'. Since he was elected there have been three boats arrive. Indonesia has rejected elements of his asylum policy already:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-12/indonesia-rejects-abbotts-asylum-plan/4954574

the Coalition has also indicated that they're not going to be announcing when boats arrive regardless, ergo keeping the problem out of sight, out of mind for the wider public.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/election/a/-/article/18775934/coalition-may-censor-boat-arrivals/

at what point will you think Tony broken his 'stop the boats' promise on this issue?

 

[Glen_McWilliams]

The entertainment is just beginning:

http://www.afr.com/p/national/meet_clive_palmer_tony_abbott_new_iM7oThrD0bm5WygpJNHKuM

 

[pHyR3]

Worst thing is, i have a good feeling the economy will do a lot better next year given the dollar is now weak (our exports are cheaper, growth goes up) and Liberal will get all the credit. They've been really lucky with the mining boom, ousted just before the GFC and put back in, in a likely recovery.

Obviously, i dont know for sure if it'll be better. Greece could suddenly default tomorrow, but not likely.

Lucky …........................ Are you kidding me

If it wasn't for the Coalition setting us up so well in the first place , Labor would not of been able to ride the GFC out as well as they did

Again, the coalition DID NOT CAUSE THE MINING BOOM. that's hundreds of billions of dollars growing at well over 8% per year. The tax was flowing in like there's no tomorrow, like they do today the treasury would get the revenue prediction wrong, except back then they'd predict too low a revenue while now they predict it too high.

So good job on them collecting money, not knowing what to do with it and setting it aside. The GST, that's fair the was an unpopular decision (i think) but a good one. But, in terms of 'hard' decisions, it was as unpopular but still good for the economy (or environment) as the carbon tax. If you are against making carbon intensive practices more expensive to discourage them then i can't help you.

Labor are the ones that actually implemented the stimulus package, one of the, if not THE quickest and best targetted stimulus package in the world which allowed us to keep growing during 2009! An amazing feat. For reference, Britain is only **now** getting their GDP back to where they were in 2007\. 0% growth in 6 years. We've achieved something like 15% real growth.

Edit: Although they got in the GST, they also raised the highest tax bracket from 80k to 180k, or something equally as short sighted, and we're still facing the issues from that, since that meant less equal taxation and less taxation.

The best targeted stimulus package :roll

Your Gerry Harvey aren't you

A well implemented stimulus package would of been spread out over 3-4 payments

All that happened in my business was I had 2 sales records weeks and plummeted below my previous figures

Haha, I'll just quote Gary Bakerloo, "It was split into three parts:

1\. Cash payments - immediately into the economy
2\. Short - medium term infrastructure - one to two years
3\. Long term infrastructure - five plus years"

The long term is STILL being injected into the economy via the National Building Program ($60 billion over 10 years).

Just ebcause every part of the stimulus wasn't targetted at your business doesn't mean it wasn't there or effective. Again I'll use the UK as an example, 0% growth in the last 6 years. Absolutely zilch.

Edit: And although you were very quick to laud Howard/Liberal for the GST, you didn't talk about how they raised the highest tax level from 80k to 180k which i mentioned before. That lowered revenue a LOT, and it's almost impossible for a gvmt to raise taxes. So we have to wait for bracket creep. As incomes rise over time they begin to be counted in higher tax brackets and pay more tax.

 

[Gary_Bakerloo]

The best targeted stimulus package :roll

OECD seemed to think it was alright:

http://www.theage.com.au/business/oecd-praise-for-canberras-stimulus-package-20090916-froi.html

Key strengths: size and speed

 

[Saturnalia]

I've had two power outages since Tony became PM

The electrons are angry.

 

[Yossarian]

Unlike most Labor supporters I will give the the Coalition the benefit of the doubt until they screw up Winnipeg

And my objective opinion , I can't give you one at this stage the Coalition have been in power for 3 days now

Personally , I think we need a conservative approach with the world economy at the stage it is at ,something that in my opinion Abbott will supply better than Rudd

My vote was a fine balancing act , was still tossing up Saturday morning who I would vote for

As many people have said , Abbott in power will be far different than Abbott in opposition

fair enough then.

I hope you hold Abbott to as high a standard as the Labor government was held. I think it will be quite noticeable how certain elements of the media who went hard against Labor will give Tony an absolute free ride on a number of issues.

What about this for instance. Abbott says he will make a difference to border protection 'from day one'. Since he was elected there have been three boats arrive. Indonesia has rejected elements of his asylum policy already:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-12/indonesia-rejects-abbotts-asylum-plan/4954574

the Coalition has also indicated that they're not going to be announcing when boats arrive regardless, ergo keeping the problem out of sight, out of mind for the wider public.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/election/a/-/article/18775934/coalition-may-censor-boat-arrivals/

at what point will you think Tony broken his 'stop the boats' promise on this issue?

Well my newly-elected Coalition MP ran on two main issues - Stop the boats and more jobs. So I assume if unemployment doesn't fall and the boats aren't stopped she'll be resigning and won't contest the next election? It's time these people were heard accountable for their "contracts" - this isn't the NRL, contracts mean something!!

 

[Eye_Of_Da_Tiger]

The change will do the world of good.Gee that Rudd was an absolute dirty egotistical back stabing nut. Abbott , well time will tell?

 

[Flippedy]

So our new PM announces his cabinet and there is not one (NOT ONE!) minister appointed for the Aged Care, Disability, Mental Health or Climate Change portfolios! Obviously not important enough for Tony 'I only care about big business' Abbott.

Fair dinkum if this bloke destroys all the good work that Labor did setting up the National Disability Insurance Scheme and the Living Longer, Living Better Aged Care reforms I'll bloody go down to Canberra and, personally, kick him up the ass! He cares nothing for the vulnerable in our society and has zero concern for the elderly people, who built our nation, save token, hollow rhetoric once a year on Anzac Day.

 

[pHyR3]

What's with the whole we're pro jobs stance. No one cares you're pro jobs, everyone is bloody pro jobs. What are you gonna DO to make more jobs!!

 

[Yossarian]

What's with the whole we're pro jobs stance. No one cares you're pro jobs, everyone is bloody pro jobs. What are you gonna DO to make more jobs!!

Well that's it isn't it? There were a lot of motherhood statements - world-class, five pillars etc. Seeing as though two of the pillars don't seem to warrant a cabinet position it's looking a bit flimsly but we'll see. Given the current global volatility it is a massive call for anyone to claim they're going to create jobs particularly with the current set of policies and a starting point of shedding over 10k in the APS.

 

[hammertime]

So our new PM announces his cabinet and there is not one (NOT ONE!) minister appointed for the Aged Care, Disability, Mental Health or Climate Change portfolios! Obviously not important enough for Tony 'I only care about big business' Abbott.

Fair dinkum if this bloke destroys all the good work that Labor did setting up the National Disability Insurance Scheme and the Living Longer, Living Better Aged Care reforms I'll bloody go down to Canberra and, personally, kick him up the ass! He cares nothing for the vulnerable in our society and has zero concern for the elderly people, who built our nation, save token, hollow rhetoric once a year on Anzac Day.

Tony Abbott was the Employment and Workplace relations minister when the ICAP scheme was introduced to provide low interest loans for indigenous people to start their own business initiatives

Also, when he was health minister he instituted reform called the Nurse Family partnerships, which was about protecting indigenous children from abusive families.

When the Bali bombings occured, he was there to assist with what the people needed. Including organising for people to be flown urgently to Singapore for necessary medical treatment.

So, i'm not sure he's exactly heartless. I think he has more depth then he shows.

Aged funding is a tricky slope. Project any increase out into the forward estimates and you'll see why.

 

[Winnipeg]

It's not his fault there's only one woman of calibre in his cabinet. It's someone else's fault

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/mcgowan-blamed-lack-women-cabinet

Tell me again about the adults being in charge

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

um… they do? if im on 200k i pay more tax as a percentage than if im on 30k

I'm talking about the 30k bloke… He should pay his 30%!

Well, when i said 4k i was including the fact that gillard implemented an 18k tax free threshold. So removing that, that single parent on minimum wage is now paying 9k in taxes…. he/she has 21k left. that is hardly fair....

Well Its not fair that I have to pay more either and not receive any additional benefits from the tax system…

Since we want to be nice to them, what extra benefits should I get for paying her way?

An express lane on that highway would be good or maybe my vote should be waited more, rather than a single vote?

[ :laughing: Labor would never be elected again if voting was waited on how much you pay ]

As someone who pays quite a decent amount of tax, I have no issue with the way the system is. I don't mind paying more than someone who earns half than I. I still maintain a very comfortable lifestyle (albeit work dominated,) and that person who earns half that I do won't and as a result should get a tax break to make things a little easier for them.

The only gripe I have with the tax system is the amount of tax money that gets pissed away in frivolous government spending, and constant harping by those who say that people whom earn well and help fund the bulk of infrastructure in this country should be pushed into private education and healthcare systems and not utilise the systems they pay a large chunk out of their salary to maintain.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

It's not his fault there's only one woman of calibre in his cabinet. It's someone else's fault

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/mcgowan-blamed-lack-women-cabinet

Tell me again about the adults being in charge

I couldn't care less about how many women he has/hasn't got on the bench. As long as they are the most qualified person for that position that is the main concern. I cannot stand this notion of token positions so as not be be seen as sexist/racist etc.

I have no faith in whomever the LNP appoint irrespective of their gender.

 

[happy_tiger]

["]um… they do? if im on 200k i pay more tax as a percentage than if im on 30k

I'm talking about the 30k bloke… He should pay his 30%!

Well, when i said 4k i was including the fact that gillard implemented an 18k tax free threshold. So removing that, that single parent on minimum wage is now paying 9k in taxes…. he/she has 21k left. that is hardly fair....

Well Its not fair that I have to pay more either and not receive any additional benefits from the tax system…

Since we want to be nice to them, what extra benefits should I get for paying her way?

An express lane on that highway would be good or maybe my vote should be waited more, rather than a single vote?

[ :laughing: Labor would never be elected again if voting was waited on how much you pay ]

As someone who pays quite a decent amount of tax, I have no issue with the way the system is. I don't mind paying more than someone who earns half than I. I still maintain a very comfortable lifestyle (albeit work dominated,) and that person who earns half that I do won't and as a result should get a tax break to make things a little easier for them.

The only gripe I have with the tax system is the amount of tax money that gets pissed away in frivolous government spending, and constant harping by those who say that people whom earn well and help fund the bulk of infrastructure in this country should be pushed into private education and healthcare systems and not utilise the systems they pay a large chunk out of their salary to maintain.
Mate both side of politics can fritter money away

Lets hope the Coalition can get it right for all our sakes Whether you are either side of politics we should be wishing the best

The next 15 years will be critical times for various reasons

 

[Flippedy]

So our new PM announces his cabinet and there is not one (NOT ONE!) minister appointed for the Aged Care, Disability, Mental Health or Climate Change portfolios! Obviously not important enough for Tony 'I only care about big business' Abbott.

Fair dinkum if this bloke destroys all the good work that Labor did setting up the National Disability Insurance Scheme and the Living Longer, Living Better Aged Care reforms I'll bloody go down to Canberra and, personally, kick him up the ass! He cares nothing for the vulnerable in our society and has zero concern for the elderly people, who built our nation, save token, hollow rhetoric once a year on Anzac Day.

Tony Abbott was the Employment and Workplace relations minister when the ICAP scheme was introduced to provide low interest loans for indigenous people to start their own business initiatives

Also, when he was health minister he instituted reform called the Nurse Family partnerships, which was about protecting indigenous children from abusive families.

When the Bali bombings occured, he was there to assist with what the people needed. Including organising for people to be flown urgently to Singapore for necessary medical treatment.

So, i'm not sure he's exactly heartless. I think he has more depth then he shows.

Aged funding is a tricky slope. Project any increase out into the forward estimates and you'll see why.

Fair enough, Hammer, maybe I'm being a bit harsh on Abbott, personally. It's more the Liberal govt, on the whole, that has a track record for either ignoring or downgrading the human relations/welfare portfolios once they take control.

Mark Butler, who was the Minister for Ageing in Gillard's govt, worked extremely hard to get his aged care reform legislation passed, which I, and many others, are right now in the process of helping to implement, in our work with various aged care providers. Aged Care was in desperate need of an overhaul, since it has been operating on the same system created about 25 years ago.

Butler's 10 year plan to address the challenges of an ageing population, which would give older people and their families more choice, better access and a much fairer and sustainable aged care system, was brilliant and I would really hate to see this all be dismantled because the new govt doesn't rate caring for the elderly high on their political agenda. It's easy for governments to forget about these people, once they are no longer working and paying taxes, but these people have paid their dues and they are the ones who have helped to build this nation to what it is today - I think they deserve better.

How Abbott's Govt will fare handling Aged Care in the future only time will tell I guess, but _not_ naming a Minister to look after the portfolio, when the new Cabinet was sworn in, is not a good start, imo.

 

[system]

So our new PM announces his cabinet and there is not one (NOT ONE!) minister appointed for the Aged Care, Disability, Mental Health or Climate Change portfolios! Obviously not important enough for Tony 'I only care about big business' Abbott.

Fair dinkum if this bloke destroys all the good work that Labor did setting up the National Disability Insurance Scheme and the Living Longer, Living Better Aged Care reforms I'll bloody go down to Canberra and, personally, kick him up the ass! He cares nothing for the vulnerable in our society and has zero concern for the elderly people, who built our nation, save token, hollow rhetoric once a year on Anzac Day.

Tony Abbott was the Employment and Workplace relations minister when the ICAP scheme was introduced to provide low interest loans for indigenous people to start their own business initiatives

Also, when he was health minister he instituted reform called the Nurse Family partnerships, which was about protecting indigenous children from abusive families.

When the Bali bombings occured, he was there to assist with what the people needed. Including organising for people to be flown urgently to Singapore for necessary medical treatment.

So, i'm not sure he's exactly heartless. I think he has more depth then he shows.

Aged funding is a tricky slope. Project any increase out into the forward estimates and you'll see why.

Which is what you would expect any normal, decent human being would do. Big deal. It's basic human nature.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[Glen_McWilliams]

Had to chuckle watching Colin Barnett on Lateline last night. Justifying his state's economy losing its AAA credit rating due to his government borrowing big and saving nothing. The hubris he had shown at the peak of the mining boom, his "Australia should learn from WA" attitude, has quickly punctured. His justification was the tough global economic times we live in, volatile commodity prices, the high Austrlain dollar. All excuses that were unacceptable for a Labor Federal Government but seemingly are fine for a Liberal Government. Give me a spell.

He will lead his state through the largest mining boom in our history and come out the other side with nothing but a mountain of debt and $11 pints of VB. The short sightedness of his government has been astounding.