Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[cqtiger]

Holden Gone 2017…

Well done to Australian Unions for losing another Aussie Icon!

I am far from a union supporter but I don't think it would be fair to ask aussie car workers to accept the same pay rates as South Koreans, Malaysians, Chinese etc

Also, less than 30% of aussies buy aussie made cars. So Ford, Holden & Toyota have been behind the 8 ball for quite some time. I've owned all 3 of these models over the years and the old adage is certainly true - you get what you pay for.

I drive a BMW now and couldn't be happier

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[happy_tiger]

Holden Gone 2017…

Well done to Australian Unions for losing another Aussie Icon!

I am far from a union supporter but I don't think it would be fair to ask aussie car workers to accept the same pay rates as South Koreans, Malaysians, Chinese etc

Also, less than 30% of aussies buy aussie made cars. So Ford, Holden & Toyota have been behind the 8 ball for quite some time. I've owned all 3 of these models over the years and the old adage is certainly true - you get what you pay for.

I drive a BMW now and couldn't be happier

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Toyota is easily the best of the three Any person who buys a first of any model of Holden or Ford need their heads read :crazy

They usually get them right on the third or fourth go

 

[happy_tiger]

Actually to add to the Holden debate ,I wonder if Holden had made the decision to pull the pin a few years ago but waited until the Coalition were in power knowing full well that they would let Holden go ??

Whereas Labor would of went in throwing billions everywhere to support their Union brothers and not let Holden go

I'm not saying that either party is or was right or wrong , but it makes some sense from Holden's point of view and they don't end up looking like the bad guys in all of this

 

[Winnipeg]

Holden might have been already on the way out, Abbott may just be unlucky that it happened on his watch, but boy, he is going to pay a political price for it.

Watto, good work blaming the unions but you forgot to also blame the carbon price :unamused:

Actually to add to the Holden debate ,I wonder if Holden had made the decision to pull the pin a few years ago but waited until the Coalition were in power knowing full well that they would let Holden go ??

Whereas Labor would of went in throwing billions everywhere to support their Union brothers and not let Holden go

I'm not saying that either party is or was right or wrong , but it makes some sense from Holden's point of view and they don't end up looking like the bad guys in all of this

let Holden leave? huh? You think Labor can force companies not to shut up shop?

The car industry may well be an inefficiency that the Australian economy is better off without, but there will be short term pain, and I don't think Abbott will be around to come out the other side of it. He seems to be rather lacking in inspirational speeches and grand visions for the future of this country.

 

[happy_tiger]

Holden might have been already on the way out, Abbott may just be unlucky that it happened on his watch, but boy, he is going to pay a political price for it.

Watto, good work blaming the unions but you forgot to also blame the carbon price :unamused:

Actually to add to the Holden debate ,I wonder if Holden had made the decision to pull the pin a few years ago but waited until the Coalition were in power knowing full well that they would let Holden go ??

Whereas Labor would of went in throwing billions everywhere to support their Union brothers and not let Holden go

I'm not saying that either party is or was right or wrong , but it makes some sense from Holden's point of view and they don't end up looking like the bad guys in all of this

let Holden leave? huh? You think Labor can force companies not to shut up shop?

The car industry may well be an inefficiency that the Australian economy is better off without, but there will be short term pain, and I don't think Abbott will be around to come out the other side of it. He seems to be rather lacking in inspirational speeches and grand visions for the future of this country.

If Labor had won the last election and then agreed to pump a few billion into the automotive industry Holden couldn't and wouldn't have backed out in my opinion

With the coalition in power , Holden had the perfect storm knowing they would get less funding

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

RE: Holden leaving. Good move on their part.

Pumping millions into a company in subsidies that still cannot compete with overseas manufacturers who have tariffs imposed on their vehicles. Maybe we'll see cheaper Holdens with possibly even better quality. I bought a 2010 VE brand new and I'll vouch that they are only built to last the warranty period.

Don't see why it was always the taxpayers' responsibility to ensure the survival of a private enterprise?

 

[cqtiger]

Winniepeg
I don't believe that we will see politicians, of any persuasion, with grand visions of our country. They are all short sighted because they are all part of the party machine.

Look at Rudd's insulation quick fix disaster and his mining tax debacle to name a few. Gillard's laughable mining tax re-hash and her wonderful child care pay increase to a minority of those workers - the ones who were union members only.

For all his faults, Gough Whitlam probably was the only visionary that I can remember but he was surrounded by imbeciles.

However, this is not a new phenomenon. All politicians since the ancient Greeks have been greedy and self-serving

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[Tim Sheens]

Sorry cattle industry, but we are a better country than many of those you are selling your stock to.
After seeing the latest round of barbaric slaughter footage that has reached our shores, it is time to once again revisit our safeguards before letting them leave, and more control when they land.

However, **if** the practices that I and no doubt most people that will read this have seen footage of by now, are as common (normal) as depicted, then surely we must stop exporting live stock to these countries.

 

[supercoach]

What is more cost effective,propping up the car industry with tax payers dollars or having thousands of extra people on the dole. South Australia really struggle for employment opportunities in the good times, now they are stuffed. My view is we have to get smart, a car industry in Australia is doomed for many reasons,small local demand,high export costs,high dollar and expensive labor cost compared to third world countries. So we have to specialize and make high tech,high yield products.

My greatest fear is after the mining boom has burnt out, what do we have left and will become a third world country,the signs are not good.

Anyway the government is in a hard place with the car industry, they help them out and Qantas and every other Aussie business that is struggling in the GLOBAL market place will be banging their door down.Their is the other side to coin,once you let a skilled work force go its very hard to ever get them back again.

I think the Abbott Government is struggling on a lot of fronts at present, but its early days and I think its a very good time to be in opposition or in cricket terms it was a great toss to loose

 

[Newtown]

Winniepeg
I don't believe that we will see politicians, of any persuasion, with grand visions of our country. They are all short sighted because they are all part of the party machine.

Look at Rudd's insulation quick fix disaster and his mining tax debacle to name a few. Gillard's laughable mining tax re-hash and her wonderful child care pay increase to a minority of those workers - the ones who were union members only.

For all his faults, Gough Whitlam probably was the only visionary that I can remember but he was surrounded by imbeciles.

However, this is not a new phenomenon. All politicians since the ancient Greeks have been greedy and self-serving

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You forget to mention the grand NBN debacle. Did Australia really need NBN over the need for better equipped hospitals, schools and employment opportunities etc?

 

[cqtiger]

Well it is blatantly obvious now that Labour's tactics of holding onto "dead duck" leader Julia Gillard for as long as they did was to try and falsify as many policies before they left office.

This would leave the coalition with a lot of unpopular decisions to make when the truth was revealed. Labour would then be in a position to prattle their broken promises slogans.

The latest effort being the NBN rollout. The numbers being revealed for the coalition option being $12 billion short. A closer look reveals that labour's own estimates are $29 billion underestimated!

Quote:
"The original corporate plan underestimated the costs, overestimated what are the real world experiences revenues and what households are prepared to pay,"
Unquote.

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[supercoach]

The big question with the NBN, will the average Aussie in Regional and remote Australia be able to afford to foot the ever increasing gap between what the Government is prepared to pay and what the consumer is going to be asked to pay.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

The big question with the NBN, will the average Aussie in Regional and remote Australia be able to afford to foot the ever increasing gap between what the Government is prepared to pay and what the consumer is going to be asked to pay.

Internet is a luxury, not a need… This goes for all Australians, If they want it, they pay for it!

 

[happy_tiger]

The big question with the NBN, will the average Aussie in Regional and remote Australia be able to afford to foot the ever increasing gap between what the Government is prepared to pay and what the consumer is going to be asked to pay.

Internet is a luxury, not a need… This goes for all Australians, If they want it, they pay for it!

Agree , but I know of people who live in Gladstone who can't even get internet or phone reception

Bloody ridiculous :brick:

 

[Winnipeg]

'Internet is a luxury'

Deadset

Where do you think the jobs of the future will come from, especially with manufacturing being left to die?

 

[happy_tiger]

'Internet is a luxury'

Deadset

Where do you think the jobs of the future will come from, especially with manufacturing being left to die?

But what else can we do with manufacturing Winnipeg ,honestly

If we can compete internationally with a product that's fine , but in the majority of cases we can't

Businesses don't want quality products anymore , they want stuff made cheap that the consumer has to replace 2-3 in the lifetime of something that would of lasted as long as three of those things 30 years ago

We can't subsidise everyone so we compete , we need to think smarter in this day and age

The world is changing and we need to change with it

 

[Kul]

The big question with the NBN, will the average Aussie in Regional and remote Australia be able to afford to foot the ever increasing gap between what the Government is prepared to pay and what the consumer is going to be asked to pay.

The "Average Aussie"?

89% of the population live in an urban centre.
75% of the population live in a major city/centre (Syd, Gold Coast, Geelong, etc)

25% of Australia's GDP is generated in Sydney alone.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

'Internet is a luxury'

Deadset

Where do you think the jobs of the future will come from, especially with manufacturing being left to die?

There will be plenty of jobs that wont need to rely on the Internet buddy… If it doesn't exist, corporations and businesses will find a way around it. We have done so for 100's of years :unamused:

 

[Anthism]

'Internet is a luxury'

Deadset

Where do you think the jobs of the future will come from, especially with manufacturing being left to die?

There will be plenty of jobs that wont need to rely on the Internet buddy… If it doesn't exist, corporations and businesses will find a way around it. We have done so for 100's of years :unamused:

Not in this day and age.
Australia needs to be competitive in science and technology…. Let's face it the Coalition is doing a horrible job for that ATM.
Internet is NOT a luxury at all and it's stances like this that are going to time machine us so we can't keep up with the rest of the world.

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[Tiger_Watto]

look out… the apocalypse is coming!