Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[jadtiger]

I have just watched a very stirring speach on the BBC by Arnold Scwarzenegger who as i am sure you know was an actor and a Republican governor of California probably the most important state in the USA.
During it he talks about his childhood in Austria where he was born not long after WW2 and the long lasting effects of the Nazi regime on his upbringing.He goes on to call Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon the worst president in Americas history and urges all Americans to support Biden in uniting the country.I hope they listen and the Republican party can once again become a party which once again supports the right wing of politics and not the neo nazi ideals it has been lurching towards over the last 4 years

 

[mike]

I have just watched a very stirring speach on the BBC by Arnold Scwarzenegger who as i am sure you know was an actor and a Republican governor of California probably the most important state in the USA.
During it he talks about his childhood in Austria where he was born not long after WW2 and the long lasting effects of the Nazi regime on his upbringing.He goes on to call Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon the worst president in Americas history and urges all Americans to support Biden in uniting the country.I hope they listen and the Republican party can once again become a party which once again supports the right wing of politics and not the neo nazi ideals it has been lurching towards over the last 4 years

Go Arnie.

 

[TillLindemann]

However, the storming of the Capitol was a direct action to subvert the confirmation of the election (i.e. their democratic process,) it was a very deliberate attempt by a minor percentage of the population to stop something that a majority of the population decided upon. It was rebellious disorder, the very definition of sedition

Rebellious disorder is not the definition of sedition, and if it is we're in trouble, because a politician could twist those words to cover just about any protest.

Even the phrase 'storming the Capitol' I find hysterical (I'm not having a go at you, the phrase is being used by plenty).
It was a bunch of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon fan boys who protested the election was robbed. A dumb belief, but they have the right to believe it. They broke into parliament momentarily, then were turfed out. They didn't stay to launch a coup.

99% of the protestors are no better or worse than the thousands of people protesting this time 4 years ago that the elections were stolen by Putin.


Their intent was to subvert the democratic process so yes, it was rebellious and it was seditious. You don’t get to just redefine words because they don’t suit your desire to cast the events in as benign a light as possible.

The phrase “storm the Capitol “ was used by people organising the event, so why would people not pick it up and infer that that was their intent given they said it was?

'Subverting the democratic process' can mean anything. The protest was rebellious, yes, but protesting who is to be president based on a conspiracy theory is not sedition. And if it is, protesting for Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon to be removed 4 years ago on the conspiracy theory belief that he's a Russian agent is also sedition. Protestors who tried to 'storm' the Senate 2 years ago to stop Brett Kavanaugh's appointment to the Supreme Court is also sedition by that definition. The 'Adbusters' self-described plan to lay siege to the Whitehouse last September is also sedition by that approach.

Can't argue with your second paragraph, you gave me a knock out blow there.

 

[TillLindemann]

The paper that was suspended by Twitter before the election (with Twitter after the election saying this was a mistake) sums up the hypocrisy of current righteous indignation:

https://nypost.com/2021/01/08/rage-at-capitol-assault-makes-excuses-for-summer-riots-all-the-more-disgraceful/

 

[TillLindemann]

Unpopular opinion:
I do not agree with the the Capitol protestors message (of course the election was not 'stolen'. Biden won, get over it).
But I completely agree with their right to carry out the protest.
To call it 'terrorism', 'insurrection', 'an attempted coup', or 'treason' is laughable and hysterical.

It was a brief occupation of a symbolic space, which is a time-honoured protest tactic. The Australian parliament has been occupied by protestors numerous times.

The reaction to the protest is far more threatening to democracy and freedom than the protest itself. Because we're now going to see increased crackdowns on legitimate protest, increased political surveillance, increased suppression and distrust of unpopular political opinions...

People cheering these developments on because they're targeted at Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters, might be shocked in the future when a Dick Cheney-type uses such hysteria about 'terrorism and treason' against them.



5 people died in that protest,from memory i dont believe anyone has ever died in a protest here at Parliament house.loaded weapons where also confiscated in Washington and 2 PIPE BOMBS placed.That to me is far more than just a "protest"

Dozens of people died throughout 2020 BLM protests. Whole city blocks were burned down. Businesses destroyed. Police stations were invaded and burnt down. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters were shot, stabbed, and beaten. This doesn't mean BLM protests are 'terrorism', it means there were violent lunatics at the fringe.

99% of the Capitol crowd were carrying flags, not weapons. If those 99% are charged with terrorism and sedition, we may as well just give up on the right to protest completely.

There's only one person who should be charged and that's Donald Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. And, won't it be a great day when it happens ??!!

Did Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon place the pipe bomb,was Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon carrying a weapon..?..you can hate the bloke as much as you like,Im no fan,but the individuals who were seeking violence or harm should be the ones held responsible,if they are dumb enough to storm a govt building carrying weapons,then they should be made an example of.....let justice prevail along the correct pathway...

Charles Manson didn’t kill anybody either.

Hitler probably didn't kill anyone personally either

Well, he killed Hitler at least.

Hopefully Don takes a leaf out of Dolfs book

In our new age of puritanism, were it said about any other politician this comment would be called incitement to violence and hate speech.

 

[mike]

@TillLindemann I would like to ask you a straight forward question. Do you support Donald Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon?

 

[TillLindemann]

@TillLindemann I would like to ask you a straight forward question. Do you support Donald Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon?

No, he's an utter clown. Seriously.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Just as I wrote as it played out the other day, let's not kid ourselves, January 6th 2020 is now forever amongst the most momentous days in the history of the US and yes, it will be remembered alongside the likes of 9/11 and Gettysburg as a dark stain that truly blackened the nation and changed it forever.

I know it is hard for some to accept that they were part of it and agree with @jadtiger above on Arnie, who explained it well below.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1348249481284874240

https://twitter.com/i/status/1348293638648782851

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

However, the storming of the Capitol was a direct action to subvert the confirmation of the election (i.e. their democratic process,) it was a very deliberate attempt by a minor percentage of the population to stop something that a majority of the population decided upon. It was rebellious disorder, the very definition of sedition

Rebellious disorder is not the definition of sedition, and if it is we're in trouble, because a politician could twist those words to cover just about any protest.

Even the phrase 'storming the Capitol' I find hysterical (I'm not having a go at you, the phrase is being used by plenty).
It was a bunch of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon fan boys who protested the election was robbed. A dumb belief, but they have the right to believe it. They broke into parliament momentarily, then were turfed out. They didn't stay to launch a coup.

99% of the protestors are no better or worse than the thousands of people protesting this time 4 years ago that the elections were stolen by Putin.

It was not Pearl Harbour, just same old America.

Firstly, yeah, rebellious disorder is the definition of sedition: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sedition

Secondly, do you think the time they chose to overrun the Capitol building was deliberate, or purely coincidence? Supporters of the incumbent President chose to hit the place when the confirmation of the next President was taking place, who incidentally, was not the incumbent after being incited by none other than the incumbent to do so.

And yes, 99% of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon voters are fine in the grand scheme of things, they didn't partake and I don't view them as a whole as there are a range of reasons as to why one votes for a candidate or party. I for example generally vote for the ALP, but I am by personal experience not complimentary of unions, as many business owners will likely vote conservative even if they have socially progressive ideals because the conservatives will deliver the best direct outcome for their livelihood. Specifically referring to the ones who did partake, they are nutcases enabled by the head of state. Difference was that 4 years ago people squealed on the Internet via lame hashtags and had nervous breakdowns in public squares about the Donald being elected. I don't remember people wearing "I'm with her" T-shirts storming the Capitol building and beating police to death while the Donald was being confirmed. That's false equivalence.

 

[earl]

Unpopular opinion:
I do not agree with the the Capitol protestors message (of course the election was not 'stolen'. Biden won, get over it).
But I completely agree with their right to carry out the protest.
To call it 'terrorism', 'insurrection', 'an attempted coup', or 'treason' is laughable and hysterical.

It was a brief occupation of a symbolic space, which is a time-honoured protest tactic. The Australian parliament has been occupied by protestors numerous times.

The reaction to the protest is far more threatening to democracy and freedom than the protest itself. Because we're now going to see increased crackdowns on legitimate protest, increased political surveillance, increased suppression and distrust of unpopular political opinions...

People cheering these developments on because they're targeted at Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters, might be shocked in the future when a Dick Cheney-type uses such hysteria about 'terrorism and treason' against them.



5 people died in that protest,from memory i dont believe anyone has ever died in a protest here at Parliament house.loaded weapons where also confiscated in Washington and 2 PIPE BOMBS placed.That to me is far more than just a "protest"

Dozens of people died throughout 2020 BLM protests. Whole city blocks were burned down. Businesses destroyed. Police stations were invaded and burnt down. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters were shot, stabbed, and beaten. This doesn't mean BLM protests are 'terrorism', it means there were violent lunatics at the fringe.

99% of the Capitol crowd were carrying flags, not weapons. If those 99% are charged with terrorism and sedition, we may as well just give up on the right to protest completely.

There's only one person who should be charged and that's Donald Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. And, won't it be a great day when it happens ??!!

Did Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon place the pipe bomb,was Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon carrying a weapon..?..you can hate the bloke as much as you like,Im no fan,but the individuals who were seeking violence or harm should be the ones held responsible,if they are dumb enough to storm a govt building carrying weapons,then they should be made an example of.....let justice prevail along the correct pathway...

Charles Manson didn’t kill anybody either.

Hitler probably didn't kill anyone personally either

I actually think Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is akin to Hitler. For all the people that want this to be a left and right issue it isn't.

The right typically believe in law and order, small government, low taxes and fiscal responsibility. That isn't Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is a populist autocrat. He doesn't believe in anything other than getting power and placating his ego.

The republican party has massive issues because they have a large following from people that believe in conspiracy theories and are racists.

I'm disappointed in Scott Morrison in not speaking up against him. I can't support a PM who doesn't speak up against Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. I view it as politicians placating the Nazi party. I typically vote liberal but I will have to vote for another party based on his actions. I feel it's that bad.

I should add that there are republicans who recognize this.

 

[TillLindemann]

However, the storming of the Capitol was a direct action to subvert the confirmation of the election (i.e. their democratic process,) it was a very deliberate attempt by a minor percentage of the population to stop something that a majority of the population decided upon. It was rebellious disorder, the very definition of sedition

Rebellious disorder is not the definition of sedition, and if it is we're in trouble, because a politician could twist those words to cover just about any protest.

Even the phrase 'storming the Capitol' I find hysterical (I'm not having a go at you, the phrase is being used by plenty).
It was a bunch of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon fan boys who protested the election was robbed. A dumb belief, but they have the right to believe it. They broke into parliament momentarily, then were turfed out. They didn't stay to launch a coup.

99% of the protestors are no better or worse than the thousands of people protesting this time 4 years ago that the elections were stolen by Putin.

It was not Pearl Harbour, just same old America.

Firstly, yeah, rebellious disorder is the definition of sedition: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sedition

Secondly, do you think the time they chose to overrun the Capitol building was deliberate, or purely coincidence? Supporters of the incumbent President chose to hit the place when the confirmation of the next President was taking place, who incidentally, was not the incumbent after being incited by none other than the incumbent to do so.

And yes, 99% of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon voters are fine in the grand scheme of things, they didn't partake and I don't view them as a whole as there are a range of reasons as to why one votes for a candidate or party. I for example generally vote for the ALP, but I am by personal experience not complimentary of unions, as many business owners will likely vote conservative even if they have socially progressive ideals because the conservatives will deliver the best direct outcome for their livelihood. Specifically referring to the ones who did partake, they are nutcases enabled by the head of state. Difference was that 4 years ago people squealed on the Internet via lame hashtags and had nervous breakdowns in public squares about the Donald being elected. I don't remember people wearing "I'm with her" T-shirts storming the Capitol building and beating police to death while the Donald was being confirmed. That's false equivalence.

The definition you link to is prefaced with the word *archaic* i.e. no, it is not a current definition at all, it was a definition back in the days of feudalism, when creating a ruckus was breaching the king's peace and would see you off to the gallows.

And yes of course the date they chose was deliberate. They (wrongly) felt they were robbed, and they went to the Capitol to protest against it.

I've stated repeatedly that whoever was involved in beating the cop to death are scum and should spend the rest of their days in gaol for murder.

Equally, whoever laid pipebombs at the Republican party and Democratic party headquarters is a terrorist (the pipebombs were NOT found at the protest in the capitol, as has been repeatedly suggested, and nobody yet knows who planted them)

But temporarily protesting in a parliament, putting your feet up on a politicians desk, etc, is not terrorism nor insurrection.

I realise I'm not convincing anybody, I'm just yelling at clouds, so I'll stop cluttering up the forum on this topic. Peace!

 

[trentrunciman]

Just as I wrote as it played out the other day, let's not kid ourselves, January 6th 2020 is now forever amongst the most momentous days in the history of the US and yes, it will be remembered alongside the likes of 9/11 and Gettysburg as a dark stain that truly blackened the nation and changed it forever.

I know it is hard for some to accept that they were part of it and agree with @jadtiger above on Arnie, who explained it well below.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1348249481284874240

https://twitter.com/i/status/1348293638648782851

Today is a day that will live in infamy!

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

However, the storming of the Capitol was a direct action to subvert the confirmation of the election (i.e. their democratic process,) it was a very deliberate attempt by a minor percentage of the population to stop something that a majority of the population decided upon. It was rebellious disorder, the very definition of sedition

Rebellious disorder is not the definition of sedition, and if it is we're in trouble, because a politician could twist those words to cover just about any protest.

Even the phrase 'storming the Capitol' I find hysterical (I'm not having a go at you, the phrase is being used by plenty).
It was a bunch of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon fan boys who protested the election was robbed. A dumb belief, but they have the right to believe it. They broke into parliament momentarily, then were turfed out. They didn't stay to launch a coup.

99% of the protestors are no better or worse than the thousands of people protesting this time 4 years ago that the elections were stolen by Putin.

It was not Pearl Harbour, just same old America.

Firstly, yeah, rebellious disorder is the definition of sedition: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sedition

Secondly, do you think the time they chose to overrun the Capitol building was deliberate, or purely coincidence? Supporters of the incumbent President chose to hit the place when the confirmation of the next President was taking place, who incidentally, was not the incumbent after being incited by none other than the incumbent to do so.

And yes, 99% of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon voters are fine in the grand scheme of things, they didn't partake and I don't view them as a whole as there are a range of reasons as to why one votes for a candidate or party. I for example generally vote for the ALP, but I am by personal experience not complimentary of unions, as many business owners will likely vote conservative even if they have socially progressive ideals because the conservatives will deliver the best direct outcome for their livelihood. Specifically referring to the ones who did partake, they are nutcases enabled by the head of state. Difference was that 4 years ago people squealed on the Internet via lame hashtags and had nervous breakdowns in public squares about the Donald being elected. I don't remember people wearing "I'm with her" T-shirts storming the Capitol building and beating police to death while the Donald was being confirmed. That's false equivalence.

The definition you link to is prefaced with the word *archaic* i.e. no, it is not a current definition at all, it was a definition back in the days of feudalism, when creating a ruckus was breaching the king's peace and would see you off to the gallows.

And yes of course the date they chose was deliberate. They (wrongly) felt they were robbed, and they went to the Capitol to protest against it.

I've stated repeatedly that whoever was involved in beating the cop to death are scum and should spend the rest of their days in gaol for murder.

Equally, whoever laid pipebombs at the Republican party and Democratic party headquarters is a terrorist (the pipebombs were NOT found at the protest in the capitol, as has been repeatedly suggested, and nobody yet knows who planted them)

But temporarily protesting in a parliament, putting your feet up on a politicians desk, etc, is not terrorism nor insurrection.

I realise I'm not convincing anybody, I'm just yelling at clouds, so I'll stop cluttering up the forum on this topic. Peace!

No issues mate, and there's no ill-will at my end. I'm always happy to debate something with someone who wants to reciprocate respect and the like.

You can still refer to definition #1, they were trying to disrupt government action to carry out the democratic process. If that's not rebellious or discontent against a government then nothing is.

We both have different ideas on it. That's cool. You have thought your opinion out and that's OK. We can choose to agree to disagree mate.

 

[Tiger5150]

Unpopular opinion:
I do not agree with the the Capitol protestors message (of course the election was not 'stolen'. Biden won, get over it).
But I completely agree with their right to carry out the protest.
To call it 'terrorism', 'insurrection', 'an attempted coup', or 'treason' is laughable and hysterical.

It was a brief occupation of a symbolic space, which is a time-honoured protest tactic. The Australian parliament has been occupied by protestors numerous times.

The reaction to the protest is far more threatening to democracy and freedom than the protest itself. Because we're now going to see increased crackdowns on legitimate protest, increased political surveillance, increased suppression and distrust of unpopular political opinions...

People cheering these developments on because they're targeted at Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters, might be shocked in the future when a Dick Cheney-type uses such hysteria about 'terrorism and treason' against them.



5 people died in that protest,from memory i dont believe anyone has ever died in a protest here at Parliament house.loaded weapons where also confiscated in Washington and 2 PIPE BOMBS placed.That to me is far more than just a "protest"

Dozens of people died throughout 2020 BLM protests. Whole city blocks were burned down. Businesses destroyed. Police stations were invaded and burnt down. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters were shot, stabbed, and beaten. This doesn't mean BLM protests are 'terrorism', it means there were violent lunatics at the fringe.

99% of the Capitol crowd were carrying flags, not weapons. If those 99% are charged with terrorism and sedition, we may as well just give up on the right to protest completely.

There's only one person who should be charged and that's Donald Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. And, won't it be a great day when it happens ??!!

Did Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon place the pipe bomb,was Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon carrying a weapon..?..you can hate the bloke as much as you like,Im no fan,but the individuals who were seeking violence or harm should be the ones held responsible,if they are dumb enough to storm a govt building carrying weapons,then they should be made an example of.....let justice prevail along the correct pathway...

Charles Manson didn’t kill anybody either.

Hitler probably didn't kill anyone personally either

***I actually think Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is akin to Hitler***. For all the people that want this to be a left and right issue it isn't.


I'm disappointed in Scott Morrison in not speaking up against him. I can't support a PM who doesn't speak up against Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. ***I view it as politicians placating the Nazi party.*** I typically vote liberal but I will have to vote for another party based on his actions. I feel it's that bad.

I totally understand the anger and even hate to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon, but there should be some balance. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is a bad president, he is a fool and dangerous to the extent that he clearly incited the protests which turned into the storming of the capital which led to 5 deaths. Even 1 death is one too many. The actions of the Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporting nutjobs are indefensible and Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon clearly incited them. Trumps actions, particularly in the last 4 months attack democracy and are disgraceful. But at the end of the day, the system worked and he will be gone in days.

Hitler was directly responsible for the deaths of between 6-10M people, the majority of which were killed based on their race/culture.

 

[innsaneink]

Unpopular opinion:
I do not agree with the the Capitol protestors message (of course the election was not 'stolen'. Biden won, get over it).
But I completely agree with their right to carry out the protest.
To call it 'terrorism', 'insurrection', 'an attempted coup', or 'treason' is laughable and hysterical.

It was a brief occupation of a symbolic space, which is a time-honoured protest tactic. The Australian parliament has been occupied by protestors numerous times.

The reaction to the protest is far more threatening to democracy and freedom than the protest itself. Because we're now going to see increased crackdowns on legitimate protest, increased political surveillance, increased suppression and distrust of unpopular political opinions...

People cheering these developments on because they're targeted at Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters, might be shocked in the future when a Dick Cheney-type uses such hysteria about 'terrorism and treason' against them.



5 people died in that protest,from memory i dont believe anyone has ever died in a protest here at Parliament house.loaded weapons where also confiscated in Washington and 2 PIPE BOMBS placed.That to me is far more than just a "protest"

Dozens of people died throughout 2020 BLM protests. Whole city blocks were burned down. Businesses destroyed. Police stations were invaded and burnt down. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters were shot, stabbed, and beaten. This doesn't mean BLM protests are 'terrorism', it means there were violent lunatics at the fringe.

99% of the Capitol crowd were carrying flags, not weapons. If those 99% are charged with terrorism and sedition, we may as well just give up on the right to protest completely.

There's only one person who should be charged and that's Donald Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. And, won't it be a great day when it happens ??!!

Did Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon place the pipe bomb,was Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon carrying a weapon..?..you can hate the bloke as much as you like,Im no fan,but the individuals who were seeking violence or harm should be the ones held responsible,if they are dumb enough to storm a govt building carrying weapons,then they should be made an example of.....let justice prevail along the correct pathway...

Charles Manson didn’t kill anybody either.

Hitler probably didn't kill anyone personally either

I actually think Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is akin to Hitler. For all the people that want this to be a left and right issue it isn't.

The right typically believe in law and order, small government, low taxes and fiscal responsibility. That isn't Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is a populist autocrat. He doesn't believe in anything other than getting power and placating his ego.

The republican party has massive issues because they have a large following from people that believe in conspiracy theories and are racists.

I'm disappointed in Scott Morrison in not speaking up against him. I can't support a PM who doesn't speak up against Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. I view it as politicians placating the Nazi party. I typically vote liberal but I will have to vote for another party based on his actions. I feel it's that bad.

I should add that there are republicans who recognize this.

Probbaly closer to Goebbels

 

[mike]

However, the storming of the Capitol was a direct action to subvert the confirmation of the election (i.e. their democratic process,) it was a very deliberate attempt by a minor percentage of the population to stop something that a majority of the population decided upon. It was rebellious disorder, the very definition of sedition

Rebellious disorder is not the definition of sedition, and if it is we're in trouble, because a politician could twist those words to cover just about any protest.

Even the phrase 'storming the Capitol' I find hysterical (I'm not having a go at you, the phrase is being used by plenty).
It was a bunch of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon fan boys who protested the election was robbed. A dumb belief, but they have the right to believe it. They broke into parliament momentarily, then were turfed out. They didn't stay to launch a coup.

99% of the protestors are no better or worse than the thousands of people protesting this time 4 years ago that the elections were stolen by Putin.

It was not Pearl Harbour, just same old America.

Firstly, yeah, rebellious disorder is the definition of sedition: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sedition

Secondly, do you think the time they chose to overrun the Capitol building was deliberate, or purely coincidence? Supporters of the incumbent President chose to hit the place when the confirmation of the next President was taking place, who incidentally, was not the incumbent after being incited by none other than the incumbent to do so.

And yes, 99% of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon voters are fine in the grand scheme of things, they didn't partake and I don't view them as a whole as there are a range of reasons as to why one votes for a candidate or party. I for example generally vote for the ALP, but I am by personal experience not complimentary of unions, as many business owners will likely vote conservative even if they have socially progressive ideals because the conservatives will deliver the best direct outcome for their livelihood. Specifically referring to the ones who did partake, they are nutcases enabled by the head of state. Difference was that 4 years ago people squealed on the Internet via lame hashtags and had nervous breakdowns in public squares about the Donald being elected. I don't remember people wearing "I'm with her" T-shirts storming the Capitol building and beating police to death while the Donald was being confirmed. That's false equivalence.

The definition you link to is prefaced with the word *archaic* i.e. no, it is not a current definition at all, it was a definition back in the days of feudalism, when creating a ruckus was breaching the king's peace and would see you off to the gallows.

And yes of course the date they chose was deliberate. They (wrongly) felt they were robbed, and they went to the Capitol to protest against it.

I've stated repeatedly that whoever was involved in beating the cop to death are scum and should spend the rest of their days in gaol for murder.

Equally, whoever laid pipebombs at the Republican party and Democratic party headquarters is a terrorist (the pipebombs were NOT found at the protest in the capitol, as has been repeatedly suggested, and nobody yet knows who planted them)

But temporarily protesting in a parliament, putting your feet up on a politicians desk, etc, is not terrorism nor insurrection.

I realise I'm not convincing anybody, I'm just yelling at clouds, so I'll stop cluttering up the forum on this topic. Peace!

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, § 1, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

The acts on Capital Hill were acts of Sedition. They were trying to overturn a lawful election.

 

[Papacito]

Unpopular opinion:
I do not agree with the the Capitol protestors message (of course the election was not 'stolen'. Biden won, get over it).
But I completely agree with their right to carry out the protest.
To call it 'terrorism', 'insurrection', 'an attempted coup', or 'treason' is laughable and hysterical.

It was a brief occupation of a symbolic space, which is a time-honoured protest tactic. The Australian parliament has been occupied by protestors numerous times.

The reaction to the protest is far more threatening to democracy and freedom than the protest itself. Because we're now going to see increased crackdowns on legitimate protest, increased political surveillance, increased suppression and distrust of unpopular political opinions...

People cheering these developments on because they're targeted at Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters, might be shocked in the future when a Dick Cheney-type uses such hysteria about 'terrorism and treason' against them.



5 people died in that protest,from memory i dont believe anyone has ever died in a protest here at Parliament house.loaded weapons where also confiscated in Washington and 2 PIPE BOMBS placed.That to me is far more than just a "protest"

Dozens of people died throughout 2020 BLM protests. Whole city blocks were burned down. Businesses destroyed. Police stations were invaded and burnt down. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters were shot, stabbed, and beaten. This doesn't mean BLM protests are 'terrorism', it means there were violent lunatics at the fringe.

99% of the Capitol crowd were carrying flags, not weapons. If those 99% are charged with terrorism and sedition, we may as well just give up on the right to protest completely.

There's only one person who should be charged and that's Donald Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. And, won't it be a great day when it happens ??!!

Did Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon place the pipe bomb,was Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon carrying a weapon..?..you can hate the bloke as much as you like,Im no fan,but the individuals who were seeking violence or harm should be the ones held responsible,if they are dumb enough to storm a govt building carrying weapons,then they should be made an example of.....let justice prevail along the correct pathway...

Charles Manson didn’t kill anybody either.

Hitler probably didn't kill anyone personally either

***I actually think Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is akin to Hitler***. For all the people that want this to be a left and right issue it isn't.


I'm disappointed in Scott Morrison in not speaking up against him. I can't support a PM who doesn't speak up against Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. ***I view it as politicians placating the Nazi party.*** I typically vote liberal but I will have to vote for another party based on his actions. I feel it's that bad.


I totally understand the anger and even hate to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon, but there should be some balance. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is a bad president, he is a fool and dangerous to the extent that he clearly incited the protests which turned into the storming of the capital which led to 5 deaths. Even 1 death is one too many. The actions of the Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporting nutjobs are indefensible and Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon clearly incited them. Trumps actions, particularly in the last 4 months attack democracy and are disgraceful. But at the end of the day, the system worked and he will be gone in days.

Hitler was directly responsible for the deaths of between 6-10M people, the majority of which were killed based on their race/culture.

Agree.

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon will have a special page in history for trying to overthrow democracy and letting the poor unnecessarily perish in the face of covid, but for mine, the parallel to Hitler isn't there.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I agree the comparisons to Hitler are hyperbolic.

Maybe he is Hitleresque in his cult of personality and certain mannerisms, but he hasn't instituted government sponsored genocide or anything to that magnitude.

 

[earl]

I agree the comparisons to Hitler are hyperbolic.

Maybe he is Hitleresque in his cult of personality and certain mannerisms, but he hasn't instituted government sponsored genocide or anything to that magnitude.

I don't think it's hyperbolic. I'm not stating he has done anything near as bad as what Hitler did. I'm stating that they use the same tactics. They appeal to bigots. They lie. They use populist appeals to a certain demographic and people get caught up in it when they are easily led.

He has appealed to weak people that lack integrity. That is exactly what Hitler did. You don't realize where you are going until it's too late. If Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon could take power by force he would. He doesn't care that racists and bigots support him. In fact he encourages it.

Listen to Arnie's comments who is a republican.

 

[shiretiger]

I actually think Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is akin to Hitler.

What utter tosh and to use that spurious argument is an insult to the victims and survivors of Nazism.