Potential signings or giving the young guns a go?

[tigertye]

Hope everyone's ready for some rabbit soup on Friday!!!

There's talk around about potential signings of English prop James Graham and Adam Blair. Interested to know how the Tigers are going to afford these players, and what effect this may have on our squad and the young forwards we've introduced over the last few seasons and are developing well?

Should we be giving new contracts to the likes of FIfita, Woods, Murdoch-Masila, the Shirnacks, Lui, Moltzen?

Is signing a big name forward the best option or would we be better off signing a gun fullback or winger who can kick goals a wiser long term option or should mullaney get a shot?

What does everyone think?

 

[Geo]

We breed better and they are cheaper…

1 Prop never goes astray.....James Graham...otherwise continue to foster youth....

 

[Balmain_Tiger]

we need to think about how much football they have left under their belt i suppose

 

[Demps]

Keep it in the family.
I think we should sign Moltz, Lui, Fifita, Woods & Murdoch-Masila to long term contracts
and continue developing the youngsters who will get their chance someday
(Jacob Miller definitely needs to be in the future plans)

 

[hammertime]

I agree. It's bad when you see loyal blokes like Mullany have to sit in reggies because we sign someone like McKinnon (who really isn't setting the world on fire).

If we have amazing juniors coming up in the positions, I think we should have our focus on them. That means not signing Graham/Blair and signing the props of Woods, Fifita & Roqica.

Sironen will become a 2nd rower, with Dwyer and of course we have BMM there also.

We even have some gun wingers coming up in Koribete and Tagive.

I honestly can't think where we need to sign anyone. As long as we have good senior role models to guide the juniors, like Lote on the wing, Ellis/Heino in the 2nd row and Sauce in the props, then focus on the juniors.

 

[Team_Tiger]

Keep it in the family.
I think we should sign Moltz, Lui, Fifita, Woods & Murdoch-Masila to long term contracts
and continue developing the youngsters who will get their chance someday
(Jacob Miller definitely needs to be in the future plans)

Absolutely. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

Developing Youth is a crucial part of what we have seen over the past few years. In saying that, I feel us fans are to attached to "bringing the juniors through" and we have to remember the goals of every junior player either on Scholorship, SG Ball or in the 20's is to play NRL. At the end of the day, and to be fair to the players, we cant keep them all…

Wests & Balmain have great junior nurseries, and while this is a benifit to the Wests Tigers, love it or hate it, the reality is the Wests Tigers is a business. The life blood of any NRL Franchise is revenue, and to ensure top $ dollars continue to roll in, you need to ensure your business is firstly successful on the field, and secondly, continually in the media.

This is where the question of Juniors v Open Players Market becomes tricky. As an example, we have no guarantees the likes of BMM, Woods, or Miller will be successful at NRL Level. Then you have another tier of juniors below them in Bogovich, Roqica, Sironen who are even further from any reality of being successful at NRL Level. Compare this to the oportunity to purchase proven top level performers in Graham (England Captain) and Blair (New Zealand VC) who would both suit our current structure and ensure continued on-field success for the business today?!

The question of money is not one for us, unless you have a clear understanding of how Humpty balances the cheque book. Whether we can afford these top flight players is up to the administrators of the club. One thing is for certain, the signing of Lote Tuqiri 13 months ago most defienately increased the marketability of the Wests Tigers by possibly the tune of up to $5M, whereas retaining ALL our Juniors is like buying a lottery ticket!!!

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

**I agree. It's bad when you see loyal blokes like Mullany have to sit in reggies because we sign someone like McKinnon (who really isn't setting the world on fire).**
If we have amazing juniors coming up in the positions, I think we should have our focus on them. That means not signing Graham/Blair and signing the props of Woods, Fifita & Roqica.

Sironen will become a 2nd rower, with Dwyer and of course we have BMM there also.

We even have some gun wingers coming up in Koribete and Tagive.

I honestly can't think where we need to sign anyone. As long as we have good senior role models to guide the juniors, like Lote on the wing, Ellis/Heino in the 2nd row and Sauce in the props, then focus on the juniors.

That's not really fair Hammer. I agree last year Wade Mac was short of a run and looked it, but this year he has been near on our best performer and is quite safe at the back. Mullaney is obviously not ready in Sheens' opinion otherwise he would have been playing FG by now.

That said, its really a trade off on potential against proven quality isn't it? At this point in time with our injuries I'd happily retain the juniors/up-and-comers and pass on the likes of Blair/Graham as our reggies and juniors have stood up and performed well. Do you sign Blair on and lose the potential & depth in the likes of the Schirnack boys? Or do you pay the big bucks to get Graham out here and potentially lose out on Fafita, BMM or Woodsy? I'm talking pre IC and TV deal here also, as we don't really know how high the cap will raise and what concessions will be offered to clubs once they are finalised.

For mine, Blair and Graham are both excellent acquisitions but I'm very hesitant to risk thinning out our talent pool should a horrific run of injuries such as now hit us again.

 

[hammertime]

That's not really fair Hammer. I agree last year Wade Mac was short of a run and looked it, but this year he has been near on our best performer and is quite safe at the back. Mullaney is obviously not ready in Sheens' opinion otherwise he would have been playing FG by now. .

Agree to some extent, but his defense to me is extremely suspect. Lets face it, Mullany hasn't got a run because of his size and therefore defense. He is a brilliant goal kicker, can find the try line and is safe. So, if his defense is holding him back, with McKinnon's the same, what is the advantage of McKinnon?

Mullany was the highest point scorer in NYC. I honestly don't know what else he has to prove. We need better attack and I think he has proven to offer that over McKinnon (who hasn't found the try line yet).

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Agree to some extent, but his defense to me is extremely suspect.

Sorry, but he's a much much better defender than Mullaney.

 

[magpiecol]

Agree to some extent, but his defense to me is extremely suspect.

Sorry, but he's a much much better defender than Mullaney.

Mullaney is the best attacking fullback in the club. A good kicker and must be given a chance soon or he will be gone.

As for our forwards, we need someone (or two) with some mongrel in them. We have some good forwards but they do not scare any opposition forwards (with the exception of Ellis).

The pommy captain and Blair would be two very good buys. This will be Payton's last year you would think. Then we could lose the Schirnack without losing much sleep. That would free up some money.

We need drive from the forwards and then blokes like Fifita can do their stuff. We must make the hard yards before we can throw it around. Blair and the two englishmen would terrify other forwards.

 

[you_know_who]

We dont really need anymore players except possibly a winger that can kick goals, lets all face it, everyone is shivering in there boots when benji takes shots at goal, you must admit its going to cost us big time one day, back when we had our glory run we had Brett Hodgson and Scott Prince who could both adequately kick goals and you wouldnt be worried too much about them kicking now, its a different kettle of fish altogether.

 

[you_know_who]

Hope you are correct i quite like rabbit stew as well, we owe them big time from last year, just hope the players rise to the occassion and ellis is late call up for the game as well.

 

[supercoach]

Developing Youth is a crucial part of what we have seen over the past few years. In saying that, I feel us fans are to attached to "bringing the juniors through" and we have to remember the goals of every junior player either on Scholorship, SG Ball or in the 20's is to play NRL. At the end of the day, and to be fair to the players, we cant keep them all…

Wests & Balmain have great junior nurseries, and while this is a benifit to the Wests Tigers, love it or hate it, the reality is the Wests Tigers is a business. The life blood of any NRL Franchise is revenue, and to ensure top $ dollars continue to roll in, you need to ensure your business is firstly successful on the field, and secondly, continually in the media.

This is where the question of Juniors v Open Players Market becomes tricky. As an example, we have no guarantees the likes of BMM, Woods, or Miller will be successful at NRL Level. Then you have another tier of juniors below them in Bogovich, Roqica, Sironen who are even further from any reality of being successful at NRL Level. Compare this to the oportunity to purchase proven top level performers in Graham (England Captain) and Blair (New Zealand VC) who would both suit our current structure and ensure continued on-field success for the business today?!
\
\
Watto is on the money, everyone wants success,sponsors,punters,the media and elite players. Its a very very risky road putting all your eggs in your juniors, very few ever make it to the top and of course to get your juniors to the top they need to be surrounded by class players. Its a bit of a catch 22\. The salary cap certainly stops you from ignoring your junior system, but if their is cap space available and their is a elite players available than no matter how good your juniors are you must have at shot at him. I think the dogs are a perfect example, very strong through the lower grades and juniors but they are first in the que for a quality signing. I suppose at the end of the day its all about balance

The question of money is not one for us, unless you have a clear understanding of how Humpty balances the cheque book. Whether we can afford these top flight players is up to the administrators of the club. One thing is for certain, the signing of Lote Tuqiri 13 months ago most defienately increased the marketability of the Wests Tigers by possibly the tune of up to $5M, whereas retaining ALL our Juniors is like buying a lottery ticket!!!

 

[happy_tiger]

Totally agree as long as the talent we bring into club Isn't with a fingers crossed mentality Ie Cayless OHara Tame Tupou . If we are signing these type of players over juniors well thats not smart . Understand about sponsors and we are a business . But I will give you a heads up about business . If you have a product (West Tigers)that is fantastic on paper and all the bosses and product testers love but if customers (the fans ,membersetc)will not buy(come and see repeat membership etc) because they aren't happy for whatever reason . What will happen to the company ????

 

[bigsiro]

Happy tiger, I agree and disagree. Sure, it would be better if we brought up a team rather than bought a team. For one, it would be cheaper.

But, I look at results and performance. I'd rather buy a 3 yr old Ferrari than drive a brand new Yaris. Pat Richards, Whatuira, Elford and Hodgson - CRUCIAL elements to 2005.

I would tend to work it our this way: If we sign a player who has 2-4 good years left, could he make an impact like a young gun who has 7 years left? In the case of Blair, yes. Much bigger impact.

With all the kind of thinking/posting that goes on on this forum we might as well give Ellis back and give someone younger a go. According to your thinking Happy Tiger, members or 'fans' may be staying away because Gareth Ellis makes them unhappy because he is taking a junior's spot. As far as I'm concerned these aren't fans they are just trouble makers and can go stick it. Only a complete idiot would be unhappy with awesome purchases. If they aren't happy for whatever reason then stop following first grade and go support bush footy when all your mates play every week. Heads up about business: success breeds investors. In Rugby League excitement breeds fans. Lote Tuqiri is an attraction, not the other way round.

For crying out loud - 'Fans' on these forums would rather keep Lui over buying Thurston because Lui is a junior and is younger.
On other strands of these forums 'fans' are saying they wouldn't want K Hunt or Folau. Our 'fans' must be 5 yrs old as they haven't seen them play.

Frankly, reading through these pages is embarrassing.

Apologize for the rant, but I hope to hell that no-one from Tigers management ever checks these forums out or we would be stuck with a team of 18 yr olds.

 

[tigeress]

I have always believed that the "cubs" are the future of our clubs. However as far as Mullaney is concerned ( and I'm sure he is an excellent f/b) McKinnon has the experience, although I'd have to say he dosen't run very fast !!!!! Mullaney will get his chance, hopefully with our club.

 

[stryker]

Big rant by big sirro…...and I mostly agree with it.

I dont know any juniors, never watch state cup and rarly watch 20's.

I just dont care.

First grade is what it is all about and winning the premiership is the goal. If good players hit the market than we are mugs if we dont have a crack at them.

 

[magpiecol]

Happy tiger, I agree and disagree. Sure, it would be better if we brought up a team rather than bought a team. For one, it would be cheaper.

But, I look at results and performance. I'd rather buy a 3 yr old Ferrari than drive a brand new Yaris. Pat Richards, Whatuira, Elford and Hodgson - CRUCIAL elements to 2005.

I would tend to work it our this way: If we sign a player who has 2-4 good years left, could he make an impact like a young gun who has 7 years left? In the case of Blair, yes. Much bigger impact.

With all the kind of thinking/posting that goes on on this forum we might as well give Ellis back and give someone younger a go. According to your thinking Happy Tiger, members or 'fans' may be staying away because Gareth Ellis makes them unhappy because he is taking a junior's spot. As far as I'm concerned these aren't fans they are just trouble makers and can go stick it. Only a complete idiot would be unhappy with awesome purchases. If they aren't happy for whatever reason then stop following first grade and go support bush footy when all your mates play every week. Heads up about business: success breeds investors. In Rugby League excitement breeds fans. Lote Tuqiri is an attraction, not the other way round.

For crying out loud - 'Fans' on these forums would rather keep Lui over buying Thurston because Lui is a junior and is younger.
On other strands of these forums 'fans' are saying they wouldn't want K Hunt or Folau. Our 'fans' must be 5 yrs old as they haven't seen them play.

Frankly, reading through these pages is embarrassing.

Apologize for the rant, but I hope to hell that no-one from Tigers management ever checks these forums out or we would be stuck with a team of 18 yr olds.

I agree. Judging some of the posts on this forum I believe that some of the punters are very young and do not know too much and have the education of 5 year olds.

 

[tiger05]

Big rant by big sirro…...and I mostly agree with it.

I dont know any juniors, never watch state cup and rarly watch 20's.

I just dont care.

First grade is what it is all about and winning the premiership is the goal. If good players hit the market than we are mugs if we dont have a crack at them.

I agree with this however I do like seeing us bring up juniors.

I think you need a balance. Ellis for instance has been a great signing. I think he is up there with the best forwards in the game and he really fits into our team.

I also like seeing Fifita run on and seeing Benji since he started playing has been awesome.