Referendum 2023

[balmain boy]

It's disappointing but not totally surprising that a number of people on here are planning to vote no.
I don't understand why people can live with such hatred, to deny indigenous people the opportunity to have a direct say on matters that impact them.

There are currently dozens of similar groups covering various other segments of society. This would just be the 30th different voice to parliament for a community sector, the only difference is this one would be added to the constitution, and that is simply so it cannot be dismantled by any future far right governments that may take government.

Hopefully Australia never again has another government as far right like Abbott or Scomo. But safe guarding this body from them is a sad but necessary step.

The no vote has sadly followed Trumps lead in targeting political conservatives with lies, fake news and fear. Many of these people simply believe what they're told and can't be bothered doing any reading/research on the matter, hence they absurdly offensive "don't know, vote no" slogan. The far right treat Aussies as morons, who are incapable of thinking for themselves and simply don't want Australians to find out answers to their question, as if they did they are far more likely to vote yes. It's fantastic to see lots of Liberal MPs coming out in support of the voice, more should hopefully follow their lead.

I am curious to hear any genuine reasons to vote no that aren't based on ancient white australia policies, ignorance or casual racism.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

It's disappointing but not totally surprising that a number of people on here are planning to vote no.
I don't understand why people can live with such hatred, to deny indigenous people the opportunity to have a direct say on matters that impact them.

There are currently dozens of similar groups covering various other segments of society. This would just be the 30th different voice to parliament for a community sector, the only difference is this one would be added to the constitution, and that is simply so it cannot be dismantled by any future far right governments that may take government.

Hopefully Australia never again has another government as far right like Abbott or Scomo. But safe guarding this body from them is a sad but necessary step.

The no vote has sadly followed Trumps lead in targeting political conservatives with lies, fake news and fear. Many of these people simply believe what they're told and can't be bothered doing any reading/research on the matter, hence they absurdly offensive "don't know, vote no" slogan. The far right treat Aussies as morons, who are incapable of thinking for themselves and simply don't want Australians to find out answers to their question, as if they did they are far more likely to vote yes. It's fantastic to see lots of Liberal MPs coming out in support of the voice, more should hopefully follow their lead.



I am curious to hear any genuine reasons to vote no that aren't based on ancient white australia policies, ignorance or casual racism.

Posts like yours are the best recruiter for the No vote.

 

[Tucker]

It's disappointing but not totally surprising that a number of people on here are planning to vote no.
I don't understand why people can live with such hatred, to deny indigenous people the opportunity to have a direct say on matters that impact them.

There are currently dozens of similar groups covering various other segments of society. This would just be the 30th different voice to parliament for a community sector, the only difference is this one would be added to the constitution, and that is simply so it cannot be dismantled by any future far right governments that may take government.

Hopefully Australia never again has another government as far right like Abbott or Scomo. But safe guarding this body from them is a sad but necessary step.

The no vote has sadly followed Trumps lead in targeting political conservatives with lies, fake news and fear. Many of these people simply believe what they're told and can't be bothered doing any reading/research on the matter, hence they absurdly offensive "don't know, vote no" slogan. The far right treat Aussies as morons, who are incapable of thinking for themselves and simply don't want Australians to find out answers to their question, as if they did they are far more likely to vote yes. It's fantastic to see lots of Liberal MPs coming out in support of the voice, more should hopefully follow their lead.

I am curious to hear any genuine reasons to vote no that aren't based on ancient white australia policies, ignorance or casual racism.

Read the thread you knob.

 

[earl]

Academic wankers only talk about 'generational trauma' when talking about specific minority groups because it serves their political agenda, not because they're genuinely interested in trauma.

Not at all. I suggest you read up on the topic because your ideas are very different to my understanding of the topic. I don't think anyone says what you have stated above. It's not the academic idea and it's definitely not about specific minority groups.

 

[earl]

It's disappointing but not totally surprising that a number of people on here are planning to vote no.
I don't understand why people can live with such hatred, to deny indigenous people the opportunity to have a direct say on matters that impact them.

They are probably suffering from trauma.

They can't see that it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game and they can't see that enabling Indigenous people to make these decisions is easier for the rest of society and better for Indigenous people. It's actually a win-win situation if you just change your frame a little.

 

[earl]

I am curious to hear any genuine reasons to vote no that aren't based on ancient white australia policies, ignorance or casual racism.

I haven't heard a single argument that passes the smell test. The only possible argument is it doesn't belong in the constitution but I don't see the issue. Maybe a constitutional lawyer can help with this but no one has articulated this well.

The main argument for no is the what about me argument. That is the one that the no voters keep referring too. It sounds like an argument against positive discrimination but it's really bizarre considering the spend that we currently have is so trivial.

Some Indigenous no voters believe that the voice will mean it takes longer to get to a treaty but I think they are being foolish. A treaty is going to take time anyway.

Some extremists want a separate government separate completely from our country but this is people like Anthony Mundine. So I wouldn't even consider these people offering a realistic solution.

 

[twentyforty]

They are probably suffering from trauma.

They can't see that it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game and they can't see that enabling Indigenous people to make these decisions is easier for the rest of society and better for Indigenous people. It's actually a win-win situation if you just change your frame a little.

Earl, you seem to know quite a lot about how this constitutional change will effect the lives of so many people in a positive way.
Has this been done before?
Can you name the countries which have changed their constitution in a similar way? Any that you’re particularly impressed with?

 

[Twmba_Tigerman]

I love these types of forum topics. It lessens the pain from a woeful 2023 season as the focus is somewhere else, even if its only for a few minutes. Respect everyone's right to vote either way on this one but had the opportunity to work in indigenous communities for 30 plus years across Queensland and I doubt the voice will make any difference other than fattening the wallets of the elite who have worked out how to tap into the dollars provided which are not being spent where it is needed. It's a NO this end (No issues with recognition) and being called a racist, stupid and a criminal by those pushing the yes vote has not assisted their cause. Sadly I cannot recall an issue being so divisive amongst the population. Albanese has dug a hole here that will continue to get deeper whatever the outcome.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

Smart highly educated experts disagree.

Gabor Mate also believes that no one is born with autism or ADHD and you cant get lung cancer from just cigarette if you are happy. Not where I go for "smart expert" opinions.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

Why would someone in Australia have worse 'trauma' from events 200 years ago than someone in Europe whose family just in the 20th century might have gone from imperial domination (e.g by Austro-Hungarian empire) to mass bloodshed in the war to end all wars, followed by the Great Depression, followed by Bolshevik colonisation, followed by another World War and Nazi occupation and mass murder, followed by Soviet colonisation and more mass murder.

With the Ottomans prior to the Austrians. Hungary has ruled itself for only 70 of the last 700 years.

Academic wankers only talk about 'generational trauma' when talking about specific minority groups because it serves their political agenda, not because they're genuinely interested in trauma.

100%

The discussion also assumes that there was an "Aboriginal Nation" prior to british settlement and of course this wasnt true, there was like 200 individual nations or mobs. The reason that each of these has a region or "country" that we all acknowledge for each region, was violence and warfare. If one mob moved into another mobs area and started taking resources, there would be violence and action to take or defend land and territory. One day a mob turned up with better weapons.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

It's disappointing but not totally surprising that a number of people on here are planning to vote no.
I don't understand why people can live with such hatred, to deny indigenous people the opportunity to have a direct say on matters that impact them.

Hatred?

There are currently dozens of similar groups covering various other segments of society. This would just be the 30th different voice to parliament for a community sector, the only difference is this one would be added to the constitution, and that is simply so it cannot be dismantled by any future far right governments that may take government.

Hopefully Australia never again has another government as far right like Abbott or Scomo. But safe guarding this body from them is a sad but necessary step.

The no vote has sadly followed Trumps lead in targeting political conservatives with lies, fake news and fear. Many of these people simply believe what they're told and can't be bothered doing any reading/research on the matter, hence they absurdly offensive "don't know, vote no" slogan. The far right treat Aussies as morons, who are incapable of thinking for themselves and simply don't want Australians to find out answers to their question, as if they did they are far more likely to vote yes. It's fantastic to see lots of Liberal MPs coming out in support of the voice, more should hopefully follow their lead.

I am curious to hear any genuine reasons to vote no that aren't based on ancient white australia policies, ignorance or casual racism.

Far right people like Warren Mundine? Far right people like Anthony Mundine and Lidia Thorpe?

Plenty of legitimate, non ignorant, non racist reasons in this thread but you've raised your political flag pretty high mate and Im not sure you will be able to see past it.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

Not at all. I suggest you read up on the topic because your ideas are very different to my understanding of the topic. I don't think anyone says what you have stated above. It's not the academic idea and it's definitely not about specific minority groups.

Generational trauma is not about specific minority groups? You cant be serious.

 

[twentyforty]

I love these types of forum topics. It lessens the pain from a woeful 2023 season as the focus is somewhere else, even if its only for a few minutes. Respect everyone's right to vote either way on this one but had the opportunity to work in indigenous communities for 30 plus years across Queensland and I doubt the voice will make any difference other than fattening the wallets of the elite who have worked out how to tap into the dollars provided which are not being spent where it is needed. It's a NO this end (No issues with recognition) and being called a racist, stupid and a criminal by those pushing the yes vote has not assisted their cause. Sadly I cannot recall an issue being so divisive amongst the population. Albanese has dug a hole here that will continue to get deeper whatever the outcome.

Kinda reminds me of the Brittany Higgins case, where politics becomes more important than the case itself.

 

[TillLindemann]

It's disappointing but not totally surprising that a number of people on here are planning to vote no.
I don't understand why people can live with such hatred, to deny indigenous people the opportunity to have a direct say on matters that impact them.

There are currently dozens of similar groups covering various other segments of society. This would just be the 30th different voice to parliament for a community sector, the only difference is this one would be added to the constitution, and that is simply so it cannot be dismantled by any future far right governments that may take government.

Hopefully Australia never again has another government as far right like Abbott or Scomo. But safe guarding this body from them is a sad but necessary step.

The no vote has sadly followed Trumps lead in targeting political conservatives with lies, fake news and fear. Many of these people simply believe what they're told and can't be bothered doing any reading/research on the matter, hence they absurdly offensive "don't know, vote no" slogan. The far right treat Aussies as morons, who are incapable of thinking for themselves and simply don't want Australians to find out answers to their question, as if they did they are far more likely to vote yes. It's fantastic to see lots of Liberal MPs coming out in support of the voice, more should hopefully follow their lead.

I am curious to hear any genuine reasons to vote no that aren't based on ancient white australia policies, ignorance or casual racism.

'Everyone who disagrees with me is a nazi'

 

[Tiger-ferret]

It's disappointing but not totally surprising that a number of people on here are planning to vote no.
I don't understand why people can live with such hatred, to deny indigenous people the opportunity to have a direct say on matters that impact them.

There are currently dozens of similar groups covering various other segments of society. This would just be the 30th different voice to parliament for a community sector, the only difference is this one would be added to the constitution, and that is simply so it cannot be dismantled by any future far right governments that may take government.

Hopefully Australia never again has another government as far right like Abbott or Scomo. But safe guarding this body from them is a sad but necessary step.

The no vote has sadly followed Trumps lead in targeting political conservatives with lies, fake news and fear. Many of these people simply believe what they're told and can't be bothered doing any reading/research on the matter, hence they absurdly offensive "don't know, vote no" slogan. The far right treat Aussies as morons, who are incapable of thinking for themselves and simply don't want Australians to find out answers to their question, as if they did they are far more likely to vote yes. It's fantastic to see lots of Liberal MPs coming out in support of the voice, more should hopefully follow their lead.

I am curious to hear any genuine reasons to vote no that aren't based on ancient white australia policies, ignorance or casual racism.

“The far right treat Aussies as morons, who are incapable of thinking for themselves”

Lol the moderate to far left do the same.

One reason to vote no is that we don’t need another layer of bureaucracy to make a complicated and expensive social issue even more complicated and expensive. I can guarantee you the gap won’t close if the yes gets up. But you might feel better about yourself by telling no voters they are racist.

 

[shiretiger]

Where's my Generational Trauma? Anyone whose Grand Parents or Great Grand parents lived in the 20th Century surely passed it down to us.

For a small amount of perspective at this moment, imagine you were born in 1900. When you are 14, World War I starts, and ends on your 18th birthday with 22 million people killed. Later in the year, a Spanish Flu epidemic hits the planet and runs until you are 20. Fifty million people die from it in those two years. Yes, 50 million.

When you're 29, the Great Depression begins. Unemployment hits 25%, global GDP drops 27%. That runs until you are 33. The country nearly collapses along with the world economy. When you turn 39, World War II starts. You aren’t even over the hill yet.

When you're 41, the United States is fully pulled into WWII. Between your 39th and 45th birthday, 75 million people perish in the war and the Holocaust kills six million. At 52, the Korean War starts and five million perish.

At 64 the Vietnam War begins, and it doesn’t end for many years. Four million people die in that conflict. Approaching your 62nd birthday you have the Cuban Missile Crisis, a tipping point in the Cold War. Life on our planet, as we know it, could well have ended. Great leaders prevented that from happening.

As you turn 75, the Vietnam War finally ends. Think of everyone on the planet born in 1900. How do you survive all of that? A kid in 1985 didn’t think their 85 year old grandparent understood how hard school was. Yet those grandparents (and now great grandparents) survived through everything listed above.

Heck, I demand reparations from Germany as they shot and wounded my Great Grandfather in the hip in March 1917 in France. I can still feel the intergenerational pain.

 

[WestsEffTheRest]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1703709559171547484

 

[WestsEffTheRest]

It's disappointing but not totally surprising that a number of people on here are planning to vote no.
I don't understand why people can live with such hatred, to deny indigenous people the opportunity to have a direct say on matters that impact them.

There are currently dozens of similar groups covering various other segments of society. This would just be the 30th different voice to parliament for a community sector, the only difference is this one would be added to the constitution, and that is simply so it cannot be dismantled by any future far right governments that may take government.

Hopefully Australia never again has another government as far right like Abbott or Scomo. But safe guarding this body from them is a sad but necessary step.

The no vote has sadly followed Trumps lead in targeting political conservatives with lies, fake news and fear. Many of these people simply believe what they're told and can't be bothered doing any reading/research on the matter, hence they absurdly offensive "don't know, vote no" slogan. The far right treat Aussies as morons, who are incapable of thinking for themselves and simply don't want Australians to find out answers to their question, as if they did they are far more likely to vote yes. It's fantastic to see lots of Liberal MPs coming out in support of the voice, more should hopefully follow their lead.

I am curious to hear any genuine reasons to vote no that aren't based on ancient white australia policies, ignorance or casual racism.

This post just makes me want to vote no even more.

 

[Tucker]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1703709559171547484

As predicted.
This will end with blood in the streets.
Just as legitimate, well intentioned No voters will be lumped in with racists, legitimate, well intentioned Yes voters will be lumped in with aggressive activist groups.
The Government has created a perfect distraction to hide their failures in other portfolios.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

As predicted.
This will end with blood in the streets.
Just as legitimate, well intentioned No voters will be lumped in with racists, legitimate, well intentioned Yes voters will be lumped in with aggressive activist groups.
The Government has created a perfect distraction to hide their failures in other portfolios.

And the Government can wash its hands and say "we tried".