Referendum 2023

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Tucker said:
When you divide people by race, no one wins.
If the Yes campaign wins, they will muck around for a few years doing the minimum to support their mandate, whilst leveraging the decision into achieving the more lofty goals.
If the No campaign wins, it will re-animate the incorrect narrative that Australia is racist…probably at an international level.
Neither result will help the people who need it.
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No one wins. Thank you Sir.
 
Kaito said:
Yeah man. I'm still a bit conflicted with the whole
thing to be honest. Want what's best but also
have a healthy dose of scepticism the longer
the conversation goes. It appears clear cut
and dry from face value but there's a lot of
moving parts to all of this as you've mentioned
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Kaito. Do what you have to do. Doesn't matter you vote yes or no. The bottom line is - you want the world to be a better place. You can't lose brother.
 
Kaito said:
Yeah man. I'm still a bit conflicted with the whole
thing to be honest. Want what's best but also
have a healthy dose of scepticism the longer
the conversation goes. It appears clear cut
and dry from face value but there's a lot of
moving parts to all of this as you've mentioned
Click to expand...
This is why I told you I’m undecided.
I’m trying to work out which answer will be the least bad.
 
I'll be voting yes. Think it's the best shot at giving Indigenous Australian's the power needed to improve their lot in life. Australia is a wonderful place - but it's a tragedy so many first nations people haven't being able to enjoy it as much as the rest of us.

What I'm certain on, we need to do something different as what's being happening clearly hasn't being working. The voice is the best shot at that we have.
 
Kaito said:
That's fair enough. I'm sure that a lot of Aussies
share the same sentiment. It's a pivotal moment
in our history whether yes or no comes out on top
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For them. Not us. Nothing will change for the voter. Trust me. We will still suffer till we learn. They will come out on top. As usual.
 
BirchgroveTigers said:
I'll be voting yes. Think it's the best shot at giving Indigenous Australian's the power needed to improve their lot in life. Australia is a wonderful place - but it's a tragedy so many first nations people haven't being able to enjoy it as much as the rest of us.

What I'm certain on, we need to do something different as what's being happening clearly hasn't being working. The voice is the best shot at that we have.
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How do you think it will provide that shot?
 
Tucker said:
When you divide people by race, no one wins.
If the Yes campaign wins, they will muck around for a few years doing the minimum to support their mandate, whilst leveraging the decision into achieving the more lofty goals.
If the No campaign wins, it will re-animate the incorrect narrative that Australia is racist…probably at an international level.
Neither result will help the people who need it.
Click to expand...
Wanted to add another take on this in the context of historical challenges and marginalisation.

The proposal is not about dividing people by race but acknowledging the cultural diversity within Indigenous communities. It's an effort to protect the cultural rights and heritage of these communities while addressing historical injustices, which is different from perpetuating racial divisions.
The campaign is not about promoting discrimination; rather, it's aimed at combating it. Discrimination has been a long-standing issue faced by Indigenous communities, and constitutional recognition is a way to rectify historical injustices and create a more inclusive and equitable society. It's about ending systemic discrimination, not perpetuating it.

Agree about the questionable motives and feel it's contributed to the poor state of the campaign. Some are shameless and exploitative. Regardless of the result, the campaign highlights the importance of addressing historical and current disparities and fostering unity among all Australians.

Your noted uncertainty about the composition of the governing body is the most valid point I've seen in the thread, as this is absolutely vital for delivering beneficial outcomes. Ensuring a well-structured governing body is essential for effective implementation and long-term success, as it will play a pivotal role in safeguarding the intended positive outcomes of this campaign.
 
Tucker said:
How do you think it will provide that shot?
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I think it's about having Indigenous voices present in debates more than they have been to date. Currently, Australia really only talks a lot about Indigenous disadvantage with any substance around Australia Day which turns into a toxic conversation, the yearly update on closing the gap and when instances of police brutality happen (obviously not entirely true but you get my point and hats off the the NRL and AFL who are also increasingly putting these issues on the public debate a bit more but there's only so much sport can/should do).

It's not a silver bullet for dealing with disadvantage that has been caused over 200 years but it's a step forward.
 
BirchgroveTigers said:
I think it's about having Indigenous voices present in debates more than they have been to date. Currently, Australia really only talks a lot about Indigenous disadvantage with any substance around Australia Day which turns into a toxic conversation, the yearly update on closing the gap and when instances of police brutality happen (obviously not entirely true but you get my point and hats off the the NRL and AFL who are also increasingly putting these issues on the public debate a bit more but there's only so much sport can/should do).

It's not a silver bullet for dealing with disadvantage that has been caused over 200 years but it's a step forward.
Click to expand...
Australia is really a wonderful place to live and that's why people from all over the world want to move here. But we need to be honest - that hasn't been shared with First Nations people to the same degree and that's not right. We can't be the land of the fair go if the original inhabitants don't get a fair go.

The voice isn't perfect but life never is. I think a yes vote will do more good than a no vote I guess is what I'm saying.
 
People need to think more about the statement of some people that the voice (as proposed) is going to improve the lot of the indigenous peoples and it seems the "right" thing to do.

That is way too simplistic a view and this referendum is not a simple situation.

It is too important and the overarching effect of the outcome is still too vague.

Lets look at it like this.....

If Yes "wins" we have a constitutional enshrined instrument (probably never to be removed) called "The Voice" that accord to proponents, is nothing more than an advisory panel. The Government of the day can do anything they want with this advice, including completely ignoring it - so as an instrument of change it is toothless in reality. And we have divided the populace, and spent, how much $360M? on a toothless tiger; not forgetting the millions that will be pumped into the Voice bureaucracy every year for the advice to be ignored.

All for politics.

If, as the No campaign say, it is the crack in the wall for reparations, land rights, Blak Sovereignty, GDP sharing etc then $360M will be but a piddle in the bucket and the full and complete ramifications of such a change to the constitution should have been clearly spelled out for all of the nation to consider and understand and not be hidden behind simplistic jingoistic "helping hands" "smiley happy clappies", let alone understanding the link between what may be and its primary proponents - who happen to be trade unionists, marxists and a whole host of white knights.
 
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