Revealed: Secret bid to buy battling Tigers

[BZN]

What did Elias say re taking over the club on John's show last night ?did anyone watch.

He said bugger all ..
Only that there’s a grey area in between the board and the coach (mentioned it twice).
I’d say he was having a dig at Pascoe and maybe the chairman .

That grey area he talks about has to be Pascoe - he is the link between the board and the football dept. As for what he means by it - who knows as he keeps saying how well the club is run and its such great shape.

I don’t trust him one bit...
Ulterior motives ..
Only in it to line his pockets somehow

But he said you dont make any money running a footy club!

Benny wouldn't lie to us

:flushed: :thinking_face: :lying_face: :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing: :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing: :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing: :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

 

[BZN]

What did Elias say re taking over the club on John's show last night ?did anyone watch.

He said bugger all ..
Only that there’s a grey area in between the board and the coach (mentioned it twice).
I’d say he was having a dig at Pascoe and maybe the chairman .

That grey area he talks about has to be Pascoe - he is the link between the board and the football dept. As for what he means by it - who knows as he keeps saying how well the club is run and its such great shape.

I don’t trust him one bit...
Ulterior motives ..
Only in it to line his pockets somehow


I'm all turned around, let Benny have them. He will do something like sell the licence to the Redcliff Jungle Birds or move the club to Perth. Rusted on fans will finally be pulled down from the cross and get their winters back. It would be hard to support another club but I could happily just watch league as a causal fan.

I for one welcome Benny and his gang of merry investors.

Why doesn't he sink his $$$ into Newtown instead, then he could have real fun looking in the mirror and seeing Benny... And The Jets!!! :triumph: :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

 

[BZN]

Its the secrecy of the whole thing that puts people off. If Benny just came out and said that the consortium had no intention of relocating or on selling the licence and are not changing the jersey or emblem but are looking at one home ground and providing new ideas and new markets in the top end of town then most on here would think it was a good idea. As long as you could trust anything that Benny said.

Never trust a snake with one eye, and that's what B.Elias is.

 

[TigerTownSFS]

Mets lost a cumulative 15.3m in the decade up to and including 2020.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/829569/new-york-mets-operating-income/

It is clearly a passion purchase from a mega wealthy life long Mets fan. There are many many examples of this throughout sport globally including in Australia (twiggy, Clive Palmer etc etc). Anyway, in 10 years let’s revisit to see who was right.

 

[Bula]

Its the secrecy of the whole thing that puts people off. If Benny just came out and said that the consortium had no intention of relocating or on selling the licence and are not changing the jersey or emblem but are looking at one home ground and providing new ideas and new markets in the top end of town then most on here would think it was a good idea. As long as you could trust anything that Benny said.

Never trust a snake with one eye, and that's what B.Elias is.

John The Impersonator Elias had the snake with one eye. At least with John you had your hand in his pocket.

 

[mike]

If you look at sport globally the brand and the franchise is worth a lot of money.

Strongly disagree. Any asset is only worth a multiple of the possible return on investment (ROI). What is the ROI of an NRL "franchise"? Seriously. Other than Brisbane, none of the club consistently make profits and even when they do (or dont) more than 50% of their revenue is a grant from the NRL, Its a terrible business model, the whole NRL is. The whole NRL set up with its agreements for club Grants and the fact the grants and salary cap at fixed to revenue restricts profits.

Other than fixed assets, which most of the clubs have almost none, the only assets are future sales and NRL grants and these are almost by design totally chewed up ensuring no profit (salary cap tied to grant).

There is no ROI on an NRL club and therefore almost no value.

>Whilst the club may not make a profit we have only really been in the post super league professional era for a decade and already clubs like Rabbits and Easts are building extremely strong brands that will increase in value over time.

Why will they increase in value in time? What is the source of income for the Roosters and Souths? More than 50% is the grant which is tied to salaries and also the media deal (which can fluctuate).

>In the premier league and US sports these types of assets become play things of the rich and powerful and it wouldn’t be hard to imagine that is where these franchises go.

The premier league and US sports have the benefit of enormous markets that are not enjoyed by the NRL. Some (not all) EPL teams make ENORMOUS profits and this is the value of these assets. It simply doesnt exist in Australia ir the NRL.

>Crowe paid 1.5m for his 50% share and all up has probably invested something like $5m in Rabbits. That 50% would probably be worth at least $20m if not more.

The fact that Crowe continually tips in money makes the asset worth less not more. If Crowe was continually taking money out it would be worth something.

A football club is worth whatever people are prepared to pay for it. It doesn’t have to be an asset to be worth something.

Sure thats a tenet of a free market but the fact that the NRL clubs dont make a significant profit or ROI obviously has a depressive impact on that value. If ownership of an NRL club is such a valuable commodity, why isnt there a market for it? Why do we not see rich businessmen lining up to buy them and resell them?

>The analogy with a normal company who’s goal is to make money for its shareholder(s) does not apply.

Why not? Seriously why not? Does capitalism and free markets have its own little subsection for NRL clubs?

Because their are other drivers to owning an NRL club that are not aligned with making money or should I say a profit. It has nothing todo with capitalism.


Sure and I dont disagree with that, but my original point was regarding the post saying that these franchises have increasing value. There is no systemic or structural reason for increasing value unless there is a ROI.

If someone wants to pay an amount as a folly, then the value is whatever they want to pay and the owner will take obviously, but this is not an increasing market.

IMO Benny's forecast ROI was I reckon he would have sold us up off to Perth.

If someone

Fair enough.

Edit: Though I would not call it a folly. Not everything has to have a monetary value to be valuable.


Call it a toy or plaything then....

Why not call it a passion for the love of the sport then?

 

[diedpretty]

Read the financials of West’s Ashfield and it will become evident the whole sale is a farce of the highest proportions. If they entertained a sale and a move West West’s Cambo are not far behind. Why would they sell the club to anyone the footy club is a business that’s a fraction of their revenues. It’s so small of a drain they donate more to charity than footy losses.

The promotion and maintaining Rugba League in their area is in Wests Ashfield charter. Its not just all pokies and beer.

 

[twentyforty]

How much would 50% of the club would be worth ?

1 PIE a Can of Coke and a chiko roll.. based on performance...ALL ROUND..

Sounds about right 🙂

The only reason I ask is, I heard on the radio a shareholder in the Broncos wants to sell his 20% share for 10 Million, so we would be no where near that I would assume.

It's relative to the worth of the business..I mean it's coming with a State of the Art COE...anyone with development money looking to invest around...provide jobs etc..

Do we own that building?

Was funded by the Club so you would hope at least..

I thought we got funding from govts etc. I thought someone said we didnt put money in at all , just arranged funding? great assett to have if its ours.

The Concord Oval upgrade is funded by the NSW Government through the Parramatta Road Urban Amenity Improvement Program and the Office of Sport, with further funding from the City of Canada Bay, Australian Government and Wests Tigers

Just a second, that sounds factual. Like, you did some research and reported facts?

What are you doing??? That's not how this forum works.

Facts can often become boring. Anyway, it doesn’t really matter what’s real or not real, it’s what people believe to be real which really matters. If you’re a buyer or seller you need to find out what it is to arrive at a starting point. I doubt there is any single valuation method which can be applied to produce the intrinsic value of an nrl club. Of course the Broncos May be different.
Loved reading the above posts. Great input!

 

[twentyforty]

How much would 50% of the club would be worth ?

1 PIE a Can of Coke and a chiko roll.. based on performance...ALL ROUND..

Sounds about right 🙂

The only reason I ask is, I heard on the radio a shareholder in the Broncos wants to sell his 20% share for 10 Million, so we would be no where near that I would assume.

It's relative to the worth of the business..I mean it's coming with a State of the Art COE...anyone with development money looking to invest around...provide jobs etc..

Do we own that building?

Was funded by the Club so you would hope at least..

I thought we got funding from govts etc. I thought someone said we didnt put money in at all , just arranged funding? great assett to have if its ours.

The Concord Oval upgrade is funded by the NSW Government through the Parramatta Road Urban Amenity Improvement Program and the Office of Sport, with further funding from the City of Canada Bay, Australian Government and Wests Tigers

Just a second, that sounds factual. Like, you did some research and reported facts?

What are you doing??? That's not how this forum works.


Facts can often become boring. Anyway, it doesn’t really matter what’s real or not real, it’s what people believe to be real which really matters. If you’re a buyer or seller you need to find out what it is to arrive at a starting point. I doubt there is any single valuation method which can be applied to produce the intrinsic value of an nrl club. Of course the Broncos May be different.
Loved reading the above posts. Great input!

Yeh, I'm super boring, I just believe facts are real.

You missed my point. Anyhoo, I’m sure you read novels or play games and enjoy it. ?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]


Never forget who did this

Was this a cropped version of Alien giving the finger to the club from inside his 1981 Mistubishi Colt?

 

[TYGA]

Read the financials of West’s Ashfield and it will become evident the whole sale is a farce of the highest proportions. If they entertained a sale and a move West West’s Cambo are not far behind. Why would they sell the club to anyone the footy club is a business that’s a fraction of their revenues. It’s so small of a drain they donate more to charity than footy losses.


The promotion and maintaining Rugba League in their area is in Wests Ashfield charter. Its not just all pokies and beer.

This is true. Leagues clubs are generally set up for the benefit of the footy club albeit with their own governance.

 

[BZN]

For the record I'm not really for or against Benny trying to buy up half of WT.

What I do find interesting is there's been a lot of commentary this year about what Tigers can do differently, given a whole host of coaches, managers, CEOs, staff, players have tried to lift the club to reasonably consistent success, and failed to do so.

It is generally agreed that one of the few consistencies throughout this period has been the board, notwithstanding the Wets 90% buyout of recent years putting it much more firmly in the Wests Ashfield court. We haven't really changed the Board much, aside from the Chairperson.

And a bloke comes along to suggest to buy a stake and shake things up a bit... and the forum reaction appears to be 99% negative. Here's your chance to shake things up folks, we can hardly do much worse on the NRL Ladder or our finals success record. If you are an advocate for shaking up the club structure and ownership, Benny is probably the only bloke who is going to make an offer this side of 2040 (pun intended). Take it or leave it, but if you leave it, you'll need to abandon your complaints about things Wests Ashfield might do in the future.

Hi jirskyr I like that you are looking deeper into it than most, even doing that it still doesn't change the fact that 99.9% of members and fans alike don't trust him. Phenomenal player that he was, it doesn't change the articles that we have read and the stories we have heard.
It also doesn't help he is trying to get involved when the club is well and truly on the rise. The club is going great financially, juniors are firing (2nd in Reggies and Flegg and 4th in the Harold Matts and Tarsha Gale) the $75mil COE is opening shortly, structure and value is being added to all levels of the club and he wants to buy a majority share for what is rumoured to be next years salary cap. During the Taylor and big four era I might have thought about it, but he wasn't there through the bad times, now there is light at the end of the tunnel and he wants in. Go to buggery Ben.

So it appears then, dislike for Benny over-rules desires for change at the top.

It's just interesting to me, because I would had said 50% or more folks would have been interested in a board change after the 2021 season to date. For example, if someone said Dennis Burgess or Simon Cook were stepping down next week, I'm predicting most everyone would quite enthusiastic about a shake-up, not actually having any idea if Dennis or Simon know their stuff, nor who the replacement may be.

But a suggestion of Ben Elias trying to buy a seat, those same folks - aka "everyone" - against it.

It is possible to want changes at board level but to still prefer the current set up to Benny's involvement.

Its kind of like the republican vote in the 99, a lot of people wanted a republic but weren't happy with the model put forward so voted no in the referendum.

I would like change at board level but wouldn't be happy with Benny's involvement so would prefer to keep the current model.

[/QUOTE]

What happened to the ferocious tiger from about 18 months ago when I first joined our forum, that roared with anger when you mistakenly jumped to the conclusion that I was attempting to put a giant wedge between your beloved Balmain Tigers and my beloved Wests Magpies?

What happened to that ferocious tiger that roared with anger and was prepared to die... for the Wests Tigers, as the club was then, due to his life long and never ending love and passion for the Wests Tigers... as it was then?

We currently have a situation where a very poor example of a human being commonly known as 'back door Benny' and his band of faceless men have a burning desire to take control of Wests Tigers.
As admittedly a truly great player for Balmain Tigers, his never ending love for the Balmain Tigers is his sole reason for the need to control.......Wow!!!

He even tells us [it has nothing to do with the need to accumulate personal $$$] there is no profit to be made out of sporting clubs.......Wow!!!

What a truly unique person he is!!!

The fact he is from the Balmain side of our sporting partnership...do you consider if this goes ahead, this could be the actual giant wedge that breaks the Wests Tigers back?

A couple of sporting personalities with a lot more integrity than 'back door Benny' have suggested there is a need for a NRL team to be centered in Campbelltown, and have further suggested Wests Tigers should locate there and once again become known as Wests Magpies.
What's your opinion on this?

 

[Coastie_Tiger]

Is it today the board meet to formally reject bouncing Benny's proposal?

 

[yeahcaz]

Haven’t read into this post much or subject , my only question in the matter.

How could it possibly be any worse than what’s already going on at the club

 

[Harvey]

How much would 50% of the club would be worth ?

1 PIE a Can of Coke and a chiko roll.. based on performance...ALL ROUND..

Sounds about right 🙂

The only reason I ask is, I heard on the radio a shareholder in the Broncos wants to sell his 20% share for 10 Million, so we would be no where near that I would assume.

It's relative to the worth of the business..I mean it's coming with a State of the Art COE...anyone with development money looking to invest around...provide jobs etc..


The COE is not an asset and doesnt contribute to the value of the company. We are tenants.

Ever heard of a selling point or good will...


You cant sell something you dont own so its not a selling point. Goodwill is forecast sales and the CoE doesnt increase sales.

Its a good thing, Im glad its coming but contributes zero to a balance sheet. Just a fact.

Have you met Benny Elias..you can sell a dream..


Only if you have a buyer..

Not Sell the asset...sell the use of facilities

How much rent will the barber have to pay ?

Free rent. As long as the guys look good playing footy, who cares about winning.

Each week the worst player should get their head shaved

 

[cochise]

For the record I'm not really for or against Benny trying to buy up half of WT.

What I do find interesting is there's been a lot of commentary this year about what Tigers can do differently, given a whole host of coaches, managers, CEOs, staff, players have tried to lift the club to reasonably consistent success, and failed to do so.

It is generally agreed that one of the few consistencies throughout this period has been the board, notwithstanding the Wets 90% buyout of recent years putting it much more firmly in the Wests Ashfield court. We haven't really changed the Board much, aside from the Chairperson.

And a bloke comes along to suggest to buy a stake and shake things up a bit... and the forum reaction appears to be 99% negative. Here's your chance to shake things up folks, we can hardly do much worse on the NRL Ladder or our finals success record. If you are an advocate for shaking up the club structure and ownership, Benny is probably the only bloke who is going to make an offer this side of 2040 (pun intended). Take it or leave it, but if you leave it, you'll need to abandon your complaints about things Wests Ashfield might do in the future.

Hi jirskyr I like that you are looking deeper into it than most, even doing that it still doesn't change the fact that 99.9% of members and fans alike don't trust him. Phenomenal player that he was, it doesn't change the articles that we have read and the stories we have heard.
It also doesn't help he is trying to get involved when the club is well and truly on the rise. The club is going great financially, juniors are firing (2nd in Reggies and Flegg and 4th in the Harold Matts and Tarsha Gale) the $75mil COE is opening shortly, structure and value is being added to all levels of the club and he wants to buy a majority share for what is rumoured to be next years salary cap. During the Taylor and big four era I might have thought about it, but he wasn't there through the bad times, now there is light at the end of the tunnel and he wants in. Go to buggery Ben.

So it appears then, dislike for Benny over-rules desires for change at the top.

It's just interesting to me, because I would had said 50% or more folks would have been interested in a board change after the 2021 season to date. For example, if someone said Dennis Burgess or Simon Cook were stepping down next week, I'm predicting most everyone would quite enthusiastic about a shake-up, not actually having any idea if Dennis or Simon know their stuff, nor who the replacement may be.

But a suggestion of Ben Elias trying to buy a seat, those same folks - aka "everyone" - against it.

It is possible to want changes at board level but to still prefer the current set up to Benny's involvement.

Its kind of like the republican vote in the 99, a lot of people wanted a republic but weren't happy with the model put forward so voted no in the referendum.

I would like change at board level but wouldn't be happy with Benny's involvement so would prefer to keep the current model.

What happened to the ferocious tiger from about 18 months ago when I first joined our forum, that roared with anger when you mistakenly jumped to the conclusion that I was attempting to put a giant wedge between your beloved Balmain Tigers and my beloved Wests Magpies?

What happened to that ferocious tiger that roared with anger and was prepared to die... for the Wests Tigers, as the club was then, due to his life long and never ending love and passion for the Wests Tigers... as it was then?

We currently have a situation where a very poor example of a human being commonly known as 'back door Benny' and his band of faceless men have a burning desire to take control of Wests Tigers.
As admittedly a truly great player for Balmain Tigers, his never ending love for the Balmain Tigers is his sole reason for the need to control.......Wow!!!

He even tells us [it has nothing to do with the need to accumulate personal $$$] there is no profit to be made out of sporting clubs.......Wow!!!

What a truly unique person he is!!!

The fact he is from the Balmain side of our sporting partnership...do you consider if this goes ahead, this could be the actual giant wedge that breaks the Wests Tigers back?

A couple of sporting personalities with a lot more integrity than 'back door Benny' have suggested there is a need for a NRL team to be centered in Campbelltown, and have further suggested Wests Tigers should locate there and once again become known as Wests Magpies.
What's your opinion on this?

Firstly, I am not going to rehash rubbish from 18 months ago as I am not a person that holds a grudge, unlike others apparently.

I have made in clear that I do not want Benny Elias involved in anyway with the Wests Tigers, a structure where he is involved in our club puts us on a path to the clubs demise. I don't care what side of the merger he comes from he is shonky as. I also want something to change in this club, I don't think the current board structure is working and that is not because it is a Wests Ashfield controlled board, it is because our club continues to be a mess that is ran like an amateur club.

Now for some reason you consider me a Balmain fan, I am not a Balmain, I am a Wests Tigers fan. I will take issue with anyone that tries to destabalise the Wests Tigers and have told users on this forum in the last week to pull their heads in because they were pushing Balmain v Magpies agendas.

Now I will address your last paragraph which I find to be disgusting, you are agitating for the breakdown of the Wests Tigers so you can have your 'beloved' Wests Magpies back. I do not want the Wests Magpies to return, nor do I wish to see the Balmain Tigers to return, I am a Wests Tigers supporter and wouldn't have it any other way. It is just a shame that after 21 years there are still people who wish to see their failed clubs returned, I am happy with the current failed club I support.

 

[mike]

For the record I'm not really for or against Benny trying to buy up half of WT.

What I do find interesting is there's been a lot of commentary this year about what Tigers can do differently, given a whole host of coaches, managers, CEOs, staff, players have tried to lift the club to reasonably consistent success, and failed to do so.

It is generally agreed that one of the few consistencies throughout this period has been the board, notwithstanding the Wets 90% buyout of recent years putting it much more firmly in the Wests Ashfield court. We haven't really changed the Board much, aside from the Chairperson.

And a bloke comes along to suggest to buy a stake and shake things up a bit... and the forum reaction appears to be 99% negative. Here's your chance to shake things up folks, we can hardly do much worse on the NRL Ladder or our finals success record. If you are an advocate for shaking up the club structure and ownership, Benny is probably the only bloke who is going to make an offer this side of 2040 (pun intended). Take it or leave it, but if you leave it, you'll need to abandon your complaints about things Wests Ashfield might do in the future.

Hi jirskyr I like that you are looking deeper into it than most, even doing that it still doesn't change the fact that 99.9% of members and fans alike don't trust him. Phenomenal player that he was, it doesn't change the articles that we have read and the stories we have heard.
It also doesn't help he is trying to get involved when the club is well and truly on the rise. The club is going great financially, juniors are firing (2nd in Reggies and Flegg and 4th in the Harold Matts and Tarsha Gale) the $75mil COE is opening shortly, structure and value is being added to all levels of the club and he wants to buy a majority share for what is rumoured to be next years salary cap. During the Taylor and big four era I might have thought about it, but he wasn't there through the bad times, now there is light at the end of the tunnel and he wants in. Go to buggery Ben.

So it appears then, dislike for Benny over-rules desires for change at the top.

It's just interesting to me, because I would had said 50% or more folks would have been interested in a board change after the 2021 season to date. For example, if someone said Dennis Burgess or Simon Cook were stepping down next week, I'm predicting most everyone would quite enthusiastic about a shake-up, not actually having any idea if Dennis or Simon know their stuff, nor who the replacement may be.

But a suggestion of Ben Elias trying to buy a seat, those same folks - aka "everyone" - against it.

It is possible to want changes at board level but to still prefer the current set up to Benny's involvement.

Its kind of like the republican vote in the 99, a lot of people wanted a republic but weren't happy with the model put forward so voted no in the referendum.

I would like change at board level but wouldn't be happy with Benny's involvement so would prefer to keep the current model.

What happened to the ferocious tiger from about 18 months ago when I first joined our forum, that roared with anger when you mistakenly jumped to the conclusion that I was attempting to put a giant wedge between your beloved Balmain Tigers and my beloved Wests Magpies?

What happened to that ferocious tiger that roared with anger and was prepared to die... for the Wests Tigers, as the club was then, due to his life long and never ending love and passion for the Wests Tigers... as it was then?

We currently have a situation where a very poor example of a human being commonly known as 'back door Benny' and his band of faceless men have a burning desire to take control of Wests Tigers.
As admittedly a truly great player for Balmain Tigers, his never ending love for the Balmain Tigers is his sole reason for the need to control.......Wow!!!

He even tells us [it has nothing to do with the need to accumulate personal $$$] there is no profit to be made out of sporting clubs.......Wow!!!

What a truly unique person he is!!!

The fact he is from the Balmain side of our sporting partnership...do you consider if this goes ahead, this could be the actual giant wedge that breaks the Wests Tigers back?

A couple of sporting personalities with a lot more integrity than 'back door Benny' have suggested there is a need for a NRL team to be centered in Campbelltown, and have further suggested Wests Tigers should locate there and once again become known as Wests Magpies.
What's your opinion on this?

No just no. Campbelltown has been tried and failed for the Wests Magpies. Tried again and failed for the Wests Tigers. There is no need for a third time to know the result.

If Elias gets his hands on the Wests Tigers there won’t be the Wests Tigers. It will be the Gosford Tigers, the Brisbane Tigers or the WA Tigers.

The NRL determines who has the licenses and the NRL won’t have the Western Suburbs Magpies back.

 

[Demps]

How much would 50% of the club would be worth ?

1 PIE a Can of Coke and a chiko roll.. based on performance...ALL ROUND..

Sounds about right 🙂

The only reason I ask is, I heard on the radio a shareholder in the Broncos wants to sell his 20% share for 10 Million, so we would be no where near that I would assume.

It's relative to the worth of the business..I mean it's coming with a State of the Art COE...anyone with development money looking to invest around...provide jobs etc..


The COE is not an asset and doesnt contribute to the value of the company. We are tenants.

Ever heard of a selling point or good will...


You cant sell something you dont own so its not a selling point. Goodwill is forecast sales and the CoE doesnt increase sales.

Its a good thing, Im glad its coming but contributes zero to a balance sheet. Just a fact.

Have you met Benny Elias..you can sell a dream..


Only if you have a buyer..

Not Sell the asset...sell the use of facilities

How much rent will the barber have to pay ?

Free rent. As long as the guys look good playing footy, who cares about winning.

Each week the worst player should get their head shaved

That'd upset a few of the pretty boys.