LIVE GAME Round 18 v Roosters live game discussion

Live Game Discussion
I copped a bit of flack on here post game as I was critical of AD. Based on his effort during the game my assessmant that as a half be makes a great prop was probably a bit harsh. But now that the emotion has calmed post the win I thought it is probably time to back up the statement with the reasoning.

There is a recurring theme among premiership-winning teams over the past two decades, it’s the strength and stability of their spine. While teams need powerful forward packs and dynamic outside backs, it is the spine that controls how effectively those assets are used.

My assessmant of AD's performance was his contribution as a half and what we need going forward to be a top 4 club remembering that AD is playing for a contracted positon and my comments were specifically related to his performance as the dominat half. Let's look at what we need going forward:

the dominant half (halfback or five-eighth) brings several critical attributes to an top four NRL team that go well beyond their basic position description. Here is what we need to be looking for:

Game Management

Control of tempo
  • Dictates when to speed up or slow down play. AD provided good tempo when we started the game be he failed to control the game in the later stages when our young guys were starting to get flustered.
  • Adjusts strategy based on game state. Failed to take advantage of the opportuntiy to close out the game with a fielg goal to seal it. Fortunatley we received a penalty that prevented us from being run down.
Organising the team
  • He is not a great organiser - he is a doer and tried to lead from the front as opposed to using the assets at his disposal.
  • His lack of organisation late in the game almost resulted in us being run down. He needed to take control and slow the game when the Roosters were trying to generate momentum. He is not on his Apt Malone there - Luai hasn't got this down pat yet either.
Set completion discipline
  • Ensures a structured kick at the end of each set to build pressure. I raised his deep kicking game as one of the issues. While he was generally OK too many sets eneded with poor quality kicks into average field positions. It is fine to kick to Toupou or to Tedesco - but too often the receiver was not pressured. We need to be better than that if we are going to be top 4. Again - it is an area we needs to be improved by Luai and Fianu as well.

Vision and Playmaking

Eyes-up footy
  • Reading defensive weaknesses in real-time. This is not a strength of his, AD tries to use his strength as hsi asset - this works well for him as a centre but his edge provided little strike. Sukkar only had 4 runs in the entire game.
Creating attacking opportunities
  • Double pump, cut-out balls, inside passes, decoys, and variations to break defensive lines. He demonstrated little of this capability as a half. His try assist was created by the work done inside by Latu.
Combination with outside backs
  • Sets up centres and wingers for clean line breaks or finishes. He did create tempo in the firt half with his strong running game but when the momentum shifted he lacked the polish to make the difference. He was serviceable for sure - but he will not take us, or any team, to the promised land.

Calm Under Pressure

Composure in clutch moments
  • Nails field goals, ice-cold under scoreboard pressure. I don't think I need to elaborate here.
Leadership confidence
  • Keeps team focused when momentum swings against them. AD definitely has confidence and I expect that the junior players could see that in him - especially early in the game. I have no doubt that he has leadership qualities and this past weekend he did not have any lapses. He is ususally good for a couple per game though.

Defensive Organisation

Edge defence leadership
  • Communicates effectively with edge back rowers and centres to maintain line integrity. this is an areas that he has greatly improved and I thought he did a pretty good job on the weekend.
Strong tackling technique
  • While not their main role, halves hold their edge defensively to avoid being targeted. Latu led the way with this - AD's tackling technique has improved but he is still vulnerable. He was not exploited but his inside pressure efforts were nothing in comparison to his halves partner. This is a significant weakness in his game.

Leadership and Communication

On-field general
  • Commands respect and ensures everyone knows their role in each set. I thought he did OK here - he took the line on and led by example. /our attack was not clunky and his direction was good enough to get us aroudn the park.
Motivational driver
  • Lifts team morale through example and voice, especially during adversity. Another tick in the box for AD. He tried to lead from the front; however, in my eyes he needed to direct a little more when the momentum shifted. Not a big criticism - more the expereince that a top 4 team needs.

Strategic Adaptability

Reading opposition tactics
  • Adjusts structures mid-game based on momentum. He failed to slow the game when the Roosters gained momentum. This is something we have failed to do in generals so not just a shot at him. This si where a 40/20 or a kick for touch on the last breaks the oppsositons rhythm. Kicking it too deep with not contest and allowing the opposition to run 10m to the line is playing into their hands.
Adapting the game plan
  • Recognises when to change the game plan. This is an extension of the point above. A top 4 half should be able to adapt the game plan to control the tempo. While a lot of it is out of the teams hands with 6 agains etc you could see the Roosters coming home strong and we did not adapt. In fact we were confused when we got near the red zone. We failed to finish a couple of sets appropriately whcih almost cost us the game. This was my biggest criticism of his performance as the dominant half.
So, my comment was not that AD played poorly, but that as a half he doesn't have the required skills. I stand by that.

He is also not a game changing centre so unless he is prepared to take KoE money to be a backup player I don't see where he fits into the Wests Tigers going forward.

He is not a Top 4 level player and like Twal and Seyfarth - good clubmen they may be - they aren't getting us into a premiership window except as solid backups.
 
No mention at all of Tedesco pushing the ref over anywhere. How can it be that two players get suspensions and then Tedesco doesn't get a mention. Where is the consistency? Was his an accident but the others deliberate?
Two things I learnt in Sundays game
Turdesco is really dropped his standards as a reasonable person, talk about serial complainer!!!
What was that 6 to go when turdesco fell on the floor on halfway, tigers jump on him. Every game of the week that’s called a serender tackle, but instead 6 to go. Plus they didn’t even hold him down to long. Totss as l crap
 
Two things I learnt in Sundays game
Turdesco is really dropped his standards as a reasonable person, talk about serial complainer!!!
What was that 6 to go when turdesco fell on the floor on halfway, tigers jump on him. Every game of the week that’s called a serender tackle, but instead 6 to go. Plus they didn’t even hold him down to long. Totss as l crap
That particular occasion was my beef as well. The ref, although generally fair, appeared to try to orchestrate a nail-biting finish and once again this swayed towards the favorite side. Unfortunately, it appears to be the norm in the Nrl.
 
No action today from judiciary on Teddy re referee collision, one rule for some, and one rule for others ( Mason). If I were Benji I’d follow that one up !
The worst one was the ref asking Tedesco if he was sure he wanted to forego the kick. Just ridiculous. Do they ask the captain if they are sure if they want to challenge? Never
 
That ref gave us 3 soft high shot penalties. That won the game for us. Don't forget!
Roosters got a few softies as well.

I sat with a Roosters mate at the game, the issue for them was the same as the issue for us - when we gave away soft penalties / 6-again we both struggled to hold the opposition out.

When it's that kind of game you have to reduce your errors because the defence is not resolute. Tigers handling was pretty good, Roosters made a few very costly drops - overall error count was 12-7 in favour of Tigers. Penalty count was 6-4 in favour of Tigers. Ruck infringements 4-2 in favour of Roosters. And given that resulted in Roosters playing catch-up footy, then yes the errors within kicking range will be punished.
 
Doueihi was very impressive in his front foot play today. It was so refreshing for this tigers team the way he received the pass at the line and had his team with him. It was a little bit the quality of the play the ball and the strength of the forwards in creating it but it was also just doueihi playing sharp. I've felt for so long we're just too slow, too sideways, too flat footed. Doueihi was really good with that and had his team with him. Luai and Latu seem to try to play that way but they often seem on their own, no one going with them. It was noticeable how well doueihi brought the team with him. It's how we need our halves to play, even if doueihi isn't the one doing it.

I understand the misgivings with doueihi, he seems to double think his plays, like his kick direct to teddy today when he had time and space to make a better kick or take a different option and seemed to get caught up between those options. Similarly his dart to the try line where he knocks on, not quite sharp enough to get there, not sure whether to hold the ball or stretch out. He has a really good kicking game, probably our best, yet he kept kicking it to Tupou who kept setting up strong sets in the second half with dominant runs through our tiring forwards, he had to go the other way.

But he does a lot right. He was a terrible defender last year, unplayable, where this year he is one of our best. He was really good in his play off of and for Latu in that game and his effort is high. I think he can be a half in the NRL. There are a number of teams where he'd be a decent upgrade. I don't think that is here. He probably deserves a chance at an extended period in the halves elsewhere. It's interesting his evolution from a hard running no passing ball hog who couldn't tackle a few years ago to a creative organising player now.
Doueihi has the Halatau issue: that I believe he's clearly a FG-quality player, but he's not the first choice in any one position. So you do want to find a spot for him, but if you are genuine about playing finals footy you also want superior options in every position that he can play.

Very much jack of all / master none.
 
The worst one was the ref asking Tedesco if he was sure he wanted to forego the kick. Just ridiculous. Do they ask the captain if they are sure if they want to challenge? Never
Well actually they do ask about the challenge a lot, in terms of things like "if you don't agree you can challenge" or "are you wanting to challenge, is that what you are saying".

But I agree with you in this specific instance, he clarified the rules to Tedesco, which should not be the ref's purview. And Vossy called it out on commentary. The ref should not be clarifying the implications of a captain's decision.
 
Not a lot of chat about post-game that I can see, but I was VERY interested to see how many players saying that they wanted to win for the coach.

Fainu brothers all said it on Fox, then Twal said it several times in the press conference.

And when Benji criticised the coverage, saying that "last week we are criticised for not keeping our juniors, this week you are lauding our recruitment decisions, it only seems to take a W or a L for the story to change". Then goes on to say about TDS "well he didn't want to be here, we want players who want to be here".

Early days yet but it really does seem to be players buying into the culture being set by Benji. And media reports seem to suggest that some players are more tight with Benji than others, suggesting a sort of clique, but actually I think it could be very important if most of the players buy into the coach's vision and play for the coach and the club. Galvin clearly doesn't, he plays for himself, and that's part of the issue we had, and that Dogs are now having.
 
Doueihi has the Halatau issue: that I believe he's clearly a FG-quality player, but he's not the first choice in any one position. So you do want to find a spot for him, but if you are genuine about playing finals footy you also want superior options in every position that he can play.

Very much jack of all / master none.
Nothing wrong with that. What you don't want is a master of jack shit.
 
Sorry if this has been answered on the forum but why was no action taken against Teddy for contact with ref
 

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Not a lot of chat about post-game that I can see, but I was VERY interested to see how many players saying that they wanted to win for the coach.

Fainu brothers all said it on Fox, then Twal said it several times in the press conference.

And when Benji criticised the coverage, saying that "last week we are criticised for not keeping our juniors, this week you are lauding our recruitment decisions, it only seems to take a W or a L for the story to change". Then goes on to say about TDS "well he didn't want to be here, we want players who want to be here".

Early days yet but it really does seem to be players buying into the culture being set by Benji. And media reports seem to suggest that some players are more tight with Benji than others, suggesting a sort of clique, but actually I think it could be very important if most of the players buy into the coach's vision and play for the coach and the club. Galvin clearly doesn't, he plays for himself, and that's part of the issue we had, and that Dogs are now having.
Our win loss record is a bit deceptive isn’t it, we’ve either won or been kicking hard in the final furlong in most games this year.
 
Well actually they do ask about the challenge a lot, in terms of things like "if you don't agree you can challenge" or "are you wanting to challenge, is that what you are saying".

But I agree with you in this specific instance, he clarified the rules to Tedesco, which should not be the ref's purview. And Vossy called it out on commentary. The ref should not be clarifying the implications of a captain's decision.
They ask if they want to challenge. They don't look at the replay, realise it is going to be a lost challenge and ask..."are you suuuurrreee? I just neeeed to confirm you reaaaalllly want to challenge"

That is essentially what the ref did. He knew the game would be over and he made a point to say are you suuuurrre. Ridiculous.
 
Well actually they do ask about the challenge a lot, in terms of things like "if you don't agree you can challenge" or "are you wanting to challenge, is that what you are saying".

But I agree with you in this specific instance, he clarified the rules to Tedesco, which should not be the ref's purview. And Vossy called it out on commentary. The ref should not be clarifying the implications of a captain's decision.
But - they shouldn't and it should never be accepted as anything but a corruption of the integrity of what is a completely black and white process!

There is the 10 second rule for challenges - and it's routinely being abused in favour of the big "glamour" teams.

As a common practice - it inherently favours teams with high profile captains.

The NRL has no interest in demonstrable impariality anymore - and it's a slippery slope from here.
 
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