Sack Marshall
- Thread starter Bird is the Word
- Start date
crazycat
Well-known member
You have a point, but we know that Morris "can" coach a team like the Sharks to the finals.
What we don't know is what the team is like behind the scenes...
We seem to have no wressling/tackling expert. We also seem to have Benji who is trying to be a "cool" coach and setting a work ethic that is just piss poor.
Morris quit Souths when Dimitriou did that with 2 senior players. Benji seems to be doing it with the entire team.... Unsure if Morris is being quiet because the WT is the last job lifeline OR if Morris agrees with the Benji chaos.
crazycat
Well-known member
What,
One playbook. Tough up front, little to no focus on wing/center defensive structures.
Madge would have done better then Sheens and Benji. But not that much better. I guess we would be coming 14th.
twentyforty
Well-known member
Not really defending Sheens but his position as head of football, which has a strong correlation to us having a leadership void and being on the bottom of the ladder. It's disappointing to see the board's members behave in such a way.
twentyforty
Well-known member
I think Madge’s critics underestimate the value he brings. I was surprised to learn that he had just the one selector for SoO. A very highly skilled data analyst Scott Woodward. Teams he works with have an incredible defensive record. Previously worked with Storm, NZ Kiwis, and now at Bulldogs. Not surprising Gould would headhunt him from Storm.
The guy has an unbelievably high level of accuracy in predicting outcomes of onfield strategies and game plans.
We never got to see what Maguire could have accomplished here.
innsaneink
Well-known member
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crazycat
Well-known member
Didn’t Woodward work here at some point too?
The Chad
Well-known member
When the club has been in rebuild mode since Sheen's first sacking but we constantly change the coach before they can fully put their rebuild into place- it's hard to blame the coach.
Sheens had time to build a squad, a development system & a second generation, nearly a 3rd generation of squad players.
Potter, Taylor, Cleary, Maguire & now Benji have had less than enough time to remove pre-existing commitments to other coaches players then build their own vision before being moved on.
As a club (society really, but that's a different conversation) we are simply not patient enough to allow for change. Every coach has been moved on carrying deadwood that the previous coach lumbered them with & we blame that current coach for not fixing what they were left with.
Benji is in a lucky position, IF HE had much say in the Sheens recruitment of players prior to taking over. At least he is in a position to bring through these juniors & build his own squad, instead of trying to move on Mbye, Packer etc eating up his salary cap.
Richo moving on Bateman, Papali'i etc is giving Benji more opportunity again to actually put his imprint on the team.
If you think I'm wrong, Robinson, Bellamy, Cleary, Bennett, Stuart, Brad Arthur...all have been part of longer tenures, through good & bad results, and had opportunity to build the squad in their vision. Other than the ridiculous decision to move Brad Arthur on after he lost all his star players- these coaches are 'safe'. And results follow them. Even when they have down years- they are safe. The longer they are there, the more success tends to follow them.
Conversely, clubs like the Titans, Tigers, Warriors, Dragons, Knights & Bulldogs have had less stable coaching security over the last 10 years, and the results are comparable for each.
Sheens had time to build a squad, a development system & a second generation, nearly a 3rd generation of squad players.
Potter, Taylor, Cleary, Maguire & now Benji have had less than enough time to remove pre-existing commitments to other coaches players then build their own vision before being moved on.
As a club (society really, but that's a different conversation) we are simply not patient enough to allow for change. Every coach has been moved on carrying deadwood that the previous coach lumbered them with & we blame that current coach for not fixing what they were left with.
Benji is in a lucky position, IF HE had much say in the Sheens recruitment of players prior to taking over. At least he is in a position to bring through these juniors & build his own squad, instead of trying to move on Mbye, Packer etc eating up his salary cap.
Richo moving on Bateman, Papali'i etc is giving Benji more opportunity again to actually put his imprint on the team.
If you think I'm wrong, Robinson, Bellamy, Cleary, Bennett, Stuart, Brad Arthur...all have been part of longer tenures, through good & bad results, and had opportunity to build the squad in their vision. Other than the ridiculous decision to move Brad Arthur on after he lost all his star players- these coaches are 'safe'. And results follow them. Even when they have down years- they are safe. The longer they are there, the more success tends to follow them.
Conversely, clubs like the Titans, Tigers, Warriors, Dragons, Knights & Bulldogs have had less stable coaching security over the last 10 years, and the results are comparable for each.
crazycat
Well-known member
The NRL ladder disagrees with you.
If i am hiring a coach
1. Sam Burgess
2. Josh Hannay
3. Dean Young
4.Ben Hornby
As for the above, I would go all in on Brad Arthur.
Look Burgess + Morris may offer something, but Burgess used his huge size to get through. If I am looking at Forwards to coach I would look to people who really batted above their size. JWH or someone who offered something unique like Luke Lewis.
I wouldn't touch Josh Hannay.
Dean Young and Ben Hornby both know the Dragons system and both would be going back there the instant they showed form here. Yet they are not bad choices. Hornby played at a national level and gets team structure and game play. Of all you name, Hornby would be the top on my list.
I just don't see our current team fitting the Dragons structure of old. Hornby would either have to train our players to fit that style or coach to a totally different style while building players.
Brad Arthur would get the team into shape. Train us into a gritty team with a solid playbook. Of all coaches on the market he is by far the best choice IMHO.
twentyforty
Well-known member
Yes, another sacking by us, doesn’t look good on his resume so left it off.😜
jirskyr
Well-known member
Yes for several years around the Madge period.
jirskyr
Well-known member
I'm not a Madge hater but he'd done his dash by the end.
He had 3.5 seasons and each season they got worse:
2019 finished 9th with 45.83% wins
2020 11th 35% wins
2021 13th 33.33% wins
2022 15th with 25% wins (when he was dumped Round 12)
You could not get a more consistent decline year-on-year if you tried, dropping 2 places on the table and several % win points.
Obviously since Madge left it's no better, but you cannot fault the club for deciding a change was necessary given the trajectory they were on. Madge had obviously worn thin, and though he has a decent track record as a coach overall, we probably did need new leadership.
twentyforty
Well-known member
100% Chad! We don’t allow time for any plans to be bedded down and driven. The window of opportunity then closes and we start again.
Some Tigers fans seem to be happy about this and I simply wonder what medication they could be on?
crazycat
Well-known member
Yet we are the exception here?
We had Sheens for over a decade... did not do much after 2005 bar one year when the Juniors were good.
Then we swapped Potter/Taylor/Cleary/etc. Yes huge turn around and we did better then, then now.
WE then stuck with Madge for 4 years. We did the right thing by him and really backed him up.
Parra punt Arthur after making the finals, and maybe rightly so... But they punt a far more successful coach.
The failure of the last board was backing Sheenius of Sheens + Marshall. It was an awful plan. They had good coaches available, Flanagan, etc but knocked on stupidity.
twentyforty
Well-known member
A change wasn't necessarily the best option imo.
Maguire had just got on top of the problems with the cap in very difficult circumstances. He was also facing pressure from the board and CEO. Despite this, he succeeded in signing new players who would not have the opportunity to play under his coaching.
In seasons 2021 and 2022 Maguire coached his last 36 games for 11 wins, 30.5% wins.
We've had 46 games since losing Maguire for only 9 wins, 19.5% wins.
Conveniently, this trajectory gets ignored when justifying yet another unnecessary sacking?
