Same sex marriage debate...

[Kul]

Has anyone actually voted yet? Mine is yet to arrived.

However the ABS said that it is important not to post pictures of your full survey form, particularly the barcode, as this is unique to you.

 

[innsaneink]

Is it compulsory?
Penalties for non compliance?
Do you have to register to receive this… Or do we all get this?

 

[GNR4LIFE]

I can understand you not mentioning the Bible as it is very embarrassing, for example, not letting a witch to live, homosexuality is an abomination. So the Bible can form the background of people's thinking even if they don't quote it. The Bible is like the devil whispering evil things in your ear.

Your getting off topic with your bigotted rantings … it was only a matter of time before you couldn't contain yourself any longer.

As you should know, being the Biblical expert you are, the Holy Bible is the literature that forms the cornerstone of Western Civilization, the most free and compassionate of civilisations to ever exist in all of humanity. So you're more than a little off in your analysis.

Its funny you mention evil, do you believe that evil exists? It seems you do, because you have mentioned it in your response.

I ask because good, evil and morality itself cannot exist in naturalist/atheist philosophy. Nearly all intellectual atheists admit this ... yet i can bet my last dollar that you cannot explain evil without putting God firmly in the paradigm.

Probably a good idea not to start intellectual fights that you have no chance in hell of winning.

The Bible was used to it's utmost to keep civilisation brutal and stupid. It was used to justify slavery, to justify killing witches, to impede science, to corrupt philosophy, to hoodwink the ignorant, to scorn homosexuality, to prevent women from obtaining equality etc. etc..

I was obviously using the evil word in an everyday sense and you are only creating a false philosophical position in an attempt to obfuscate.

You cannot mention intellectualism and the Bible in the same breath - there are the ultimate contradiction.

Umm… basically no to everything you have just written.

It was used to abolish Slavery, it was used as the very basis for scientific reasoning, and by the way the word "witch" doesn't even appear in the original Hebrew Bible.

You have literally stuck out on every point. As The Don would say ... Sad !

Now back to my question, which you unsuccessfully tried to skirt around. Do you believe that such thing as 'Evil' exists?

The irony of you complaining about someone not answering your question when you still won't answer mine. Even after i tried to the bigger person and try and clean the slate.

 

[mike]

For so many years, the homosexual community kicked and screamed about wanting their differences recognised and accepted. They wanted society to respect them for being different.
Now, they are kicking and screaming to be recognised the same as mainstream society.
They demand tolerance from us, yet do not tolerate differing opinions to theirs.
They demand acceptance, yet do not accept any outcome other than their wishes.
**They demand the same rights in marriage as man and woman, yet defy the only precursor to marriage . . . being a man and a woman**. Let them have some sort of union legally recognised, but don't let them change the fabric of marriage as it has been for hundreds of years.
The most important reason for a NO vote is " where will this end ?". If they get their way, how long will it be before some militant lesbian with a crewcut demands to be married in a Catholic / Anglican / Muslim church, because it is legal ? And if the priest/minister of mufti refuses to marry them, she will go to some government funded lesbian rights help centre and take the church to some government funded tribunal to force them to marry them, or to force the church to change it's 2000 year old theological viewpoints to suit the current climate of political correctness and pandering to the minorities.
So for me it's a clear NO. Let them live together, let them have some sort of union recognised. But if they live their life in total contrast to the atypical man/woman union . . . . why demand that the meaning of traditional marriage is altered when they don't want to live as man/woman ?
So they want us to tolerate and accept them as they are . . . and not to try and change them. But their demands are that they don't tolerate marriage as a man/woman thing. They don't accept that marriage . . . by it's traditional definition doesn't include homosexuals . . . and so they want to change that.

This has only been the issue for a decade when Howard changed the Marriage Act to explicitly say that.

Yes, and he didn't need a plebiscite to do it either. Which shows you what a joke this whole process we are now going through is.

 

[Geo]

Is it compulsory?
Penalties for non compliance?
Do you have to register to receive this… Or do we all get this?

All should get it..not compulsory..no penalties if you don't return it..

 

[Tiger_Watto]

I have many friends who are in same sex relationships _and I have asked them what it means to them. The responses are very interesting depending where they sit on the political dias, but the one thing that was consistent was the answer to what it means if the 'No' campaign gets up.

FWIW, They simply want to have the same legal rights as everyday people. They dont want to upset God, they dont want to flaunt there choices in my face, they just want to be able to go about their daily lives together without fear of some legal argument taking away from them.

I know its something I have no right to stop/hinder regardless of what I feel about the process in how this has played out. For me this is about giving my brothers and sisters who live in a SSR the same rights I enjoy walking down the street everyday.

Its a Big YES for me!_

 

[colmcd]

Has anyone actually voted yet? Mine is yet to arrived.

However the ABS said that it is important not to post pictures of your full survey form, particularly the barcode, as this is unique to you.

Mine has not arrived as well.

Anyone else Angry about the ABS making rules on the fly?
No messages? Hold on normal elections messages can be accepted and don't invalidate the vote.
"the barcode is unique to me" OK, so what if I see a few barcodes and print out what I think correct barcode sequences would be and send in 100,000 votes for "maybe".
Why, merely a year after having a Census is this question being asked NOW!

yes I will be voting but this process sucks.

 

[Spartan117]

This is not a debate.

This is not about love, equality, freedom or discrimination.

 

[colmcd]

The alliance between the left and islam has always puzzled me …

It shouldn't. Despite many left leaning people considering themselves libertarian, the far left is deeply totalitarian. They rely on blind followers who believe the far left's think-of-the-children/poor people environment/gays/etc shtick to enact their ideology.

They think of Muslims as useful idiots, but they underestimate them at their peril. They've been doing Orwellianism for centuries before it ever occurred to the far left.

I love how people categorize the Far Left….. From many I have met in the "far left", they are the most diverse group of people. Some Anarchists (aka Libertarians) believe in Zero Government. Some Communists believe in Max government, Some Minimal, others believe in Marajuwana, others I slowly back away. The Far left are incredibly diverse and different and different from each other.

The far right on the otherhand I often find suffer from Groupthink. Many say that they are Libertarian, then after stating an almost identical theology to Anarchism don't admit that they are Anarchists.

Many on the left I know have followed their ideas to their conclusions. Many on the right too, but we see some nice Hypocricy from many, recently from Ted Cruz. Ted opposed Bailouts of Hurricane victims, under any circumstances. Guess who asks for bailouts for Hurricane victims of Texas?

I will be interested to see if Tony Abbott votes with the result of the Plebiscite as he promised to do. (he was asked what's the point in a Marriage plebiscite when many against SSM said that they would vote against regardless).

 

[Tim Sheens]

Has anyone actually voted yet? Mine is yet to arrived.

However the ABS said that it is important not to post pictures of your full survey form, particularly the barcode, as this is unique to you.

Got it. Two seperate pages including the cover/advice one. Crossed the yes box and placed in the provided return envelope to post this arvo.

Don't agree with the whole process, especially the ABS having to run it, but encourage all that agree SSM should not be illegal to not be complacent as the no voters will definitely be returning their forms.

 

[Abraham]

The irony of you complaining about someone not answering your question when you still won't answer mine. Even after i tried to the bigger person and try and clean the slate.

Not for the first time, you called me a religious bigot for no reason. At least this time you didn't do it via PM, you did it for everyone to see.

But yeah, your the "bigger person".

 

[hobbo]

The irony of you complaining about someone not answering your question when you still won't answer mine. Even after i tried to the bigger person and try and clean the slate.

Not for the first time, you called me a religious bigot for no reason. At least this time you didn't do it via PM, you did it for everyone to see.

But yeah, your the "bigger person".

Ouch :laughing:

 

[GNR4LIFE]

The irony of you complaining about someone not answering your question when you still won't answer mine. Even after i tried to the bigger person and try and clean the slate.

Not for the first time, you called me a religious bigot for no reason. At least this time you didn't do it via PM, you did it for everyone to see.

But yeah, your the "bigger person".

I haven't used that word towards you in any context. You though have used it at least 6 times. You've used it so much its lost its meaning.

 

[Tim Sheens]

The irony of you complaining about someone not answering your question when you still won't answer mine. Even after i tried to the bigger person and try and clean the slate.

Not for the first time, you called me a religious bigot for no reason. At least this time you didn't do it via PM, you did it for everyone to see.

But yeah, your the "bigger person".

I haven't used that word towards you in any context. You though have used it at least 6 times. You've used it so much its lost its meaning.

The plot thickens.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

The irony of you complaining about someone not answering your question when you still won't answer mine. Even after i tried to the bigger person and try and clean the slate.

Not for the first time, you called me a religious bigot for no reason. At least this time you didn't do it via PM, you did it for everyone to see.

But yeah, your the "bigger person".

I haven't used that word towards you in any context. You though have used it at least 6 times. You've used it so much its lost its meaning.

The plot thickens.

He's bringing up stuff from over 12 months ago. As for this thread, im not sure why he can't put petty differences aside for the sake of discussion. Oh well, guess we move on.

 

[colmcd]

But as we have been arguing, the Holden fans will oppress our freedom of speech and wheel if we ever let them drive Holdens! If people own a Holden, we will never rid ourselves of the Marxist agenda being forced on our racetracks, cars and branding. You only have to change a few letters and Commodore becomes Communist!

*said by a person who owns a Honda, which once had Ford, Mazda and Toyota parts in it! IMHO if you can't die in it, it's not a fun car.

I drive a Camry, I take it that's the car equivalent of being a Libertarian in that no one likes you and thinks you're a danger to both yourself and everyone else around you?

No Way. The Camry is safe, reliable and 0 flare for a car. It is the voting equivalent of Bill Shorten I think.

Abbott I think is the VW range… No breaks. Maybe a VW crossed with a Ford Falcon..

Turnbull is definitely the Lexus of Australian Politics.. .looks great but not so good under the Bonnet.

Still waiting for the Holden Kingswood of Australian Politics to come roaring in... We probably haven't seen one of those since Hawke.

On Libertarianism... I have zero understanding why Libertarians are not Georgists.
It's basically Libertarianism without Inheritances and the tax is applied to Land instead of income.
I.e. no free ride from mum and dad. You make your own way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism

Haha I was referring more to Camry drivers not the car itself. I have an Atara SX and it's a great car.

Ha, Yea they are great cars actually. Drive a Honda Jazz and love it but used to drive a Camry… Sadly brought a lemon but once fixed it was good.

I think my friends old MX7 might be the Libertarian car. Rotary engine upgraded to 1.4 turbo. Nothing inspected/checked for safety. It flew. It would be a good car to die in.

 

[Tigerdave]

Yeah got mine and the missus letters today, already sent back.

 

[Abraham]

_The Federal Government and Labor have agreed on new temporary laws to safeguard against hate speech during the same-sex marriage postal survey.\
\
The bill, to be introduced to Parliament today, will restrict content published by the Yes and No campaigns and will apply until mid-November.\
\
It includes measures to prevent vilification, intimidation, or threats to cause harm on the basis of the sexual orientation, gender identity, intersex status or the religious convictions of someone during the survey period.\
\
Anyone found to have breached those provisions could be hit with a $12,000 fine and a court injunction.\
\
- ABC_

We are officially a Nanny State.

 

[JD Tiger]

_The Federal Government and Labor have agreed on new temporary laws to safeguard against hate speech during the same-sex marriage postal survey.\
\
The bill, to be introduced to Parliament today, will restrict content published by the Yes and No campaigns and will apply until mid-November.\
\
It includes measures to prevent vilification, intimidation, or threats to cause harm on the basis of the sexual orientation, gender identity, intersex status or the religious convictions of someone during the survey period.\
\
Anyone found to have breached those provisions could be hit with a $12,000 fine and a court injunction.\
\
- ABC_

We are officially a Nanny State.

I don't see what's wrong with that. Trying to reel in both sides is a good thing. Some of the disgusting stuff being said, from both sides, has been abhorrent.

Amazes me that when they want to, they can pass stuff almost instantly, but other stuff takes them seemingly forever.

 

[Abraham]

I don't see what's wrong with that. Trying to reel in both sides is a good thing. Some of the disgusting stuff being said, from both sides, has been abhorrent.

Amazes me that when they want to, they can pass stuff almost instantly, but other stuff takes them seemingly forever.

So who decides what is 'hate speech' ?

I agree that incitement to violence should not be protected, but that should be the absolute extent of any speech laws.

I'm not saying this because i want people to be vile, simply that if you start to say you can't say 'X' or you can't say 'Y', then you start a really steep slippery slide where you rely on a single person who decides which people should go for jail for the terrible crime of talking.

Usually their decisions are reflections of their own political or ideological biases.

So if this is a good idea, which god-like moral authority do you think we should we appoint specifically to decide what people can or can't say before they are hauled before the courts and fined $12k?