Same sex marriage debate...

[Tim Sheens]

Guys, the thread will be locked if this keeps up. Is it the grog talking? Anyway the thread has probably exhausted every angle so…. but hold on it is still another 4 months for NRL

A hell of a long time until this circus of a survey comes to a close as well. It was obvious to the vast majority that unnecessary crap like this and public attacks were going to occur across the nation and just another reason to have already dealt with in the ONLY manner it can be, a vote in parliament.

Colleagues of the FEW that have FORCED this upon us have had legislation drawn up for months, ready to be debated and amended appropriately as it already should have been.

 

[Swordy]

At the end of the day, the other side of politics could have solved this 4 years ago when they were in power. They came out and reinforced their stance that is oppositie to what it is today, including openly gay senator Penny Wong.

Anyone who thinks this survey has anything to do with geuinely caring about same sex marriage is kidding themselves. Its about political point scoring from both sides, and a way to hide from the real issues in the country.

Unfotunately, much of the community has stupidly been sucked into the tornado of non issues and think its for real. Open your eyes, stop being trendy knobs and question your local politicians on real issues, whether your view is yes, no or otherwise on this issue.

 

[Harvey]

Guys, the thread will be locked if this keeps up. Is it the grog talking? Anyway the thread has probably exhausted every angle so…. but hold on it is still another 4 months for NRL

A hell of a long time until this circus of a survey comes to a close as well. It was obvious to the vast majority that unnecessary crap like this and public attacks were going to occur across the nation and just another reason to have already dealt with in the ONLY manner it can be, a vote in parliament.

Colleagues of the FEW that have FORCED this upon us have had legislation drawn up for months, ready to be debated and amended appropriately as it already should have been.

I think one party voted against the plebiscite because of the attacks those in same sex relationships and their supporters may face. Jeez they misread the electorate on that didn't they?

 

[greatodensraven]

This cost tax payers $120 mil.

 

[Milky]

First time I open this thread and I can not believe it has hit 40 pages….wow lol.

Do people actually care? For crying out loud it will be legalised whether it is today or tomorrow.

Get over it and move on.

You should know better Milky. If you're not interested don't click on the thread. Pretty simple mate.

Probably came across the wrong way, wasn't taking a hit at anyone

 

[Yossarian]

First time I open this thread and I can not believe it has hit 40 pages….wow lol.

Do people actually care? For crying out loud it will be legalised whether it is today or tomorrow.

Get over it and move on.

You should know better Milky. If you're not interested don't click on the thread. Pretty simple mate.

Probably came across the wrong way, wasn't taking a hit at anyone

Fair enough mate.

 

[Pawsandclaws]

At the end of the day, the other side of politics could have solved this 4 years ago when they were in power. They came out and reinforced their stance that is oppositie to what it is today, including openly gay senator Penny Wong.

Anyone who thinks this survey has anything to do with geuinely caring about same sex marriage is kidding themselves. Its about political point scoring from both sides, and a way to hide from the real issues in the country.

Unfotunately, much of the community has stupidly been sucked into the tornado of non issues and think its for real. Open your eyes, stop being trendy knobs and question your local politicians on real issues, whether your view is yes, no or otherwise on this issue.

What pissed me off the most was the call for additional funding for "help services" for those on the same sex side of the debate. Domestic violence, sexual assault and homelessness among our youth are three issue I can think of immediately which to me are a much higher priority.

Secondly, anyone who believes a "free vote" in terms of the Labor side of the debate is actually "free" is deluded. As you have stated Swordy, it is about politics.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

The guy has said it had nothing to do with being a Yes voter, he's just always hated him.

That's why he was wearing a SSM vote Yes badge. Purely coincidental, it was a crime of opportunity. :unamused:

Note the obscene haste Brandis came out to deny he is a SSM supporter.

Who cares whether or not he was a yes supporter? Even if he headbutted Abbott expressly because of this vote and no other reason (because of course Abbott has never given anyone reason to want to headbutt him, ever) then it's still just one DH breaking the law. It's like saying Islamic extremists speak on behalf of Muslims, or are representative of Muslims.

What this incident really shows is that people who break the law are dealt with accordingly. And very few people think what he did was acceptable.

Assaulting a former PM is reprehensible and demands a good dose of penal servitude. Assaulting a former PM who is in many ways the face of the No campaign during the survey over the definition of marriage highlights high level of intolerance and intimidation.

.
I agree, it is terrible that he head butted a former PM,
He should have done it when Abbot was still the current PM.
Then again he'd have needed to be Quicker, as he wasn't a Current PM for long :laughing:

 

[Spook]

Why do they refer to radicals lesbains, for example, as looney left? It is not a typical left-right issue at all unless the right wing are conceding that left wingers respect individual human rights more.

I think the "looney left" is a catch all phrase referring to intolerant SJW types that are unable to articulate their position, so rely on trying to shame their opponents with tags like bigot, homophobe, white supremacist, racist, climate denier, breeder, invader etc. They also have the M.O. of shanghaiing words like "discriminate". A short time ago it was a compliment. If someone was "discriminating" they had good taste by being selective, striving for the best and not accepting below par rubbish. (Now a sorely missed trait in many walks of Australian life). Similarly "bigot" merely meant to be intolerant or bigoted of another persons view, but since reworked to be just another form of the word "racist".

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Anyone else receive an unsolicited same sex marriage text today urging you to vote yes ?

So glad I voted NO … What a bunch of FLOGS !

Yeah I did. Didn't really like it but not going to take it out on other people who had nothing to do with it.

Yeah as did I. At least it was only a text message and not an unsolicited visit to my house that the Coalition for Marriage did to lecture me about why I need to answer no.

 

[TrueTiger]

Well guys I didn't expect this topic to go to 41 pages,every argument for and against has been exhausted..

Honestly, people should just form their own opinion and reasoning for whichever way they choose to vote..I don't think any less or anymore of people on either side..

Its your vote cast it how YOU choose,not just because of others opinions…
Thanks to all who sincerely contributed to this thread,as I said before there are many smart,intelligent and bright people on this forum and it is a great place to visit and be part of...

 

[Tim Sheens]

Guys, the thread will be locked if this keeps up. Is it the grog talking? Anyway the thread has probably exhausted every angle so…. but hold on it is still another 4 months for NRL

A hell of a long time until this circus of a survey comes to a close as well. It was obvious to the vast majority that unnecessary crap like this and public attacks were going to occur across the nation and just another reason to have already dealt with in the ONLY manner it can be, a vote in parliament.

Colleagues of the FEW that have FORCED this upon us have had legislation drawn up for months, ready to be debated and amended appropriately as it already should have been.

I think one party voted against the plebiscite because of the attacks those in same sex relationships and their supporters may face. Jeez they misread the electorate on that didn't they?

Have been away the past week and will return to oz at the end of the school holidays, so have only gone off this site and limited headline news from home. I expected it to play out pretty well as it has so far, with antagonists from both sides stirring things up and some minor violence here and there.

I don't believe sticks and stones type hurt is what they were trying to protect people from, rather the names part (words having a much greater effect than bumps and bruises) that can destroy the mentally fragile, particularly those still finding their way.

I really feel for the past generations of those sexually other than the norm (hate the term LGBlaaah) having grown up in a very unforgiving environment and it is well and truly time that none of the young now going through this struggle have pressure placed upon them and especially if they are trying to juggle religion as well.

If one young life of a transsexual teen can be saved by having gender neutral toilets or more varied sex education, then bring it on. As for SSM, if there is just one couple in their eighties that wants to be married, it should be passed for them alone having had to put up with the best part of a lifetime of general bigotry.

 

[jirskyr]

At the end of the day, the other side of politics could have solved this 4 years ago when they were in power. They came out and reinforced their stance that is oppositie to what it is today, including openly gay senator Penny Wong.

Anyone who thinks this survey has anything to do with geuinely caring about same sex marriage is kidding themselves. Its about political point scoring from both sides, and a way to hide from the real issues in the country.

Unfotunately, much of the community has stupidly been sucked into the tornado of non issues and think its for real. Open your eyes, stop being trendy knobs and question your local politicians on real issues, whether your view is yes, no or otherwise on this issue.

What pissed me off the most was the call for additional funding for "help services" for those on the same sex side of the debate. Domestic violence, sexual assault and homelessness among our youth are three issue I can think of immediately which to me are a much higher priority.

You are just being ignorant.

All people in need are entitled to maximum help from the govt, there is no "priority". But of all the groups needing help, only one of those groups have been drawn into public debate these past weeks.

Surely you can understand there are people affected by this debate who are not at peace with their situation, persons in the LGBTQI community who are seeing their issues debated in public, being told by a significant portion of society that they aren't entitled to the same rights as hetero couples.

Anxiety and depression are up to 30% higher in the LGBTQI community than in the general public. Suicide attempts are up to 32% higher. The LGBTQI community experiences much poorer mental health than the general public, and the causes are obvious - abuse, discrimination, rejection by family, struggle with religious upbringing, personal acceptance etc. As a minority group they share many of the same issues that other minorities struggle with.

I don't expect you have enough empathy to understand what these people are going through. But just imagine that if you have a major personal issue, and the whole country started debating your issue on a daily basis, and if it got rather nasty at times, and there was a group of people actively campaigning against you as a sufferer. Imagine then how you'd feel and why we might need some additional mental health support at this time.

 

[Pawsandclaws]

At the end of the day, the other side of politics could have solved this 4 years ago when they were in power. They came out and reinforced their stance that is oppositie to what it is today, including openly gay senator Penny Wong.

Anyone who thinks this survey has anything to do with geuinely caring about same sex marriage is kidding themselves. Its about political point scoring from both sides, and a way to hide from the real issues in the country.

Unfotunately, much of the community has stupidly been sucked into the tornado of non issues and think its for real. Open your eyes, stop being trendy knobs and question your local politicians on real issues, whether your view is yes, no or otherwise on this issue.

What pissed me off the most was the call for additional funding for "help services" for those on the same sex side of the debate. Domestic violence, sexual assault and homelessness among our youth are three issue I can think of immediately which to me are a much higher priority.

You are just being ignorant.

All people in need are entitled to maximum help from the govt, there is no "priority". But of all the groups needing help, only one of those groups have been drawn into public debate these past weeks.

Surely you can understand there are people affected by this debate who are not at peace with their situation, persons in the LGBTQI community who are seeing their issues debated in public, being told by a significant portion of society that they aren't entitled to the same rights as hetero couples.

Anxiety and depression are up to 30% higher in the LGBTQI community than in the general public. Suicide attempts are up to 32% higher. The LGBTQI community experiences much poorer mental health than the general public, and the causes are obvious - abuse, discrimination, rejection by family, struggle with religious upbringing, personal acceptance etc. As a minority group they share many of the same issues that other minorities struggle with.

I don't expect you have enough empathy to understand what these people are going through. But just imagine that if you have a major personal issue, and the whole country started debating your issue on a daily basis, and if it got rather nasty at times, and there was a group of people actively campaigning against you as a sufferer. Imagine then how you'd feel and why we might need some additional mental health support at this time.

Domestic violence, sexual assault and youth homelessness are issues impacting many members of the community, not just a minority group. My awareness of these issues and interest in them is hardly suggestive of someone lacking empathy (my moral compass is calibrated).

Anyway, please continue on as I'm sure you can fluff out five hundred line reply.

 

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

…................

Domestic violence, sexual assault and youth homelessness are issues impacting many members of the community, not just a minority group. My awareness of these issues and interest in them is hardly suggestive of someone lacking empathy (my moral compass is calibrated).

Anyway, please continue on as I'm sure you can fluff out five hundred line reply.

Paws, those issues mentioned of domestic violence, sexual assault and youth homelessness I feel sure would be much more common place amongst those of G&L community. I have never heard of a boy being driven out of family home and ostracised for being straight, the gay boys would also attract non domestic violence at a much higher rate than straights just for being whom they are. Only a few years back in Oxford Street, Sydney there was an outbreak of anti-gay violence if my memory is solid.

Overall, jirskyr has articulated the G & L position accurately. This is why there is the big big divide - people don't realise that their views and actions can be highly insensitive due either to ignorance or wilful spite.

 

[jirskyr]

At the end of the day, the other side of politics could have solved this 4 years ago when they were in power. They came out and reinforced their stance that is oppositie to what it is today, including openly gay senator Penny Wong.

Anyone who thinks this survey has anything to do with geuinely caring about same sex marriage is kidding themselves. Its about political point scoring from both sides, and a way to hide from the real issues in the country.

Unfotunately, much of the community has stupidly been sucked into the tornado of non issues and think its for real. Open your eyes, stop being trendy knobs and question your local politicians on real issues, whether your view is yes, no or otherwise on this issue.

What pissed me off the most was the call for additional funding for "help services" for those on the same sex side of the debate. Domestic violence, sexual assault and homelessness among our youth are three issue I can think of immediately which to me are a much higher priority.

You are just being ignorant.

All people in need are entitled to maximum help from the govt, there is no "priority". But of all the groups needing help, only one of those groups have been drawn into public debate these past weeks.

Surely you can understand there are people affected by this debate who are not at peace with their situation, persons in the LGBTQI community who are seeing their issues debated in public, being told by a significant portion of society that they aren't entitled to the same rights as hetero couples.

Anxiety and depression are up to 30% higher in the LGBTQI community than in the general public. Suicide attempts are up to 32% higher. The LGBTQI community experiences much poorer mental health than the general public, and the causes are obvious - abuse, discrimination, rejection by family, struggle with religious upbringing, personal acceptance etc. As a minority group they share many of the same issues that other minorities struggle with.

I don't expect you have enough empathy to understand what these people are going through. But just imagine that if you have a major personal issue, and the whole country started debating your issue on a daily basis, and if it got rather nasty at times, and there was a group of people actively campaigning against you as a sufferer. Imagine then how you'd feel and why we might need some additional mental health support at this time.

Domestic violence, sexual assault and youth homelessness are issues impacting many members of the community, not just a minority group. My awareness of these issues and interest in them is hardly suggestive of someone lacking empathy (my moral compass is calibrated).

Anyway, please continue on as I'm sure you can fluff out five hundred line reply.

What do you mean just a minority group? The LGBTQI community includes approx 11% of Australians, whether or not they actively engage with their community. In comparison, as of 2011 the ABS estimates 3% of Australians are Indigenous. Would you call indigenous Australians "just a minority group"?

In 2013 the ABS reported there were 33,700 same-sex couples in Australia (and this is self-reported, therefore tends to be under-reported).

So treat all groups in need very seriously, but don't underestimate the plight of this specific LGBTQI group at this specific time. Just because an issue affects "more types of Australians" doesn't legitimise it over any other type of issues. Domestic violence, for example, is estimated to have affected approx 1/4 women, still a minority of people though. Doesn't make it any more or less serious even if the rates of DV change depending on culture, religion, income or any other way of stratifying people.

It's also saddening that if you do indeed have such a strong interest and awareness of domestic violence, sexual assault and youth homeless, you can't easily extend that charity to mental health in the LGBTQI community.

Also as a last concern that you might not know what you are talking about, you compare empathy (understanding of feelings) with morality (perception of right and wrong). You can think someone is wrong (immoral) but still have empathy towards them, for example drug abusers. I don't know what you mean about calibration of your moral compass, that's entirely subjective. Where in fact does your compass stand wrt homosexuals?

Your commentary thus far indicates to me that you don't have empathy towards the LGBTQI community, despite whatever other social injustices you rail against.

That's 250 words by the way.

 

[jirskyr]

…................

Domestic violence, sexual assault and youth homelessness are issues impacting many members of the community, not just a minority group. My awareness of these issues and interest in them is hardly suggestive of someone lacking empathy (my moral compass is calibrated).

Anyway, please continue on as I'm sure you can fluff out five hundred line reply.

Paws, those issues mentioned of domestic violence, sexual assault and youth homelessness I feel sure would be much more common place amongst those of G&L community. I have never heard of a boy being driven out of family home and ostracised for being straight, the gay boys would also attract non domestic violence at a much higher rate than straights just for being whom they are. Only a few years back in Oxford Street, Sydney there was an outbreak of anti-gay violence if my memory is solid.

Overall, jirskyr has articulated the G & L position accurately. This is why there is the big big divide - people don't realise that their views and actions can be highly insensitive due either to ignorance or wilful spite.

Absolutely.

And then there are the insults specific to the LGBTQI community, not just the ones that also affect hetero persons.

For example one study reported that 61% of non-hetero couples reported verbal abuse and 18% reported physical abuse because of their lifestyle. One study in QLD reported almost 50% of QLD transgender have reported being physically assaulted.

Have a look here paws, for starters, and open your mind a bit:
https://www.beyondblue.org.au/who-does-it-affect/lesbian-gay-bi-trans-and-intersex-lgbti-people/factors-affecting-lgbti-people

 

[Guest]

People have really made a mountain out of a mole hill regarding this same-sex marriage debate. If you support the notion vote yes, if you don't then vote no. If it means nothing to you either way then don't vote at all. #howhardisit

 

[tsjonathan]

People have really made a mountain out of a mole hill regarding this same-sex marriage debate. If you support the notion vote yes, if you don't then vote no. If it means nothing to you either way then don't vote at all. #howhardisit

i don't see how this has over 40 pages. If you agree with same sex marriage vote yes, if you are conservative and don't think its right then vote no.

I believe love is love and people have a right to get married if they love and care for each other.

 

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

People have really made a mountain out of a mole hill regarding this same-sex marriage debate. If you support the notion vote yes, if you don't then vote no. If it means nothing to you either way then don't vote at all. #howhardisit

Though it cost $122,000,000 it is not vote worthy - only a survey. I may not respond just as not to give survey credence that may encourage repeats in the future. Not that my one non-response would make a difference. The survey is like the pre-season comp in the old days.