Save Our Sides Protest Rally - SUN 05FEB11

[Goose]

I`m pretty sure he got paid to play for Harold Matthews for Parramatta, the Wests Magpies don`t have the funds to pay players at that age.

are you sure??? Parramatta dont generally pay for kids in HM's

Cabbramatta seem to offer incentives for kids to play, but Parra aren't reknowned for forking out cash for kids.

I vaguely remember watching Hayne play for Cabramatta as a youngster, but had no clue he was originally from elsewhere…

 

[Goose]

I think their last proposal application was rejected by Camden Council, not sure if they have submitted a revised application????
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The Panthers have been sending players out to Bringelly Schools, I know that for a fact.
Not sure if they have gone futher South than that as yet?

But I also know schools in Group 6 struggle to get any of the Wests Tigers big NRL players to be sent out.
At best most are lucky to get a few U20's players and a footy card for the kids trouble.

Yet AFL is using Israel as a draw card, and all kids that leave AFL's auskick trial with an AFL ball.
Yet Rugby League seems to think the area is loyal and don't have to do anything of real substance to secure it.

The fact is we wont lose the current generation of supporters, we will lose the next generation if we don't act now.

The AFL schools program puts both NRL and rugby union to shame…..one of the reasons I want AFL to succeed in the western suburbs of sydney, is cause they are prepared to put in, unfortunately the codes I love take it for granted.

as a lover of sport, I want to see kids playing any sport, and the way things are going a generation from now we will see AFL on equal footing in sydney, and Ill be ok with that, cause they will have earnt it by subsidising kids sport, the NRL refuses to do the same, and complains about AFl invading their heartland

 

[Yossarian]

I think their last proposal application was rejected by Camden Council, not sure if they have submitted a revised application????
\
\
The Panthers have been sending players out to Bringelly Schools, I know that for a fact.
Not sure if they have gone futher South than that as yet?

But I also know schools in Group 6 struggle to get any of the Wests Tigers big NRL players to be sent out.
At best most are lucky to get a few U20's players and a footy card for the kids trouble.

Yet AFL is using Israel as a draw card, and all kids that leave AFL's auskick trial with an AFL ball.
Yet Rugby League seems to think the area is loyal and don't have to do anything of real substance to secure it.

The fact is we wont lose the current generation of supporters, we will lose the next generation if we don't act now.

The AFL schools program puts both NRL and rugby union to shame…..one of the reasons I want AFL to succeed in the western suburbs of sydney, is cause they are prepared to put in, unfortunately the codes I love take it for granted.

as a lover of sport, I want to see kids playing any sport, and the way things are going a generation from now we will see AFL on equal footing in sydney, and Ill be ok with that, cause they will have earnt it by subsidising kids sport, the NRL refuses to do the same, and complains about AFl invading their heartland

I think you're being a bit unreasonable. It's easy to throw money around when you have as much as the AFL do. The AFL have also put a lot on the line in Western Sydney because they are desperate to succeed out there. I'm sure if you live in Tassie you probably get stuff all. Central Coast you rarely see them…

Anyway don't believe the hype of the AFL. Their claims are over-blown and the numbers of participants compared to the money they've invested is not that impressive. One of the great myths of Australian sport is the alleged popularity of the AFL. Apart from actual attendances they go pretty poorly in other areas. There TV ratings are fairly ordinary especially on Pay-TV, they have no representative schedule of any value (despite years and years of trying to fabricate something) and despite these constant claims about how well they're doing overseas, we're yet to see any results apart from a few Irish blokes.

 

[galahs]

The rally got a mention the inside back page on the Sun Herald.

 

[system]

The Panthers have been sending players out to Bringelly Schools, I know that for a fact.

Bringelly has a Primary School and that is it.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

The Panthers have been sending players out to Bringelly Schools, I know that for a fact.

Bringelly has a Primary School and that is it.

…And is often considered a part of the greater Penriff area along with Badgery's Creek.

 

[innsaneink]

Just on this point….

**_- Teams need to be able to train and play on grounds of their own choosing_**
.....in my experience most junior grounds are owned by councils and to a lesser degree, schools and clubs.

Its not a right for clubs to play there, its a privilege.
Litter, vandalism, graffitti, noise, alcohol, parking, local residents are all issues clubs need to heed

Is Wests JRL somehow overiding councils/schools or whoever owns the particuar grounds certain clubs arent allowed to play/train at....I know these few clubs have decided to go to another district...whats the story on this issue?

Anyone?

 

[Goose]

I think their last proposal application was rejected by Camden Council, not sure if they have submitted a revised application????
\
\
The Panthers have been sending players out to Bringelly Schools, I know that for a fact.
Not sure if they have gone futher South than that as yet?

But I also know schools in Group 6 struggle to get any of the Wests Tigers big NRL players to be sent out.
At best most are lucky to get a few U20's players and a footy card for the kids trouble.

Yet AFL is using Israel as a draw card, and all kids that leave AFL's auskick trial with an AFL ball.
Yet Rugby League seems to think the area is loyal and don't have to do anything of real substance to secure it.

The fact is we wont lose the current generation of supporters, we will lose the next generation if we don't act now.

The AFL schools program puts both NRL and rugby union to shame…..one of the reasons I want AFL to succeed in the western suburbs of sydney, is cause they are prepared to put in, unfortunately the codes I love take it for granted.

as a lover of sport, I want to see kids playing any sport, and the way things are going a generation from now we will see AFL on equal footing in sydney, and Ill be ok with that, cause they will have earnt it by subsidising kids sport, the NRL refuses to do the same, and complains about AFl invading their heartland

I think you're being a bit unreasonable. It's easy to throw money around when you have as much as the AFL do. The AFL have also put a lot on the line in Western Sydney because they are desperate to succeed out there. I'm sure if you live in Tassie you probably get stuff all. Central Coast you rarely see them…

Anyway don't believe the hype of the AFL. Their claims are over-blown and the numbers of participants compared to the money they've invested is not that impressive. One of the great myths of Australian sport is the alleged popularity of the AFL. Apart from actual attendances they go pretty poorly in other areas. There TV ratings are fairly ordinary especially on Pay-TV, they have no representative schedule of any value (despite years and years of trying to fabricate something) and despite these constant claims about how well they're doing overseas, we're yet to see any results apart from a few Irish blokes.

The AFL is very strong, this is not a myth. The games themselves dont rate as highly on TV as league this is true. However they have about dozen shows that rate well on fox, the crowds are large (clearly), they have a number of hugely popular gala events (brownlow, All Australian etc) and they have higher sponsorship and corporate arrangements, they are strong.

We should try and learn from what they do well.

There schools program is great, AusKick is a national program and the AFL teams see schools on a regular basis.

Rugby league focuses on the elite juniors only, it would be so easy for each NRL CLub to send 2 blokes from their full time squad to a school for a couple of hours, if they each do it once a month, you'll cover 50 schools a month, very easilly done.

The rugby league just expects kids to keep playing league, cause that is what they do, and focus their attention on elite players, has frustrated me for years. If they keep neglecting they will face a problem like Cricket ahs, when numbers are dwindling

 

[Gary_Bakerloo]

Saw the Herald insert and felt there had to be something on this forum. Sure enough there are 13 pages since Christmas. Interesting read.

Couple of things:

1\. Wests Campbelltown is not building a country club in Narellan. The last I heard was they are looking for member approval (via voting) to purchase the Rugby League Golf Club on Camden Valley Way. This golf club was co-owned by about 6 other rugby league clubs in the Sydney area (including Wests, St. George, Canterbury etc). Wests Campbelltown is buying them all out. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but Wests Campbelltown also owns Camden Lakeside. The purchase allows more poker machines.

2\. I noted earlier comments about Wests Campbelltown being the rogue element in the Wests Group. Firstly, I thought both Ashfield and Campbelltown were voting in alignment with the Balmain half of the merger leaving the Wests Football Club as an outlier. In the end, each party to the board votes in the best interests of its members. Therefore, Wests Ashfield and Campbelltown both vote for what they believe is the best interests for THEIR members…....they would only vote with the Wests Football Club when by chance the interests align. There is no doubt the brand of the Magpie is on the decline, not sure about Ashfield, but I doubt Campbelltown wants the Magpie as its brand. It wants to align to Wests Tigers because it is now a well known and successful brand. A stronger brand means more profits which means more rewards for their members. It is all reasonably logical.

I also noted earlier that someone questioned there must be method in the madness from the Wests Group, or more specifically, the two Wests Leagues clubs. Apart from some items noted above, an interesting question is what happens if/when Wests Tigers makes a financial loss? The two partners must cover the losses. Ashfield and Campbelltown (if required) will have no issue making its share of the losses, but what of Balmain? The Balmain Leagues clubs are not profitable with no prospects for growth given the issues surrounding the Victoria Road site. An additional liability would not be appreciated. Does Ashfield and Campbelltown have an alternative, almost sadistic motive given the issues with Balmain Leagues Club?

 

[innsaneink]

Rugby league focuses on the elite juniors only, it would be so easy for each NRL CLub to send 2 blokes from their full time squad to a school for a couple of hours, if they each do it once a month, you'll cover 50 schools a month, very easilly done.

Rubbish!
You havent heard of Kids to Kangaroos?
Been going for years, Im sure it still operates
http://www.sportingpulse.com/assoc_page.cgi?c=0-2147-0-0-0&sID=17177&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=16251091

What about WTs Balmain Blitz,
http://www.weststigers.com.au/?s=article-display&id=33536
…each year Wests send players around to hundreds of local schools....im sure it happens in Macarthur too....as do other clubs.

 

[Kul]

The rally got a mention the inside back page on the Sun Herald.

For the right reasons though?

I havn't been following this thread or the magpies forum in detail, but from what I gather from a quick glance the main beef from magpies fans is Wests Tigers apparently favouring Balmain and the expense of Wests… this being a separate issue from the "state of the game" in the south west, hence "Save our side".
Correct me if I'm wrong there.

If so, then Danny completely glossed over the main point of the rally

 

[Guest]

Rugby league focuses on the elite juniors only, it would be so easy for each NRL CLub to send 2 blokes from their full time squad to a school for a couple of hours, if they each do it once a month, you'll cover 50 schools a month, very easilly done.

Rubbish!
You havent heard of Kids to Kangaroos?
Been going for years, Im sure it still operates
http://www.sportingpulse.com/assoc_page.cgi?c=0-2147-0-0-0&sID=17177&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=16251091

What about WTs Balmain Blitz,
http://www.weststigers.com.au/?s=article-display&id=33536
…each year Wests send players around to hundreds of local schools....im sure it happens in Macarthur too....as do other clubs.

They're also sending players out to Campbelltown and surrounding areas later this month I believe.

 

[Yossarian]

The AFL is very strong, this is not a myth. The games themselves dont rate as highly on TV as league this is true. However they have about dozen shows that rate well on fox, the crowds are large (clearly), they have a number of hugely popular gala events (brownlow, All Australian etc) and they have higher sponsorship and corporate arrangements, they are strong.

We should try and learn from what they do well.

There schools program is great, AusKick is a national program and the AFL teams see schools on a regular basis.

Rugby league focuses on the elite juniors only, it would be so easy for each NRL CLub to send 2 blokes from their full time squad to a school for a couple of hours, if they each do it once a month, you'll cover 50 schools a month, very easilly done.

The rugby league just expects kids to keep playing league, cause that is what they do, and focus their attention on elite players, has frustrated me for years. If they keep neglecting they will face a problem like Cricket ahs, when numbers are dwindling

I'm not saying they aren't strong, I'm just suggesting they aren't as strong as they make out. Non-game shows really don't matter to Foxtel - the ratings are never going to be that good. It's just cheap fodder for their new AFL network. The Brownlow is MUCH better than the Dally M - I won't dispute that.

Anyway my point is the so called march of the AFL into western Sydney is more hype than reality. Having just had a quick look it looks like they had a 9 team u/16 comp than stretched from Hawkesbury through Blacktown down to Camden. Near as I can tell they had 3 teams in the Macarthur/Group 6 region (one in Macarthur two in Camden) and the Macarthur team lost 7-244 in one game. There was no U/15 team so presumably the u/16 comp takes in 15s and 16s.

In contrast there would be more rep players in the same region playing league. Wests alone ran a 10 team u/16s comp and 16 teams over 2 divisions in u/15s. Group 6 ran 3 divisions with 21 teams in u/16s and no u/15s from what i could see. So all up that's 47 teams vs 3 over both age groups. Excuse me if those stats are a bit off but that was my take from looking at the numbers.

Should we be complacent? Of course not. Should we keep trying to expand our junior coverage? Absolutely. I see the Wests Tigers are doing a training session for kids at Bowral on 30 Jan.

 

[Goose]

Dont get me wrong, League infinitely stronger than AFL in the Western Suburbs of sydney.

The western suburbs can easily support an AFL team as well as league, IMO the more sporting options kids have the better for me, kids will eventually find a sport they love.

I dont think it has to be us against them.

As for the junior stuff, Im not saying it is non exsistent in league, Id like it to be better. I have not had anything to do with junior league in Wests or Balmain, my dealings have been in he Penrith, Parra and Manly districts, found them frustrating negligent with non elite development. That said all are a million times better than NSWRU.

I have been witnessing the AFL stuff in my area (concord) and Penrith and have been extremely impressed. I see it as a good thing not a threat.

 

[gallagher]

There is no doubt the brand of the Magpie is on the decline, not sure about Ashfield, but I doubt Campbelltown wants the Magpie as its brand. It wants to align to Wests Tigers because it is now a well known and successful brand. A stronger brand means more profits which means more rewards for their members. It is all reasonably logical.

You know, as a former magpie supporter, i wouldn't really care if the magpie brand disappeared. Most old magpies would no doubt disagree with me but I think its time we moved on for the better of the west tigers club.
I'll never forget who I used to support and where the club come from but our brand is very strong now and we're better off focusing on that brand and being a SYDNEY team opposed to being a sydney suburban team.

Time for Balmain and the magpies to disappear.

The NRL is finally going to be one entity with one focus, its time for us to do that aswell.

 

[Blue_Devil]

I think a lot of people are missing the plot of what is going on, putting it short and sharp, Campbelltown has no Bundy Cup side, if Wests Magpies go we have no Premier League side, we have the saddest A Grade Competition in NSW and the best senior clubs forced to play out side the area, we have an NRL and N20's team play 4 games at Campbelltown so if you want to watch a quality senior game of League for the other 20 weeks of the season, you can't see anything in Campbelltown, we need Group 6 and a Premier League team in Campbelltown every Sunday afternoon, it's not that hard to work out

 

[wtfl1981]

By trying to keep the wests vs balmain thing out of this thread…. The real issue is the MESS of rugby league in campbelltown area (from grass roots to the 4 nrl games). Due to the constitution of the WT (in place to make WT happen otherwise there would be no WT) the situation (although worked ok for most of last decade) has become complex. Too many conflicting and interested parties to keep everyone happy. Campbelltown area (not saying magpies) is still suppose to be 50% of WT.. The powers to be need to do what is best for the game to fix the messy structure and conflict. The inner west/city is well served with its 50% lets bring the south west up to the same level.... WT fans of ALL persuasions should endorse positive solutions wherever possible.
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[Yossarian]

Those kind of competitions are extremely over-rated in terms of its benefits to the local leagues. The participation of CC teams in the Bundy Cup (particularly Erina and Woy Woy) almost killed those teams and had a negative impact on the A grade comp. Even with The Entrance in now, it has more negatives than positives - all it does is weaken their A Grade team and more people are interested in The Entrance vs Ourimbah than The Entrance vs Belrose.

You really think that many people want to watch Bundy Cup? The Magpies diehards will but as it exists now that comp is more of an ego thing for A grade teams with big leagues clubs.

Personally I have no problem with Wests or any teams in that area entering State Cup or Bundy Cup teams but I question whether the pay-offs are as great as is being presented.

 

[Yossarian]

By trying to keep the wests vs balmain thing out of this thread…. The real issue is the MESS of rugby league in campbelltown area (from grass roots to the 4 nrl games). Due to the constitution of the WT (in place to make WT happen otherwise there would be no WT) the situation (although worked ok for most of last decade) has become complex. Too many conflicting and interested parties to keep everyone happy. Campbelltown area (not saying magpies) is still suppose to be 50% of WT.. The powers to be need to do what is best for the game to fix the messy structure and conflict. The inner west/city is well served with its 50% lets bring the south west up to the same level.... WT fans of ALL persuasions should endorse positive solutions wherever possible.
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If having a Bundy Cup team makes a difference then go for it. Don't care.
Don't even care if the WT State League team plays at Campbelltown.
Don't care if Wests enters their own State cup team made up of A Grade players from Wests/Group 6

Personally I don't think any of these things will help the WT though. Don't think it will harm them either.

 

[galahs]

It doesn't matter if people don't want to watch it and they prefer to watch NRL only.

You still have to provide different levels of Rugby League to develop rugby league players.

If your a runner, you have club, district, regional, states and nationals
same for swimmers
lawn bowlers have club, district, zone, state, nationals
etc etc

rugby league in Campbelltown needs a well run A grade comp, a well run state side (probably a bundy cup side too!) and it needs a bigger NRL presence.